(Thread IKs:
weg, Toxic Mental)
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mobby_6kl posted:I'm pretty surprised they're pushing there instead of a more strategic location though, clearing out Soledar or Bakhmut won't do beyond a small morale boost perhaps Russia has an illogical wish to keep those bombed out holes, they keep throwing in far too many personnel and equipment they cant afford to lose into it. So whynot just keep makignthem lose those resources?
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Jun 30, 2023 00:09
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I just hope Ukraine doesn't take too long or lose too many soldiers for Bakhmut round 2
EorayMel fucked around with this message at 00:12 on Jun 30, 2023 |
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Jun 30, 2023 00:10
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god please help me posted:What is an American reporter doing being very public in Moscow? I thought foreign journalists weren't allowed. Whatever Putin tells them to do.
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Jun 30, 2023 00:10
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EorayMel posted:I just hope Ukraine doesn't take too long or lose too many soldiers for Bakhmut round 2 As it appears they are doing the smart, good military thing of NOT walking directly into prepared fortifications and instead enveloping it, I think there's a good chance of low casualties.
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Jun 30, 2023 00:22
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I figured that Ukraine might try to push for Bakhmut, makes a ton of sense from the perspective of hunting a "win" because Russia likely hasn't been able to consolidate the capture of the city into it's network of prepared defensive lines - both because of the relative recency of the ending of the Bakhmut campaign as well as the fact that the city has been under Ukrainian artillery. The huge "gently caress off" prepared defense network runs behind the current Russian front in Bakhmut - closer to Popasna is my understanding from the maps that have been posted. Russia may be induced to fall back out of Bakhmut to that line if Ukraine puts enough pressure on them. Again probably the most obvious place to attack out of anywhere on the front if the goal is to force Russia to fall back and re-capture territory. Makes double sense since apparently Russia is starting to advance on Sivers'k so if Ukraine can re-take Bakhmut that helps keep Sivers'k in their possession.
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Jun 30, 2023 00:25
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Starsfan posted:I figured that Ukraine might try to push for Bakhmut, makes a ton of sense from the perspective of hunting a "win" because Russia likely hasn't been able to consolidate the capture of the city into it's network of prepared defensive lines - both because of the relative recency of the ending of the Bakhmut campaign as well as the fact that the city has been under Ukrainian artillery. gently caress off back to your crayon eating thread (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jun 30, 2023 00:45
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Tai posted:gently caress off back to your crayon eating thread what the poo poo dude
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Jun 30, 2023 00:49
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Starsfan posted:I figured that Ukraine might try to push for Bakhmut, makes a ton of sense from the perspective of hunting a "win" because Russia likely hasn't been able to consolidate the capture of the city into it's network of prepared defensive lines - both because of the relative recency of the ending of the Bakhmut campaign as well as the fact that the city has been under Ukrainian artillery. That's a fair point. It would also draw a lot of Russian attention given the embarrassment a loss would cause.
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Jun 30, 2023 00:54
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Tai posted:gently caress off back to your crayon eating thread Don't be an rear end. He was posting in good faith.
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Jun 30, 2023 01:17
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Grab a snickers tai
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Jun 30, 2023 01:29
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https://twitter.com/oryxspioenkop/status/1674491705431584776?s=46&t=6HOSYVrXffESMo0NlyR0Lg
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Jun 30, 2023 01:33
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You know I think it's going to strengthen Russian lines not to have Wagner running around sledgehammering people to death
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Jun 30, 2023 01:45
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https://twitter.com/RALee85/status/1674550868455178240?t=z3KTdT7dzxjUSIQATdufhQ&s=19 Zelenskyy puts another quarter in the US Military Industrial Claw-machine and out pops... ... ... ... CLUSTER BOMBS GET!
