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hope they don't overextend themselves, cause they've ballooned into a multi studio, multi project developer e:I wonder if the thing they're doing for MS is a Gears-skinned Outriders.
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Jun 27, 2023 07:21
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Microsoft really should of used it money to buy the BBC. The word needs more Eastenders video games!!!!
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Jun 27, 2023 09:33
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https://twitter.com/duckvalentine/status/1673722195074510852
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Jun 27, 2023 17:12
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It could also just be nationalism; I don't think Sony or Nintendo ever shook the 'Japanese international corporation' stigma they acquired in the 80s and 90s in the US, and I could see that still being a significant enough factor to nudge sales. That's pure speculation, though, and it's not like Microsoft has a sterling rep either.
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Jun 27, 2023 17:20
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Statistically speaking, he's not wrong that the US loves them shooting games.
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Jun 27, 2023 17:32
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I can't speak for all regions, but I do remember reading that Microsoft pissed off a lot of Japanese developers due to some mixture of arrogance and ignorance, so most of the games on the XBox line were Western developed. I think there was a bit of a change in this during the 360/PS3 era just because if you wanted your game to sell in America, you had to put it on 360, because the 360 was shitstomping the PS3. I'm pretty sure the major point behind games like Enchanted Arms and Blue Dragon was a desperate "we have those games too, please love us" play.
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Jun 27, 2023 17:41
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MechaCrash posted:I can't speak for all regions, but I do remember reading that Microsoft pissed off a lot of Japanese developers due to some mixture of arrogance and ignorance, so most of the games on the XBox line were Western developed. I think there was a bit of a change in this during the 360/PS3 era just because if you wanted your game to sell in America, you had to put it on 360, because the 360 was shitstomping the PS3. I can't speak for how other countries see it, but as someone living in the US, I've always felt that XBox has oozed with "American frat boy" energy. It's dumb, but that's at least how it felt to me.
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Jun 27, 2023 18:22
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Mordiceius posted:I can't speak for how other countries see it, but as someone living in the US, I've always felt that XBox has oozed with "American frat boy" energy. It's dumb, but that's at least how it felt to me. THank you OP.
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Jun 27, 2023 18:25
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Mordiceius posted:I can't speak for how other countries see it, but as someone living in the US, I've always felt that XBox has oozed with "American frat boy" energy. It's dumb, but that's at least how it felt to me. My first impression of that was the original XBox, big respect-demanding console for big respect-demanding gamers. Made to sit somewhere, not move, and things revolve around it, fits right into a fratboy gamer sort of idea. This was at the same time the lightweight gamecube had a carrying handle, and a few years later the PS2 slim was so tiny that I still have it sitting on the corner of my gaming table because it's not in the way of anything.
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Jun 27, 2023 18:32
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MechaCrash posted:I can't speak for all regions, but I do remember reading that Microsoft pissed off a lot of Japanese developers due to some mixture of arrogance and ignorance, so most of the games on the XBox line were Western developed. I think there was a bit of a change in this during the 360/PS3 era just because if you wanted your game to sell in America, you had to put it on 360, because the 360 was shitstomping the PS3. Also Lost Odyssey and Infinite Undiscovery, they were paying Square Enix for exclusives that ended up meaning nothing because no-one wanted the S-E side projects when all the big stuff was on PS3. The Xbox was always a US-centric brand, the 360 was massively outsold by the PS3 in Europe/UK (about 23m 360 to 39m PS3) so the idea that the 360 dominated the generation is one of those things people always assume because of how dominant it was in the US when that didn't really track in the rest of the world. Even at the time I remember American gaming podcasts joking about how Europe was a Sony stronghold. I can't think of any obvious reason for that being the case though beyond raw "I bought the PS1, I bought the PS2, of course I'm going to buy the PS3" momentum. Or it could just be because people wanted a blu-ray player.
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Jun 27, 2023 18:40
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Lost Odyssey was not a "Square Enix side project" what are you talking about OP
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Jun 27, 2023 19:03
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and yeah the 360 was third place in that generation, its just remembered differently because of how US-centric a lot of game forums are. granted getting close to the PS3 after how much the PS2 sold was probably a good trend but they did the opposite of "shitstomp" the ps3.
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Jun 27, 2023 19:07
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Feels Villeneuve posted:Lost Odyssey was not a "Square Enix side project" what are you talking about OP I didn't say it was, I was referring to Infinite Undiscovery moreso but worded it badly.
