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HUGE PUBES A PLUS posted:Imagine a Russian mechanic using their body as a shield as the artillery commanders walk toward that lone T-34, "NO You can't have her, she's the only left!" What's the American equivalent of a T-54? M48? Why would you even have a tank that old in commission? How do they maintain it, surely they haven't manufactured parts for it for decades. I can only imagine countries they sold the tanks to who kept it in commission much longer have post-production parts, ammo and material. This is hurting my brain, but at least it speaks to desperation for russia.
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Jul 1, 2023 04:08
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Google Jeb Bush posted:Why do you think the Ethiopian civil war is getting less coverage and interest? if someone were to make a myanmar/SEA thread I would love to lurk it as well because I know almost nothing about that conflict and don't know where to easily find more other than the occasional news story
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Jul 1, 2023 04:10
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Elyv posted:if someone were to make a myanmar/SEA thread I would love to lurk it as well because I know almost nothing about that conflict and don't know where to easily find more other than the occasional news story Extreme same.
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Jul 1, 2023 04:22
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Huggybear posted:What's the American equivalent of a T-54? M48? Why would you even have a tank that old in commission? How do they maintain it, surely they haven't manufactured parts for it for decades. I can only imagine countries they sold the tanks to who kept it in commission much longer have post-production parts, ammo and material. This is hurting my brain, but at least it speaks to desperation for russia. Probably an M48. Russia/Soviet Union was/is a huge arms exporter and they built 90k+ T-54/T-55, it's the most widely built tank of all time so there are just tons of them floating around and plenty of parts. Lots of other nations still use T-54/T-55 tanks.
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Jul 1, 2023 04:42
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MikeC posted:https://kyivindependent.com/its-a-lottery-how-ukraines-assault-brigade-counterattacks-near-bakhmut/ I'm extremely loving glad that I don't have this job because it sounds like the kind of poo poo the Astra Militarum does
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Jul 1, 2023 06:21
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BillsPhoenix posted:On the surface I completely agree. Anyone in Eastern Europe should have this reaction as well. I know a lot of Americans with Ukrainian heritage and not so many with Ethiopian heritage. There is also the fact that it is a war in Europe, which historically have eventually involved the USA directly. Why the gently caress would we wait around to see what happens when the entirety of the EU are our ostensible allies in NATO / The West and they are being threatened by a lovely belligerent in Russia? The USA has a variety of direct interests in how the war in Ukraine shakes out that simply aren't mirrored in Ethiopia.
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Jul 1, 2023 07:12
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I'm pre-conditioned by propaganda and Hollywood to assume Russians are evil and/or the enemy. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jul 1, 2023 07:38
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Nervous posted:I'm pre-conditioned by propaganda and Hollywood to assume Russians are evil and/or the enemy. I'm pre-conditioned by propaganda to believing that Invading democratic neighboring countries and kidnapping their children with the goal of replacing the population with my own is a net positive for the world
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Jul 1, 2023 07:54
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Nervous posted:I'm pre-conditioned by propaganda and Hollywood to assume Russians are evil and/or the enemy. Same, and I for one. Am glad that that Hollywood and real life coincide in this case.
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Jul 1, 2023 08:12
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Hmm why would anyone care about Ukraine? Hmm yes must be cold war conditioning yes yes. I am very smart.
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Jul 1, 2023 08:28
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Ms Adequate posted:I'm extremely loving glad that I don't have this job because it sounds like the kind of poo poo the Astra Militarum does
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Jul 1, 2023 08:38
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Nervous posted:I'm pre-conditioned by propaganda and Hollywood to assume Russians are evil and/or the enemy. Dude, seriously?
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Jul 1, 2023 08:47
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Ms Adequate posted:I'm extremely loving glad that I don't have this job because it sounds like the kind of poo poo the Astra Militarum does Seeing people move from Harry Potter to Warhammer analogies probably says more about this conflict than a hundred Twitter embeds.
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Jul 1, 2023 08:51
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Nervous posted:I'm pre-conditioned by propaganda and Hollywood to assume Russians are evil and/or the enemy. To me it was the repeated mass murder of civilians, castrated prisoners, heads on stakes, skull goblets and sledgehammers becoming a revered Russian icon. But that's just me.