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Jun 30, 2023 01:49
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HonorableTB posted:https://twitter.com/RALee85/status/1674550868455178240?t=z3KTdT7dzxjUSIQATdufhQ&s=19  the M46 these apparently drop are simultaneously an antivehicle shaped charge and an antipersonnel frag? area denial indeed
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Jun 30, 2023 01:53
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HonorableTB posted:https://twitter.com/RALee85/status/1674550868455178240?t=z3KTdT7dzxjUSIQATdufhQ&s=19
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Jun 30, 2023 01:59
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HonorableTB posted:fun fact, did you know the Soviets almost invented the internet 7 years before ARPANET went online? The National Automated System for Computation and Information Processing (abbreviating OGAS) was a Soviet project attempting to create a nationwide linked information network that began in 1962 but got funding denied in 1970 and the idea was abandoned because the second the Soviet government had in its possession the means to actually optimize their centrally planned economy and make socialism work in a way much closer to how it was intended to work, they promptly lost all interest in the idea and abandoned the system because: lmao the Soviets never got over the concept of ownership because they were too busy owning themselves
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Jun 30, 2023 01:59
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the popes toes posted:Nothing like cluster munitions to prepare trench assaults. Those may be just as impactful as ATACMS, if they get those. https://youtu.be/Ipr_hPAcR_Q Don't forget dpicm atacms
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Jun 30, 2023 02:00
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Pine Cone Jones posted:https://youtu.be/Ipr_hPAcR_Q this calls out M74 bomblets so I guess my link above is out of date and it's purely fragmentation now? either way, terrifying
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Jun 30, 2023 02:06
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Could cluster munitions also serve as a makeshift mine clearance tool?
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Jun 30, 2023 03:12
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OAquinas posted:Could cluster munitions also serve as a makeshift mine clearance tool? Yeah my first thought as well since mine clearing was just called out as a pretty huge issue for Ukraine. Makes sense that loads of little bomb would set off other bomb.
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Jun 30, 2023 03:18
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Seems like a great way to randomly clear 80% of the mines in front of you.
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Jun 30, 2023 03:28
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Like what I would presume is a lot of people, I've only heard horrible things about cluster munitions. They seem like an okay defensive weapon, though? Like, when your targets are 100% military? Like a trench? I really want to understand this and I know very little about it.
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Jun 30, 2023 03:41
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parthenocarpy posted:Like what I would presume is a lot of people, I've only heard horrible things about cluster munitions. They seem like an okay defensive weapon, though? Like, when your targets are 100% military? Like a trench? I really want to understand this and I know very little about it. Cluster munitions are horrifying. I'm not saying they wouldn't be helpful in mine clearing but they are absolutely horrifying weapons.
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Jun 30, 2023 03:42
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parthenocarpy posted:Like what I would presume is a lot of people, I've only heard horrible things about cluster munitions. They seem like an okay defensive weapon, though? Like, when your targets are 100% military? Like a trench? I really want to understand this and I know very little about it. the problems with them are problems however they're used - leaving small munitions more likely to be disturbed unnoticed, etc. The US chose to stop using them (for example developing the M30A1 for the HIMARS which is the tungsten shotgun thing, because those pellets are inert) for a reason. They can be quite effective, though I'd be getting out over my skis if I started talking about how they are best applied. By the same token as the above many countries invented them for a reason.
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Jun 30, 2023 03:46
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parthenocarpy posted:Like what I would presume is a lot of people, I've only heard horrible things about cluster munitions. They seem like an okay defensive weapon, though? Like, when your targets are 100% military? Like a trench? I really want to understand this and I know very little about it. The Bad Thing about cluster munitions is the dud rate. Not only are there flaws in any manufacturing process, the detonators can't be too sensitive or air buffeting on the way down will set them off. For munitions of that size, hitting the ground isn't that much lighter than the forces in the air, especially when the ground they're hitting has been disturbed by other explosions. This creates what amounts to an unmarked and untraceable anti-personnel minefield. This is the entire reason for the Ottawa Convention. For any military purpose, they're ludicrously effective.
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Jun 30, 2023 03:46
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let's replace a minefield with a much deadlier, and also harder to clear, minefield.
