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I am intrigued by the idea of installing a whole house fan. I want cool the second floor of my house in evening with out turning my first floor into an ice box via the AC. This olde house makes it seem like a simple install. Fish some 12-3 romex into the attic, add circuit, cut hole, install fan. How would I figure out if there is enough ventilation in my attic to support the fan? I have ridge vents, soffit vents and gable vents which got mostly closed up when the roofers installed the ridge vent.
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Jun 21, 2023 13:01
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I would assume that as long as the total area of all holes where air can get into of the attic are at least as large as the area of the fan blowing air out of the attic you should be alright? E: I'm also intrigued by the idea of a house fan. I live in a 3-story souterrain house without AC where the lowest lever/semi-basement is pleasantly cool, while the top floor where the master bedroom is gets pretty toasty right about this time of year. It's not super obvious how I would manage airflow neatly though since all outer walls and floors are reinforced concrete. Attic roof is wood and so are the gables up there though, but the only easy air path into the attic is though the hatch. I suppose I could just leave that cracked open during the summer and simply install a fan blowing air either out the gable or through the roof, that shouldn't be too hard to do and would draw cooler air into the bedrooms up there at least. Worth looking into I think. Invalido fucked around with this message at 15:41 on Jun 21, 2023 |
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Jun 21, 2023 15:22
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Ducted mini split unit in my attic is leaking water, not at the unit but thru one of the vents which is about 20 ducted feet away. Mitsubishi SVZ-KP18NA I’m guessing the condensate line is clogged…the pan under the unit is bone dry but the drain pipe has water condensing on the outside. When I look at the ductwork there’s also some condensation. Trying to figure out what to do. The drain leads to my gutters on the second floor outside. Maybe get a ladder up outside and see if I can shop vac the area to reduce any potential clog? The pipe work doesn’t appear to be able to taken apart.  Edit: I got up to the gutter and there doesn’t appear to be any obstruction. The pvc pipe at the edit appears unclogged and was dripping probably 120 drips per minute. It’s pretty humid and hot today so I’m wondering if it’s something else, but that shouldn’t allow the vents to drip water…the system should take that water out of the system and dehumidify it, right? There’s a whole other problem in that picture. The drip pan doesn’t cover enough space. The exposed copper line is condensing water and dripping right next to the pan on the plywood. The high today was 87 with 67% humidity. I feel like an ac system should be able to handle that. Especially one that was installed 3 years ago and serviced last June. nwin fucked around with this message at 01:28 on Jul 4, 2023 |
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Jul 4, 2023 01:05
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The condensate drain can be restricted but not blocked. It needs to be shut down, pull front cover and clean the drain path.
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Jul 4, 2023 01:28
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Is it uninsulated? Looks insulated in the picture, but wasn’t sure if that continues. My first gut reaction is you don’t have a leak, you have condensation on a cold duct. If it is insulated, look for any rips or tears because you can still get condensation if even a little bit of insulation is missing.
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Jul 4, 2023 01:31
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MRC48B posted:The condensate drain can be restricted but not blocked. It needs to be shut down, pull front cover and clean the drain path. Thanks. The drain path…do you mean the pvc pipe? Or the coil? Here’s the manual: https://www.mitsubishitechinfo.ca/sites/default/files/SH_SVZ-KP12_36NA_202203.pdf And here’s the schematic compared to the above picture:  I opened up the part marked “filter” because it could be easily undone and didn’t see anything apparent there. The coil part is where the pvc pipe exits and requires removing screws. Edit: I can’t find a video specific to my model but from what I can tell, behind the cover marked “coil” there should be the coil and a drain pan which goes into the pvc pipe. I’m thinking I need to get to that part, drain the pan and try to clear the pipe, correct? nwin fucked around with this message at 02:04 on Jul 4, 2023 |
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Jul 4, 2023 01:42
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Are you talking about the drops of water from the area circled in red? If so: That's the lineset, it's what moves the refrigerant between the evaporator coil in your attic and the condensing coil on the outside of your house. When in operation, some or all of it can get very cold, and will cause condensation to form from the air, that's why it should be insulated thoroughly. You can see the insulation has been pulled back a bit and that's letting air get to it and the humidity to condensate like on a cold drink. To fix this, you'll need to insulate the exposed lines.
