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"We believe in the following the intentions of the founders. Did you ever consider that when the country was founded it was basically legal to kill your wife, because she was your property? Checkmate, libs.  "TheDeadlyShoe posted:suffering whiplash
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Jun 30, 2023 19:04
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TheDeadlyShoe posted:suffering whiplash from the 'why aren't democrats using all levers available to do things?' posts not like last week and the 'actually, using a lever that wasn't guaranteed to work in the long term is evidence it was sabotage the whole time' posts now They should use every lever available to them, and there are even more avenues they could be pursuing than just the HEA. The Department of Education also has wide latitude in setting Income-Driven Repayment plans, for example. There are a lot more mechanisms they could try that they won't try. Getting turned back by the court just eats into the court's legitimacy. An administration that cared about building a movement could use spurious rulings that materially hurt a lot of people as fodder for fueling mass action. It wouldn't matter if you drew an immediate injunction for going down one path or another, those are just more evidence of the court's lawlessness.
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Jun 30, 2023 19:05
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TheDeadlyShoe posted:suffering whiplash from the 'why aren't democrats using all levers available to do things?' posts not like last week and the 'actually, using a lever that wasn't guaranteed to work in the long term is evidence it was sabotage the whole time' posts now I don't really buy the intentional sabotage argument but this isn't the contradiction you think it is; the latter is an answer to the former.
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Jun 30, 2023 19:07
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TheDeadlyShoe posted:suffering whiplash from the 'why aren't democrats using all levers available to do things?' posts not like last week and the 'actually, using a lever that wasn't guaranteed to work in the long term is evidence it was sabotage the whole time' posts now I cannot think of a better real life event to interrupt the overnight argument over conspiratorial views on the left.
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Jun 30, 2023 19:07
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PostNouveau posted:It says it helped proponents win the battle. It's the only thing he notes about his sources say about the battle in the administration. We can keep junking up the thread, but it's not my fault you don't like what his sources are saying about the administration's decision-making. PostNouveau posted:I'm only talking about Matt's lawyer friends in relation to what Matt thinks. I don't really care what they think, only that he accepts their opinions. PostNouveau posted:Biden cut a deal during the debt ceiling talks to end the repayment pause in October. Unclear if that's set legislatively or if he's just going to honor the agreement to keep his word to the GOP.
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Jun 30, 2023 19:08
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PostNouveau posted:They should use every lever available to them, and there are even more avenues they could be pursuing than just the HEA. The Department of Education also has wide latitude in setting Income-Driven Repayment plans, for example. There are a lot more mechanisms they could try that they won't try. This is where I'm more hopeful, because it is certainly possible that they can look into other methods of forgiveness and have indicated their intent to do so. Whether or not it materializes and is unassailable is another and I'm pretty cynical about that part.
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Jun 30, 2023 19:09
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PostNouveau posted:I'd actually guess Biden was the undecided one swayed by the fact that the court would strike it down. It's ultimately his call after all, so it's hard to see how undecided people below him matter all that much. Stop making things up that you want to believe. Biden had already stated in the past multiple times that he doesn't think he has the authority to forgive student loans through executive order (i.e. won't stand up in court): quote:Biden’s direct response — and rejection of a Democratic proposal in Congress to cancel up to $50,000 in student loan debt for borrowers — is not a surprise. For months, Biden has been consistent in his position that he wants Congress to cancel student loans immediately. Biden believes that Congress, not the president through executive action, is the correct branch of government that controls federal spending, which includes any plans for student loan cancellation.
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Jun 30, 2023 19:12
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PostNouveau posted:They should use every lever available to them, and there are even more avenues they could be pursuing than just the HEA. The Department of Education also has wide latitude in setting Income-Driven Repayment plans, for example. There are a lot more mechanisms they could try that they won't try. Fortune posted:Student debt forgiveness is dead, but Biden’s most transformative loan policy is still in play: ‘Paying off college debt is going to be substantially easier’ Mellow Seas fucked around with this message at 19:16 on Jun 30, 2023 |
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Jun 30, 2023 19:12
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Baronash posted:What his source says is a pretty bog standard process story. The only issue I have is with your continued use of this one tweet to draw absolutely unsubstantiated conclusions. I've already responded to this, you're just trashing up the thread to be obstinate at this point. That tweet supports my statement right before it "He did this because they knew it wouldn't survive a court challenge." You're just bolding a random statement elsewhere in the post. I'll try to be more free with the paragraph breaks next time, OK? Professor Beetus posted:This is where I'm more hopeful, because it is certainly possible that they can look into other methods of forgiveness and have indicated their intent to do so. Whether or not it materializes and is unassailable is another and I'm pretty cynical about that part. I don't think they have an interest in the mass politics part of the equation. I'd feel better about their motives if they started pursuing every angle. But I think they'd probably give up as soon as the injunctions hit. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jun 30, 2023 19:14
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Mellow Seas posted:The administration is working on new and more generous repayment plans and is likely to do so with even more gusto now that this decision has been handed down. We'll see what they come up with. I have seen them talk about this, but I want a plan in my hand before I give them any credit. Also, it's not going to be zero. If they think they have the authority to reduce repayment times and rates, then they could make repayment rates 0.01% of discretionary income and the repayment period one month. Also you can get around paywalls pretty easy with archive.ph: https://archive.ph/F0KSu I've never used 12-foot ladder, but archive.ph is a breeze. PostNouveau fucked around with this message at 19:21 on Jun 30, 2023 |
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Jun 30, 2023 19:17
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TheDeadlyShoe posted:the radioactive roads are just an insane idea. I'm sure they could be made relatively safely in the short term, but in the long term they're probably guaranteed to have some lovely interaction or effect. Not really, no. At least not when compared to the fly ash they already use.
