|
Honestly the weird thing to me is that it's a zerg virus. That's not a strategy they've ever used before or ever will again, infestation to them has always been more direct. There's nothing wrong with the zerg developing new strategies, of course, but it would probably have helped the writing to highlight that fact and make this storyline a bit more focused on containing and/or curing it.
|
#
?
Jul 2, 2023 11:31
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 5, 2024 12:10 |
|
|
quote:I'll be honest, I don't like Donny and Kate's whole gimmick. Szarrukin fucked around with this message at 11:43 on Jul 2, 2023 |
|
#
?
Jul 2, 2023 11:40
|
|
|
I think the narrative point behind Kate is to introduce the idea that there are competent, moral, and likeable people in the Dominion, not just bastards, but I don't think making her an anchor on space Fox News alongside Tucker Carlson With Worse Hair was a good way to do it.
|
|
#
?
Jul 2, 2023 13:17
|
|
|
There is one point in the game where they could have done something interesting with Donny, but because you can do these missions in any order, it doesn't lead anywhere.
|
|
#
?
Jul 2, 2023 13:29
|
|
|
Cythereal posted:I think the narrative point behind Kate is to introduce the idea that there are competent, moral, and likeable people in the Dominion, not just bastards, but I don't think making her an anchor on space Fox News alongside Tucker Carlson With Worse Hair was a good way to do it. Or if they still wanted to, they could easily have her do the reports for Space Tucker 'straight' and then have a separate "real" report she texts over to Raynor or is on the space internet with a nome de plume. Just getting interrupted after 5 seconds of a report to show this is dumb.
|
|
#
?
Jul 2, 2023 16:17
|
|
|
Slaan posted:Or if they still wanted to, they could easily have her do the reports for Space Tucker 'straight' and then have a separate "real" report she texts over to Raynor or is on the space internet with a nome de plume. Just getting interrupted after 5 seconds of a report to show this is dumb. Oh that would have been neat. Have her play along with the Dominion narrative on their show then half of the broadcasts are instead her on some underground rebel network reporting the real news. Although that opens the question of how widespread the rebel movement really is. The game is very clear that basically everyone in the Dominion is a potential rebel that just needs a push to start rising up against their oppressors, while at the same time Raynor's Raiders themselves are a rag-tag bunch of freedom fighters reliant on mercenaries for muscle and shady business dealings for funding. Could have been some neat storytelling if the sector is actually full of rebel groups that are already rising up for themselves anywhere the Dominion doesn't have solid control, and you're interacting to support and/or make deals with them. That's pretty close to how it works for both the Hanson and Tosh storylines, just give them a bit more formality as their own factions that are working with you on their stuff.
|
|
#
?
Jul 2, 2023 17:45
|
|
|
Rhonne posted:There is one point in the game where they could have done something interesting with Donny, but because you can do these missions in any order, it doesn't lead anywhere. You mean "I had a brother there?" moment? Yeah, I hoped that will be some fresh air, but they just turned it into ableist joke.
|
|
#
?
Jul 2, 2023 20:24
|
|
|
Having the doc working on a "cure" to the Zerg virus is a bit of a weird thing. It's like, "Didn't anyone think of that earlier?" I mean, yeah, okay, we're led to believe that the Terrans were all like, "Oooh, biological weapons," and the Protoss were all like, "Burn the unclean!", but you'd think someone would've also been all like, "Can we fight it?" And I don't think you should...? Because yeah, I never thought of it as a virus thing. A parasite, sure, that eats into you and integrates you into it. Like the Many in System Shock, or yes, obviously the Tyranids.
|
|
#
?
Jul 2, 2023 21:54
|
|
|
painedforever posted:Having the doc working on a "cure" to the Zerg virus is a bit of a weird thing. It's like, "Didn't anyone think of that earlier?" I mean, yeah, okay, we're led to believe that the Terrans were all like, "Oooh, biological weapons," and the Protoss were all like, "Burn the unclean!", but you'd think someone would've also been all like, "Can we fight it?" This also makes me think that the "zerg virus" in this storyline is a different thing from their normal infestation. A new vector for it that you could potentially build some sort of immunisation against, or treat people that have been infected but proper assimilation into the Swarm hasn't begun yet. Not a cure for the basic concept of zerg infestation. They could definitely have afforded to make that clearer if that was the intention though.
|
|
#
?
Jul 2, 2023 23:45
|
|
|
Tenebrais posted:This also makes me think that the "zerg virus" in this storyline is a different thing from their normal infestation. A new vector for it that you could potentially build some sort of immunisation against, or treat people that have been infected but proper assimilation into the Swarm hasn't begun yet. Not a cure for the basic concept of zerg infestation. Strange as it sounds, I do think the idea is she is somehow trying to research a cure for Zerg Infestation in general - Zerg Infestation and the "Zerg Hyperevolutionary Virus" have come to refer to the same thing, from what I understand. The Doctor is honestly probably fighting a losing battle - she herself says that conventional wisdom says a cure is impossible, as the virus mutates too quickly. But I suppose we'll see how she does.
|
|
#
?
