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SHISHKABOB posted:Why the hell would they pick 54 anyways. It's 50 + WT4 bonus
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Jul 3, 2023 04:15
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More specifically, you're supposed to do WT3 and endgame stuff from 50-69 (thus why the first 20 tiers of sigils are 50 + 3, the 3 is the WT3 bonus) and then 70+ is when you do WT4. And yes I agree, it's incredibly stupid that the overworld scales to your level, even when partying with friends, but NM dungeons don't. It's a strange way of separating the dungeons from the main content while also being the only thing in the game you'll reasonably "actively choose" to balance against how powerful your character is. DaveKap fucked around with this message at 04:21 on Jul 3, 2023 |
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Jul 3, 2023 04:17
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i dont think nightmare scaling is necessarily the problem, it gives stronger builds the option to have more challenge, the issue i have with it is the rewards dont scale enough to make it worth doing anything but the optimal level for xp gain, and also the fact that there isnt enough other end game stuff to occupy your time.
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Jul 3, 2023 04:24
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D4 endgame is being broke as hell, finally found a good amulet upgrade but it’s gonna take a week’s worth of selling legendaries to roll that last good affix. On the plus side, I found the helm that makes my bone spear echo and explode. That’s neat.
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Jul 3, 2023 04:24
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What other endgame stuff exists in any other ARPG that doesn’t boil down to endless scaling dungeons? Don’t say the Crucible from GD that poo poo is insanely boring.
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Jul 3, 2023 04:26
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D4s got good bones that’s okay rn. Two years from now there’ll only be a dozen of us in here and we’ll be crying because Omega Nightmare Lilith won’t drop the thigh highs we need to complete the key for the cow level that unlocks Zultans cube so we can increase aspect power before season 14 ends…or something.
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Jul 3, 2023 04:34
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Yoooo!
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Jul 3, 2023 04:40
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odinson posted:Yoooo! grats  i will take lilith down... in S1
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Jul 3, 2023 04:43
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RyokoTK posted:This explains how I upgraded a near perfectly rolled weapon and it turned into garbage. This is true, but it does show you what the roles are going to be in the upgrade preview, so if poo poo is red do not upgrade
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Jul 3, 2023 04:51
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Upgrading an item should never make it worse—that’s a failure of the design team and not something a player should ever be concerned about. I get you’re just warning people, it’s just an abject failure of game design that it could even happen.
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Jul 3, 2023 05:01
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wuffles posted:Upgrading an item should never make it worse—that’s a failure of the design team and not something a player should ever be concerned about. I get you’re just warning people, it’s just an abject failure of game design that it could even happen. You are definitely right. It's dumb as poo poo, they should give you a roll between your current roll and the new max or something. But, you know, it's nice to know if you have a perfect roll near a breakpoint
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Jul 3, 2023 05:11
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Tokubetsu posted:D4s got good bones that’s okay rn. Two years from now there’ll only be a dozen of us in here and we’ll be crying because Omega Nightmare Lilith won’t drop the thigh highs we need to complete the key for the cow level that unlocks Zultans cube so we can increase aspect power before season 14 ends…or something. hell yeah One month in and d4 has hit the casual falloff, just like d3 did, though d3 had a lot more working against it. The people I see still playing are the mostly the same people I saw playing d3 in the later years who have a known appreciation and past with it. A lot of my irl friends are dropping off once they hit WT3. I think a good amount of people hit 50 and take a break because they found running nightmares too samey, and that's a respectable take. The loot pursuit is a bit of a drudge, but it was a lot worse in d3's early days and developed into something I really enjoyed so I'm optimistic. I'm having a good time and I'm most pleasantly surprised with the paragon system. Levelling glyphs is an acceptable replacement for levelling legendary gems and as I'm not smart enough to figure out a build on my own I'm looking forward to time offering new and improved builds to explore. The one I'm using is fantastic even though the author looks like he cuts his hair with a lawnmower (Northwar). It seems unlikely I'll reach 100 before the season lands and I'm happy about that because I like checking boxes.
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Jul 3, 2023 05:31
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RyokoTK posted:What other endgame stuff exists in any other ARPG that doesn’t boil down to endless scaling dungeons? Well there's the entirety of PoE. All other ARPGs dont really do any better than D4, but a game as big as D4 shouldn't be content with being middle-of-the-pack and the lackluster itemization means that grinding for gear isn't particularly interesting. The only thing you can aim for are the super-uniques and they are so rare that you just should ignore that they even exist.
