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BiggerBoat
Sep 26, 2007

Don't you tell me my business again.

predicto posted:

The most galling thing to me is how many modern Christians seem to be people of good will in their day to day lives in many ways, yet go into the polling place and pull the GOP lever in election after election. They help the poor, are ok with the gay people they know, don’t love guns, etc yet are unable to confront what the GOP has become or how antithetical it is to most of the actual teachings of Jesus Christ. I guess it is the abortion issue that keeps them there.

You know a lot of different self described Christians than I am exposed to. These people are as mean, spiteful and as closed minded as most. At least in my experience. It's a my way or the highway thing and they're automatically right because the bible they pretend to read says so.

Full disclosure: I live in NE Florida

Archonex posted:

To be serious about the question:

Because Fox News had/has an entire arm finding the most efficient way to sell and launder right wing propaganda to voters and that manufactured look appeals to older viewers and alt right types. Keep in mind that as they figured out what worked and didn't work they went from having actual actors playing the role of their interviewees way back when to the angry suited jackasses that are on now. In fact, the Five was allegedly designed around what they'd learned up to that point to sell a show as efficient at seeming fair and balanced while not actually being so.

They're basically primped and designed like a factory output from failed celebrities that never made it big or (In the case of Watters and Gutfield) failed comedians who were also willing to sell their decency for a massive paycheck and the fame (really infamy) they never would have gotten otherwise. The whole aesthetic of making them all so similar creates an artificial look overall however when you start to see some of them together. Especially if they open their mouths during separate recordings, too. That reveals how self referential a lot of their propaganda is, and how it's all one big loop meant to keep folks tuned in and angry.

Yes, it's sales and marketing basically, not news. I've touched on it before but the entire GOP brand is essentially advertising driven and they're depressingly rather good at it. They also have a knack for language control, for lack of a better term, where they effectively associate certain negative words and terms with politicians and democratic policies through sheer repetition. I guess "word association" would be a better way to put it. It's juvenile and inaccurate but it sinks in.

It's the largest reason of why a huge part of the country thinks that the modern Democratic Party are extreme left wing socialists when they're nothing of the sort.

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VorpalBunny
May 1, 2009

Killer Rabbit of Caerbannog

VorpalBunny posted:

A follow up to this, my Twitter feed returned to a relatively normal collection of random meme accounts and cute animal videos after a few more days of DeSantis stuff. My husband thinks it was an elaborate and expensive media tactic by the campaign, but I can't seem to find any other people this affected. Buying out someone's For You twitter feed for a week over a year before an election seems nuts, but the targeting was so specific and it made absolutely no sense. But, I'm glad to have my regularly crappy Twitter feed back!

One more update, now I have unsolicited porn in my For You and Suggestions feed. And not just vanilla porn, but bestiality. WHAT THE gently caress is going on with Twitter?!

I knew the story about the kitten posts, but you had to go search for that poo poo. This stuff just popped up between pictures of pretty wildflowers and people doing that odd Grimace shake trend.

Honestly, what a loving mindtrip this throwaway twitter account has been. Nonstop Desantis stuff, then a day of normal, and then BAM hosed-up porn. That new CEO is working out well.

Dr. Faustus
Feb 18, 2001

Grimey Drawer

VorpalBunny posted:

One more update, now I have unsolicited porn in my For You and Suggestions feed. And not just vanilla porn, but bestiality. WHAT THE gently caress is going on with Twitter?!

I knew the story about the kitten posts, but you had to go search for that poo poo. This stuff just popped up between pictures of pretty wildflowers and people doing that odd Grimace shake trend.

Honestly, what a loving mindtrip this throwaway twitter account has been. Nonstop Desantis stuff, then a day of normal, and then BAM hosed-up porn. That new CEO is working out well.
I have a fun gimmick account on Twitter that I have had to stop checking due to seeing three people killed in robberies gone wrong. I am not good with poo poo like that and I am bummed by how things have changed. Twitter was a safe place for me to do my silly gimmick and read about politics. Now I don't dare scroll it because poo poo is straight disturbing.

notwithoutmyanus
Mar 17, 2009

VorpalBunny posted:

One more update, now I have unsolicited porn in my For You and Suggestions feed. And not just vanilla porn, but bestiality. WHAT THE gently caress is going on with Twitter?!

I knew the story about the kitten posts, but you had to go search for that poo poo. This stuff just popped up between pictures of pretty wildflowers and people doing that odd Grimace shake trend.

