|
Elden Lord Godfrey posted:It has been speculated that the elden ring power stance animations were implemented relatively late in development, without much thought to how they would compare to each other or to the normal r1 moveset. So many power stance movesets are objectively better. Standouts are spears, straight swords. They are just as if not faster than normal movesets, and have the normal length recovery. Then there are ones you’d think are good, like daggers, which are in fact bad because they lock you into an animation for too long. Also, once again, what kind of balance are we talking about? Were there actually OP PvP builds because of powerstancing being too good? I only ever heard complaints about katanas (as usual), especially the rivers of blood one. FishMcCool posted:Might be Forlorn, who has multiple spawn points and two variants (GS and scythe). Some spawn points are guaranteed, some are RNG. Forlorn has probably killed more DS2 speedruns/challenge runs than gravity. Other NPC invaders always spawn, though sometimes with weird rules attached (like the Woodland children). John Murdoch posted:Invasions are always on by default, has nothing to do with your humanity status. Serephina posted:Oh that's a good question, what triggers the NPC invasions? There's one guy in the misty jungle ruins who is really erratic about when he shows up, and I owe him a favor. 2) Was that Lucille? If so, she's an NPC, and it's actually part of her and another NPC's questline to summon them three times each for bosses (with them surviving). Not terribly important, just in case you're wondering how to progress their quest (you can't after a certain point, tho you can refresh bosses with Effigies and try to have them assist on the NG+ versions) 3) Not sure what the salamanders have to do with the trailers, but would you be surprised if I told you that, in a certified DS2 moment, you can actually get down there right away? And also more "normally" later
|
#
?
Jun 30, 2023 12:39
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 10, 2024 07:31 |
|
|
Simply Simon posted:Also, it was recently found that you cannot (or at least it's SUPER unlikely) actually get invaded by a human again until you invade somebody yourself, or use Dried Fingers. So getting invaded gives you a timeout where you can't get invaded for the next X minutes, and lowers your priority for invasions so you are less likely to be picked. IIRC going human increases your priority somewhat, coop and invading increases it a lot, and dried fingers both maxes your priority and removes any timeouts. But I admit I could be getting details mixed up with other games edit: one major point here, is since everyone can be invaded, getting invaded and becoming hollow lowers your priority enough that you are basically never going to get picked again until you change zones BadMedic fucked around with this message at 12:56 on Jun 30, 2023 |
|
#
?
Jun 30, 2023 12:54
|
|
|
Catgirl Al Capone posted:ive never had a player invader actually try to kill me in DS2 they just point out a shortcut i missed or something and then roll off a cliff I will 100% make a mental model of the host I've invaded, work out if they need help opening the nearest hidden shortcut/bonfire, celebrate with pumped up emotes, then immediately murder them. Simply Simon posted:That's a much better answer - I only ever powerstanced daggers and twinblades in ER, and those seemed fine to bad. In DS2, apart from the stat requirements, you have the drawbacks of having to wield two weapons (often heavier than shields), having to upgrade them both, the powerstance animations are often slower, consume a lot more stamina...you have to know when it's worth using them and with what weapon classes. I always thought that the stat requirements were stupid especially for weapons like the Bone Fist which require 30 dex for some reason, and welcomed ER removing the requirement. The best PS attacks are the ones that come out simultaneously, anything else locks you in an animation for too long that you'd get punished. Hence why PS spears, straight swords, curved swords and greatspears are so popular. PS Spears are particularly braindead, you can literally mash L1 through everything, with excellent range and speed. So ER PS Katanas aren't that great, they have a good rolling and jumping L1s, but neutral and running L1s come out staggered that if the enemy rolls in the correct direction neither of the attacks will hit, while leaving you open to a recovery punish. RoB has been so heavily nerfed that it's hardly viable these days. Meanwhile, in DS2, PS attacks require alot of consideration. You could rush for PS mace and craftsman's hammer super early on, but it's in reality a trap option because it costs so many stats.
|
|
#
?
