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Cythereal posted:Wrong thread. whoops, lmao, so many of the same people in these two threads I got confused. 
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Jul 3, 2023 22:46
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Aces High posted:I think SC1 EU stuff (whether it was a book or a comic, I do not remember) showed that if a captured Terran didn't even have a sufficient psionic makeup they would basically go brain dead from the zergification process, and so the only use the Overmind could think up was to turn them into man-powered IEDs. The story I specifically remember this for was one where Kerrigan captured a UED medic and was experimenting to see if she could get the same results as the Overmind got when creating the Queen of Blades. After a certain point, the medic's personality got erased and Kerrigan's reaction was basically that Top Gear meme Actually, I thought the entire point of Kerrigan is that she is psionic which is why she got turned into the Queen of Blades. Non-psionic humans are only good for cannon-fodder in Zerg eyes.
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Jul 3, 2023 22:47
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painedforever posted:Actually, I thought the entire point of Kerrigan is that she is psionic which is why she got turned into the Queen of Blades. Non-psionic humans are only good for cannon-fodder in Zerg eyes. Kerrigan was an exceptional psionic, but not a unique one. Psionic power is a latent thing among Terrans in general and quite a few of them had the gift to use it. It's why the Zerg invaded them in the first place.
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Jul 3, 2023 23:20
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Isn't that a character in the zerg campaign's origins? Isha is said medic?
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Jul 3, 2023 23:24
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Tenebrais posted:Kerrigan was an exceptional psionic, but not a unique one. Psionic power is a latent thing among Terrans in general and quite a few of them had the gift to use it. It's why the Zerg invaded them in the first place. Weren't the Ghosts in general implied or outright stated to be psionic? Though I think that's all we ever really see of it in Starcraft. Its also probably common among the Terrans in Starcraft because the Terrans are ancestors of the mutants and criminals launched out from Earth in colony ships, meaning they probably had a statistically larger number of psionically capable people among them from the get go.
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Jul 3, 2023 23:40
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PurpleXVI posted:Weren't the Ghosts in general implied or outright stated to be psionic? Though I think that's all we ever really see of it in Starcraft. Its also probably common among the Terrans in Starcraft because the Terrans are ancestors of the mutants and criminals launched out from Earth in colony ships, meaning they probably had a statistically larger number of psionically capable people among them from the get go. Every Ghost is psionic, the various governments try to track down and grab all psionics and make them Ghosts or possibly other stuff but there must be some leakage and such.
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Jul 4, 2023 01:06
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so basically Inquisition and psykers from 40k, with Ghosts being sanctioned psykers.
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Jul 4, 2023 01:25
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Szarrukin posted:so basically Inquisition and psykers from 40k, with Ghosts being sanctioned psykers. Sanctioned pysker with a side of Vindicare assassin.
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Jul 4, 2023 01:46
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Szarrukin posted:so basically Inquisition and psykers from 40k, with Ghosts being sanctioned psykers. Other human polities have different laws. The Umojans don't conscript psychics, but they still have a lot of them (because psychics tend to flee to the protectorate, since being psychic in the Dominion means you get kidnapped.) Their ghost-equivalents are a lot more powerful, since they don't dehumanize and mind wipe them.
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Jul 4, 2023 02:05
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PurpleXVI posted:God, a Diablo novel. Teenage me thought the first one was interesting. It actually took and expanded on the legend of Bartuc the Bloody that's mentioned in the games, and has a pretty good resolution, with a unique fight. The Starcraft books are up and down. Jeff Grubb (always a pretty drat good author) did Liberties Crusade, which is basically a novelization of the first game from the perspective of a reporter that's attached to the Mar Sara colony after pissing off old Confederate power brokers. He ends up wrapped in Raynors crew for the book, but it does dig into the lore that Marines are (or were) reformed criminals. At one point he's running around with a military adjutant, and after some bribery finds out her crimes. The only other books I remember are "Speed of Darkness" from Tracy Hickman (one of the writers behind ye-olde dragonlance). Not great. I remember giving it a few tries before tossing it aside. The other is "I, Mengsk" which I've heard good things of, but didn't read. I think it was written in the run up to Starcraft 2 coming out. That one is written by the Black Libraries Graham McNeil.