Honestly, what a loving mindtrip this throwaway twitter account has been. Nonstop Desantis stuff, then a day of normal, and then BAM hosed-up porn. That new CEO is working out well.

are you completely sure they haven't tagged you as Trump on the throwaway?

je1 healthcare
Sep 29, 2015

Archonex posted:

The question I have is how we got to the point where this sort of edgy teenager crap is somehow mainstream for a sizable element of the elderly.

I mentioned it's mostly an act up above, but it's surprising there's that many people in the boomer generation that that still appeals too.

Old people being unbearable assholes isn't a new concept, a lot retired into poverty because no one could tolerate being with or supporting them. And many old people are nice as a matter of survival. Except now a growing number of millions have social media accounts to soapbox with, and we're exposed to the hot takes of people who's own children don't want to speak with them.

That, and they were straight-laced back when they were teenagers because they were afraid to defy their parents or lose ties with the community that would guarantee them job security. It was a matter or economic survival, but they always resented hippies and beatniks for cheating the system, running away from home at 17 and being unafraid of the possibility of poverty. And they continued to resent them when the media promoting them as the "cool" ones while they had to conform. As a result of consuming decades of TV and media that told them they were chumps for "conforming", they take to the internet to espouse the sort of anger they're too afraid to express in real life. Sort of like the young marginalized nerds that made up the internet 20 years ago.

It's kind of interesting, there's certain categories of people who are more likely to be antisocial, but only when they're insulated from economic consequences. So teenagers and retirees, but also working adults who command high salaries and can't get fired for being rude. And the people who are unfazed by the prospect of being poor.

I dunno I'm spitballing here.

skeleton warrior
Nov 12, 2016


Archonex posted:

The question I have is how we got to the point where this sort of edgy teenager crap is somehow mainstream for a sizable element of the elderly.

I mentioned it's mostly an act up above, but it's surprising there's that many people in the boomer generation that that still appeals too.

It's a bunch of different stuff.

It's the rise of the internet anonymous tough guy as a de facto way of interacting with the world, where being a piece of poo poo to everyone you don't like, and expecting everyone else to be a piece of poo poo to you so you need to knock them out first, has just become a standard way of dealing with people.

It's the destruction of social spaces outside of the internet, and the polarization that has resulted from that, where rather than communities of people that have different views and have to come to a tolerating consensus you now have communities of views which drive people to more and more extreme positions to showcase their virtue.

And it's the known psychological fact that people would rather double down and push something they know is false and a lie rather than admit that they were wrong and change themselves as a result.

So you have people who have decided that their community is fellow Fox watchers, and they're going to spout Fox propaganda at each other to build that community, but they're going to start pushing further and further into weird extreme positions in order to distinguish themselves and gain a following, and Fox is going to react by moving closer to those extreme positions to keep its audience, and when anything ever comes out that makes it clear that they're wrong, they're going to double down on how they're right, or how they know they're wrong but they don't care because it's about having the power to ignore right and wrong, because the alternative is to accept the ego death of admitting a mistake and changing.

The Islamic Shock
Apr 8, 2021

je1 healthcare posted:

Old people being unbearable assholes isn't a new concept, a lot retired into poverty because no one could tolerate being with or supporting them. And many old people are nice as a matter of survival. Except now a growing number of millions have social media accounts to soapbox with, and we're exposed to the hot takes of people who's own children don't want to speak with them.

That, and they were straight-laced back when they were teenagers because they were afraid to defy their parents or lose ties with the community that would guarantee them job security. It was a matter or economic survival, but they always resented hippies and beatniks for cheating the system, running away from home at 17 and being unafraid of the possibility of poverty. And they continued to resent them when the media promoting them as the "cool" ones while they had to conform. As a result of consuming decades of TV and media that told them they were chumps for "conforming", they take to the internet to espouse the sort of anger they're too afraid to express in real life. Sort of like the young marginalized nerds that made up the internet 20 years ago.

It's kind of interesting, there's certain categories of people who are more likely to be antisocial, but only when they're insulated from economic consequences. So teenagers and retirees, but also working adults who command high salaries and can't get fired for being rude. And the people who are unfazed by the prospect of being poor.

I dunno I'm spitballing here.
Mostly yes, but my lifelong Republican grandfather turned against Trump in a big fuckin' hurry when the government shutdown hosed with his money, and he's got a lot more of that than time. Hilariously enough he has zero problems with Jews but he still hates Soros because he never got the memo about it being a dogwhistle.

cat botherer
Jan 6, 2022

I am interested in most phases of data processing.