Jun 30, 2023 12:54
|
|
|
Simply Simon posted:Were there actually OP PvP builds because of powerstancing being too good? Well, duh! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3IiQ1H4kxNQ
|
|
#
?
Jun 30, 2023 13:01
|
|
|
Lmao, also the damage on that Ladle haha
|
|
#
?
Jun 30, 2023 13:38
|
|
|
My man that's just a parry build with extra steps.
|
|
#
?
Jun 30, 2023 13:40
|
|
|
Anyway, powerstancing in DS2 is kinda underpowered. It's just too stamina-expensive and too risky. Like all Souls games, the best attacks come out fast and have a fast recovery, PS-ing lacks that. There is one scenario where PS-ing is viable, and that is a bug: the so-called "quick attack". Where if you are in power-stanced mode, you do an attack, then de-activate your power stance within a tight timing window, and the attack you started committing towards comes out lightning fast. It's near unreactable.
|
|
#
?
Jun 30, 2023 13:46
|
|
|
Elden Lord Godfrey posted:My man that's just a parry build with extra steps. But those extra steps are the spice that transform a boring tryhard parry build into a thing of beauty featuring a fat-rolling naked man with a ladle. 
|
|
#
?
Jun 30, 2023 13:47
|
|
|
None of those disadvantages apply to ps caestus 
|
|
#
?
Jun 30, 2023 15:37
|
|
|
Son of Thunderbeast posted:None of those disadvantages apply to ps caestus I didn't want to sound like a broken record but yeah Perfect build
|
|
#
?
Jun 30, 2023 15:42
|
|
|
Son of Thunderbeast posted:None of those disadvantages apply to ps caestus I did a Return to Drangleic as Muhammad Aldi. Had to finish it offline sadly, as that was the year the event got cut short by the multiplayer exploit. 
|
|
#
?
Jun 30, 2023 15:53
|
|
|
Elden Lord Godfrey posted:Anyway, powerstancing in DS2 is kinda underpowered. It's just too stamina-expensive and too risky. Like all Souls games, the best attacks come out fast and have a fast recovery, PS-ing lacks that. There is one scenario where PS-ing is viable, and that is a bug: the so-called "quick attack". Where if you are in power-stanced mode, you do an attack, then de-activate your power stance within a tight timing window, and the attack you started committing towards comes out lightning fast. It's near unreactable. Can’t hear you over the sound of how cool powerstancing is
|
|
#
?
Jun 30, 2023 16:13
|
|
|
Simply Simon posted:Also, it was recently found that you cannot (or at least it's SUPER unlikely) actually get invaded by a human again until you invade somebody yourself, or use Dried Fingers. So for many, many people you get invaded once and that's it. I do know that I was in Covenant of Champions at launch for quite a while until I realized that I was heavily screwing myself with it, because it promised "an arduous path" (I figured I'd get invaded more often!) and I wanted to get invaded more often, but that doesn't actually help! You also have to invade yourself! This can't be true. I was invaded by the same player like ~35 mins apart in Shulva (died both times) and I've never invaded anyone. This was in SotFS so maybe vanilla game is different? Overall, I'm pretty conflicted on the invasion mechanics in SotFS. As someone that always avoided invasions in DeS and DS1 by not becoming human, I dreaded getting invaded constantly when I first started SotFS. But then I noticed I wasn't getting invaded at all until maybe like mid-game. And then I would actually survive and kill a few invaders! That was always a rush so I started feeling pretty good about invasions and even considered getting into pvp at some point. But now I'm in tackling the DLCs and getting invaded pretty regularly by players fully spec'd for pvp and that's not fun for me. So now I just burn human effigies or play offline if I'm running through an area to clear out enemies for a runback to a boss (Sir Alonne/Blue Smelter Demon runbacks, ugh).
|
|
#
?