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Jul 1, 2023 08:57
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Owling Howl posted:To me it was the repeated mass murder of civilians, castrated prisoners, heads on stakes, skull goblets and sledgehammers becoming a revered Russian icon. But that's just me. But have you considered that some of Russia's past imperialism and atrocities occurred under a flag with red touching yellow? That just makes it feel better, I'm told. I'm with what some others have said though. I'm from an area with a lot of families from Ukraine, Poland, Slovakia, and other places who had left in part due to their countries being invaded/occupied/colonized by Russia, Germany, Austria-Hungary, and so on. Some in the Soviet and/or Nazi era, many others before. I spent my teenage years watching the collapse of the Soviet Union and hope for a new path for both its constituent republics and its satellite states. Seeing bad poo poo going down once again is a natural thing to pay attention to. It would probably be an even sharper "oh poo poo, here we go again" if it was Germany getting aggressively revanchist under a nationalist dictator and invading some neighbors, let's be honest. And it's not like people would just shrug if like Poland or Bulgaria suddenly felt the will and strength to try conquering swaths of Eastern Europe. But it's not any of them. It's Russia. Dismissing that as propaganda programming us to see Russia as the villain is absurd because whether that propaganda exists is immaterial compared to what is objectively happening.
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Jul 1, 2023 09:31
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Google Jeb Bush posted:Why do you think the Ethiopian civil war is getting less coverage and interest? There was also a major media blackout for most of the Ethiopian war. Almost no information was allowed to leave the occupied zones to report on.
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Jul 1, 2023 09:34
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You can't have an opinion or support people in a genocidal war of survival unless you actively support everything good everywhere and oppose everything bad, or else your a brainwashed lib conditioned by the CIA Evidence of being a legitimate righteous person is posting about politics 50 times/day
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Jul 1, 2023 09:38
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Brainwashed by Hollywood to think genocide is bad
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Jul 1, 2023 09:54
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BillsPhoenix posted:On the surface I completely agree. Anyone in Eastern Europe should have this reaction as well. the US has significant allies in eastern europe, but that maybe matters more for federal politicians if i had to point to anything it's that ukraine both has a lot of material for a charm offensive (because the russians are brutal and callous) and learned how important it was to conduct one after 2014. comparatively, americans i talked with about the prior invasion usually had no idea it'd happened. current events abroad just usually aren't a concern for most people
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Jul 1, 2023 10:11
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Cold war conditioning definitely makes it easier for westerners to think of Russia as the villain, but in this case they're being mustache-twirlingly villainous by way of randomly flinging missiles at civilians and kidnapping children en masse for no plausible military reason. If you put this poo poo in a JRPG, reviews would complain about it being too over the top.
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Jul 1, 2023 10:15
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People who support Ukraine are Hollywood brained. Now read my argument about how the US is the Evil Empire (from Star Wars) and that therefore any country that opposes it must necessarily be good
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Jul 1, 2023 11:35
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I think one reason why Ukraine gets a lot of emotional involvement while other people who are being victimized but are definitely in the right less so is that we feel that Ukraine is something with a happy ending. Take the Uyghur in China. I think most people agree that what is happening to them is horrifying. But it doesn't feel like this is something where really getting emotionally invested is mostly going to lead to heartbreak. Ukraine seems to hit the sweet spot where they are the good guys (and they are) , and they seem to actually have a good chance of winning. And I don't think the point was 'wondering why people in the US are so invested in Ukraine' (because Ukraine is in the wrong/undeserving/Russia has vital interests) but more of a 'wondering why the people in the US are so invested in Ukraine' (because other people who suffer injustice and terror similarly to Ukraine generally get an emotionally muted response)
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Jul 1, 2023 12:13
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Ms Adequate posted:Part of my family is Estonian and fled the returning Soviets in WW2, this was a very good idea because one of them was a senior official in the collaboration government It's unfortunate how many war criminals escaped justice by fleeing to the west. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jul 1, 2023 12:34
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Another point people haven't mentioned yet: the war caused an enormous energy and food crises all around the world that affected almost everyone in some form. And also the enormous refugee wave that exposed people to first hand accounts of the horrifying poo poo that Russia is doing. In many places it has been the biggest refugee wave since WW2.
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Jul 1, 2023 12:39
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Cpt_Obvious posted:It's unfortunate how many war criminals escaped justice by fleeing to the west. Remember when the Soviets invaded in 1940 rounded up everyone with an education and sent them to die in Siberia Very smart American tankie boy: "lmao... that owns. everyone that was left was nazis deserving of death, as well"
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Jul 1, 2023 12:45
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Gentlemen, please, you can't fight here, this is the war thread!
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Jul 1, 2023 13:34
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Is there an up to date overview somewhere of how many tanks/artillery systems/whatnot the Russians have left? I see the daily updates on the number of losses they take, but have lost sight of how much of their total they have thrown away. I assume they are far from the bottom of the barrel, even despite the occasional T-55 popping up in Ukraine now.