The Islamic Shock posted:

Mostly yes, but my lifelong Republican grandfather turned against Trump in a big fuckin' hurry when the government shutdown hosed with his money, and he's got a lot more of that than time. Hilariously enough he has zero problems with Jews but he still hates Soros because he never got the memo about it being a dogwhistle.
Soros: the one bad billionaire.

Crunch Buttsteak
Feb 26, 2007

You think reality is a circle of salt around my brain keeping witches out?
So, over the course of the weekend, Pride parades happened in many cities. The one in New York City has the far right media currently whipped up into a frenzy, because there's video of the entire crowd chanting "We're here, we're queer, we're coming for your children"! The Alphabet Mafia is finally just coming out and saying it!! Believe what these degenerate perverts are telling you, we need to protect our kids!!!

Then you hear the actual video, and it's total bullshit.

(Spoilered URL because the video has someone with nipple tassels on and while it's standard Pride stuff, let's play it safe in case your boss is looking over your shoulder)

:nws: https://twitter.com/Rifleman4WVU/status/1672425752141217792

As you can tell because I assume you have loving ears, the actual chant is "We're here, we're queer, we're not going shopping", which is apparently a reference to a 90's gay rights slogan (I wouldn't know, I'm one of those millennial rural gays). Exactly one person says "We're coming for your children", once, and it certainly sounds like the person behind the camera. The cadence of the chant is completely different than what they say, so it's pretty easy to differentiate.

This hasn't stopped far right pundits from treating this as the True Gay Manifesto being publicly revealed. It's got a lot of people clumsily trying their hand at stochastic terrorism, doing the whole "Listen, it's perfectly reasonable for you to want to hurt these pedophiles who are actively preying sexually on our children... But don't, please!" song and dance. And it's not like the whole "Joe Biden admitting he sold state secrets" thing, where they cut it off after the one person says it, they play the whole clip, and just pretend that the chant continued, while they're blatantly saying something else.

Like, taking something out of context is one thing, but proudly playing a clip, insisting that it's actually something else, and using that to not-really-but-yes-really advocate for violence is... concerning.

Harvey Mantaco
Mar 6, 2007

Someone please help me find my keys =(
Emma Vigiland from the majority report went on tim pools show and made him look pretty foolish. He asked her to stay at their compound for sushi after the interview and she obviously declined, and next show he's calling her a pedophile. Just insane.

Are the pedophile accusations ever going to cry-wolf these people? Seems like it would have by now, but there doesn't seem to be much of a consequence.

VorpalBunny
May 1, 2009

Killer Rabbit of Caerbannog

Dr. Faustus posted:

I have a fun gimmick account on Twitter that I have had to stop checking due to seeing three people killed in robberies gone wrong. I am not good with poo poo like that and I am bummed by how things have changed. Twitter was a safe place for me to do my silly gimmick and read about politics. Now I don't dare scroll it because poo poo is straight disturbing.

Apparently a dude getting hosed by a horse is ok with Twitter:

"Hello,
Thanks for reporting caseythelogger and for using your voice to make Twitter better for everyone. After review, we want to let you know caseythelogger hasn't broken our sensitive media rule.
We allow sensitive content — like consensually produced adult content, graphic imagery and violence — in Tweets as long as it doesn't break our sensitive media policy.
What can you do?
If you don’t want to see sensitive media on Twitter, you can update your sensitive media settings.
Please report child sexual exploitation and non-consensual nudity separately. And if there’s sexual violence in this Tweet, please report it as violent. We have zero tolerance for those kinds of behaviors.
Thanks,
Twitter"

Again, this is something that popped up in my For You feed. Multiple somethings, it started with vanilla hetero porn and quickly escalated. I didn't seek it out, it just popped up in my feed. And Twitter is ok with it. Don't let your kids scroll Twitter, y'all, this poo poo is hosed up.

I AM GRANDO
Aug 20, 2006

Harvey Mantaco posted:

Emma Vigiland from the majority report went on tim pools show and made him look pretty foolish. He asked her to stay at their compound for sushi after the interview and she obviously declined, and next show he's calling her a pedophile. Just insane.

Are the pedophile accusations ever going to cry-wolf these people? Seems like it would have by now, but there doesn't seem to be much of a consequence.

