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PyRosflam posted:At this point I assume they are making a game for them to play and no one else To be fair, I feel like this is how good MMORPGs get made, rather than the "please everyone" strategy of 2010-2020. I think Pantheon is just in a peculiar spot where they started off with such a bad engine and their vertical slices haven't got anywhere near the traction from investors they wanted to get. The core concepts of Pantheon have always been solid, but they've consistently had incredibly neglectful business and systems ideologies that have ended up with Pantheon looking like dated poo poo. If anything is the downfall, its that, and not the actual "game".
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Jun 29, 2023 04:07
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being a failed game developer myself, it seems to me that getting real honest feedback from players as soon as possible (and pivoting or changing strategy when necessary) is absolutely key. in that sense I think Monsters & Memories will be much more successful as an EQ-like since they opened the flood gates darn pretty quickly for a small test and got real feedback from people who aren't strictly employees or super fans. meanwhile in Pantheon land it seems like they're hobbling along with.. occasional Cohh streams who gushes over how amazing everything will be, some day(TM). maybe whatever investements they've managed to land have had an effect of transforming the game away from something we were initially hyped about. I dunno. every time i see some new bit of news, i get that much less interested in Pantheon 
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Jun 29, 2023 19:40
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Yeah, Monsters & Memories has done absolutely everything correctly so far. Pantheon is an obvious grift, which is why they are only allowing one single person in the public to play it. They know Cohh will shill for absolutely everything, he is a loving tool, but the moment they let anyone else play who is able to form actual thoughts and opinions, I really think the dream of what Pantheon is, would fall apart instantly.
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Jun 29, 2023 20:29
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cmdrk posted:being a failed game developer myself, it seems to me that getting real honest feedback from players as soon as possible (and pivoting or changing strategy when necessary) is absolutely key. in that sense I think Monsters & Memories will be much more successful as an EQ-like since they opened the flood gates darn pretty quickly for a small test and got real feedback from people who aren't strictly employees or super fans. Sure- You know Pantheon is doing Pre-Alpha tests every month with thousands of players right? Also Cohh is an investor for either 100k or 200k, I forget.
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Jun 30, 2023 04:27
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hobocrunch posted:Sure- You know Pantheon is doing Pre-Alpha tests every month with thousands of players right? Also Cohh is an investor for either 100k or 200k, I forget. Who are all under NDA and cant talk about it.
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Jun 30, 2023 04:30
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PyRosflam posted:Who are all under NDA and cant talk about it. That's not what we're talking about though. They were talking about providing feedback to devs. You can still do that in this pre-alpha, that's not what the NDA stops. Furthermore, you can easily see what the game is like from any of the streams they've let happen. I mean it's not hard to see the game is jank as gently caress from them.
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Jun 30, 2023 04:48
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I am just playing Vanguard: Saga of Heroes instead. The emulator server is real good.
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Jun 30, 2023 05:44
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hobocrunch posted:You know Pantheon is doing Pre-Alpha tests every month with thousands of players right? I did not! if they're taking feedback from honest to goodness players, then there's hope. 
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Jun 30, 2023 14:50
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I said come in! posted:I am just playing Vanguard: Saga of Heroes instead. The emulator server is real good. Lol wait really? I thought that never got off the ground I’m gonna have to look into that, I loved Vanguard and preordered it so eagerly back when it first came out, the idea of even a sparsely populated version is pretty compelling
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Jun 30, 2023 20:11
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I said come in! posted:I am just playing Vanguard: Saga of Heroes instead. The emulator server is real good. wait this is real? i don't believe it
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Jun 30, 2023 20:12
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A quick google search indicates that the vanguard server currently has five players online which doesn’t quite seem sufficient for a fun experience
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Jun 30, 2023 20:16
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Frog Act posted:Lol wait really? I thought that never got off the ground I’m gonna have to look into that, I loved Vanguard and preordered it so eagerly back when it first came out, the idea of even a sparsely populated version is pretty compelling Yeah! https://vgoplayers.com/wiki/index.php/Client_Setup it still isn't complete, but it is working really well so far. Not many are playing it, but still higher numbers than the original under Daybreak lol.
