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turn off the TV posted:So the first lovely thing about CS2 is that they're simulating morning and evening rush hours but you can only adjust public transportation in day/night intervals. Having more buses run on a line between 4 and 7 PM is just not an option. Its funny because iirc Cities in Motion - the transport infrastructure focused game before Skylines, allowed exactly this.
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Jul 3, 2023 17:31
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MikeJF posted:So for some reason they're calling metro 'subway' even though it'll happily run at ground or elevated level. It's a US simulator and they're called subways in the US, metro is a non-US term.  I agree on the subway entrances. There are certainly subways that use those, seen plenty, but I always liked to use the NAM entrances that didn't take up a tile in SimCity 4. You just placed it right on the road and got entrances on the sidewalks. Since the roads aren't tiles you can replace I don't think that can be modded in, I never saw those for CS1. I like doing elevated rail with stations over roads though. Grand Fromage fucked around with this message at 18:27 on Jul 3, 2023 |
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Jul 3, 2023 18:23
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Shadowlz posted:New feature highlight just dropped.
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Jul 3, 2023 18:29
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Grand Fromage posted:It's a US simulator and they're called subways in the US, metro is a non-US term. Yeah but even in the US subway only ever applies to underground, right? Metro is a little more general. Does the US have a general term for rail rapid transit that exists both above and below ground? MikeJF fucked around with this message at 18:33 on Jul 3, 2023 |
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Jul 3, 2023 18:29
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MikeJF posted:Yeah but even in the US subway only ever applies to underground, right? Metro is a little more general. If it's almost exclusively above-ground it can be an El, but that's really only a Chicago term.
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Jul 3, 2023 18:32
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MikeJF posted:Yeah but even in the US subway only ever applies to underground, right? Metro is a little more general. Nope. The New York Subway is always called the subway (or just "the train") even though half of it is above ground. Most US systems have weird names that people use locally, like BART or MARTA or the T or whatever. Subway is the only generic term I've ever heard, probably because the New York system is completely unparalleled in the country. I think DC's is called the Metro but capital M since it's the name of the system. Also DC is Europe cosplay city. Grand Fromage fucked around with this message at 18:34 on Jul 3, 2023 |
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Jul 3, 2023 18:32
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MikeJF posted:Yeah but even in the US subway only ever applies to underground, right? Metro is a little more general. In Chicago here we call it the El, which is short for elevated, but it runs both above and below ground. Consistency is for the weak. Isn’t DC’s system called the Metro?
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Jul 3, 2023 18:32
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I do have to say, reading the dev blog it feels like commuter rail (as distinct from rapid transit) is very de-emphasised, in the same way it always felt like it was in CS1. I wonder if that's just a side effect of the sim model scaling down from real life, kind of eliminating its niche. Did Skylines 1 ever add the ability to have underground commuter rail stations? Can't build Melbourne properly without it.  Gotta have that City Loop.
MikeJF fucked around with this message at 18:37 on Jul 3, 2023 |
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Jul 3, 2023 18:34
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Yeah with just one little city and no region there's not really a role for commuter rail.
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Jul 3, 2023 18:35
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MikeJF posted:Does the US have a general term for rail rapid transit that exists both above and below ground?
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Jul 3, 2023 18:38
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I always forget Cleveland has rail transit and it's actually fairly well utilized for what it is.
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Jul 3, 2023 18:44
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Grand Fromage posted:Yeah with just one little city and no region there's not really a role for commuter rail. Bizzarely the end of the airport section seems to show intra-regional air lines... Which surely should be what trains are for.
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Jul 3, 2023 18:48
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I’m looking forward to commuter airports
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Jul 3, 2023 19:07
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Grand Fromage posted:I always forget Cleveland has rail transit and it's actually fairly well utilized for what it is. two of the lines are run by a suburb because during the great de-tramification they were like gently caress you the red line should run to berea though 
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Jul 3, 2023 19:29
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The video mentions starting from scratch, no transportation. I hope that means the prebuilt highway nonsense is gone. Since you can add your own outside connections without a mod now, there's no real reason you'd have to have the prebuilt infrastucture.