Words don’t mean anything to them, or they don’t have a literal meaning. Calling someone a pedophile just means you don’t think of them as human and want to signal that they should be exterminated, so whether or not a person has committed a particular crime, they are still in essence a pedophile because a pedophile is a subhuman deserving of extermination. They’ll probably get confused if you bring up the specifics of a criminal record, or say it doesn’t matter.

Capn Jobe
Jan 18, 2003

That's right. Here it is. But it's like you always have compared the sword, the making of the sword, with the making of the character. Cuz the stronger, the stronger it will get, right, the stronger the steel will get, with all that, and the same as with the character.
Soiled Meat

I AM GRANDO posted:

Words don’t mean anything to them, or they don’t have a literal meaning. Calling someone a pedophile just means you don’t think of them as human and want to signal that they should be exterminated, so whether or not a person has committed a particular crime, they are still in essence a pedophile because a pedophile is a subhuman deserving of extermination. They’ll probably get confused if you bring up the specifics of a criminal record, or say it doesn’t matter.

I'd imagine I'm not the only one who did this, but when I was 10-12 or so I thought it was absolutely hilarious to do Mad Libs and just fill in "butt" for every word. Somehow that has become a way of life for these peoples. Obviously the words are different (they use "pedophile" and "woke" for everything), but it's just all so dumb.

Captain_Maclaine
Sep 30, 2001

Every moment that I'm alive, I pray for death!

Capn Jobe posted:

I'd imagine I'm not the only one who did this, but when I was 10-12 or so I thought it was absolutely hilarious to do Mad Libs and just fill in "butt" for every word. Somehow that has become a way of life for these peoples. Obviously the words are different (they use "pedophile" and "woke" for everything), but it's just all so dumb.

Right Wing Media: It's Just All So Dumb

Panfilo
Aug 27, 2011
Probation
Can't post for 5 hours!

Harvey Mantaco posted:

Emma Vigiland from the majority report went on tim pools show and made him look pretty foolish. He asked her to stay at their compound for sushi after the interview and she obviously declined, and next show he's calling her a pedophile. Just insane.

Are the pedophile accusations ever going to cry-wolf these people? Seems like it would have by now, but there doesn't seem to be much of a consequence.

Tim Pool projects really hard. He lost his temper, accused her of being a grifter and only going on the show to trawl for clips that could make her money. Him and his followers are calling her a pedophile because she didn't vehemently oppose having the book Gender Queer in schools. Of course on the show he happens to have a copy handy so he can point out that youtube won't let him show the content of the book, and yet leftists think it's ok to have it in elementary schools.
https://twitter.com/zekegonzalez22/status/1673768512743940123?t=8uP4eD2F7vT_Yzoexl0eQg&s=19
Here's the clip where Tim initially got triggered
https://twitter.com/MattLech/status/1672267439608848385?t=XyQsVwN6euVQnksFRGqC3A&s=19

Emma later told Sam Seder that she didn't see the skate park and Tim got mad and called her a liar. I think a lot of the hostility was about how he was trying to save face with his audience.

Panfilo
Aug 27, 2011
Probation
Can't post for 5 hours!

I AM GRANDO posted:

Words don’t mean anything to them, or they don’t have a literal meaning. Calling someone a pedophile just means you don’t think of them as human and want to signal that they should be exterminated, so whether or not a person has committed a particular crime, they are still in essence a pedophile because a pedophile is a subhuman deserving of extermination. They’ll probably get confused if you bring up the specifics of a criminal record, or say it doesn’t matter.

I kind of saw this coming a few years ago on Facebook honestly-you'd see a lot of people on the right virtue signaling how pedophiles need to be punished harshly, that we shouldn't tolerate it in our society, and loudly cheering news stories where some dad exacts brutal revenge on someone who molested his daughter.

The pedo thing runs on a couple things:

-Pedophilia is widely seen as something indefensible in society, so logically everyone should be "anti pedo". This gives the right an inarguable bully pulpit since any disagreement with them will come off as being sympathetic to pedophiles. They can then flimsily link it to other pet issues in order to dismiss the argument without having to really address it-"Pedophiles are largely in support of universal health care and teachers unions because these programs and organizations are the most sympathetic to pedos. If you're not working to dismantle these systems you are on the pedophiles side of this issue."