Jun 30, 2023 16:15
|
|
|
Man With Scissor posted:This can't be true. I was invaded by the same player like ~35 mins apart in Shulva (died both times) and I've never invaded anyone. This was in SotFS so maybe vanilla game is different? Back when the game was newer, unless you got really unlucky you'd basically never get invaded. Now, though, you're probably one of the only invasion targets, so you probably do get invaded a lot more than you should be.
|
|
#
?
Jun 30, 2023 16:19
|
|
|
In my first playthrough, I thought "Armourer Dennis" was a player bullying me so hard I ended up quitting and relaunching offline to finally get across that bridge. And of course: "Invaded by Armourer Dennis" 
|
|
#
?
Jun 30, 2023 16:27
|
|
|
FishMcCool posted:In my first playthrough, I thought "Armourer Dennis" was a player bullying me so hard I ended up quitting and relaunching offline to finally get across that bridge. And of course: Somewhere in the world Miyazaki is laughing
|
|
#
?
Jun 30, 2023 16:29
|
|
|
I love the bellkeeper covenant because it's both a fairly steady stream of pvp combat, and it's a good earlygame source of large shards and chunks so you can +9-+10 your powerstance caestus before even reaching Sinner's Rise
|
|
#
?
Jun 30, 2023 16:38
|
|
|
On the topic of invaders, I'm stuck on the pathway to sir alonne at this bit where I get invaded by like four identical "prowler" npcs simultaneously in a really tight space. They just tank through my claymore and stunlock me to death because, well, there's four of them and no space to dodge. What am I meant to do about this?
|
|
#
?
Jul 1, 2023 00:41
|
|
|
Man With Scissor posted:Overall, I'm pretty conflicted on the invasion mechanics in SotFS. As someone that always avoided invasions in DeS and DS1 by not becoming human, I dreaded getting invaded constantly when I first started SotFS. But then I noticed I wasn't getting invaded at all until maybe like mid-game. And then I would actually survive and kill a few invaders! That was always a rush so I started feeling pretty good about invasions and even considered getting into pvp at some point. But now I'm in tackling the DLCs and getting invaded pretty regularly by players fully spec'd for pvp and that's not fun for me. So now I just burn human effigies or play offline if I'm running through an area to clear out enemies for a runback to a boss (Sir Alonne/Blue Smelter Demon runbacks, ugh). My least favorite part of Return a few years back was being repeatedly invaded in the co-op lobbies at the start of the co-op gauntlets in Shulva and Brume. Just a really dumb place to allow invasions. Archenteron posted:I love the bellkeeper covenant because it's both a fairly steady stream of pvp combat, and it's a good earlygame source of large shards and chunks so you can +9-+10 your powerstance caestus before even reaching Sinner's Rise  Crazy Achmed posted:On the topic of invaders, I'm stuck on the pathway to sir alonne at this bit where I get invaded by like four identical "prowler" npcs simultaneously in a really tight space. They just tank through my claymore and stunlock me to death because, well, there's four of them and no space to dodge. What am I meant to do about this? You can try baiting them down towards the balcony and/or rush past them and use the circular room with Alonne's amor. Might even be able to tag the bonfire. At least in my experience, as long as you don't passively let them all clump up and enter melee their AI is fairly limited. Though I think they do have bows as well.
|
|
#
?
Jul 1, 2023 01:01
|
|
|
Archenteron posted:I love the bellkeeper covenant because it's both a fairly steady stream of pvp combat, and it's a good earlygame source of large shards and chunks so you can +9-+10 your powerstance caestus before even reaching Sinner's Rise Bellkeepers is the only point I've ever dedicated any amount of time to PVP in these games, and it was a loving blast. Just me, a longsword, and Force trying to hold people with connections of wildly varying quality off for hours and hours.
|
|
#
?