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Jun 30, 2023 03:50
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WAR CRIME GIGOLO posted:Cluster munitions are horrifying. I'm not saying they wouldn't be helpful in mine clearing but they are absolutely horrifying weapons. Given they clear out anything/anyone close that could prevent de-mining ops, I'd say they can be helpful.
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Jun 30, 2023 03:53
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Runa posted:let's replace a minefield with a much deadlier, and also harder to clear, minefield. deadlier to personnel. if it lets me get through a minefield obstacle with however many vehicles I want at a place of my choosing in exchange for a later tedious and difficult but not-under-fire demining effort, uh, deal. e: assuming they're even used this way, I really don't know, but I would make that trade.
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Jun 30, 2023 03:54
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would something like this clear out cluster munitions from a field? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lu6GV8BQwJs
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Jun 30, 2023 03:57
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In this war, at least for Ukraine's use of mines, they have a good record of the battlefield allowing mine removal to be deliberate on their part. And they'll have a sufficient de-mining budget. And the US is the largest funder of these sort of operations, worldwide. Plus the US has already committed a 100 strong team for mine removal when this ends.
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Jun 30, 2023 04:02
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parthenocarpy posted:would something like this clear out cluster munitions from a field? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lu6GV8BQwJs Ukraine has military versions of this - the problem is the Russians keep hitting them with anti tank weapons.
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Jun 30, 2023 04:03
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If Russia hadn't invaded there wouldn't be a need for cluster munitions, but as long as they're being offered, might as well take them to liquidate entire trenchlines at a time.
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Jun 30, 2023 04:11
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parthenocarpy posted:would something like this clear out cluster munitions from a field? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lu6GV8BQwJs Remote vehicles are indeed a solution, though they come with their own issues with cost, lack of precision, and potential communications issues if you're in a non-permissive environment. For others you only have enough time and resources to throw a bunch of sandbags on the crew cabin of a front-end loader and go to town. "How to get rid of a fuckton of unexploded bomblets from an important area" has been a huge concern for governments/militaries since at least the Cold War.
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Jun 30, 2023 04:42
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there's lots of OPTIONS for handling cluster munitions but you can say the same thing about a minefield. what never changes in either context is that it's brutal, dangerous work that can never conclusively be proven to be done completely and correctly. you will always leave the work site wondering if you're gonna hear about some kid having their leg blown off 9 months from now.
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Jun 30, 2023 04:59
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To put this in context, people in France and Belgium are still dying every year (particularly around plowing season) to unexploded munitions from World War 1
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Jun 30, 2023 05:02
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Russia circulated a letter in the UN Security Council that it does not plan to blow up Zaporizhzhia Nuclear Power Plant Soooo what does it mean? Doe it mean negotiations are soon? Or that they are about to blow up the power plant? I mean it's a 50/50 that it's good or bad with Russia.
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Jun 30, 2023 05:18
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This makes me more concerned that they're planning to blow up the power plant.
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Jun 30, 2023 05:21
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Gigolo come on man. You've been in this long enough that you should know by now that you should take the exact opposite meaning from whatever Russia says officially. if they say they don't plan to blow it up, well, Ukraine's response: https://kyivindependent.com/ukrainian-authorities-start-training-to-prepare-for-possible-russian-attack-on-zaporizhzhia-nuclear-plant/ In other news: GENERAL COPEGEDDON WAS A SECRET WAGNER MEMBER LMAO https://www.cnn.com/europe/live-news/russia-ukraine-war-news-06-29-23/h_f3cb66107686a173d74307a8cb8775b8 quote:Documents shared exclusively with CNN suggest that Russian Gen. Sergey Surovikin was a secret VIP member of the Wagner private military company. VIP MEMBER LMAO
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Jun 30, 2023 05:22
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HonorableTB posted:To put this in context, people in France and Belgium are still dying every year (particularly around plowing season) to unexploded munitions from World War 1 Have they tried more cluster munitions?
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Jun 30, 2023 05:28
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WAR CRIME GIGOLO posted:Doe it mean negotiations are soon? Or that they are about to blow up the power plant? It means its time to take careful inventory of your most incriminating single boots
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Jun 30, 2023 05:29
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