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Jul 4, 2023 04:42
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Invalido posted:. I live in a 3-story souterrain house
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Jul 4, 2023 06:12
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SpartanIvy posted:Are you talking about the drops of water from the area circled in red? No, I noticed that and moved the insulation down a bit. I’ll see if it drips at the newly exposed part. It was leaking they a bedroom vent which is the one farthest from the air handler, maybe 20 feet+? We put a bucket down overnight and it didn’t fill much at all.   That duct all the way in the back goes another 10-15 feet to the duct shown in the above picture. None of the other ducts (2 others) were showing any condensation, which is weird because I figured the shorter it has to travel the more water, but maybe the air was drying those out faster? In any case, it’s raining today so I can’t get outside to try and shop vac the condensate line going to the upstairs gutter, but I took apart the unit itself and didn’t see much water in there at all:  Everything’s put back together and if I can get up there after the rain, I’ll try and shop vac the line, but the plan is to get someone out here to service it and maybe make that condensate line more accessible somehow…add some kind of connection I can get into in order to blow the line out or something every 6 months…not sure. nwin fucked around with this message at 13:48 on Jul 4, 2023 |
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Jul 4, 2023 13:45
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nwin posted:No, I noticed that and moved the insulation down a bit. I’ll see if it drips at the newly exposed part. I think you might be looking at this from the wrong angle - if there were enough condensation in the air handler to somehow overflow into a duct 20 feet away, the entire thing would be full of water and not actually working. Pull that vent off the ceiling (from inside). I bet you'll find either giant gaps leading to the attic, or the duct itself has been pulled off. My thinking is the warm humid air from the attic is meeting the cold air and causing condensation.
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Jul 4, 2023 14:17
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Getting quotes to replace our two AC systems and looks like we're narrowed down to two companies/estimates. We have a 5-ton and a 2-ton, the 5 is still cooling (poorly) but definitely needs replaced, the 2-ton only runs our upstairs bonus room and still does that well so I'm not keen on changing it out now but my wife is of the opinion to just knock them both out at the same time. These are 20 year old R22 Lennox units with gas furnaces. The furnaces/air handlers are horizontal units that hang from my garage ceiling. First company uses Comfortmaker, $7800 for the 5-ton and $6000 for the 2-ton for 15 Seer straight cool systems. Second company uses Rheem, $8900 for the 5-ton and $6800 for the 2-ton, also 15 Seer straight cool. I like the contractors, both came recommended from friends or neighbors they did work for. Scope of work seems the same between the two, both say they're doing new condenser slabs, overflow pans, float switches, and pipe insulation. What else do I need to be asking to make sure they're doing? Any strong opinions here on Rheem vs Comfortmaker?
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Jul 4, 2023 14:33
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Final Blog Entry posted:Any strong opinions here on Rheem vs Comfortmaker? Comfortmaker is a very very budget brand of the parent company of Carrier, a brand I would avoid to begin with. The actual units/part numbers/what level/quality is going to be important to understand both what is being proposed and how they compare to each other. If they are similar in level/quality I'd go with the Rheem. But in the end what matters more than anything else is the actual install and how well its done.
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Jul 4, 2023 14:54
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devicenull posted:I think you might be looking at this from the wrong angle - if there were enough condensation in the air handler to somehow overflow into a duct 20 feet away, the entire thing would be full of water and not actually working.  That makes a ton of sense.   Looks like they hosed up the initial cut for the vent and didn’t bother to do anything about it. The actual duct seems fine and intact.
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Jul 4, 2023 14:56
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If you can reach it from the attic, easiest fix is just going to be surrounding it with spray foam.
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Jul 4, 2023 18:27
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devicenull posted:If you can reach it from the attic, easiest fix is just going to be surrounding it with spray foam. Thanks! Glad I know more about my system, but also glad to know the true problem.
