|
Chaos is pretty diverse, as well, and different factions and warbands will have wildly different experiences. Being an ammo hauler first grade on a Night Lords ship is one of the worst experiences a person could have, but doing the same job for the Alpha Legion is probably a much better experience than being on an Imperial vessel.
|
#
?
Jul 4, 2023 23:44
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 10, 2024 16:32 |
|
|
Chaos ships will literally eat you and would realistically also probably do horrible enough things to you that indepth descriptions of said things would likely get me probed. It would be at least as bad as being captured by dark eldar. You are a slave on an imperial ship, you are beaten, starved, put into lethal environments, forgotten (and then probably spaced when they do that thing where they vent decks) but ultimately a flesh tentacle is likely not going to skulljack you and have you carve apart your family for sport while you are screaming on the inside. The Imperium is the horror and cruelty of an industrialized, bureaucratic and fanatic human society turned to 11. Chaos is cosmic evil and it can do everything the Imperium does, and more, and then do the same poo poo to your soul.
|
|
#
?
Jul 4, 2023 23:45
|
|
|
A slow death on an imp ship is having your leg crushed by some kind of auxiliary rudder piston in subsection 4A Thetus between armor plate Beta and Trius and dying alone five days later from heavy metal and radiation poisoning, having screamed yourself hoarse. A slow death on a chaos vessel is being stretched over months until you're thin enough and transparent enough to be the lens in a gun sight and then existing like that in the untimes of the warp for aeons, feeling every moment, never sleeping, begging every day for a space battle to end you.
|
|
#
?
Jul 4, 2023 23:58
|
|
|
Now, if you're a menial on an Imperium ship and get your hands on an Arco-flagellant...
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2023 00:16
|
|
|
Black Griffon posted:A slow death on an imp ship is having your leg crushed by some kind of auxiliary rudder piston in subsection 4A Thetus between armor plate Beta and Trius and dying alone five days later from heavy metal and radiation poisoning, having screamed yourself hoarse. A slow death on a chaos vessel is being stretched over months until you're thin enough and transparent enough to be the lens in a gun sight and then existing like that in the untimes of the warp for aeons, feeling every moment, never sleeping, begging every day for a space battle to end you. drat, didn't know the people who made Chaos vessels were such huge fans of The Enigma of Amigara Fault.
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2023 00:21
|
|
|
FishFood posted:Chaos is pretty diverse, as well, and different factions and warbands will have wildly different experiences. Being an ammo hauler first grade on a Night Lords ship is one of the worst experiences a person could have, but doing the same job for the Alpha Legion is probably a much better experience than being on an Imperial vessel. This. A lot of chaos warbands are olympically uninterested in the lives of mortals toiling under them, as long as the guns fire, the ships sail and the armor gets fixed. They don't really have the resources or patience to have an Inquisition-simile scouring through the menial decks. Of course, the environment itself likely does most of the handling: being caught by the Death Guard, the Emperor's Children or the Word Bearers feels like the worse outcomes. Alpha Legion and Thousand Sons seem to be some of the 'nicer' fates. It really feels like recently the insane harshness and cruelty of the Imperium gets downplayed in recent releases with the loyal primarchs returning, given that it was a genocidal machine when it was at its least disfunctional. I mean, it's the faction that callously wasted an entire warship and tens of thousands of loyal lives in a time of unparallel galactic crisis, simply in order to smuggle a Temple assassin and kill a loyal astartes Chapter Master that was heroically managing to hold his sector together, pettily assuring that the entire Veil would be turbo-hosed. Though it seems that the timeline has been jiggered with so much post-Cicatrix I don't even know if Spears of the Emperor is canon.
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2023 00:34
|
|
|
the imperium is constantly doing stupid, self-destructive things. many xenos and chaos factions get the standard “if only they would stop fighting each other/self-sabotaging, they could band together and conquer the galaxy” but a far more interesting perspective imo is “the imperium’s massive size and material advantages mean it could be completely dominant and prosperous if it could stop doing pointlessly cruel and self-destructive things, which it will never be able to do.”
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2023 00:50
|
|
|
I’ve been reading a lot of 1d4 Chan (the wiki ) and some of it is not that bad ? I like when the articles argue with themselves
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2023 00:51
|
|
|
euphronius posted:I’ve been reading a lot of 1d4 Chan (the wiki ) and some of it is not that bad ? I like when the articles argue with themselves It is very hit and miss and does cling to a lot of older -chan style humour that hasn't aged well. At the same time, that irreverence can be fun and there are some genuinely useful articles pertaining to army building. For fluff it gets points for not being Lexicanum which just posts things verbatim from codexes and for not being 40K Wiki which is in a race to put as many words on a page as possible.