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Jun 30, 2023 19:18
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TheDeadlyShoe posted:suffering whiplash from the 'why aren't democrats using all levers available to do things?' posts like last week and the 'actually, using a lever that wasn't guaranteed to work in the long term is evidence it was sabotage the whole time' posts now The lever they pulled was attached to a Fisher-Price toy that expressly does nothing except make a delightful clicking sound, and this was known well ahead of time.
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Jun 30, 2023 19:22
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PostNouveau posted:I've already responded to this, you're just trashing up the thread to be obstinate at this point. That tweet supports my statement right before it "He did this because they knew it wouldn't survive a court challenge." You're just bolding a random statement elsewhere in the post. I'll try to be more free with the paragraph breaks next time, OK? I think one of the advantages to not throwing everything at the wall at once is that you can actually get concrete opposition pinned down, and attack in ways that get around those objections, and see if the court or legislators are willing to contradict themselves in the process. Again, cynical enough to think it likely won't work, because the court has repeatedly shown the ability to twist itself into rhetorical pretzels to do this (Scalia all time MVP at this).
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Jun 30, 2023 19:23
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Professor Beetus posted:I think one of the advantages to not throwing everything at the wall at once is that you can actually get concrete opposition pinned down, and attack in ways that get around those objections, and see if the court or legislators are willing to contradict themselves in the process. Again, cynical enough to think it likely won't work, because the court has repeatedly shown the ability to twist itself into rhetorical pretzels to do this (Scalia all time MVP at this). It's just very slow to not throw everything at the wall, though. If they try the HEA route, Trump could be president again and drop the case before it actually gets to the high court. I don't think anyone who will put up objections will have any problem pivoting to something contradictory. I don't think you really gain much by pinning down the opposition. Voters won't care for sure.
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Jun 30, 2023 19:26
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Adenoid Dan posted:Not really, no. At least not when compared to the fly ash they already use. My "This is fundamentally NOOKS! panic" meter went up a lot when I learned the primary radiation being discussed was radon from uranium/thorium decay, outdoors, on a highway, but the reading on my "DeSantis corruption bullshit" meter"means I really won't object to strict scrutiny of it either.
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Jun 30, 2023 19:31
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I'm never opposed to strict scrutiny of things like this, of course. I just wish the people writing about these things would talk to both engineers who can talk about what is common practice, and environmental/medical scientists who can quantify the risk.
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Jun 30, 2023 19:36
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PostNouveau posted:I've already responded to this, you're just trashing up the thread to be obstinate at this point. That tweet supports my statement right before it "He did this because they knew it wouldn't survive a court challenge." It absolutely does not. All that tweet supports is "some administration officials thought forgiveness would fail." Everything else you've posted is just vibes, made clear by posts like this: PostNouveau posted:I'd actually guess Biden was the undecided one swayed by the fact that the court would strike it down. It's ultimately his call after all, so it's hard to see how undecided people below him matter all that much.
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Jun 30, 2023 19:43
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PostNouveau posted:They should use every lever available to them, and there are even more avenues they could be pursuing than just the HEA. The Department of Education also has wide latitude in setting Income-Driven Repayment plans, for example. There are a lot more mechanisms they could try that they won't try. If the best example of Supreme Court "lawlessness" we can find is a ruling saying that major changes should be passed into law by our duly elected legislature instead of being loopholed into existence by an executive branch desperately looking for wards to circumvent Congress, then that's probably an utterly hopeless avenue for "fueling mass action". Though student loan forgiveness is also unlikely to be a particularly good issue for driving mass action in the first place, because while a majority of Americans support making college more affordable in general, loan forgiveness in particular fares much worse in polls. Only 47% of Americans support limited loan forgiveness, and the support drops further as the limits loosen, down to just 29% supporting total loan forgiveness with zero means-testing.