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Jun 30, 2023 20:39
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I said come in! posted:Yeah! https://vgoplayers.com/wiki/index.php/Client_Setup it still isn't complete, but it is working really well so far. Not many are playing it, but still higher numbers than the original under Daybreak lol. Wow, really? I thought the state of the emulation was very minimal at this point. Can you give us a trip report on it when you have the time? I reserve a special place in my heart for Vanguard.
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Jun 30, 2023 23:41
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I said come in! posted:Yeah! https://vgoplayers.com/wiki/index.php/Client_Setup it still isn't complete, but it is working really well so far. Not many are playing it, but still higher numbers than the original under Daybreak lol. Awesome thanks, I did really love that game and recently found myself with a lot of free time so I might have to check that out just to experience the Bard music system and some of those insanely memorable starting zones like the one with the pyramids or the kinda generic but just well accomplished northern forest area for the barbarian people
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Jul 1, 2023 01:20
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Frog Act posted:Awesome thanks, I did really love that game and recently found myself with a lot of free time so I might have to check that out just to experience the Bard music system and some of those insanely memorable starting zones like the one with the pyramids or the kinda generic but just well accomplished northern forest area for the barbarian people Do it! This is the MMO that I wish Everquest 2 was, but I love all of the races that EQ2 has.
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Jul 1, 2023 03:42
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I understand they're trying to do the vanilla vanguard experience first but I wish somebody would do something else with it. I don't really care if it's a 1:1 experience with the original product when the original product was a rushed buggy mess. Just do something cool with the monsters/zones and lemme dink around with Brad McQuaid's fever dream of a bard again please. Along with the other wacky classes like blood mage.
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Jul 1, 2023 22:28
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Pantheon really shoulda been Vanguard with the numbers filed off. Say what you will about Brad but he and/or the people he hired were the best class designers in the genre outside of Mythic and nobody else was close.
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Jul 1, 2023 22:55
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cmdrk posted:I did not! if they're taking feedback from honest to goodness players, then there's hope. Honest to goodness players that paid $1000+ to test the game.
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Jul 2, 2023 01:13
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Sachant posted:Honest to goodness players that paid $1000+ to test the game. Look I'm not trying defending them, I just like to have people understand the actual situation. It is people who paid 1k to test this POS game but I just prefer people poo poo on them for their failings rather than misinformation. They are getting testers, the forums are public access though and you can provide feedback from the streams they've let out there, it's not exactly an echo-chamber. The absolute biggest failing from VR is their management and inability to use industry standard tech. If I were to defend VR, the game is in the best spot its ever been, they've got the most people on payroll they've ever had. That being said, the game is still moving at a snail's pace and I expect this loop to happen 2-3 more times (all things going as well as it could for them) before they're finally able to hire 20+ artists and actually get the ball rolling. This slice is just to make the next slice which is just to make the next slice- Until they get real money. MMORPG kickstarters are in practice a scam.
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Jul 2, 2023 07:26
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So how’s this lovely eq / eso merge project going? Still complete bullshit? Cool deal.
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Jul 2, 2023 08:50
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hobocrunch posted:Look I'm not trying defending them, I just like to have people understand the actual situation. It is people who paid 1k to test this POS game but I just prefer people poo poo on them for their failings rather than misinformation. They are getting testers, the forums are public access though and you can provide feedback from the streams they've let out there, it's not exactly an echo-chamber. Your options to give feedback on the game are either to pay $1000 to see it yourself, or watch a sponsored stream intended to portray the game in as positive a light as possible, and then in either case go complain about something on the forum only to be dogpiled by everyone else who paid $1000 or more and want to defend their "investment". That isn't exactly candid and productive testing feedback.