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Jun 27, 2023 19:09
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This is the FTC’s witness I think? Even if this did happen - which it isn’t, as the game isn’t going exclusive - this doesn’t really seem like a lot. https://twitter.com/stephentotilo/status/1673755979769323530?s=46&t=IW0MSOWK0Lh4VsB3wVLoOA
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Jun 27, 2023 19:27
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The 'it's not exclusive though' argument holds no weight and I cannot believe anyone is taking that seriously - like we haven't seen the effects of a deal like this in the past. It's not exclusive...for now, but 10 years is nothing - it's a blink. If this was a deal that went down 40 years ago, the 'non-exclusive' portion of this deal would be viewed as joke. And 40 years from now, that's what it will look like.
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Jun 27, 2023 19:41
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You're also relying on Microsoft standing by their word and not rewriting the contracts they've signed (which isn't many, a lot of these seem to be just trust us deals) because none of their partners are going to want to piss off Microsoft and the ones that can afford to piss them off won't have the money to stand against their lawyers. They already rewrote a contract Bethesda signed with Disney to make Indiana Jones an Xbox exclusive.
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Jun 27, 2023 19:51
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Idk I think 10 years is kind of an eternity in this industry. Think how much has changed since 2013. And even if it was made exclusive - at least by this model - it wouldn’t even come close to significantly changing the market they’re basing this on.njsykora posted:You're also relying on Microsoft standing by their word and not rewriting the contracts they've signed (which isn't many, a lot of these seem to be just trust us deals) because none of their partners are going to want to piss off Microsoft and the ones that can afford to piss them off won't have the money to stand against their lawyers. They already rewrote a contract Bethesda signed with Disney to make Indiana Jones an Xbox exclusive. Presumably Microsoft didn’t unilaterally rewrite it so much as renegotiate it with Disney, something that Sony probably wouldn’t do if they view CoD as such a necessary title.
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Jun 27, 2023 19:55
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Anno posted:Idk I think 10 years is kind of an eternity in this industry. Think how much has changed since 2013. And even if it was made exclusive - at least by this model - it wouldn’t even come close to significantly changing the market they’re basing this on. I would say nothing has changed in 10 years. The players are still Microsoft, Sony, and Nintendo - has been for 20 years now. The major distributor on PC has been Steam - also has been for 20 years. Platforms outside of these exist, but are a minor portion of the market and aren't a real threat to the major players. The nuances of how games are distributed has changed somewhat, and the Fad Of the Day has shifted a few times, but the high level view of the market has remained basically the same. (excluding mobile, I wouldn't put that in the same category). The biggest tangible change is probably the Epic Games Store, which doesn't really intersect meaningfully in the Sony/MS deal. E: And that Sony and MS has scooped up a ton of studio footprint since. Canine Blues Arooo fucked around with this message at 20:09 on Jun 27, 2023 |
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Jun 27, 2023 20:02
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Anno posted:Presumably Microsoft didn’t unilaterally rewrite it so much as renegotiate it with Disney, something that Sony probably wouldn’t do if they view CoD as such a necessary title. Sony don't have any kind of contract on getting CoD though, so Microsoft would have all the leverage and effectively be able to force terms to say it's this or no game.
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Jun 27, 2023 20:03
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njsykora posted:Sony don't have any kind of contract on getting CoD though, so Microsoft would have all the leverage and effectively be able to force terms to say it's this or no game. I assume “we must approve your contract” is a reasonable remedy as part of the approval of the deal.
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Jun 27, 2023 20:13
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Canine Blues Arooo posted:I would say nothing has changed in 10 years. I'd say the shift to digital massively solidifying last gen was a pretty major shift? That's what Phil Spencer cited as being the reason why "losing" that gen was the worst gen to lose, because it's when peoples accounts being carried forward with all of their digital purchases/saves/etc became much more weighty than in the 360/PS3 > XBone/PS4 generation shift. Obviously digital games were around in that previous gen but it was the massive uptick in stuff like the live service games and backwards compatibility making your account and accumulated purchases much more valuable in peoples minds. It's only going to become more and more entrenched as each gen goes by as well.
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Jun 27, 2023 20:23
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thebardyspoon posted:I'd say the shift to digital massively solidifying last gen was a pretty major shift? That's what Phil Spencer cited as being the reason why "losing" that gen was the worst gen to lose, because it's when peoples accounts being carried forward with all of their digital purchases/saves/etc became much more weighty than in the 360/PS3 > XBone/PS4 generation shift. Perhaps - I think through some lens you could sell this to me as a 'major shift' -- Maybe I'm less sensitive to it as an individual whose Steam account is old enough to drive, but I don't think I buy this really as an industry shift, so much as a distribution shift whose effect has little effect on net sales, market share, or who is buying what re: choosing a platform.