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Jul 3, 2023 19:33
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Grand Fromage posted:It's a US simulator and they're called subways in the US, metro is a non-US term. It might not be that hard to make a building with a road that does the same thing
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Jul 3, 2023 20:03
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dragonshardz posted:It might not be that hard to make a building with a road that does the same thing Could you still make it generate zoning on the side?
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Jul 3, 2023 20:16
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MikeJF posted:Does the US have a general term for rail rapid transit that exists both above and below ground? Here in the PNW we call it "light rail". It's above ground, it's below ground, and yeah it's probably different than "a subway" or whatever, but CS2 seems to be replicating light rail more than subways anyway. Not sure why they call it subways when it's very clearly light rail.
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Jul 3, 2023 20:47
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I haven't seen anything in CS2 that looks like light rail. The trams if you run them on their own tracks I guess. I like the bus waypoints so you can make them go where you want all the time. Grand Fromage fucked around with this message at 20:59 on Jul 3, 2023 |
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Jul 3, 2023 20:53
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Yeah by my understanding light rail is just trams on their own separated tracks. Generally a lot faster than trams on roads, but nowhere near as fast as heavy rail rapid transit.
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Jul 3, 2023 20:58
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MikeJF posted:Yeah by my understanding light rail is just trams on their own separated tracks. Generally a lot faster than trams on roads, but nowhere near as fast as heavy rail rapid transit. Light rail is an abused and nebulous category to the point of being almost meaningless, but the common thread is it's almost as expensive to build as a proper heavy rail system for something that has much lower capacity, thus pointless and stupid and bad. US cities are therefore obsessed with it.  Look at this poo poo. So much effort for nothing. You can't upgrade it to run real trains on and you can't run enough of these vehicles to have high capacity. Grand Fromage fucked around with this message at 21:03 on Jul 3, 2023 |
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Jul 3, 2023 21:00
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Categorically, are subways and light rail different things? And why, if so? I am genuinely curious.
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Jul 3, 2023 21:12
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ExtraNoise posted:Categorically, are subways and light rail different things? And why, if so? I am genuinely curious. My understanding of the definition is that a subway is any rail that runs underground and has underground stops. Light, heavy, rapid or not, doesn't matter. (Talking IRL definitions and not CS ones, that is)
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Jul 3, 2023 21:17
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I've heard "people movers" as a genetic term for city-scale train, and sometimes light rail. I always hate the term people movers, I guess because freight heavy rail is stuff mover?
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Jul 3, 2023 21:23
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ExtraNoise posted:Categorically, are subways and light rail different things? And why, if so? I am genuinely curious. If you're just talking subway with no qualifiers, it's an electric rapid transit/heavy rail system. They have larger trains, longer station platforms, run at higher speeds, and thus have high capacity. Light rail runs small trains on weird gauges, sometimes rubber tires instead of rails (which eliminates a lot of the efficiency that trains have). They're slow and usually have their own right of way, but not always. Heavy rail always runs on separate right of way.
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Jul 3, 2023 21:25
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Subways are underground rapid transit/metro. Rapid transit vehicles have pretty high capacity, are quite fast and have grade separated networks. Light rail is like a weird combination of rapid transit and a tram. It's faster than a tram, the vehicles are usually higher capacity than a tram, while also being slower than rapid transit and with lower capacities. It also has exclusive right of way but its networks aren't necessarily grade separated and they can run along streets like trams. I believe that the idea of light rail is to adapt rapid transit to lovely American sprawl cities where there's not really enough density for rapid transit to cover everywhere but they're also loving huge and need something faster than trams.