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Jul 2, 2023 18:27
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Node posted:Wow, really? I thought the state of the emulation was very minimal at this point. Can you give us a trip report on it when you have the time? I reserve a special place in my heart for Vanguard. I check in every 6 months or so. Development is slow and prodding, but it is still moving along. The big thing slowing it down is that 1) it's a passion project of a small team of unpaid part time volunteers 2) trying to recreate a whole bunch of systems wholecloth because the core database for things like skills and quests and equipment that were never really datamined before its shutdown to the degree of most bigger MMOs did. Between the original SOE shutdown and multiple sell-offs of the IP and computers/hardware to several other companies, I bet most of the original design documents, patch notes, and source assets are lost to time. I don't think it's ever going to be done, but it could be good to gently caress around in with goons for a couple weeks living through nostalgia. DeathSandwich fucked around with this message at 04:24 on Jul 4, 2023 |
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Jul 4, 2023 04:18
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Sachant posted:Your options to give feedback on the game are either to pay $1000 to see it yourself, or watch a sponsored stream intended to portray the game in as positive a light as possible, and then in either case go complain about something on the forum only to be dogpiled by everyone else who paid $1000 or more and want to defend their "investment". That isn't exactly candid and productive testing feedback. Are you really saying your voice is unheard over the plethora of people that spent $1000? I think the issue is nobody gives a gently caress to try, more than anything. If the people who spent $1000 out number people who didn't then, the game is theirs anyhow. Who cares.
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Jul 4, 2023 06:56
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DeathSandwich posted:I check in every 6 months or so. Development is slow and prodding, but it is still moving along. The big thing slowing it down is that 1) it's a passion project of a small team of unpaid part time volunteers 2) trying to recreate a whole bunch of systems wholecloth because the core database for things like skills and quests and equipment that were never really datamined before its shutdown to the degree of most bigger MMOs did. That's what I figured. Which is really sad. I hate the idea of a game you can't really play ever again. Daybreak has all the Vanguard data sitting on some old dusty server somewhere and they're just doing nothing with it. If you just did some basic fixing of the engine so it performed better, they'd have a huge MMORPG ready for people to subscribe to.
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Jul 5, 2023 01:13
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Node posted:That's what I figured. Which is really sad. I hate the idea of a game you can't really play ever again. Considering how many idiots like me still pay them to play EverQuest on annually released new progression servers.. there’s gotta be some reason they haven’t started doing this with vanguard, right? Maybe they just don’t expect the nostalgia to be there but I’m willing to bet a good chunk of TLP EQ players would jump at the chance to experience a fresh server launch. It honestly might be that daybreaks’ sub fee covers all of their games, and they very much are in maintaining mode for most of their games / unable to fix what mess the vanguard code was left in.
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Jul 5, 2023 01:59
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Node posted:That's what I figured. Which is really sad. I hate the idea of a game you can't really play ever again. You dont know how many firms have totally lost stuff like entire source codes, its 100% reasonable that they have no way to get it up and running. There could even be some funny stuff like assets in formats that don't exist anymore blocking normal tools like 3DStudioMax. Getting Vanguard up and running means not only the source code, but all the tools, Hacks, and so much more are lost to history and they dont have the staff with skills to start this.
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Jul 5, 2023 02:40
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I wish we as fans / consumers, could get some sort of response from DayBreak & Darkpaw (the current owners of the Evequest IP) about this stuff. But neither are big on communication. if I had to guess, I would say they run a very tight ship and do not have the staff to dedicate to anything but what they have right now.
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Jul 5, 2023 03:30
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I said come in! posted:I wish we as fans / consumers, could get some sort of response from DayBreak & Darkpaw (the current owners of the Evequest IP) about this stuff. But neither are big on communication. if I had to guess, I would say they run a very tight ship and do not have the staff to dedicate to anything but what they have right now. The few times we see real change in EQ, we get an offical announcement, some stuff on test a few weeks ahead of a TLP, and thats about it. Lots of level design is copy / paste of old zones for new Xpacs (return to X!). Whats funny is EQ is still the biggest game on the balance sheet. But they only put in a fraction of the work, totally ignore botting, hacking, or even doing a dedicated GM, and that chases away players of all types since you can be sitting on xyz camp and bam, stolen by a bot team. (O ya item is totally for sale for Kr, ignore that we sit on the camp 24 / 7). So the game is both highly profitable, and totally ignored and treated as a cash cow.