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Jul 3, 2023 05:42
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RyokoTK posted:What other endgame stuff exists in any other ARPG that doesn’t boil down to endless scaling dungeons?
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Jul 3, 2023 06:05
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I like the endless scaling dungeons. I still have to go max out my renown and probably find all the Lilith altars and it all seems like such a pain in the butt compared to just running an endless stream of Nightmare dungeons that I can teleport to. I'm starting to realize that my perfect Diablo game would just have be endless randomized dungeon crawls and screw the whole open world aspect entirely.
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Jul 3, 2023 06:18
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StarkRavingMad posted:I like the endless scaling dungeons. I still have to go max out my renown and probably find all the Lilith altars and it all seems like such a pain in the butt compared to just running an endless stream of Nightmare dungeons that I can teleport to. I'm starting to realize that my perfect Diablo game would just have be endless randomized dungeon crawls and screw the whole open world aspect entirely.
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Jul 3, 2023 06:47
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RyokoTK posted:What other endgame stuff exists in any other ARPG that doesn’t boil down to endless scaling dungeons? Hopefully a deep and engaging itemization system and a huge player run market to keep you trading and amassing gear and currency for existing characters and new alts. There's no better endgame in an aRPG than finding an awesome drop and thinking: "I ll sell this and buy gear for a new character" Think D2 and PoE
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Jul 3, 2023 07:02
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In other news, I got a 75% Temerity the other day and keep it on my rogue for now before the hota barb comes of age to use it People are saying the Stolen Vigor aspect is a good one especially when used with Temerity. I am thinking of replacing Exploiter's for it. Anyone tried it? Im also thinking to swap Retribution with Conceited to get some damage out of the barrier too
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Jul 3, 2023 07:11
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Mr. Pickles posted:Hopefully a deep and engaging itemization system and a huge player run market to keep you trading and amassing gear and currency for existing characters and new alts. There's no better endgame in an aRPG than finding an awesome drop and thinking: "I ll sell this and buy gear for a new character" With full on trading it's always more efficient to just play the trading site instead of the actual game which kinda sucks and leads into the D2 problem where ladders don't matter at all because people are loaded with 20 years of botted third party forum currency and instabuy the best gear possible for their new character, making competition impossible for anyone new.
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Jul 3, 2023 07:17
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DeadlyHalibut posted:With full on trading it's always more efficient to just play the trading site instead of the actual game which kinda sucks and leads into the D2 problem where ladders don't matter at all because people are loaded with 20 years of botted third party forum currency and instabuy the best gear possible for their new character, making competition impossible for anyone new. you play the game to farm items and currency then use the 3rd party sites to sell and buy stuff. I dont agree with the notion that competition is impossible, anyone can get in at any given time and play. Competition gets harder as the season progresses but if you are there at the start you are good even without amassed 3rd party currency. To me its about how late you are to the party which is kinda OK. What I do not like about this system is the bots. If the game has a huge market economy then inevitably there will be bots :o then blizzard will have to get rid of them etc, which is not their strongsuit
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Jul 3, 2023 07:24
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I get bored if I'm not doing keys of an ill-advised level where corpse bows are the one-shot menaces they were meant to be, but in these scenarios I really wish your camera could follow teammates after you've died. It's not too uncommon for 2/3 of my group to be dead while the remaining person is off performing some zany benny hill antics to stay alive and it would be much nicer to watch that than stare at a spooky ghost, occasionally catching corner glimpses of a wolfman desperately running from 5 cold enchanted elites.
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Jul 3, 2023 07:36
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Vargs posted:occasionally catching corner glimpses of a wolfman desperately running from 5 cold enchanted elites. It me, a wolfman. I don't have to be faster than the trash, just my friends.