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Jun 30, 2023 19:57
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Professor Beetus posted:This is where I'm more hopeful, because it is certainly possible that they can look into other methods of forgiveness and have indicated their intent to do so. Whether or not it materializes and is unassailable is another and I'm pretty cynical about that part. I think the court will try to discover other reasons you can't forgive student debt when the GOP almost certainly loses congress next year.
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Jun 30, 2023 20:15
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PostNouveau posted:I don't know why they even bother anymore. Roberts actually thinks they have any legitimacy left to salvage? Sure he does, as do most Democrats including pretty much all elected Democrats. Otherwise they'd pack the Court and be done with it. "Faith in SCOTUS" is probably going up these days as fascists turn away from hating the "activist" court that granted gay marriage and upheld the ACA and embrace a white nationalist / theocratic one that will give them substantive wins for at least another decade. FLIPADELPHIA fucked around with this message at 20:40 on Jun 30, 2023 |
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Jun 30, 2023 20:37
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FLIPADELPHIA posted:Sure he does, as do most Democrats including pretty much all elected Democrats. Otherwise they'd pack the Court and be done with it. "Faith in SCOTUS" is probably going up these days as fascists turn away from hating the "activist" court that granted gay marriage and upheld the ACA and embrace a white nationalist / theocratic one that will give them substantive wins for at least another decade. It’s the opposite, approval of the court is at the lowest it has been since 2000. https://news.gallup.com/poll/4732/supreme-court.aspx
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Jun 30, 2023 20:45
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By "these days" I mean in the last year or so. The last data point from your link is almost a year old and shows no real change since 2021 prior to that. Let's not pretend it's currently plummeting based on that data. I'm willing to bet it's levelled off at worst. Fascists love nothing more than to throw their hypocrisy in liberals' faces and dare them to do something about it. E: I may be totally wrong, just hazarding a guess based on my seething hatred of most Americans. FLIPADELPHIA fucked around with this message at 20:57 on Jun 30, 2023 |
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Jun 30, 2023 20:54
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FLIPADELPHIA posted:Sure he does, as do most Democrats including pretty much all elected Democrats. Otherwise they'd pack the Court and be done with it. "Faith in SCOTUS" is probably going up these days as fascists turn away from hating the "activist" court that granted gay marriage and upheld the ACA and embrace a white nationalist / theocratic one that will give them substantive wins for at least another decade. I can't speak for the Democratic voters in your heart, but as of last fall the ones that answered polls were overwhelmingly for court packing, enough to make it a majority of the general population. https://news.yahoo.com/poll-slim-majority-of-americans-support-expanding-supreme-court-as-confidence-wanes-194217399.html As for elected Democrats, Biden's still against it, and I don't believe the theory that he's playing 11th dimensional chess with this court issue any more than the other one, but even back to the 2020 primary I think him and Bernie were the only major candidates against it. Others were in favor, and court packing legislation was literally introduced last month. It's not going to happen with a Republican house even if they broke out the mind control rays on Manchin and Sinema, so at best it's a "would he veto it in 2023?" question.
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Jun 30, 2023 21:09
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he's going to try debt forgiveness again under the higher education act (remains to be seen if that also gets the same "major questions doctrine major questions doctrine major questions doctrine 6-3 get owned" today's attempt did) and also 12 months without threat of default or hurt credit if you miss a payment
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Jun 30, 2023 21:18
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I'm too smoothbrained rn could someone explain what loan forgiveness involving the higher education act entails? I've been saving up money to just jam into my loans when forbearance ends but would this plan B make it so that I should just keep my money?
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Jun 30, 2023 22:00
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Digamma-F-Wau posted:I'm too smoothbrained rn could someone explain what loan forgiveness involving the higher education act entails? I've been saving up money to just jam into my loans when forbearance ends but would this plan B make it so that I should just keep my money? It's the same as the first loan forgiveness attempt, except that it'll take much longer because it's a more involved process with more hoops to jump through. It'll probably take months to even get to the point where conservatives can file lawsuits against it, which will almost certainly go right back up to the Supreme Court.
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Jun 30, 2023 22:06
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I for one am shocked that the unelected law priests have dropped a bunch of horrible decisions on the Friday before a holiday weekend.
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Jun 30, 2023 22:10
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This response from Biden at least pays lip service to an attempt to continue pushing forward with debt relief, and came out pretty quickly after the decision. https://twitter.com/POTUS/status/1674873607682441218?t=n_IiFya5-4Qmp4dL9nuN2g&s=19 https://twitter.com/POTUS/status/1674873609288916992?t=egr6hjIoceQLRB_B5SYKMg&s=19
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Jun 30, 2023 22:32
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Man I just don't understand why more and more people are cutting off contact with their conservative relatives, I just can't fathom it. Must be the wokeness, or the video games, or the woke video games.