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Jul 5, 2023 13:33
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And Vanguard’s code was a poo poo show before shutdown. There was a handful of devs working and they’d still occasionally break stuff when messing with old code. Like the time they were trying to streamline some character speed stuff and accidentally caused all player characters to baby step while all the mobs sprinted regardless of their intended behavior. Or the time they broke damage rune absorption in abilities and inadvertently caused a specific piece of equipment to make a player character unkillable when worn. So even if they put it live again, I highly doubt it would’ve ever see any work on it.
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Jul 9, 2023 04:11
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ZixTheYeti posted:And Vanguard’s code was a poo poo show before shutdown. There was a handful of devs working and they’d still occasionally break stuff when messing with old code. Like the time they were trying to streamline some character speed stuff and accidentally caused all player characters to baby step while all the mobs sprinted regardless of their intended behavior. Or the time they broke damage rune absorption in abilities and inadvertently caused a specific piece of equipment to make a player character unkillable when worn. So even if they put it live again, I highly doubt it would’ve ever see any work on it. So do we have any idea if the people working on the emulator have a custom vanguard code, or did they pick a release that didn't have any glaring issues like that you described?
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Jul 9, 2023 04:34
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Node posted:So do we have any idea if the people working on the emulator have a custom vanguard code, or did they pick a release that didn't have any glaring issues like that you described? From what I’ve seen from personally puttering around on the emulator, they have their own code with some stuff probably carried over. I know a few things were datamined but not implemented yet, like abilities not working or mobs doing next to nothing. Additionally, it wouldn’t surprise me if half of the code was missing because a lot was datamined but the game was HUGE with some of the content and mechanics tucked away, so I’m pretty sure there’s stuff having to be recreated whole cloth. Edit: I also haven’t been on the emulated server in a couple years so I might not have an accurate assessment on their current status. As far as the code goes, they won’t have near the convoluted mess that the original game had but they will be having to rebuild a lot of it with their own tools. ZixTheYeti fucked around with this message at 07:45 on Jul 9, 2023 |
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Jul 9, 2023 06:04
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The emulator now feels pretty close to the live server. Lots of stuff works now and what doesnt probably didnt work on live anyways.
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Jul 9, 2023 13:59
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Haven't logged in to the server, but I peaked over at their forums and it looks like they've gotten quite a bit done. I'll have to pop on some time soon and get a dose of nostalgia.
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Jul 9, 2023 16:05
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This months' Pantheon pre alpha test doesn't even have a new patch with it, just a continuation of last month's. What's they're working on is really eating up a ton of time or not going well, or both.
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Jul 15, 2023 23:28
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Rumblings from the Discord of people leaking things from the VIP sections is that the entirety of Pantheon is undergoing an art style change atm. Which on paper I'm not opposed to, but man feels like something that REALLY should've been settled a long time ago instead of.. right now.
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Aug 13, 2023 22:06
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Where do these guys get the funding for a revamp like that? Last I heard, they don't have the Chris Roberts money pit to jump into.
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Aug 13, 2023 22:35
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The art design of the game is going to be created by an AI
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Aug 14, 2023 05:04
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Cardboard Fox posted:Where do these guys get the funding for a revamp like that? Last I heard, they don't have the Chris Roberts money pit to jump into. they got an additional 2.4 million in private funding about a year ago lol
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Aug 14, 2023 18:14
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PrinnySquad posted:Rumblings from the Discord of people leaking things from the VIP sections is that the entirety of Pantheon is undergoing an art style change atm. Which on paper I'm not opposed to, but man feels like something that REALLY should've been settled a long time ago instead of.. right now. Confirmed lol https://www.pantheonmmo.com/newsletter/_2023/august/ quote:Greetings Pantheon Fans,
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Aug 31, 2023 13:55
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Ten years in the making and we get... WoW.
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Aug 31, 2023 18:25
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