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Jul 4, 2023 18:48
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Hey Hvac thread, I got a problem with my AC I live in a condo building (I own, not rent) and my AC and heat are supplied by the building via a chiller (and boiler I guess?) system. Recently my ac hasn't been working the way it should. Like its struggling to keep my place at 21.5 communist degrees (not quite sure what that is in USA freedom units but probably like 75 ish. A few years back with help from this thread I replaced the thermostat and everything was fine. Heat in winter, cold in summer. Recently I've noticed two things: When my system turns on, there is a very loud click, that is usually not so loud, and its not very cold. Thus far I have taken off the cover panels, and discovered that the air coming off the heat exchanger is *fairly* cold. Probably whatever would be considered normal, this is it. When the fan is turned on and air blowing in to my face, its cold. But when it goes up the uhh ducting to the outlets its way warmer. So looking up in to the ducting, I noticed that there are some metal coils, presumably for extra(?) heating, that they are glowing hot. Like the burner on a stove. Thus I have found my problem of how the cold air is getting warmed before it comes out the vents. Coincidentally, a few weeks ago when this started happening, I noticed a bit if a burning smell when the unit started. Probably coinciding with these heating coils starting up after having sat, and a bunch of dust getting burned off of them. This is also about the time that the Valve actuator "the thing" started clicking considerably louder than it normally does. As is my understanding the building provides heat via hot water through the same pipes as it does for the cold water, and these heating coils are for...... a bit of auxiliary heat? I have no idea. And the valve actuator just opens a valve that lets hot or cold water flow through the heat exchanger. So I guess my questions are: What would be making these coils start heating? Obviously they are getting electricity from somewhere. This might be dumb, could a malfunctioning valve actuator both open the valve and also send a signal to these heat coils to start heating? Could the thermostat be malfunctioning somehow? Its only a couple years old, but its just a cheap honeywell something or other Fake edit: this one https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B003U4OPRW/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o09_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 If the thermostat was cheaper I'd just say gently caress it, buy a new one of the same model and plug that poo poo in to see if the problem lies with that, but in the mean time I'm open to other suggestions about what to do, if only temporarily. I feel like just pulling the wires for the heating coils would be the thing to do for now, but I maybe thats not that great of an idea. Real edit: Heres the wiring diagram if that helps  Further edit in case someone asks, the heat coils stay on whether I have the thermostat set to heat, cool or auto., but shut off when the system shuts off. wesleywillis fucked around with this message at 20:38 on Jul 4, 2023 |
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Jul 4, 2023 20:24
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It's most likely the thermostat is bad or the wiring. Remove W (white - the heat wires) W2 (could be any color, may not exist but that's second stage hear) and E (emergency heat, could be any color - it's my guess this is what's turning on those coils) from your thermostat and see if you can get AC working.
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Jul 4, 2023 20:40
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Before I do so: The wiring goes from the thermostat through the wall and down to a terminal strip where the small (20-22?) gauge wires attach and on the other side are larger (12-14?) gauge wires come out before going in to a box. It probably doesn't matter a poo poo, but does it make a difference if I remove it from the terminal strip instead? No biggie if it doesn't. I suppose there might be a small amount of voltage in there, but I can tape it off. Or just remove the fuckin thing from the stat since I have that off too. Second thing, the wires going up to the heat coils are black and white. In my limited experience with household wiring, black is usually hot and white is neutral. Does it matter in this case? The bigger wires that come off the terminal strip go in to a box and some even bigger gauge blacks and whites come out of the box and go up to the heat coils. E: removed the white at the thermostat, turned power back on and got nothing. No power as indicated by the stat having no display or anything. Plugged it back in, turned power on and poo poo started back up like normal. wesleywillis fucked around with this message at 21:09 on Jul 4, 2023 |
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Jul 4, 2023 20:57
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wesleywillis posted:Before I do so: I'm sure either will be fine, but that's a good place to eliminate or further investigate failures. wesleywillis posted:Second thing, the wires going up to the heat coils are black and white. In my limited experience with household wiring, black is usually hot and white is neutral. I'm sure black and white going to the resistance heat are mains voltage 120c/neutral or perhaps even 240v. But none of that should be at your stat: that should be entirely 24vac if I'm reading your diagram properly. The E wire your stat is connected to should be energizing the control side of a contactor that sends mains voltage to that heater grid. And I bet that really loud click is from that very contactor.