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Jul 4, 2023 02:41
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Calax posted:The only other books I remember are "Speed of Darkness" from Tracy Hickman (one of the writers behind ye-olde dragonlance). Not great. I remember giving it a few tries before tossing it aside. You should've just stuck with it, then eventually Yahweh would've dropped by to resolve the plot after turning out to have been the most intolerable and awful comedy relief character all along.
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Jul 4, 2023 03:08
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PurpleXVI posted:Weren't the Ghosts in general implied or outright stated to be psionic? Though I think that's all we ever really see of it in Starcraft. Its also probably common among the Terrans in Starcraft because the Terrans are ancestors of the mutants and criminals launched out from Earth in colony ships, meaning they probably had a statistically larger number of psionically capable people among them from the get go. The really hosed up thing is that Raynor had a son who was psionic, got nabbed by the Confederacy, and died in a Ghost training accident. This never, ever comes up in game. Calax posted:The only other books I remember are "Speed of Darkness" from Tracy Hickman (one of the writers behind ye-olde dragonlance). Not great. I remember giving it a few tries before tossing it aside. The other is "I, Mengsk" which I've heard good things of, but didn't read. I think it was written in the run up to Starcraft 2 coming out. That one is written by the Black Libraries Graham McNeil. I, Mengsk is funny as hell because you get to see a teenaged Mengsk get duped by an army recruiter, and also Valerian trains under an honest to god Japanese sensei.
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Jul 4, 2023 03:13
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Jul 4, 2023 03:35
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BisbyWorl posted:and also Valerian trains under an honest to god Japanese sensei. This... somehow explains so much.
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Jul 4, 2023 10:09
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PurpleXVI posted:Weren't the Ghosts in general implied or outright stated to be psionic? Though I think that's all we ever really see of it in Starcraft. Its also probably common among the Terrans in Starcraft because the Terrans are ancestors of the mutants and criminals launched out from Earth in colony ships, meaning they probably had a statistically larger number of psionically capable people among them from the get go. Like most fascist dictatorships the UED had no problem conscripting ghosts from their populace, if the state can make use of it, they'll ignore their own propaganda. But the Koprulu sector is inherently rich in a number of substances that boost or otherwise enhance latent psionic abilities, possibly due to the Protoss, or perhaps some other race. This stands as one of the possible explanations why the Terran populace of the sector has experienced an explosion of psionic individuals, with some theorising that the majority of the race will be psionically adept within a few generations.
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Jul 4, 2023 10:10
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In the manual for starcraft 1, the ships that carried the terrans to the Korpulu sector had an extremely rare mutation that lead to the development of psychic powers. It also notes that at this time this mutation had not been expressed on earth. Mind you, this is likely because the UED killed anyone else who could have it, given their genocide of 400 million people that specifically targeted those with mutations like that.
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Jul 4, 2023 10:42
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Psionic Terrans get quite a bit of focus in SC2, we just always seem to vote for the missions that won't nab us our first important psionic character!
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Jul 4, 2023 11:24
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Torrannor posted:Psionic Terrans get quite a bit of focus in SC2, we just always seem to vote for the missions that won't nab us our first important psionic character! Because he's an awful racist stereotype and I, for one, have been actively voting to delay him joining as long as possible.
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Jul 4, 2023 12:49
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Cythereal posted:Because he's an awful racist stereotype and I, for one, have been actively voting to delay him joining as long as possible. No doubt about it, but it's kind of strange to try to cover the subject of psionic humans now when have a big lore dump covering that topic coming up 
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Jul 4, 2023 13:02
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painedforever posted:Actually, I thought the entire point of Kerrigan is that she is psionic which is why she got turned into the Queen of Blades. Non-psionic humans are only good for cannon-fodder in Zerg eyes. the short story goes into this, actually. if you're able to find an archive of it (probably not too challenging, but I'm not sure if out-of-print magazines count as  and so I can't link one of the places I found it while googling last night), half of the story is Kerrigan remembering how the initial selection process went for her being entered into the Ghost program. the Medic exists because Kerrigan observes the things she does and thinks "oh poo poo, maybe she's the one, I made similar choices in similar circumstances and did similar psychic things and look what I became!" but whatever virus or mutagen Kerrigan is using on the captured Terrans doesn't work and so the medic just becomes another mindless drone.Incidentally, the text describes Kerrigan as effectively being ugly and grotesque, from the medic's perspective, with little tidbits like "she may have been seen as attractive once" and it reminds me that one of the things I always liked about Kerrigan pre-Wings of Liberty was that she was never really sexualized (my recollection). Her ghost model showed her in a slender profile, but all the ghosts were like that because they're infiltrators, they don't need all the 40k power armour because that's not how they do their jobs. When she transforms into the Queen of Blades, she still has a Terran physique but she still looks like a soldier. I remember when WoL first came out and my immediate reaction upon seeing Kerrigan's full model was "....oh, well that, that's not the queen bitch I've had in my mind for the past decade. that sucks"
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Jul 4, 2023 13:38
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Yeah, you can see how the "evil female villain becomes prettier over time" progression goes. This was Kerrigan in SC1  This was her by brood war.  And this is her right now. 
