(Thread IKs:
fatherboxx)
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RockWhisperer posted:By account of Rob Lee, their collective combat experience and assault unit capabilities are exceptional versus the rest of the military (still a polished turd to me), so their loss might be too much to bare. I also theorize there might be a manpower shortage component too, but that is just conjecture. I assume the experienced moniker only attaches to the ~8,000 members of their professional core, not the tens of thousands of prisoners they absorbed. Still, that seems like a non-trivial number of seasoned troops to lose.
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Jun 27, 2023 14:19
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Szmitten posted:This is what I don't understand about mercs. Why wouldn't everyone just outbid their opponents? At the beginning sure, but mercenaries that change sides after having already signed would tend to not get a lot of future business.
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Jun 27, 2023 14:27
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What could ever go wrong with the US just wiring large sums of money to a Russian PMC?
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Jun 27, 2023 14:30
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Fidelitious posted:At the beginning sure, but mercenaries that change sides after having already signed would tend to not get a lot of future business. Could I introduce you to my friend, Mr. 30 Years War? I think he has some important information for you.
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Jun 27, 2023 14:30
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Xiahou Dun posted:Could I introduce you to my friend, Mr. 30 Years War? I think he has some important information for you. That's why you pay your mercs on time, or else they start to "live off land"... Also it's different when merc outfit is tied closely to specific country or country bloc.
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Jun 27, 2023 14:36
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Szmitten posted:This is what I don't understand about mercs. Why wouldn't everyone just outbid their opponents? Wagner are not mercenaries, they are an off the books project of Russian military intelligence
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Jun 27, 2023 14:42
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Wagner are not mercenaries in the highest bidder sense. The image that they're separate from the Russian state is just plausible deniability for their clandestine actions in Africa, where they very much work as an arm of the Russian government. They're filled with Russian nationalists and are usually (prisoners aside) highly motivated volunteers. You can't bribe them to just switch sides to Ukraine.
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Jun 27, 2023 14:42
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Morrow posted:Wagner are not mercenaries in the highest bidder sense. The image that they're separate from the Russian state is just plausible deniability for their clandestine actions in Africa, where they very much work as an arm of the Russian government. They're filled with Russian nationalists and are usually (prisoners aside) highly motivated volunteers. You can't bribe them to just switch sides to Ukraine. I prefer the term "implausible deniability" for those cases. Though, on the plus side, it means they got chewed up by US air power that one time in Syria....
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Jun 27, 2023 14:48
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alex314 posted:That's why you pay your mercs on time, or else they start to "live off land"... It was (nominally) a religious civil war. Dudes were switching all day e'rry day with their immortal souls. But, as stated, not relevant since Wagner aren't actually mercenaries.
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Jun 27, 2023 14:49
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fatherboxx posted:https://twitter.com/666_mancer/status/1673670232466923521?t=Nv9PVW6EL4vne0eq-27kGQ&s=19 Why is he still beating around the bush? What’s gonna happen to Prigozhin?
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Jun 27, 2023 14:52
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Xiahou Dun posted:It was (nominally) a religious civil war. Dudes were switching all day e'rry day with their immortal souls. I was surprised that regular mercs in 30yw didn't care much for their personal beliefs to match the side they were fighting for. Also didn't look like their colonels cared as well. Which weirdly ties with Wagner, as according to various sources Wagner didn't push any political agenda onto their troops. Despite their military head being nazi fetishist. Just show up, do your work, get paid.
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Jun 27, 2023 15:07
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:Russia has a lot of tanks. They’ll probably get T-55s or something. Lol, the Rosgvardiya is above the MoD on the picking order, not below. They will appropriate a few hundred of the best tanks the military has, and the military will make do with T-62:s.
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Jun 27, 2023 15:12
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alex314 posted:I was surprised that regular mercs in 30yw didn't care much for their personal beliefs to match the side they were fighting for. Also didn't look like their colonels cared as well. You don't really need to push an agenda when it's self-selecting. Desperate convicts aside, anti-war, anti-nationalist people aren't exactly the types to be like "hell yeah I'll go warcrime in CAR to own the gay west"
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Jun 27, 2023 15:27
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alex314 posted:Which weirdly ties with Wagner, as according to various sources Wagner didn't push any political agenda onto their troops. Despite their military head being nazi fetishist. Just show up, do your work, get paid. I bet that Zhenya's cupboard is just full of World's Best Boss mugs!
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Jun 27, 2023 15:29
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:You don't really need to push an agenda when it's self-selecting. Desperate convicts aside, anti-war, anti-nationalist people aren't exactly the types to be like "hell yeah I'll go warcrime in CAR to own the gay west" Convicts previously in jail for hate-crime murders aside, anyway.