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Jul 3, 2023 07:46
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Diablo 3's expansion endgame was perfect, I think, and it sounds like they're going for the same 'just do dungeons' approach, which is fine. I honestly just don't think a series like Diablo is really designed or meant for a battle pass like grind. It's a game to dip into to smash up some skeletons and listen to a podcast when you wanna unwind. There's a lot of stats and loot and numbers but really, it's closer to an arcade game than anything else for me. But this whole high upfront cost + seasonal battle pass model - and the dopamine journey up to endgame, I guess - presents it as some kind of forever game. I don't know. World of Warcraft was the worst thing that could have possibly happened to Blizzard. edit: well obviously the galling workplace culture of systematic abuse coupled with being bought by Activision was the worst thing that happened to blizzard. but you know what I mean. The Grumbles fucked around with this message at 08:57 on Jul 3, 2023 |
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Jul 3, 2023 08:54
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Trying to push nightmare dungeons on a ranged rogue is pretty miserable. I was doing a 91 without dying until I ran into a suppressor+teleporter elite that was required to be killed to progress in the dungeon. Can't attack from it range, so I can't safely stack Disobedience, so it one shots me every time it teleports. Should have played barb or druid or Necro I guess. Gwaihir posted:If you had an 802 drop you at least had the option of upgrading it past 815 to reroll the affixes at higher ranges. 725 is the highest breakpoint for affix ranges
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Jul 3, 2023 09:25
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Dr. Mantis Toboggan posted:Should have played barb or druid or Necro I guess. e: if you are 91 rank nightmare dungeon then you're probably doing great even as ranged rogue. There's probably an elite combination to instakill every build at 90+ Mr. Pickles fucked around with this message at 09:54 on Jul 3, 2023 |
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Jul 3, 2023 09:49
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Dr. Mantis Toboggan posted:Trying to push nightmare dungeons on a ranged rogue is pretty miserable. I was doing a 91 without dying until I ran into a suppressor+teleporter elite that was required to be killed to progress in the dungeon. Can't attack from it range, so I can't safely stack Disobedience, so it one shots me every time it teleports. There's definitely one higher, can't remember the exact number, but I think 815. Most guides are woefully incomplete on this still.
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Jul 3, 2023 10:53
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Olpainless posted:There's definitely one higher, can't remember the exact number, but I think 815. Most guides are woefully incomplete on this still. Nope this is not true
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Jul 3, 2023 11:12
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Re: armor chat on the last few pages, many guides say the exact scaling isn't know, which feels weird because you can just read that stuff right from the tooltip. Since I just started my first HC character which I obviously want to be as tanky as possible, I went through my equipment every level and checked the damage reduction: As you'd expect higher levels need more armor for the same DR, but... it scales better than linear?? I assumed this could've gone logistic at reduction levels I couldn't achieve yet, so I hopped onto my level 71 rogue who also has Obedience:  (it's a known bug that the tooltip goes to 100% while the DR caps at 85%, but the scaling formula doesn't seem to care) Just from eyeballing it looks like the scaling might become linear beyond 50%, this is also where I needed Obedience to get to but that in itself has no effect, the grey dots are Obedience at lower base armor. Either way this seems like an unexpected design choice, because even with linear scaling every additional point of armor is better than the previous. Put differently, my level 71 rogue needs 3.7K armor to reduce physical damage from 100% to 70% (down 30%), only another 2K armor to cut that by another relative 30%, and with an extra 800 armor you again get that same reduction. I really would've expected these curves to be logarithmic (diminishing effects as you get more armor, such as in D3 or WoW), but guess not? tl;dr armor even more broken than I thought?
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Jul 3, 2023 11:14
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Mr. Pickles posted:In other news, I got a 75% Temerity the other day and keep it on my rogue for now before the hota barb comes of age to use it Stolen vigor only works great if you can almost instantly grab 3 stacks of momentum with lots of daze on lucky hit or something. It works best as 1 of multiple sources of healing, stacked with the % life on critical skill or +Regen for every close enemy. Temerity is good on rogue if you have %DR and dodge from other sources so the barrier is multiplying an already large ehp pool. Pants are a big defense item so it's definitely a tradeoff if you already have good pants.
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Jul 3, 2023 12:49
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Sinecure posted:Re: armor chat on the last few pages, many guides say the exact scaling isn't know, which feels weird because you can just read that stuff right from the tooltip. Since I just started my first HC character which I obviously want to be as tanky as possible, I went through my equipment every level and checked the damage reduction: Nice data - thanks! It looks like it scales like x^2/(1+x), which is quadratic for low armor, linear for high armor. Why it's this I have no idea - someone just loving around with random functions until they got something that looked about right.
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Jul 3, 2023 14:11
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satanic splash-back posted:Temerity is good on rogue if you have %DR and dodge from other sources so the barrier is multiplying an already large ehp pool. Pants are a big defense item so it's definitely a tradeoff if you already have good pants. This is what I was thinking :o I didn't have particularly good pants so it will serve well for now, but my character is quite squishy and I can see myself getting stonewalled when I eventually start tackling 40 or 50+ Sigils Momentum certainly looks great for the endgame, a big chunk of DR out of nowhere would be nice. I don't suppose the DPS increase from Close Quarters Combat will help with anything if every mob in the dungeon 1shots you ... I might be able to get 3stacks of Momentum consistently already, with Twisting blades hitting things from the back all the time. I 'll test it
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Jul 3, 2023 14:15
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Just like there's an experience bonus for fighting enemies above your level, there's an equal (or at least similar) experience penalty for fighting enemies below your level, right? It's occurring to me that now that I'm level 57 and have only Nightmare level 1 sigils that the EXP I'm getting from level 1 Nightmare Dungeons isn't much use. Just so I'm clear, I should keep grinding those dungeons in hopes of higher level sigils dropping (since I'm still in WT3)? Or do caches from the Whisper Tree have a better chance of dropping a level 3 sigil?