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Jul 4, 2023 21:10
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Background: Late 1980's home call it 3400-ish sq ft* colonial style house. Baseboard radiant (Nat Gas) heat. Boiler original to house, but drat does it keep it warm in here during the worst of N. VT winters (will occasionally dip to solid below 0 F for a couple weeks, -20F windchill not uncommon). ` *Not sure if this sq ft calc includes what we dub the sunroom... which was sort of a 3/4 season porch with jacuzzi that is "insulated" (but not on a slab) with a poo poo ton of lovely windows. Kitchen also does not have heat, but with an upcoming kitchen reno, we hope to at least partially address that. This is a comparatively big house, and I want to do something about cooling. Currently, window units will certainly get the bedrooms cool, the bigger space(s) are a struggle. Especially with kids watching screens and me working from home. That said: Heat pumps/AC? And/or full on boiler replacement?!??!? BOTH??!? 40yo furnace... parts availability is getting hard, even if it's in good working order. maybe time to just bite the bullet and get it all done? I want to be as eyes open as I can be on something like this knowing next to nothing. I know part of it is certainly go with brands that are frequent/available in the area... but, I'm also not looking to get taken for a ride on getting something done properly that will do what we need. Halp me guuunz
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Jul 4, 2023 21:23
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Motronic posted:I'm sure either will be fine, but that's a good place to eliminate or further investigate failures. Thanks for the help. I'm dumb when it comes to this stuff but I've been staring at the wiring diagram. I've looked at all the wires coming off the stat (in the diagram) and it *looks* like violet is the only one that would have much of an effect to disable the heat coils short of cutting the wires for them. As it goes to terminal 1 on the relay at the bottom right corner. Probelm is I guess it seems like pulling that wire will disable the relay and not allow the two Aquastats to do whatever the gently caress it is that they do. But maybe thats not really an issue right now. If I remove the violet I guess the worst that could happen is....... I have to put it back later. E: purple ain't hooked up to anything on the stat. wesleywillis fucked around with this message at 21:40 on Jul 4, 2023 |
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Jul 4, 2023 21:34
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After some deliberation and turning the system switch off, and also the fuckin breaker for it as well, I opened the forbidden box of mystery and unplugged the black wire that goes up to the heat coils. They are now off, system is on and I'm trying to debate on what to do next aside from tape up the terminal, put the cover back on the box and put poo poo back together for now. I'm not opposed to parts cannoning a new thermostat of the same model so I can just plug the new one in, but I'm wondering, if it is the stat, if this is going to happen again in a couple years. Maybe the stat was lovely, or maybe there was something not wired properly to begin with. A few years back I was told that the original stat had a short in it somewhere, which is what eventually prompted me to replace it with this one. Perhaps something in the wiring is whats causing this. If thats the case, it sounds like I'll need a pro. I think you were right and the loud click IS coming from the contactor or relay or whatever the gently caress. Is that typically the sound of death for one of those things? If so, then thats definitely a job for a pro, and when I do that, I'll have them check the stat wiring too I guess. I wish I had my engine stethoscope with me today, but its at work and I'm supposed to be on vacation.
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Jul 4, 2023 22:04
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wesleywillis posted:I think you were right and the loud click IS coming from the contactor or relay or whatever the gently caress. Nah, contactors pulling in are just loud. Even if it was bad they're inexpensive and if you know how to turn off the breaker you could totally replace one yourself. But I don't think that's your issue. I think something is incorrectly sending control voltage to that contactor and making it pull in when it shouldn't be. Sounds like this is literally just emergency heat and your regular heat comes form the building so.........plug it back in if the building heat fails? Or keep diagnosing. If you can get at the stat wires/terminals with a multimeter when it's on that's going to be the easiest way.