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Jul 4, 2023 13:54
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Aces High posted:the short story goes into this, actually. if you're able to find an archive of it (probably not too challenging, but I'm not sure if out-of-print magazines count as Outside of the box art, I can only really find one time where we see Kerrigan as something other than a tiny, crusty sprite prior to Starcraft 2. About the only parts of her that still look remotely human are the legs, hands and face, everything else is more insecty chitin than anything.
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Jul 4, 2023 14:17
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I could never make heads or tails of Kerrigan's initial infested design because it looked to me like a punk rocker went onto the set of a power rangers episode.
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Jul 4, 2023 14:17
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NewMars posted:Yeah, you can see how the "evil female villain becomes prettier over time" progression goes. What's weirdest about this progression, to me, is that it sort of implies that someone in charge at Blizzard wasn't always a monster. If they had been, they'd have sexualized and objectified Kerrigan from the start. Instead we get a visually striking chart of their descent into depravity.
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Jul 4, 2023 14:38
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LLSix posted:What's weirdest about this progression, to me, is that it sort of implies that someone in charge at Blizzard wasn't always a monster. If they had been, they'd have sexualized and objectified Kerrigan from the start. Instead we get a visually striking chart of their descent into depravity. No doubt but I also think the recasting of Kerrigan with Tricia Helfer factored into the sexualized new design of Kerrigan for SC2. Battlestar Galatica finished a year before WOL Came out right? So it would of still been fresh in the minds of nerds and Blizzard game devs.
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Jul 4, 2023 14:48
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Cythereal posted:Because he's an awful racist stereotype and I, for one, have been actively voting to delay him joining as long as possible. Blizzard surely loves their Jamaican stereotypes. I wonder if they managed to put one in Diablo.
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Jul 4, 2023 15:06
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Szarrukin posted:Blizzard surely loves their Jamaican stereotypes. I wonder if they managed to put one in Diablo. I think so? PurpleXVI posted:Outside of the box art, I can only really find one time where we see Kerrigan as something other than a tiny, crusty sprite prior to Starcraft 2. About the only parts of her that still look remotely human are the legs, hands and face, everything else is more insecty chitin than anything. There's also the campaign select from brood war:  (I could have sworn she was barefooted, but without high hills.
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Jul 4, 2023 15:22
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PurpleXVI posted:Outside of the box art, I can only really find one time where we see Kerrigan as something other than a tiny, crusty sprite prior to Starcraft 2. About the only parts of her that still look remotely human are the legs, hands and face, everything else is more insecty chitin than anything. That's not actually true! You can see her in the brood war campaign menu and she looks like this.  Edit: whoops got sniped.
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Jul 4, 2023 15:32
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Gun Jam posted:I think so? Huh! I completely forgot that one. But yeah I will say that is already well towards making her design horny, considering that her "chitin" coincidentally looks like a corset.
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Jul 4, 2023 15:40
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PurpleXVI posted:Huh! I completely forgot that one. But yeah I will say that is already well towards making her design horny, considering that her "chitin" coincidentally looks like a corset. That reads as the remnants of her ghost suit to me? It's definitely gone for an amount of sexy clothing damage though. Just that under it she's just a green lady. Which isn't a surprise, given Sylvanas and Widowmaker later on...
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Jul 4, 2023 15:44
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Old Kerrigan is actually worse since she is just a sexy green lady with armor and boneclaws on her back lol. Sure high heels are dumb but the rest is actually a bit more gross on sc2 Kerrigan what with the whole exposed muscle look I think.