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Jun 27, 2023 15:56
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https://twitter.com/KofmanMichael/status/1673708497249116163?cxt=HHwWhoCxwdbAmrouAAAA Worthwhile possibility
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Jun 27, 2023 16:09
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Russia drops charges against mercenary leader and others involved in brief rebellion, Looking forward to somebody explaining the 8D chess Machiavellian masterstroke that's at work with incoherently going back and forth on whether or not charges are going to be pressed against a guy you called a treasonous enemy of the state a couple of days ago.
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Jun 27, 2023 16:31
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FT: Russia and its propagandists strive for normality after Wagner uprisingquote:Simonyan — once one of Prigozhin’s biggest cheerleaders in the Russian elite — later explained she had been on a cruise down the Volga river filming a culture documentary about centuries-old Orthodox churches, blissfully unaware the state was on the verge of collapse. The propaganda machine really melted down when things got hot.
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Jun 27, 2023 16:55
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khwarezm posted:Russia drops charges against mercenary leader and others involved in brief rebellion, turning a big dial taht says "Fascism" on it and constantly looking back at the audience for approval like a contestant on the price is right
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Jun 27, 2023 16:59
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If anyone comes across an overhead video of Bradleys and Ukrainian soldiers in a field, you probably don’t want to watch it. It’s an incredible graphic video of Ukrainian forces getting offloaded into a mine field. The full video is about 11 minutes long but the most graphic clips are being posted around on social media by Mr. Apollo fucked around with this message at 17:04 on Jun 27, 2023 |
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Jun 27, 2023 17:02
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Rinkles posted:Why is he still beating around the bush? What’s gonna happen to Prigozhin? Integration into the Ministry of Defenstration
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Jun 27, 2023 17:11
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Tayter Swift posted:Integration into the Ministry of Defenstration It's a window of opportunity!
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Jun 27, 2023 17:15
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Well that's one way to frame it
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Jun 27, 2023 17:38
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Mr. Apollo posted:If anyone comes across an overhead video of Bradleys and Ukrainian soldiers in a field, you probably don’t want to watch it. It’s an incredible graphic video of Ukrainian forces getting offloaded into a mine field. Fair warning and I would advise everyone per rules of the thread to not discuss it further.
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Jun 27, 2023 17:44
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fatherboxx posted:https://twitter.com/666_mancer/status/1673670232466923521?t=Nv9PVW6EL4vne0eq-27kGQ&s=19 ‘Defund the PMC’ was not a square I had on my Russia bingo card. Crazy times.
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Jun 27, 2023 17:45
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More Russian atrocities for the pile: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-66031337 quote:Russian forces summarily executed 77 civilians they had arbitrarily detained during Moscow's invasion of Ukraine, a UN report says.
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Jun 27, 2023 18:09
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khwarezm posted:Russia drops charges against mercenary leader and others involved in brief rebellion, to be fair, being a treasonous enemy of the state is pretty common these days, i forget if i posted in this/all/none threads, but my wife is a treasonous foreign agent and I'm facilitator to it now. they actually bothered to find our address and snail mail it. We are to report to Barnaul and face the judgement of glorious leader Viktor Tomenko at one point i was lmaoing at the idea that they would actually bother doing this, now i'm still lmaoing, and if the situation heightens i swear to
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Jun 27, 2023 18:39
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Yeah, ever since they introduced that law on 'foreign agents', a large number of Russians have been declared such, particularly artists and the like speaking out against the war. If I lived abroad and didn't have to deal with the actual consequences, I'd take it as a badge of pride. Good on your wife.
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Jun 27, 2023 18:48
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:to be fair, being a treasonous enemy of the state is pretty common these days, i forget if i posted in this/all/none threads, but my wife is a treasonous foreign agent and I'm facilitator to it now. they actually bothered to find our address and snail mail it. We are to report to Barnaul and face the judgement of glorious leader Viktor Tomenko Have you considered writing them letters telling you will be coming on a certain date and would like it if they helped in booking a hotel, then follow with a letter apologizing that the flight was double booked and you will have to find a new space in your schedule for the trip, then oh dear I'm kind of tight could you lend me a couple hundred bucks for the trip...
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Jun 27, 2023 18:50
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RockWhisperer posted:FT: Russia and its propagandists strive for normality after Wagner uprising
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Jun 27, 2023 18:53
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FlamingLiberal posted:The problem is that these propagandists are never going to be prepared to respond to a strange situation like this one, and on top of that there has not been a clear message from Moscow on what the line is supposed to be It also helps with straddling the line when you're not sure who's going to come out on top.