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Jul 4, 2023 22:10
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Hello again. If the unit worked correctly since your last visit to this thread, its likely a failed component issue. One of those aquastats may be bad, or like you suspect the thermostat you put in is not working correctly. Unless you own a Volt-meter and are prepared to start poking at things, I suggest you call a service person for this one.
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Jul 5, 2023 22:40
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Hey AC friends… Cooling went out this morning, noticed that breaker for AC is in middle position. Switched the breaker off and then back to on, but it keeps immediately popping back into the middle position.  Is this an AC issue or an electrical issue? I have a service tech scheduled for tomorrow afternoon, just kinda wondering what sort of issues/diagnosis I should be expecting.
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Jul 6, 2023 23:28
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testtubebaby posted:Hey AC friends… Turn the thermostat off (so it's not calling for cooling). Does the breaker still trip? If so, you have some weird electrical gremlins (like someone put a screw through a wire, like happened with my AC). If not, it's likely either the contactor or capacitor ($) or the compressor ($$$).
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Jul 6, 2023 23:34
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devicenull posted:Turn the thermostat off (so it's not calling for cooling). Does the breaker still trip? If so, you have some weird electrical gremlins (like someone put a screw through a wire, like happened with my AC). Thanks for the suggestion, hadn’t thought to try that. Unfortunately, still tripping after I did this… so, I guess electrical gremlins
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Jul 7, 2023 00:50
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testtubebaby posted:Thanks for the suggestion, hadn’t thought to try that. Did you do any sort of work before it stopped working? Not HVAC, stuff like hanging a picture or shelf? Reorganize the basement and hang stuff from wires? (don't do that) Does it only happen when it's raining or something? The more info like this you can provide the tech the better (especially if it's not a short run from the panel to the AC) If you're comfortable doing it I'd suggest disconnecting the wires from the breaker and seeing if it still trips (but if you don't know what this entails... don't try it, especially when you've got someone coming tomorrow)
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Jul 7, 2023 02:16
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dont cancel that service call though. due to the continued Cost Engineering of everything, most units don't switch both legs of the compressor. so if the windings are shorted it can still trip the breaker while off. or you might even get lucky and the service person whips the cover off and finds a mouse chewed through a wire or something simple.
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Jul 7, 2023 02:18
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Hey does anybody know a tool for laying out duct transitions? I need to go from 4" round duct to a rectangular 8.125" x 3.5" shape, over a length of around 5-8 inches. I can cut it or even CNC it out of a couple materials, but I can't find anything online to help me design it. The best I could find was this thing: https://letsfab.in/online-calculators/transition-calculator/ But it leaves a ton for the user to calculate, as it were. All the angles and relative positions of every point, for example. EDIT: I'm realizing now that a 4" circle is basically the same as a 3.5" x 3.5" square in both area and circumference, so I can probably just sort of fudge it. Rescue Toaster fucked around with this message at 03:29 on Jul 7, 2023 |
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Jul 7, 2023 02:49
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devicenull posted:Did you do any sort of work before it stopped working? Not HVAC, stuff like hanging a picture or shelf? Reorganize the basement and hang stuff from wires? (don't do that) Does it only happen when it's raining or something? The more info like this you can provide the tech the better (especially if it's not a short run from the panel to the AC) Thanks again for your help! I probably won't be messing around with the breaker tbh... not experienced that way so I'd probably do more damage than good, either to myself or the system. Nothing out of the ordinary was happening when I noticed the AC wasn't cooling any more; basically woke up, took a shower, and then felt the air was warmer than normal. Hasn't happened before, so can't really say what may be a cause that I can think of. I live in a condo, so no basement reorg or exposed wires for hanging; my AC handler unit is located in a small AC closet in the building's hallway and nothing appeared to be different in there either. MRC48B posted:dont cancel that service call though. Definitely won't cancel... thanks for the insights.
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Jul 7, 2023 14:28
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If you're in a condo, another relevant question is whether you are aware of work taking place in any other nearby units.