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Jul 4, 2023 15:49
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Oddly enough I've never noticed she had four wing spikes
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Jul 4, 2023 16:04
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NewMars posted:That's not actually true! You can see her in the brood war campaign menu and she looks like this. Is that the OG one? I could've sworn the Remake touched up that model a bit. Specifically, I recall thinking that her clothes were cleaned up and looked more like clothes, and her boots looked more military in design. Since all I see now is SCR, it's tricky to separate the OG from the Remake (except the unit profiles, those will stay with me until I die)
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Jul 4, 2023 16:59
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Speaking of whitewashing, Jim's sprite in SC1 looks plausibly African or middle eastern or something.
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Jul 4, 2023 17:07
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Aces High posted:Is that the OG one? I could've sworn the Remake touched up that model a bit. Specifically, I recall thinking that her clothes were cleaned up and looked more like clothes, and her boots looked more military in design. Since all I see now is SCR, it's tricky to separate the OG from the Remake (except the unit profiles, those will stay with me until I die) I checked and yeah, that's the original one. Remastered, for comparison:
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Jul 4, 2023 18:49
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No high heels. Still, even in the older pictures, she's "sexy lady with alien bits on". Except for the claws. Those are nicer on the remaster. The things on the back though... they seem to have a "fallen angel wings" look to them, don't they? Like bat wings that lost their membrane thingies. In the older renders, they look like weird claw things, and I think they're rendered more like a cape when she's moving?
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Jul 4, 2023 22:07
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I’m going to just blame Abathur for everything.
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Jul 5, 2023 09:44
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Cythereal posted:Because he's an awful racist stereotype and I, for one, have been actively voting to delay him joining as long as possible. Funnily enough, you did actually make a difference last time!  Unfortunately, there's a bit too big of a gap this time. We are heading to Redstone.
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Jul 5, 2023 14:13
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Unit Spotlight: Firebat
Right off the bat, they cost twice as many minerals and supply than they did in SC1. They attack slower. They lost access to Stimpacks. They have competition for Armored infantry in Marauders. But remember when I said that Firebats can attack far slower than their stats implied? I'll have to get into the nitty gritty for this.  Behold: A normal Firebat attack. Looks just fine, right? Well, not quite. If you take a closer look...  There, that brief moment where one Firebat sorta 'snaps' to a new target? That dooms the Firebat, even if they had all the stats in the world. See, the Firebat's attack can be broken down into a few parts. First they aim, then they wait, then they fire. If the enemy they target dies during during those first two steps, the Firebat is forced to aquire a new target and reset their attack animation. If you have, say, a bunch of Marines on hand to pour on some damage, well...  You end up with any Firebats constantly cutting their own attack to retarget, making their effective attack speed drop like a rock. This means that Firebats are complete garbage at dealing with swarms of low HP enemies, as it just gives them more targets to reset on. Which, you know, makes them useless at their entire loving niche. Now, you could, in theory, stuff a Firebat in a Bunker to completely skip over their attack animation and actually be able to do something. Except Marauders exist, and combining Concussive Shells with Firebats means the majority of that extra time needed for an enemy to get close will be effectively wasted as they slowly inch into range. Armory Upgrades:  Incinerator Gauntlets
Oh great, now your Firebats can hit a few more guys the 1-2 times they manage to attack in a fight.  Juggernaut Plating
And they can take more punishment while anything and everything is allowed to beat on them! Provided they're able to attack and draw aggro, that is. Mercenary: Devil Dogs  These ex-Confederate firebats have fought on dozens of worlds over the last four years. They don't care about causes, only cash.
However, this involves burning 110K credits on Firebats. Spend your money literally anywhere else. Field Manual Artwork 
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Jul 5, 2023 15:23
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Firebats always kind of felt like the apex of Starcraft's design. Like, even if they were never super useful, the design felt like if all the designs of Starcraft were an evolutionary tree, Firebats would be the only extant modern survivor, evolved into a very specific niche and perhaps living off a single type off moss only found in a cave in Paraguay... I think the metaphor ran away from me, but you get what I mean(I hope). Their design was strong, in the original mostly in the concept art, but still.
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Jul 5, 2023 16:11
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