Jul 2, 2023 23:50
|
|
|
if the zerg virus is truly a virus, all you'd need is a single larvae to obtain a pure, unmutated sample. that's the purpose of larvae, they're the genetic libraries of the zerg and that's how they morph into any zerg unit (and if they become a drone first, any zerg building) it's pretty loving stupid that Dawn Of War II has a more believable and reasonable "curing the virus" storyline than SC2 where you can toss a larva in a bag and be like "alright let's get your wiggly rear end to the lab"
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2023 01:01
|
|
|
painedforever posted:Having the doc working on a "cure" to the Zerg virus is a bit of a weird thing. It's like, "Didn't anyone think of that earlier?" I mean, yeah, okay, we're led to believe that the Terrans were all like, "Oooh, biological weapons," and the Protoss were all like, "Burn the unclean!", but you'd think someone would've also been all like, "Can we fight it?" I think in the SC1 manual when they talked about the origins of the Zerg (so le-ancient lore) The original form of the zerg was a bug/parasite that would hook to the base of the spinal cord/nervous system and seize control that way.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2023 01:02
|
|
|
Calax posted:I think in the SC1 manual when they talked about the origins of the Zerg (so le-ancient lore) The original form of the zerg was a bug/parasite that would hook to the base of the spinal cord/nervous system and seize control that way. That's pretty much what was in my head. A ganglia of nerve cells that insinuate themselves into the person's CNS and then slowly take over. Instruct the body to form different types of cells that produce mucus or organic barbs or whatever weird stuff is part of Zerg bio-weaponry.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2023 01:21
|
|
|
Yep, and each zerg form is actually a separate species that the zerg took over entirely at some point in their expansion. So they took over a planet and adapted the 'best' lifeform for the hive, consuming the rest.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2023 01:28
|
|
|
Slaan posted:Yep, and each zerg form is actually a separate species that the zerg took over entirely at some point in their expansion. So they took over a planet and adapted the 'best' lifeform for the hive, consuming the rest. Which makes the fact that their first instinct was to turn humans into bombs a bit of an insult to our usefulness.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2023 02:58
|
|
|
going back a bit to the cutscene at the end of mission 3 - matt tells the crew to spin up drives 3 and 6 instead of, you know, everything we got. and then he waits for his watch to hit 12. not like we're in a rush or anything.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2023 03:03
|
|
|
Viruses being involved in infestation isn't that wild an idea, really. Some kind of retrovirus is probably their main means of twisting an infested lifeform to mutate zerg-y bits, even if it's delivered via parasites. But it's also never really explained in that way until this point, to my knowledge, so it feels like a bit of a leap. Plus the zerg just haven't done it this way before, and everyone's talking about it like it's known. Unless it was explained and presented in a book between the games, in which case, bleh, drat expanded universes.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2023 03:07
|
|
|
Kith posted:it's pretty loving stupid that Dawn Of War II has a more believable and reasonable "curing the virus" storyline than SC2 where you can toss a larva in a bag and be like "alright let's get your wiggly rear end to the lab" In Dawn of War 2, it's a much more sensible story for trying to cure a particular toxin, not a disease. Coming up with an antidote to a particular chemical poison is very different from trying to cure a disease. Starcraft 2's plot seems to struggle with the difference between diseases, parasites, acids, and toxins. It's all green goop to them.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2023 03:10
|
|
|
Felinoid posted:Which makes the fact that their first instinct was to turn humans into bombs a bit of an insult to our usefulness.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2023 03:11
|
|
|
Yeah the dow 2 toxin plot is split into 2 parts 1) we need a sample of their special goop so that we can design a poison to yeet into their fleet via the whole hive mind thing. 2) I guess kill the animal that poisoned our buddy so we can save him. 2 isn't actually that far off reality. And while we don't have psychic hive minds in reality, understanding something's body is an important step in making a poison that breaks it. As opposed to here, where everyone is being so loving vague the thread doesn't even have a consensus on what the hell is even being looked at for a cure.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2023 04:21
|
|
|
Cythereal posted:Starcraft 2's plot seems to struggle with the difference between diseases, parasites, acids, and toxins. It's all green goop to them. Oddly prescient, given that COVID hadn't happened yet.  BisbyWorl posted:Yeah that's the major reason I'm not bothering with going over how units fare in multi like the SC1 LP. While there are some significant changes (e.g., concussive shell isn't an AOE in MP), the biggest difference tends to be how the units are used. Most campaign upgrades are just very strong versions of what differentiates the MP from the Campaign unit. Also, general question, but in Void the game clock was fixed to accurately reflect real world time. I haven't checked to see if that change was made retroactive in previous releases--Campaign or MP.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2023 05:01