-Similarly, the idea of protecting and advocating for children comes off as common sense to most people, so the right will hide behind" protect the children" because the logical opposite of that is, "imperil children". Framing culture war issues on protecting children makes their critics look uncaring for the safety and well being of children. There's a lot of infantilism in all of this of course: the right loves to fixate on groups that have no agency and speak for them, they already do this with women, minorities, veterans, etc.

-The right thinks calling someone a fascist is a meaningless and empty accusation (which is why when trying to steelman arguments I genuinely want to know why/how something is fascist in that particular context, so it cannot easily be handwaved away). "Everything I don't like is fascist" is a meme the right makes about the left. Calling someone a pedo is just trying to use the same "tactic" against the left with their own "rules". You are a pedo because I say you are a pedo and I am going to center our perception of you as someone who is a pedo.

-They will joke about throwing pedos in woodchippers because it's a way to call for violence against their out groups but most crucially it's given some layers of deniability. The idea of executing a child molestor by throwing them into a wood chipper is a pretty violent hyperbole. They aren't being lynched, clubbed to death or killed by firing squad. You can't easily equivocate the call for violence the same as what they did vs other minority grouos (black people getting lynched, Jews being gassed, etc). So when you press them they can just handwave it as a joke, but it also gives them this high ground by drawing attention to people that would be upset at the idea of punishing child molestors.

Really where the rubber meets the road is whether or not some right winger doing all this posturing is gonna fire up the woodchipper when their kids beloved HS football coach, the church deacon, their favorite cousin, or their boss at work is doing the molesting. This type of crime is often seen as coming from ideological enemies (union teachers, antifa, LGBTQ folks, drag queens, etc) and not much more common offenders (stepparent, other close family, clergy/coach/etc).

The Islamic Shock
Apr 8, 2021

Panfilo posted:

Really where the rubber meets the road is whether or not some right winger doing all this posturing is gonna fire up the woodchipper when their kids beloved HS football coach, the church deacon, their favorite cousin, or their boss at work is doing the molesting. This type of crime is often seen as coming from ideological enemies (union teachers, antifa, LGBTQ folks, drag queens, etc) and not much more common offenders (stepparent, other close family, clergy/coach/etc).
Hey! Just because the coach fucks children doesn't mean he's a pedophile!

All this reminds me of the time Ben Garrison made a giant list of fascist traits Trump has, then from that, arrived at the conclusion he's not a fascist because he agrees with all those points. See also "no, I don't think as a Christian that someone being a billionaire automatically disqualifies them from being a good person".

The Islamic Shock fucked around with this message at 22:20 on Jun 27, 2023

Captain_Maclaine
Sep 30, 2001

Every moment that I'm alive, I pray for death!

Panfilo posted:

Really where the rubber meets the road is whether or not some right winger doing all this posturing is gonna fire up the woodchipper when their kids beloved HS football coach, the church deacon, their favorite cousin, or their boss at work is doing the molesting. This type of crime is often seen as coming from ideological enemies (union teachers, antifa, LGBTQ folks, drag queens, etc) and not much more common offenders (stepparent, other close family, clergy/coach/etc).

This reminds me of when the creeper allegations came out about Roy Moore during his Senate run, how he cruised the malls for teenage girls like for decades and was well known for it and suddenly the usual suspects who normally bay for blood whenever they hear about a book with gay people in it being read to kids were "well actually" it by claiming it was ~*courting*~ which was totally acceptable and not gross at all and you yankees just don't understand.

Captain_Maclaine fucked around with this message at 23:10 on Jun 27, 2023

je1 healthcare
Sep 29, 2015
I would've attributed the pedo hysteria to be an outlet for the constantly-induced adrenaline or anger high. 12 years ago the target was marxism. 30 years ago it was satanism, which like pedophilia was the ultimate indefensible evil and also largely existed in secret societies, requiring one to suss out hidden symbols as proof it exists. Not-coincidentally this has an overlap with Qanon.

And so they're not violently angry because pedos/satanists exists, but rather they need those targets to exist because they're violently angry.

Which also explains why a few on the left get trigger-happy in calling people genocidal fascists even for centrist stances, because it justifies a violent reaction.

Punching people only feels good if the target deserves it, but some days you really want to punch someone and you have to work harder to find some that deserves it. And so if you're in a bad mood, your brain does the logical leaps necessary to explain that everyone is an rear end in a top hat ruining your day and that your violence would do the world some good.