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Jul 7, 2023 17:33
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Bad news bros, apparently it’s the compressor and my unit is too old for repair? Anyways… thanks for the help, gonna be getting a new AC for my birthday! 🎉
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Jul 8, 2023 01:31
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testtubebaby posted:Bad news bros, apparently it’s the compressor and my unit is too old for repair? Probably R22? But yea... labor costs dont really win versus just slapping in a new unit entirely.
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Jul 8, 2023 01:41
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Motronic posted:Nah, contactors pulling in are just loud. Even if it was bad they're inexpensive and if you know how to turn off the breaker you could totally replace one yourself. But I don't think that's your issue. I think something is incorrectly sending control voltage to that contactor and making it pull in when it shouldn't be. I probably could change the contactor myself ut its in a really fuckin awkward spot. I'd have to shove my head in to the hole in the wall where the grating sits, through a u bend in some pipe, sideways, with not enough room to support my head with an elbow or whatever the gently caress. And if I don't get the exact one with the exact pins/connections in the exact spot I'd probably be lost (maybe not). Most likely I'll leave it and just put it back together in the fall? I dunno. The contactor though, always did make a bit of a click when the system turned on its just that now, its distinctly louder than it was, which coincides with the loss in performance, but gently caress it, its "fixed" for now and I can keep this place at 68-69 degrees the way I like it. MRC48B posted:Hello again. I've got a volt meter, but aside from using it to make sure there was no power when I changed a light fixture, I've mostly used it for automotive purposes. As I mentioned above, I'll probably wait till fall to gently caress with it again, and re-assess whether I want to change to contactor and/or parts cannon a new thermostat. Or call a pro to figure it out. Where would I find one of these contactors? Is that an electrical supply place, or are there like special HVAC suppliers I should be looking for?
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Jul 8, 2023 02:45
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wesleywillis posted:Where would I find one of these contactors? Is that an electrical supply place, or are there like special HVAC suppliers I should be looking for? It's not the contactor. I've never seen one fail that way. It's the stat or wiring. If we were discussing how your emergency heat doesn't work even though its making the noise and we verified supply voltage it would most likely be the contactor. But in this case I'd be figuring out if the E terminal on your thermostat is energized when it's switched to AC. If it is, the stat is bad.
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Jul 8, 2023 16:21
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A weird thing happened: AC stopped blowing cold air, or even blowing very strongly, so I shut it off and started the process of getting my landlord on it. Basically, for about a day only warm weak air coming out of vents, and the condenser outside is motionless. I turned it on after 24 hours of it being turned off voluntarily - just to check on it - and the condenser starts up and the house is cooling. What happened?
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Jul 10, 2023 15:15
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Yak Shaves Dot Com posted:A weird thing happened: AC stopped blowing cold air, or even blowing very strongly, so I shut it off and started the process of getting my landlord on it. Basically, for about a day only warm weak air coming out of vents, and the condenser outside is motionless. I turned it on after 24 hours of it being turned off voluntarily - just to check on it - and the condenser starts up and the house is cooling. The evap coil froze because you are low on refrigerant. You turned it off long enough to thaw it and it will work again, albeit temporarily.
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Jul 10, 2023 15:23
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devicenull posted:Probably R22? But yea... labor costs dont really win versus just slapping in a new unit entirely.  Received a quote from the company that told me my unit is dead. Checking to see if you all think this is reasonable or if i need to put in some work sourcing lower quotes. Another big question is about the model... googled the number and it's by a company - Climate Master - that is unfamiliar to me.  e: So I guess the quoted unit itself goes for like $2700 https://www.google.com/shopping/pro...HfN9CwwQ9pwGCAU which means that they are wanting $4300 for installation/disposal and... that's about it? testtubebaby fucked around with this message at 19:07 on Jul 10, 2023 |
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Jul 10, 2023 17:56
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Motronic posted:The evap coil froze because you are low on refrigerant. You turned it off long enough to thaw it and it will work again, albeit temporarily. How temporarily? Assuming I'm only running it enough to keep the house under 90 degrees
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Jul 10, 2023 18:12
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