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Jun 27, 2023 18:57
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It’s just very strange to see Putin and Russian leadership just so uncertain about how to react to this whole situation
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Jun 27, 2023 19:23
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FlamingLiberal posted:It’s just very strange to see Putin and Russian leadership just so uncertain about how to react to this whole situation Putin is like a cat that did a stupid jump and fell on his nose and now he's pretending nothing special happened, don't laugh.
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Jun 27, 2023 19:28
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Putin really doesn't respond well to things he's not in control of. You get the idea that he's a decisive authority because usually he's the one stirring poo poo, but whenever he's in his own crisis mode he will usually procrastinate as much as possible. The early days of the war, really the whole war, are a Great example of that: the initial strategy didn't work and it took months to pivot away from the idea of a lightning assault on Kyiv. Even now he's really just procrastinating on the whole war when it's pretty clear that Russia will buckle before Ukraine does.
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Jun 27, 2023 20:00
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An interesting take, I would like other opinions on. Kris Quanten, Professor Military History, in Belgium mentioned something about a potential upside of the Wagner rebellion, mutiny, whatever it is or was. A second from opened from Belarus. It is explained a bit in this article (originally in Dutch but Google Translate does a decent job). What are your takes? https://www-vrt-be.translate.goog/vrtnws/nl/2023/06/27/wagner-in-wit-rusland/?_x_tr_sl=de&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=wapp
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Jun 27, 2023 20:12
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Kalenden posted:An interesting take, I would like other opinions on. It's stupid. If they wanted a front form Belarus, they could open a front from Belarus.
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Jun 27, 2023 20:13
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Kalenden posted:An interesting take, I would like other opinions on. They could have you know, just redeploy the Wagner troops who just left the front in Ukraine to Belarus, and open the new front without trying to occupy Moscow and doing a coup-lite while doing so. Belarus is already a participating member of this conflict, as they allowed Russia to attack Kyiv from their soil, and provided support and assistance to Russian troops operating from there. But they also are so pathetic that nobody really feels any need to fight them at the moment. Especially since their army pretty much told Luka earlier that they aren't going to mobilize, and unless he really wants a new hole for brain ventilation, he should leave it to that.
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Jun 27, 2023 20:31
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Kalenden posted:An interesting take, I would like other opinions on. Die Kris Quanten zit er telkens naast. Hij is zo'n "expert" die nog steeds maar niet kan geloven dat Rusland niet het grote machtige land is zoals hij al die jaren gedacht heeft, en dat Poetin niet de grote, sterke, sluwe leider is die hij dacht dat hij was. Elke keer als die vent weer iets uitkraamt, is het telkens weer "Rusland gaat nu toch zeker echt wel winnen hoor heus!". Vermoeiend is het. In Nederland hebben we ook zo'n iemand, Rob de Wijk. (Hoewel die vergelijking niet helemaal eerlijk is voor De Wijk, want die ziet nu ook in dat Rusland niet kan winnen, echter is hij telkens bang voor "escalatie".) e: tl;dr: This person is known for his "realist" (aka bullshit) takes on Russia and is one of those who still hasn't come to grips with the fact that Russia is bad at war and pretty much everything, actually. e2: sorry for dutchposting btw, I'm very tired and had a brainfart on what thread I was posting in. spankmeister fucked around with this message at 21:57 on Jun 27, 2023 |
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Jun 27, 2023 20:44
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Morrow posted:Putin really doesn't respond well to things he's not in control of. You get the idea that he's a decisive authority because usually he's the one stirring poo poo, but whenever he's in his own crisis mode he will usually procrastinate as much as possible. The early days of the war, really the whole war, are a Great example of that: the initial strategy didn't work and it took months to pivot away from the idea of a lightning assault on Kyiv. Even now he's really just procrastinating on the whole war when it's pretty clear that Russia will buckle before Ukraine does. While it’s true that Russia is not doing anything that could realistically lead to victory right now, the main strategy such as it is is to inflict enough misery in a stalemate that they outlast the resolve of the West to support Ukraine. That could lead to a frozen conflict allowing Russia to rebuild and have another go while holding onto what they grabbed already. However making GBS threads your own pants while falling down the stairs when 8K troops show up inside your borders doesn’t advance that plan very well.
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Jun 27, 2023 20:55
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Kalenden posted:An interesting take, I would like other opinions on. It's an extremely stupid take. Russia already launched an attack from Belarus, they could do it again without having to go through the whole mutiny thing. Anyone suggesting this as some kind of 5D chess move should be ignored.
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Jun 27, 2023 20:55
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