The Islamic Shock posted:

Mostly yes, but my lifelong Republican grandfather turned against Trump in a big fuckin' hurry when the government shutdown hosed with his money, and he's got a lot more of that than time. Hilariously enough he has zero problems with Jews but he still hates Soros because he never got the memo about it being a dogwhistle.

I don't think the majority of conservatives are angry at Soros for being jewish, because those same people also support Israeli hypernationalism. But rather because there's a huge comfort in simplifying a seemingly chaotic social change down to one or two puppetmasters, even in the form of a wealthy benefactor. Such as when the Tea Party movement swept the races in 2010 and dismantled the democratic supermajority, and suddenly the Koch bros became the leftist "theory of everything"

Professor Beetus
Apr 12, 2007

They can fight us
But they'll never Beetus

Captain_Maclaine posted:

This reminds me of when the creeper allegations came out about Roy Moore during his Senate run, how he cruised the malls for teenage girls like for decades and was well known for it and suddenly the usual suspects who normally bay for blood whenever they hear about a book with gay people in it being read to kids were "well actually" it by claiming it ~*courting*~ which was totally acceptable and not gross at all and you yankees just don't understand.

Yeeeeeah. The vast majority of states allow child marriage, and all but two states have age of consent lower than 18, with the majority being 16. If any of these assholes gave a poo poo about kids, they should be trying to do something about that. But they don't care about kids, they just hate LGBTQ+ folks.

Neito
Feb 18, 2009

😌Finally, an avatar the describes my love of tech❤️‍💻, my love of anime💖🎎, and why I'll never see a real girl 🙆‍♀️naked😭.

A huge part is that, to a conservative, being good isn't the result of your actions, it's an inherent thing you *are*. Roy Moore was a Good Man, so he couldn't be a Pedophile, which would be a Bad Man.

Panfilo
Aug 27, 2011
Probation
Can't post for 5 hours!
It also helps their narrative that it seems like far more of them are parents compared to leftists (I could be wrong here, just my perception). So they can act like they have a personal stake in these issues. The people on the leftist side of these conflicts and protests seem to skew younger in general and less likely to want/be able to afford children but still willing to act in solidarity for LGBTQ youth.

The scuffle in Burbank was a good example of this, where Armenian parents were pitted against antifa activists, instead of simply anti LGBTQ parents vs pro LGBTQ parents. Parallel to the homophobic rhetoric pushed by Anita Bryant in decades past, there's this idea that queer people "cannot reproduce on their own" therefore they must "convert" innocent children into their ideology. Of course this is nonsense, I figure the vast vast majority of LGBTQ people were born to cisgender heterosexual couples. So a straight person doesn't necessarily produce more straight people. But it makes it easy to Other people by putting them on a lower rung of society by virtue of being childless.

A parent committing violence against a pedophile is seen as a noble act to them because it's a very explicit demonstration that they are "doing their jobs" as parents. Childless leftists couldn't possibly understand, too preoccupied with their 57 genders and avocado toasts. So by virtue of being parents they are already trying to put their thumb on the scale of this discourse.

Panfilo
Aug 27, 2011
Probation
Can't post for 5 hours!

Neito posted:

A huge part is that, to a conservative, being good isn't the result of your actions, it's an inherent thing you *are*. Roy Moore was a Good Man, so he couldn't be a Pedophile, which would be a Bad Man.

This is very much related to why they get defensive about being called a racist. To them, bring a racist isn't simply a person that Does a Racism, it's someone intrinsically racist. It's very similar to calling someone a thief in a way, because you're often implying they steal in a very broad sense (as a career or affliction) vs someone who took something without permission once.

The Islamic Shock
Apr 8, 2021

Neito posted:

A huge part is that, to a conservative, being good isn't the result of your actions, it's an inherent thing you *are*. Roy Moore was a Good Man, so he couldn't be a Pedophile, which would be a Bad Man.
That's somewhat reflected in how Trump talks about anyone on his team who he perceives as having slighted him. One week someone always has been good, the next they always have been bad.

BiggerBoat
Sep 26, 2007

Don't you tell me my business again.
Beaten a little but posting anyway

I AM GRANDO posted:

Words don’t mean anything to them, or they don’t have a literal meaning. Calling someone a pedophile just means you don’t think of them as human and want to signal that they should be exterminated, so whether or not a person has committed a particular crime, they are still in essence a pedophile because a pedophile is a subhuman deserving of extermination. They’ll probably get confused if you bring up the specifics of a criminal record, or say it doesn’t matter.