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Jul 3, 2023 14:24
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Putting daze on twisting blades makes getting momentum automatic pretty much. I really like daze on twisting blades, dunno if its M E T A but daze + knockdown + crit chancr after knockdown is deleting the elites
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Jul 3, 2023 14:25
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McCoy Pauley posted:Just like there's an experience bonus for fighting enemies above your level, there's an equal (or at least similar) experience penalty for fighting enemies below your level, right? On WT3 it took me forever to get a level 3 sigil. I think I had nearly 30 level 1s and 2s before getting one. Once you beat a level 3 or above you can craft better ones, so I highly recommend getting a friend to let you in a higher level dungeon.
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Jul 3, 2023 14:28
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Has the latency in this game been awful for the past like 2 weeks for anyone else or is it just me?
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Jul 3, 2023 14:29
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OctaMurk posted:Putting daze on twisting blades makes getting momentum automatic pretty much. I really like daze on twisting blades, dunno if its M E T A but daze + knockdown + crit chancr after knockdown is deleting the elites I was playing HOTA barbarian for a while and forgot how ridiculous twisting blades rogue is. Pretty surprising how they havent nerfed it yet. It just knocks mans down and kills them
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Jul 3, 2023 14:31
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As far as I know it's RNG, and there are a number of people all month who have reported never getting a NM sigil at all, ever despite doing a bunch of Tree of Whispers events. Absolutely insane design to not have the next tier sigil drop at the end of the current one automatically. Again, a step back from what was working fine in D3 - beating a GR would unlock higher tiers of GR forever on that character. Now there's an RNG minigame, and you can't even play the crafting part of this minigame until you beat at least a tier 3 NM dungeon. If someone drags you through a WT4 dungeon you'll unlock crafting them at least, or ask around in discord if someone will group run a T3 with you. I have a sigil actually just not online right now. Quote-Unquote posted:On WT3 it took me forever to get a level 3 sigil. I think I had nearly 30 level 1s and 2s before getting one. Once you beat a level 3 or above you can craft better ones, so I highly recommend getting a friend to let you in a higher level dungeon. I am not in any way arguing with you just quoting this to highlight what an awful design choice in a game with no LFG and limited social aspects. There are a few points in the game where the only/best way to progress is to leech from higher level people and that sucks to begin with, but sucks even more when there's no general chat/tiny clans/group finder. bus hustler fucked around with this message at 14:34 on Jul 3, 2023 |
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Jul 3, 2023 14:32
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Thom and the Heads posted:Has the latency in this game been awful for the past like 2 weeks for anyone else or is it just me? If you’re not doing open world stuff turning off cross play is supposed to help but the game is still weird. I think in the last dev stream they said something like the game is constantly swapping you around different servers each time you hit a new zone. So they don’t even consider it latency?
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Jul 3, 2023 14:33
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bus hustler posted:As far as I know it's RNG, and there are a number of people all month who have reported never getting a NM sigil at all, ever despite doing a bunch of Tree of Whispers events. Thanks for the detailed explanation. At least this is the game design being crazy and not just something simple that I was stupidly overlooking. It does seem pretty insane if the regular way to do this is just to grind up levels until you can get to WT4, because that would mean you're spending long periods of timing faffing around in Nightmare dungeons that would be significantly under-levelled relative to your character. I'll see if I can just find someone in whatever of these clans I'm in who might let me hang out in a WT4 dungeon with them, so I can unlock crafting.
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Jul 3, 2023 14:38
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McCoy Pauley posted:Thanks for the detailed explanation. At least this is the game design being crazy and not just something simple that I was stupidly overlooking. It does seem pretty insane if the regular way to do this is just to grind up levels until you can get to WT4, because that would mean you're spending long periods of timing faffing around in Nightmare dungeons that would be significantly under-levelled relative to your character. They can drop from Legion events as well, but unsure of how rarely/the levels. Legion events are another one of those "the recommended gameplay loop is to leech from stronger characters for a while" frustrations but at least they're just on the overworld.
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Jul 3, 2023 14:49
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