Jul 1, 2023 01:26
|
|
|
Q regarding power stance and stuff: A) Is there more to it than just "total sacrifice of defense for a 30% boost in dps while dumping stamina"? That's been my extremely noobie experience so far, it doesn't really seem to stunlock better, and has worse damage-per-combo due to the stamina costs when you do stunlock. I'm at the point where I might consider adding in bleed or poison effects since I can afford them now, but I'm skeptical that either will help much with power stance - like, does it technically hit multiple times so you get multiple bleed procs? And that's totally aside from the raw dps loss of using oddball weapons PvE. Other mechanical Q: in DSR, I just found some stone armour very early on which was both endgame stuff and unenchantable, so I kinda ignored armour enchanting (and everyone told me not to, anyways). Is that any different in DS2? Also if I'm playing with 0 poise, is there any point in trying to raise the puny defense stat or should I just go for fashion and elemental resistances? (and there's some eldritch stuff about stat scaling armour, idgi) edit: I'm also reading up on poise, and uh, I hope it's different PvE sine that's a crazy amount of info and all I'm getting from this is "heavy armour or nothing". Serephina fucked around with this message at 04:44 on Jul 1, 2023 |
|
#
?
Jul 1, 2023 04:28
|
|
|
Physical defenses in DS2 are flat damage reduction, which makes them good against weak poo poo like generic Hollows and barely noticeable against bosses. Elemental resists are % damage reduction, so upgrading a shield or a set of armor can be a good idea if they have significant elemental resists to something you're struggling with, but armor upgrades are generally a "when you get around to it" deal. You can mostly pick what you want for fashion, though there are a few armor pieces - mostly cowls and crowns - that provide solid passive effects that can be worth it to wear. The way Poise works in DS2 is actually nearly identical to DS1, but with the caveat that it regenerates at a snail's pace compared to the first game, meaning that you can't back off and wait for your Poise meter to regen like you could in the first game. It's not as gamebreaking as it was in DS1, but a good amount of Poise lets you deal more reliably with weaker enemies like Manikins that are otherwise a pain in the rear end to fight with slower weapons.
|
|
#
?
Jul 1, 2023 05:32
|
|
|
Since everything apart from slabs in eventually in infinite supply, I always upgrade my armour to +9 because why not? Unless you're rolling like a pro and never get hit, it'll make the difference here and there between being on a sliver of health and being able to crack lifegems or being dead and running back in.
|
|
#
?
Jul 1, 2023 06:42
|
|
|
Serephina posted:Q regarding power stance and stuff: A) Is there more to it than just "total sacrifice of defense for a 30% boost in dps while dumping stamina"? That's been my extremely noobie experience so far, it doesn't really seem to stunlock better, and has worse damage-per-combo due to the stamina costs when you do stunlock. I'm at the point where I might consider adding in bleed or poison effects since I can afford them now, but I'm skeptical that either will help much with power stance - like, does it technically hit multiple times so you get multiple bleed procs? And that's totally aside from the raw dps loss of using oddball weapons PvE. Yeah, each hit will apply status effects so more hits means more buildup. Also you can still dodge and wear armor so you're not totally sacrificing your defenses.
|
|
#
?
Jul 1, 2023 07:32
|
|
|
I found when fighting Fume Knight (which was the only fight I did enough times to try basically every combination) that two handing a katana was better overall than powerstancing two katanas. More dps than one handing, less weight, and faster attacks (?) than powerstancing
|
|
#
?
Jul 1, 2023 07:41
|
|
|
Powerstance is mostly a gimmick in ds2, but sometimes it has its uses. Rapier+curved sword or straight sword gives you sweeping slashes with good horizontal coverage, even if you’re still better off with single rapier (two-handed or with a shield) for bosses. It’s great with the caestus, and off-hand blue flame is another really fun option for magic builds.
|
|
#
?
Jul 1, 2023 08:48
|
|
|
If you're primarily using a shield for damage mitigation, poise isn't all that important to prioritize. I can't speak to specific numbers but having some could still prove useful if for whatever reason you can't turtle up but it mostly exists to give tankier builds more immovability and prevent big slow weapon swings from being canceled.
|
|
#
?