|
|
|
Felinoid posted:Which makes the fact that their first instinct was to turn humans into bombs a bit of an insult to our usefulness. disposablewords posted:Viruses being involved in infestation isn't that wild an idea, really. Some kind of retrovirus is probably their main means of twisting an infested lifeform to mutate zerg-y bits, even if it's delivered via parasites. But it's also never really explained in that way until this point, to my knowledge, so it feels like a bit of a leap. Plus the zerg just haven't done it this way before, and everyone's talking about it like it's known. Unless it was explained and presented in a book between the games, in which case, bleh, drat expanded universes. Given that Kerrigan spent 3 missions worth of time in a chrysalis (and that might have been months, given the situation/missions involved), it implies that turning Terran into gasbags is either the leftovers of a failed infestation or the Quick-And-Dirty version of infestation, which makes a lot of sense. In this way the fact that infesting a building now actually doesn't turn Terrans into explosive bags of gas is a progression, albeit one that doesn't really matter, since their main use is expendable shock troops and well, that's Zerg's whole thing. Certain expanded universe stuff implies that Kerrigan is doing the same thing the Overmind did to her, that is, experimenting with infesting various humans for genetic compatibility/psionic potential, which is internally consistent with the larger SC2 narrative structure. Also, I've seen at least one theory that Tosh referring to Hanson as a 'Honeypot' and her situation at the end of this missions line (if you don't side with her) suggests the whole thing is a situation created by Kerrigan to distract Jim from the artifact business, in which case it would be a tailor made infestation virus strain. But that kind of strains credibility in the face of Blizzard 'subtlety' (Either Not telling you anything, but vaguely alluding to it, being very unsubtle). I think it's probably just an excuse to show off Day/Night cycles and do a Zombie thing. A lot of SC2 Missions to me kind of feel like Blizzard doing RTS Stuff, but also Flexing the capabilities of the Engine to potential modders and the like, since at the time WC3 custom maps had extended the life of that game a hundredfold, not to mention the creation of DOTA and in a roundabout way probably WoW.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2023 05:58
|
|
|
There is also a chance that Hanson is making up all that "zerg virus" poo poo and she just want to experiment on zerg stuff and colonists as suggested by that renegade ghost guy who has yet to appear .
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2023 08:22
|
|
|
Felinoid posted:Which makes the fact that their first instinct was to turn humans into bombs a bit of an insult to our usefulness. Yeah, canonically the only humans that Zerg had a use for beyond IED's were those with psionic potential, like Kerrigan. Cythereal posted:In Dawn of War 2, it's a much more sensible story for trying to cure a particular toxin, not a disease. Coming up with an antidote to a particular chemical poison is very different from trying to cure a disease. I think you mean it's all green corruption to Chris Metzen.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2023 09:17
|
|
|
Cythereal posted:In Dawn of War 2, it's a much more sensible story for trying to cure a particular toxin, not a disease. Coming up with an antidote to a particular chemical poison is very different from trying to cure a disease. Fair, but this is also a setting where someone was de-infested prior to this point (and it's not like the writers forgot about that character, considering that they show up later and get referenced several times before that). Solving the problem is something that's been done before - hell, Raynor was even there for it. My point remains that SC2's narrative of "find the cure" just kinda... sucks for multiple reasons.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2023 10:48
|
|
|
Unit Spotlight: Marauder Overview:
Armory Upgrades:  Concussive Shells
Concussive Shells make Marauders a great support unit against melee units, in addition to their traditional role of destroying armored targets. Frankly, the anti-Armor is nice, but Concussive Shells is what makes a mixed Marine-Marauder army so deadly. See, the thing about melee units is that until they can physically reach your army, they have effectively 0 DPS. A Zergling could do 1 damage a hit, it could do a million billion damage, it means absolutely nothing until it can cross the gap and start attacking. Throw in a few Marauders, with their 50%, area slow, and every melee enemy in the game takes twice as long to become a threat, letting you thin out approaching attacks and reduce the damage you take. Any high threat ranged units which don't care about slows tend to be Armored, which the Marauder already deals with. Grab this, throw a handful of Marauders in every army from here on out, laugh anything from Zerglings or Zealots all the way to Ultralisks and Archons become complete non-threats.  Kinetic Foam
A decent boost to survivability, but 90K credits is a bit of a steep cost for a unit that has respectable bulk out the box. Grab it if you can swing the cash, but don't be afraid to save it for other units. Mercenary: Hammer Security  A private security firm based in the Kel-Morian Combine. H-Sec provides corporate security, and often finds itself at odds with the Dominion.