It's not even that. It's just basically the worst thing you can call someone that no one can defend. So, since direct n and f word slurs a no go these days, everyone they dislike is now a child molestor, and no one would defend THAT, right?

quote:

The question I have is how we got to the point where this sort of edgy teenager crap is somehow mainstream for a sizable element of the elderly.

They're basically children; or at least childish about their persecution complex. They pout, whine, sulk, and then ultimately act out and name call (pedophile). But it's OK because they hang american flags, (sometimes) visit church on Sunday (where they're told that this is OK or even desirable and what Christ wants) and pretend to support the troops while fighting a non existent communist threat in the form of the democrats.

In addition to that, decades ago, Rush Limbaugh kind of cemented the idea of the conservative rebel.

Before that, being conservative was square, uptight and kind of a stuffed shirt thing. Not nerd driven, necessarily, but definitely not "cool" and kind of a Principal Skinner deal. Limbaugh made it EDGY by borrowing from Howard Stern and other shock jocks in a "can you believe he said that?" sort of way that drove buzz and ratings, combined with the whole "I'm just telling it like it is and saying what everyone is thinking but is too scared to say" schtick. It caught on and even hate listeners would tune in to see what crazy thing he would say next.

He'd found his niche and, admittedly, filled a bit of a vacuum and an untapped demand for angry conservative voices in media.

I remember being at some parties (in SF of all places) around the time that Rush was gaining steam and coming up in conversations and, occasionally, it was edgy for some dude to be a bit of right wing rear end in a top hat in an apartment full of liberal vegetarians, sometimes couched in "he has a few good points". Contrarian rhetoric sometimes for its own sake and such.

BiggerBoat fucked around with this message at 00:20 on Jun 28, 2023

Panfilo
Aug 27, 2011
Probation
Can't post for 5 hours!
Remember that conservatives project their own hyper conformity really hard. So for them, they are Independent Thinkers vs the out group that are Mindless Sheep.

Octatonic
Sep 7, 2010

I think the thread is overthinking the pedophile thing. Variations on the word "pederast" is the go-to slur for gay men in a whole lot of Europe, and has been since at least the early 1900s. Accusing gay people of "recruitment" was a big thing in US discourse during the AIDS crisis. This is just returning to a very old homophobic trope. A new wave of an age-old hatred. Yeah, the accusation of pedophilia is resonant and frightening for all the reasons the thread has been over, but it's also just a go-to move. The most radicalizing images put forth by the satanic panic in the 90s and q-anon are also about ritual child sex abuse.

As we all agree I think, sexual abuse of minors is real and terrifyingly common, but actually addressing it would necessarily undermine some of the institutions the right wing loves, like the unchecked authority of the parent, the priest, the boss, and so forth. I think that society as a whole, and the right in particular, refuses to accept that sexual abuse happens isn't something that happens primarily at home and in the community, rather than by outside forces.

Octatonic fucked around with this message at 18:50 on Jun 28, 2023

OgNar
Oct 26, 2002

They tapdance not, neither do they fart
Fox makes it look like a hooker peed all over me.

https://twitter.com/RonFilipkowski/status/1674019724101836800

I AM GRANDO
Aug 20, 2006

He’s such a weak pissbaby. Why do they see him as strong when he complains that everything is someone else’s fault?

Clarste
Apr 15, 2013

Just how many mistakes have you suffered on the way here?

An uncountable number, to be sure.
That's the definition of strength to them, probably.

DarklyDreaming
Apr 4, 2009

Fun scary

Clarste posted:

That's the definition of strength to them, probably.

That's it really, in their eyes every problem can be fixed by finding the person responsible and intimidating them into compliance.

The Islamic Shock
Apr 8, 2021
I have late-night thoughts like this occasionally where I think about how to explain things to a layperson and really I just need to write this down somewhere. This is for why the FBI infiltrates leftist knitting circles while being horribly incompetent in preventing 1/6.