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Jul 1, 2023 13:39
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Estonian collaborators specifically were notorious for escaping justice because of this gentleman: He was a high ranking collaborator, a natural born Estonian, who oversaw the extermination of every single Jew in Estonia save exactly 12. He then fled to Britain who refused to extradite him to face trial by the Soviets. Cpt_Obvious fucked around with this message at 13:50 on Jul 1, 2023 |
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Jul 1, 2023 13:44
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I keep thinking Dungeons and Debates needs a separate thread for litigating everything that was awful and horrible about World War 2, its time and aftermath, but we have actual historians writing here and I'm too timid to write an OP
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Jul 1, 2023 13:47
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Huggybear posted:What's the American equivalent of a T-54? M48? Why would you even have a tank that old in commission? How do they maintain it, surely they haven't manufactured parts for it for decades. I can only imagine countries they sold the tanks to who kept it in commission much longer have post-production parts, ammo and material. This is hurting my brain, but at least it speaks to desperation for russia. The T-55 was very advanced for its time and the core design is good. A lot of countries use modernized T-55s or have done so until recently. The Egyptian are a big user with hundreds of heavily modernized T-55s with new engines and powertrains, a modernized Western 105mm guns, and an advanced fire control and sensor suite. There are a lot of other variants that followed this path. The Ukrainians were big in to the T-55AGM with a powerpack from a T-72, appliqué armor, sensors, and a modern gun. Survivability isn’t as good as a modern tank but it’s a cheaper way to get good mobility and firepower.
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Jul 1, 2023 13:47
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Kikas posted:Gentlemen, please, you can't fight here, this is the war thread! That guy has defended the genocide of Uighurs by china and rape by Chinese state officials Even the war thread needs some standards not to take seriously the guy who is not against what the Nazis did, but that those atrocities were done by the wrong side (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jul 1, 2023 13:47
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Cpt_Obvious posted:Estonian collaborators specifically were notorious for escaping justice because of this gentleman: hadn't heard about that guy before, looks like that he was secretly in nkvd too
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Jul 1, 2023 13:48
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Somaen posted:That guy has defended the genocide of Uighurs by china and rape by Chinese state officials there's a whole forums for that stuff, and since the site's owner doesn't mind it, it's here to stay. but those people could be threadbanned from here or something (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jul 1, 2023 13:50
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ChubbyChecker posted:there's a whole forums for that stuff, and since the site's owner doesn't mind it, it's here to stay. but those people could be threadbanned from here or something They've also defended Russia's abduction of Ukrainian children. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) Randarkman fucked around with this message at 13:57 on Jul 1, 2023 |
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Jul 1, 2023 13:52
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For people with encyclopaedic knowledge about horrible views of other posters you guys seem to have forgotten that this line of discussion has not been productive for this thread. Please shut up.
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Jul 1, 2023 14:04
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There has been a lot more footage of fighting around Dachi recently (AKA, south of the Dnipro below Kherson), and Telegram rumors have it that Ukraine has increased the number of troops in the area to 300, so its looking more and more like that is going to be a serious line of assault.
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Jul 1, 2023 14:15
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Have any of the telegram channels added substance to Prigozhn’s claims about 1000 Russian troop casualties a day in the counter offensive? I know he’s a liar and all that but curious if there was anything corroborating the claim. Sure huge land gains haven’t been showing up in official news but if there’s evidence that invaders are being made into casualties, it may be coming. Humans aren’t infinite. At the end of the story about the boy who cried wolf, eventually, the wolf did come.
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Jul 1, 2023 14:27
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MegaZeroX posted:There has been a lot more footage of fighting around Dachi recently (AKA, south of the Dnipro below Kherson), and Telegram rumors have it that Ukraine has increased the number of troops in the area to 300, so its looking more and more like that is going to be a serious line of assault. The Russians seem to have put a disproportionate amount of effort into getting rid of them up to and including sending one of the Iskander missiles to blow up part of the bridge. Still seems like nothing more than keeping the Russians honest though.
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Jul 1, 2023 14:38
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There's really some desperation to recent attempts to downplay the counteroffensive I think. Ukraine must surrender NOW before the effects of losing Wagner/ Surovikin/ Gerasimov/ any other officers who were purged after the attempted coup really start to be felt
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Jul 1, 2023 14:45
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MikeC posted:The Russians seem to have put a disproportionate amount of effort into getting rid of them up to and including sending one of the Iskander missiles to blow up part of the bridge. Still seems like nothing more than keeping the Russians honest though. So, about as threatening as a pizzeria?
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Jul 1, 2023 14:48
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