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Jun 27, 2023 20:26
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lih posted:people can fly (outriders - this is a weird one, outriders was apparently successful enough to impress microsoft and they really haven't done much else that anyone cares about. they have an unannounced microsoft-published title in the works) Shut up, we'll eventually get a Painkiller sequel that's worth something 
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Jun 27, 2023 23:17
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MechaCrash posted:I can't speak for all regions, but I do remember reading that Microsoft pissed off a lot of Japanese developers due to some mixture of arrogance and ignorance, so most of the games on the XBox line were Western developed. I think there was a bit of a change in this during the 360/PS3 era just because if you wanted your game to sell in America, you had to put it on 360, because the 360 was shitstomping the PS3. and as silly as this is going to sound the original xbox was literally way too big for Japanese audiences. Like, physically. Japanese houses are on average way smaller than american houses, and a lot of people in Tokyo live in small apartments, not actual houses. The original xbox is about a third bigger than the PS2 and about twice as big as the gamecube. It's hard to find space for the drat thing. Xbox's marketing strategy in Japan was to lean into the 'bulky American electronic that plays American games,' thing, treat it as a foreign novelty, but there were a lot of American PS2 games that got releases in Japan if people wanted to try that stuff out. Not to mention their ads just sucked. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iOP_12y7t30 Like this was the big ad for Halo, the xbox's killer title, over there. What. There's clearly a market for Western games in Japan, Witcher 3 did very well and Apex Legends is absolutely massive over there, and Valve's work is generally known despite the PC gaming boom never happening, but Microsoft just never even attempted to make the case for their console, and it was offputting in its design and general vibes.
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Jun 27, 2023 23:36
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even in europe they never really figured out how to market xbox that well. not quite as non-existent as xbox's presence in japan and they were a bit more competitive in the 360/ps3 generation, but it's really only been the anglosphere where xbox isn't behind by a large margin. the series x/s have apparently already outsold the xbox one in japan by a fair bit though, so they're trying a bit again i guess.
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Jun 28, 2023 00:18
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That is an insanely poo poo ad, wow 
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Jun 28, 2023 00:50
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It's not exactly current stuff but probably still of interest re: Game Industry. https://twitter.com/MegaDriveShock/status/1675798596950847488 A 272-page PDF of classified Sega of America docs from ~1996 was posted online (fiscal year 1997) So if you want to dig in to see how they were talking about their "first class games only" policy for Saturn in America or whatever.
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Jul 3, 2023 20:46
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“First class games only” like Criticom, you mean
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Jul 3, 2023 20:59
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This seems right to me. Do we have historical numbers on the platform share of call of duty over time? Because my gut would be that call of duty modern warfare alone probably accounted for like a third of all 360 sales and was the #1 reason for its dominance in the US, plus halo. Certainly for the early period of like 2007 to 2012 or so. I never heard of anyone playing cod on playstation at least personally during that time
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Jul 5, 2023 03:04
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icantfindaname posted:This seems right to me. Do we have historical numbers on the platform share of call of duty over time? Because my gut would be that call of duty modern warfare alone probably accounted for like a third of all 360 sales and was the #1 reason for its dominance in the US, plus halo. Certainly for the early period of like 2007 to 2012 or so. I never heard of anyone playing cod on playstation at least personally during that time Microsoft had the Call of Duty marketing contract at that time, where they'd get the DLC maps first and advertising would prioritise the Xbox branding. When the contract came up for renewal Microsoft were in the Mattrick Kinect era and didn't think they needed it so Sony snapped it up immediately and I believe the majority of COD sales were on the PS4 next generation, those numbers apparently came out of the current trial.
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Jul 5, 2023 03:29
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Microsoft had one-month timed exclusivity for Call of Duty DLC between 2010-2015 (MW2, BO, MW3, BO2, Ghosts, AW).