Field Manual Artwork 
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2023 14:25
|
|
|
Szarrukin posted:There is also a chance that Hanson is making up all that "zerg virus" poo poo and she just want to experiment on zerg stuff and colonists as suggested by that renegade ghost guy who has yet to appear . I was under the impression that that character was suggesting that Hanson was in fact infested, just covertly. The Zerg going Invasion of the Body Snatchers on Terrans would probably be a lot more in-character than a virus with someone like Kerrigan at the helm who would understand the value of spying on the Dominion.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2023 14:52
|
|
|
Marauders are great and never bought, because you only need a few and why build a tech lab when you can call Hammer Securities instead? (Mercs are amazing).
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2023 16:26
|
|
|
I absolutely love field manual.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2023 16:37
|
|
|
Cythereal posted:-snip- I don't think it's that direct, but I'll wait to go into more detail about my thoughts until we reach the conclusion of the Hanson plot. We haven't gotten that far yet, after all.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2023 16:42
|
|
|
Marauders are one of my favorite units in the game including expansions, in both SP and MP.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2023 17:46
|
|
|
PurpleXVI posted:Yeah, canonically the only humans that Zerg had a use for beyond IED's were those with psionic potential, like Kerrigan. I think SC1 EU stuff (whether it was a book or a comic, I do not remember) showed that if a captured Terran didn't even have a sufficient psionic makeup they would basically go brain dead from the zergification process, and so the only use the Overmind could think up was to turn them into man-powered IEDs. The story I specifically remember this for was one where Kerrigan captured a UED medic and was experimenting to see if she could get the same results as the Overmind got when creating the Queen of Blades. After a certain point, the medic's personality got erased and Kerrigan's reaction was basically that Top Gear meme
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2023 19:34
|
|
|
Aces High posted:I think SC1 EU stuff (whether it was a book or a comic, I do not remember) showed that if a captured Terran didn't even have a sufficient psionic makeup they would basically go brain dead from the zergification process, and so the only use the Overmind could think up was to turn them into man-powered IEDs. The story I specifically remember this for was one where Kerrigan captured a UED medic and was experimenting to see if she could get the same results as the Overmind got when creating the Queen of Blades. After a certain point, the medic's personality got erased and Kerrigan's reaction was basically that Top Gear meme How much SC1/SC2 EU stuff exists outside of the games, anyway? I assume smaller volumes than for Warcraft.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2023 20:06
|
|
|
These some pre and post Starcraft I EU stuff
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2023 21:05
|
|
|
not too sure on how much stuff SC1 had, the short story I was describing was this one https://starcraft.fandom.com/wiki/StarCraft:_Hybrid and it was printed in Amazing Stories back in 2000. I don't think Blizzard did a whole lot of EU stuff until the 00s, likely to bring new fans to series, and outside of small lore stories like this they didn't do much with StarCraft until Liberty's Crusade in 2001, around the same time as Lord of the Clans came out (the book version of the cancelled game) and Legacy of Blood (the first Diablo book). I actually paid money for Legacy of Blood (though I never finished it) but I distinctly remember there being StarCraft and WarCraft novels nearby as well. I guess Blizzard did a big push all at once for their 3 big franchises at the time but I feel that WarCraft was the one that really took off with LOTS of EU works, probably because WarCraft 3 was on the horizon and then WoW not too long after as compared to StarCraft Ghost being cancelled and nothing happening with Diablo until 3 was announced in...2008 or 2009?
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2023 21:06
|
|
|
God, a Diablo novel. I'm sure it can't be as entertaining as it is in my mind.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2023 21:11
|
|
|
PurpleXVI posted:How much SC1/SC2 EU stuff exists outside of the games, anyway? I assume smaller volumes than for Warcraft. Much smaller. There were a handful of tie-in novels and such released after Brood War but the EU engine didn't really get revved up until a year or two prior to SC2. There's been a respectable amount of novels, short stories, and comics since then, but nothing on the scale of Warcraft from what I can tell.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2023 21:29
|
|
|
PurpleXVI posted:God, a Diablo novel. There's over a dozen. Most of them are by Richard K. Knaak, inventor of half of the worst self-insert WoW characters (Rhonin, Krasus, Broxigar)
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2023 22:34
|
|
|
Pieces of Peace posted:There's over a dozen. Most of them are by Richard K. Knaak, inventor of half of the worst self-insert WoW characters (Rhonin, Krasus, Broxigar) ...that's a lot of self-inserts for one man. Hey Cyth, any chance of a look at the most atrocious writer self-inserts in one of the next lore posts? Might be funny to have them all in one place.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2023 22:35
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 5, 2024 12:10 |
|
|
PurpleXVI posted:Hey Cyth, any chance of a look at the most atrocious writer self-inserts in one of the next lore posts? Wrong thread. I've never read a single Starcraft book and I don't intend to start.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2023 22:38
|
|