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Jun 30, 2023 22:32
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Holy lol “Chief Justice Roberts declared that the administration’s logic — that the secretary of education’s power to “waive or modify” loan terms allowed for debt cancellation — was a vast overreach. “In the same sense that the French Revolution ‘modified’ the status of the French nobility,” he wrote, quoting a previous court decision.”
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Jun 30, 2023 22:37
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I stand corrected on the % of Democrats who support court packing. But maybe I can be forgiven because very few if any notable dem politicians have talked about it in the wake of this avalanche of dogshit, openly partisan, precedent-ignoring decisions that has been going on for almost 2 years.
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Jun 30, 2023 22:39
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Bar Ran Dun posted:Holy lol Well at least the French Revolution is on his mind; he should be thinking about it a lot more and also whether he would be considered nobility or not.
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Jun 30, 2023 22:42
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Professor Beetus posted:Well at least the French Revolution is on his mind; he should be thinking about it a lot more and also whether he would be considered nobility or not. That an an elected body stripped the nobility of titles not an executive. He’s looking to rather specific libertarian thought rooted in French monarchism for this poo poo, it’s a real goddamn.
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Jun 30, 2023 22:50
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Bar Ran Dun posted:That an an elected body stripped the nobility of titles not an executive. He’s looking to rather specific libertarian thought rooted in French monarchism for this poo poo, it’s a real goddamn. Yeah, and it's especially hilarious given who inspired the French to overthrow its monarchy.
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Jun 30, 2023 23:06
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I know this is outside of the scope of this thread but does anyone have a good (sane) explainer on CA AB 957? /Derail
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Jun 30, 2023 23:42
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cr0y posted:I know this is outside of the scope of this thread but does anyone have a good (sane) explainer on CA AB 957? Per the legislative analysis, which the leg's website helpfully prevents direct linking to: quote:This bill: Basically says that if the parent of a trans child refuses to affirm their gender identity, it weighs against them with respect to custody. It should sail through.
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Jul 1, 2023 00:17
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James Garfield posted:Do you think that it would have had a positive effect on average people's lives if House Democrats in February 2021 had spent more time making a youtube video of Republicans voting against a resolution to expel Marjorie Taylor Greene while the West Wing theme crescendos and less time passing ARP? speaking of MT Greene https://www.mediaite.com/politics/mtg-debuts-new-podcast-cover-art-featuring-her-holding-a-gun-in-front-of-the-capitol-building/  A member of congress is using a graphic of themselves armed in front of the US Capitol Building. Totally normal thing in a healthy society for sure. She'll go on Hannity this week to tell us all about it, probably. I wouldn't mind if a little more hay were made about this. Gumball Gumption posted:What is this? This is weird. It's posts on somethingawful.com please develop some perspective because people slagging the Dems on a dead comedy website isn't killing the party. Not supporting local parties? That sure is. As a Floridian I can tell you with complete certainty the Democratic party in this state is DOA and totally ineffectual. I've tried to volunteer for them, attended their local meetings and offered my skills in marketing, graphic design and writing but all they seem to want from me is money and maybe making phone calls. The party is a bad joke, especially at my particular "local level".
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Jul 1, 2023 00:25
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BiggerBoat posted:A member of congress is using a graphic of themselves armed in front of the US Capitol Building. Totally normal thing in a healthy society for sure. She'll go on Hannity this week to tell us all about it, probably. I wouldn't mind if a little more hay were made about this. Honestly nothing new for her really, there was that image ad of her posing with an assault rifle with menacing portraits of The Squad behind her, advertising herself as "The Squad's Worst Nightmare". She's going to end up either getting someone (or more people) killed, or she's going to kill someone herself at this rate. BiggerBoat posted:
Sounds like something that could easily be taken over by enterprising socialists/progressives then, tbh.
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Jul 1, 2023 00:40
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Gumball Gumption posted:With the way rulings have been going I doubt it. They conservatives on the court seem happy to chip away but shy away from really throwing open the gates with any of their rulings. The EPA changes are probably the most radical and nonsensical ruling so far and I think "not enough people will care or understand this" have them cover to feel safe doing it that these cases wouldn't. They want to rock the boat but really really don't want to have you see them do it. Hopefully it will take a while for the ruling to reach the Supreme Court, and hopefully in that time given progressives will find their testicles.
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Jul 1, 2023 00:55
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Biden is dealing with a radical court and instead of reacting radically like, removing loan balances/cancelling them outright and then have the scotus themselves reinstate loans, they did some decorum solution that didn't go anywhere and screwed over millions. it's incredible.
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