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Jul 5, 2023 03:45
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Endorph posted:and as silly as this is going to sound the original xbox was literally way too big for Japanese audiences. Like, physically. Japanese houses are on average way smaller than american houses, and a lot of people in Tokyo live in small apartments, not actual houses. The original xbox is about a third bigger than the PS2 and about twice as big as the gamecube. It's hard to find space for the drat thing. Xbox's marketing strategy in Japan was to lean into the 'bulky American electronic that plays American games,' thing, treat it as a foreign novelty, but there were a lot of American PS2 games that got releases in Japan if people wanted to try that stuff out. The size thing is a dumb stereotype. The size was more of a meme here in Japan like anywhere else, but in the end it was a software issue. The only game people wanted to play was DOA3, which was enough for Xbox to sell pretty decently at launch and then just flatline immediately. Not enough Japanese content, and barely anything exclusive that anyone was interested in. It quickly became the console for PC gamers (who were a very niche audience back then) and those who really like western games. Didn't help that MS quickly gave up in the region. They made one exclusive game (Magatama) and when that didn't sell well they shut it all down. Hell, MS used to just drop American games and not even bother localizing them in Japanese, doing things like that won't exactly do much in building up a fanbase. Seems to be a pattern, they tried again in the 360 generation and when they didn't win the region they quickly dismantled all the good will they had earned near the end of the 360/XBO era. They're trying again and promising they've learned their lessons but fool me twice... The size thing is irrelevant. Yes, Japanese houses and apartments may be smaller than in other countries, but if you wanted to buy an Xbox, you'd find space for it. No one was thinking 'wow, I really want this Xbox, but it's just too big and I have nowhere to put it!' If that was the case, then the PS5 would also be dead in Japan.
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Jul 5, 2023 06:44
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I always heard the space thing in connection with PC gaming which makes a lot more sense since to use a desktop PC you also need a whole rear end desk. But that's still just the big cities.
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Jul 5, 2023 06:56
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Size was the issue, but not the console itself. Dainty Japanese hands just couldn’t handle the big, manly, American Chad XBox controller.
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Jul 5, 2023 07:01
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Would market saturation have had a serious role to play? By the time Xbox was really a thing, Japan already had at least Nintendo and Playstation as local console lines with major market share. (If I recall correctly, the Dreamcast was on its way out from a poor reception when Xbox was finally arriving.) And Japan is a market that is, to be very frank, a lot smaller than the US, so there's just less in absolute numbers for Xbox to have wedged its way into when it came to being someone's choice for their second or third console. Or first, even. Half-assing an already pretty poor situation obviously wouldn't have helped either.
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Jul 5, 2023 07:11
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xbox hueg
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Jul 5, 2023 07:12
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disposablewords posted:Would market saturation have had a serious role to play? By the time Xbox was really a thing, Japan already had at least Nintendo and Playstation as local console lines with major market share. (If I recall correctly, the Dreamcast was on its way out from a poor reception when Xbox was finally arriving.) And Japan is a market that is, to be very frank, a lot smaller than the US, so there's just less in absolute numbers for Xbox to have wedged its way into when it came to being someone's choice for their second or third console. Or first, even. Half-assing an already pretty poor situation obviously wouldn't have helped either. Yeah according to vgchartz (yeah I know) the ps3 sold half as many units in Japan as the PS2 or PS1, the bottom had fallen out of the market by the time the 360 comes on the scene
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Jul 5, 2023 10:02
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Original_Z posted:The size thing is irrelevant. Yes, Japanese houses and apartments may be smaller than in other countries, but if you wanted to buy an Xbox, you'd find space for it. No one was thinking 'wow, I really want this Xbox, but it's just too big and I have nowhere to put it!' If that was the case, then the PS5 would also be dead in Japan. The numbers tell a different story. Size is absolutely a thing, or at least one of the things. The PSP was the last piece of Sony hardware to compete for any semblance of sales dominance in the Japanese market. The PS4 started selling *okay* when they announced a slim model, and Monster Hunter World kept those numbers healthy for maybe one year longer, but there is no hiding the truth that while Sony may have a certain aging cultural resonance in Japan their home consoles are more accepted in foreign markets. The home console market hasn't been a thing in Japan since the last year of the PS2, it simply never fully recovered from the difficulties of HD transition.
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Jul 5, 2023 11:19
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BeanpolePeckerwood posted:The numbers tell a different story. Size is absolutely a thing, or at least one of the things. The PSP was the last piece of Sony hardware to compete for any semblance of sales dominance in the Japanese market. The PS4 started selling *okay* when they announced a slim model, and Monster Hunter World kept those numbers healthy for maybe one year longer, but there is no hiding the truth that while Sony may have a certain aging cultural resonance in Japan their home consoles are more accepted in foreign markets. The home console market hasn't been a thing in Japan since the last year of the PS2, it simply never fully recovered from the difficulties of HD transition. I think the story is that the Japanese market shifted to portables as primary consoles around the PSP. Then Sony underinvested the Vita due to a shift in focus to the western market. I expect most people could find room for an honestly not huge box to put next to their TV (which is significantly larger than said box). But if there are social dynamics around playing games _outside_ then it's a nonstarter.
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Jul 5, 2023 11:28
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Which is why I think you see the Switch absolutely dominant in Japan, and Valve made a big push for the Steam Deck there though I don't know how well that took.
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Jul 5, 2023 11:41
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