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Jul 3, 2023 21:25
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turn off the TV posted:Subways are underground rapid transit/metro. Rapid transit vehicles have pretty high capacity, are quite fast and have grade separated networks. Light rail is like a weird combination of rapid transit and a tram. It's faster than a tram, the vehicles are usually higher capacity than a tram, while also being slower than rapid transit and with lower capacities. It also has exclusive right of way but its networks aren't necessarily grade separated and they can run along streets like trams. Well, when they're running along streets they are trams. There's no meaningful distinction. There are fully tram networks and fully light rail networks that use the same vehicle models. The primary reason light rail is faster than trams is because separated tracks are better set up and the tracks are more solidly anchored and designed for speed and there's no cars. MikeJF fucked around with this message at 21:40 on Jul 3, 2023 |
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Jul 3, 2023 21:26
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Different cities I assume use different vehicles for their underground mass transit. I think London just uses trains albeit possibly ones with a smaller envelope, but they run, as far as I know, on normal track gauge. The difference presumably being third rail electrification which is not used on the main line (to the extent that it is electrified it uses overhead wires as far as I am aware) and a restricted length because the underground platforms are only as long as they are. I don't think there's anything stopping you running a normal train on the underground as long as you can find some way to power it, or vice versa, and some of the lines go quite a distance out. London also has the docklands light railway, for some reason, and I assume that's an entirely different system. There's also the tyne and wear metro which is apparently "light rail" but literally runs on old standard gauge rail tracks so I don't know why it's called that. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 21:31 on Jul 3, 2023 |
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Jul 3, 2023 21:27
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Heavy rail/metro/rapid transit/subway/el/whatever: Light rail:  That single Yamanote train probably carries more people than that light rail station serves in a day. Grand Fromage fucked around with this message at 21:31 on Jul 3, 2023 |
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Jul 3, 2023 21:29
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The tyne and wear metro wikipedia article has introduced me to the term "de-electrification" which I think shows that we are a nation forsaken by god, cursed and blighted beyond redemption.
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Jul 3, 2023 21:35
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To the extent that light rail is a thing, the distinguishing factor of light rail is people screeching "but cars might have to stop! and wait!". Boston and LA both internally distinguish them even though both are standard gauge for each and large portions of the Boston "subway" system run above ground and large portions of the Boston "light rail" system run through tunnels; both consider their primarily streetcar-derived network light rail and their primarily ex nihilo or standard passenger rail-derived network subway, and both operate longer trains on the portion they consider subway.
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Jul 3, 2023 21:40
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Grand Fromage posted:Light rail:
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Jul 3, 2023 21:43
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Mandoric posted:To the extent that light rail is a thing, the distinguishing factor of light rail is people screeching "but cars might have to stop! and wait!". Boston and LA both internally distinguish them even though both are standard gauge for each and large portions of the Boston "subway" system run above ground and large portions of the Boston "light rail" system run through tunnels; both consider their primarily streetcar-derived network light rail and their primarily ex nihilo or standard passenger rail-derived network subway, and both operate longer trains on the portion they consider subway.  *points* light rail OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 21:46 on Jul 3, 2023 |
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Jul 3, 2023 21:43
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Dwesa posted:how is this different from a tram? They're similar systems and can be interconnected or use the same rolling stock, but usually tram refers to something running on the roads while light rail has its own right of way.
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Jul 3, 2023 21:46
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MikeJF posted:Well, when they're running along streets they are trams. There's no meaningful distinction. There are fully tram networks and fully light rail networks that use the same vehicle models. The primary reason light rail is faster than trams is because separated tracks are better set up and designed for speed and there's no cars. I think that the tram and light rail variations are often built to different specifications, like including couplers.
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Jul 3, 2023 21:50
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Like I said before, light rail is a widely abused term that gets applied to so many things that it is mostly meaningless, but the one characteristic all light rail systems share is low capacity.
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Jul 3, 2023 21:52
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Light rail isn't a bus. Buses are for poor people. Light rail is palatable for the suburbs.
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Jul 3, 2023 21:53
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Dwesa posted:how is this different from a tram?
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Jul 3, 2023 22:19
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Llamadeus posted:They are just fancier trams. You can tell they're trams because they have low floors to facilitate boarding from street level. unless your stock is old like in philly! (thought they claim they are getting low floor stock for the trolley system soon)
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Jul 3, 2023 22:29
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Seems like the trains will be used for regional transport as well.quote:Trains carry large amounts of passengers and cargo and while their infrastructure size makes them better suited for intercity transport, they can be used locally as well. To create train lines you need to first build a Rail Yard, which sends out and maintains your trains, and connect it to the tracks. Trains naturally require tracks to run on and building a train infrastructure is a high initial expense but due to their transport capacities, they more than make up for the initial cost over time. The quote from the dev diary uses the same language as it does for plane travel.
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Jul 3, 2023 22:36
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