Jul 1, 2023 10:53
|
|
|
Well I've been powerstancing my Shortswords for bosses and it's been going great, only pulling out a Katana when I'm forced to use my offhand for shields or torches. Been loving the Dex build now that it's taken off, I mostly shoot stuff with my bow and am surprised how hard it hits, and have the option to swap to different melee styles. The upgrade paths are much more affordable in DS2, the swords are +8 and the bow is +10, and I don't feel like I've given anything up for committing to upgrades so early. I also, really, *really* appreciate that I can swing weapons I don't have the stats for, just to test their animations; I saw a twin-blade and am biding my time until I can afford to get some Str to weild it, seems so zany. That, those claws, etc, it's great to finally feel like I have options, especially after I feel I was kinda railroaded in DSR once I committed to upgrading something.
|
|
#
?
Jul 1, 2023 14:29
|
|
|
One of the old speedrun strategies used powerstanced Maces for a good chunk of the game because it could stunlock several bosses
|
|
#
?
Jul 1, 2023 17:09
|
|
|
Yeah dual maces lets you play Ruin Sentinels like a drum solo
|
|
#
?
Jul 1, 2023 17:10
|
|
|
Serephina posted:Well I've been powerstancing my Shortswords for bosses and it's been going great, only pulling out a Katana when I'm forced to use my offhand for shields or torches.
|
|
#
?
Jul 1, 2023 20:45
|
|
|
skasion posted:Yeah dual maces lets you play Ruin Sentinels like a drum solo more like ruin the sentinels
|
|
#
?
Jul 1, 2023 20:56
|
|
|
FishMcCool posted:Since everything apart from slabs in eventually in infinite supply, I always upgrade my armour to +9 because why not? Unless you're rolling like a pro and never get hit, it'll make the difference here and there between being on a sliver of health and being able to crack lifegems or being dead and running back in.
|
|
#
?
Jul 2, 2023 01:44
|
|
|
Serephina posted:Well I've been powerstancing my Shortswords for bosses and it's been going great, only pulling out a Katana when I'm forced to use my offhand for shields or torches. The Red Iron twinblade in particular is very good.
|
|
#
?
Jul 2, 2023 01:49
|
|
|
FishMcCool posted:In my first playthrough, I thought "Armourer Dennis" was a player bullying me so hard I ended up quitting and relaunching offline to finally get across that bridge. And of course: Lol. I burnt an effigy in the Black Gulch my first time through because some rear end online called "The Forlorn" kept invading me. Couldn't figure why that didn't work for a bit...
|
|
#
?
Jul 2, 2023 14:42
|
|
|
I really wanted to make a psn account named Forlorn after my first run of Scholar, just to gently caress with people but of course the name waa already taken
|
|
#
?
Jul 2, 2023 14:56
|
|
|
After blowing a bunch of money getting the Str to wield it and enchanting it up, I have never been so disappointed as I am with this twinblade. After trialing, there where some few shining comedy moments when trash mobs surrounded me and all get gibbed while behind my back, but it feels like it needs a totally different character to properly utilize. Like, armour with real poise so you can afford to wade in to things, or maybe some stoneskin buffs, and either a lot more +dmg or +bleed effects than I own, and oh yea a ton more stamina. So basically not whatever I'm doing, a shame. I also stepped out into a Belfry Gargoyle fight and muttered to myself "not these assholes again".
|
|
#
?
Jul 2, 2023 16:50
|
|
|
At least they're smaller this time! I've actually found the ds2 gargs way easier. I haven't died to them once since my first playthrough Son of Thunderbeast fucked around with this message at 20:39 on Jul 2, 2023 |
|
#
?
Jul 2, 2023 17:09
|
|
|
Somehow on my first playthrough of ds2 which was my first souls game experience, I beat them in one try. Then later I had trouble with them lol. I think I was using the mace. Mace was rly good.
|
|
#
?
Jul 2, 2023 17:11
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 10, 2024 07:31 |
|
|
You could farm the Rotten for a couple of rounds with Ascetics at the hidden bonfire near the bossfog, if you want some extra souls to crank up your dex or whatever.
|
|
#
?
Jul 2, 2023 18:09
|
|