There's only one crime in America that absolutely nobody can get away with regardless of wealth, status or anything else, and it sure ain't pedophilia. It's loving with rich peoples' money. Bernie Madoff, Martha Stewart, Martin Shkreli. Does not matter who you are. You gently caress with rich peoples' money, you go to jail. Now then, let's look at the nature of law enforcement. They generally prefer to gather evidence of crimes about to happen, let you do it, and easily punish you for it rather than prevent the crime from happening altogether. However! loving with rich peoples' money is such an unacceptably egregious offense that they're willing to make an exception in that case. One major thing leftist groups seek to do is find and support legal ways of loving with rich people's money. Well if they're going for legal avenues to do the least acceptable thing in America, what can the FBI do about it? Plant someone in there, either entrap or frame a leader, and at that point they've already won- even if their case gets thrown out for being the world's most obvious case of entrapment, the group is still disbanded. Contrast this to 1/6. Right-wingers either don't care about the rich having all that money or actively want them to get more of it. Plenty of bad poo poo went down during the insurrection, but rich peoples' money was not in peril at any stage of the planning and execution of that. So the FBI is merrily going about business as usual punishing the perpetrators after letting it happen. Why would they want to prevent it? They're not so incompetent as to not see the very obvious and open signs of how it was going to go down. They had to actively not want to see any of it.

That's my TED talk.

bird food bathtub
Aug 9, 2003

College Slice
I would add in that some of those who work forces, are the same that burn crosses.

SpeakSlow
May 17, 2004

by Fluffdaddy

bird food bathtub posted:

I would add in that some of those who work forces, are the same that burn crosses.

Oh sure, NOW you won't do what I tell ya.

The Islamic Shock
Apr 8, 2021

bird food bathtub posted:

I would add in that some of those who work forces, are the same that burn crosses.
Absolutely. I didn't throw systemic racism in there because good fuckin' luck making anyone anywhere near where I live acknowledge it exists.

Edit: motherfucker! *dun* *dun* *dun* *dun* *dun* *dun*

The Islamic Shock fucked around with this message at 16:06 on Jun 29, 2023

BiggerBoat
Sep 26, 2007

Don't you tell me my business again.
It's so weird to me today.

The right got a big SCOTUS win on a hot button issue for them but you'd never know it listening to RWM this afternoon. They're raging and angry about a decision that went their way just because a few people took exception to it.

I also caught a Hannity commercial today where he was hawking some poo poo or another and you got a free copy of the declaration of independence when you signed up for whatever bullshit it was. I forget, but I know it was some kind of religious christian thing.

The thing that stood out to me was that he shilled this poo poo by saying that the constitution and the declaration of independence were inspired by god and we all know this true, or something like that, and it drove me mad. The word "god" doesn't appear anywhere in the constitution and I doubt that was a deliberate oversight. IIRC, the founding fathers specifically wanted to avoid any whiff of theocracy in these documents, precisely because that was what they were fleeing and absolutely did NOT want.

But, no, all Great Americans are Christians and God made the USA.

Now send your kids to this great school or whatever the gently caress it was.

NDP
Jun 25, 2021

BiggerBoat posted:

It's so weird to me today.

The right got a big SCOTUS win on a hot button issue for them but you'd never know it listening to RWM this afternoon. They're raging and angry about a decision that went their way just because a few people took exception to it.

RWM has always been that way. They are the very definition of "sore winners." They're like the football coach who tears his team a new one even after they win 84-3 because they allowed a garbage-time field goal or didn't try to get over 100 points.

DarklyDreaming
Apr 4, 2009

Fun scary

NDP posted:

RWM has always been that way. They are the very definition of "sore winners." They're like the football coach who tears his team a new one even after they win 84-3 because they allowed a garbage-time field goal or didn't try to get over 100 points.

Even that coach has more realistic end goals than the average chud. They can win so many elections and have so many supreme court rulings end in their favor, but they keep losing arguments at work/meeting people they don't like, and every day their children respect them a little less. They keep trying to brute force their way into reversing these trends, and it keeps getting worse, so all they have is their anger

Panfilo
Aug 27, 2011
Probation
Can't post for 5 hours!
poo poo they think totally happened
https://twitter.com/9mm_smg/status/1674460722229653521?t=wY_E64bg0JOrwi5rnRYR3A&s=19

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RoboChrist 9000
Dec 14, 2006

Mater Dolorosa

BiggerBoat posted:

The right got a big SCOTUS win on a hot button issue for them but you'd never know it listening to RWM this afternoon. They're raging and angry about a decision that went their way just because a few people took exception to it.

"A true victory is to make your enemy see they were wrong to oppose you in the first place. To force them to acknowledge your greatness." - Gul Dukat

It's not enough for them to win. They need their enemies to be humiliated and debased and to admit they were wrong and that they were beaten and that they should have never told you to stop coming to their Thanksgiving dinners.

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