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2023 00:58
|
|
|
It's interesting that the boarding patrol box for Chaos Space Marines has Abaddon personally leading a bunch of cultists, alongside some specialist legionaries. The implication is that the most insanely powerful evil guy amidst armies of insanely powerful evil guys recognizes mere mortals. Sure, it's plainly for their value as cannon fodder, but it's still recognition, and the euphoria that accompanies that is fueled by a sense of belonging to the war machine that will, the Black Legion asserts confidently, be the ultimate downfall of the Emperor that scorned them. Years of gruesome toil in the bowels of a Chaos warship are vindicated by those fleeting moments of savage retribution against the hated Imperium, in what is likely the final (and as far as they're concerned, climactic) moments of their lives -- and to Chaos, that rush of emotions demonstrably matters, and the cultists know it; it's their reward. e. Also, Red Corsairs are explicitly inclusive of non-Astartes. Doesn't matter if they're warriors or laborers; anyone tough enough to just survive the society they've created is a welcome member of it. Improbable Lobster posted:Just wait til you see more of the Tau I read a bit not long after my last post and fuckin lmao euphronius posted:I’ve been reading a lot of 1d4 Chan (the wiki ) and some of it is not that bad ? I like when the articles argue with themselves The jokes and memes that were already dated by the 2010s are offset by the fairly even-handed presentation of straightforward story and gameplay information. It ain't too bad, really. Mazed fucked around with this message at 01:14 on Jul 5, 2023 |
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2023 00:59
|
|
|
CottonWolf posted:You didn’t ask about Orks, but I feel Brutal Kunnin’ is worth a recommendation for Xenos books too. Is there an audiobook version chock full of silly Orky voices? Or should I stick with the ebook?
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2023 01:32
|
|
|
Xenomrph posted:Is there an audiobook version chock full of silly Orky voices? Or should I stick with the ebook? Audiobook and it rules.
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2023 01:41
|
|
|
bunnyofdoom posted:What if it's more than one primach. Roboute wakes up and Ultramar sucedes from the Imperium. Lion and Leman returns from the warp. Mutual distrust of each other causes them to declare war on each other. The Salamanders retrieve all the Artifacts. Corax returns having perfected the cloning poo poo but gone insane. bunnyofdoom posted:Man, just a thought, but if GW had one of the Primarchs come back, and start making waves, they could write a bit where some high lord of terra orders his assasination or some such thing bunnyofdoom posted:It got retconned to 100 year and a day I think. So, Angron could very well come out of the warp now. Was going through my old posts for reasons, and Lol, lookit my predictions from ten years ago
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2023 02:06
|
|
|
bunnyofdoom posted:Was going through my old posts for reasons, and Lol, lookit my predictions from ten years ago Who does your uncle work for?
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2023 02:19
|
|
|
Mazed posted:
I like the table top discussions. I never play so it’s interesting to read how these units work “in real life” I never considered - for example - that Abaddon is a model you can buy, paint and play on a table
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2023 02:22
|
|
|
The lords of silence is an excellent look on what it’s like for a normal human to be on a chaos ship That book owns every one should read it Edit Some of these ships (on any side) are so big, people can and probably do live and die without really knowing they are on ships. euphronius fucked around with this message at 02:33 on Jul 5, 2023 |
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2023 02:26
|
|
|
Chaos Legions it sucks to be stuck on the ship of, ranked worst to least worst: 1. Emperor's Children: You being tortured is part of their everyday infrastructure and entertainment. (source: Lucius, the Faultless Blade by Ian St. Martin, Fabius Bile trilogy by Josh Reynolds) 2. Night Lords: You being tortured is what they do for funsies, but occasionally they don't have their poo poo together and the ranks break down. (source: Night Lords trilogy by Aaron Dembski-Bowden) 3. Iron Warriors: You're a number. A very, very small number. Your purpose is to be spent. (source: Storm of Iron by Graham McNiell) 4. Word Bearers: You will either labor until you die of exhaustion or labor until you die of being sacrificed. You may, however, end up getting a sip of the kool-aid and start thinking this is fine. (source: Word Bearers trilogy by Anthony Reynolds) 5. World Eaters: Just keep their poo poo working and they probably won't notice you. If they do, they might just casually kill you because you're there. (source: Lucius, the Faultless Blade by Ian St. Martin -- there's a slave who goes from being on a World Eaters vessel to an Emperor's Children vessel) 6. Black Legion: Wild card; life is probably hideous and full of suffering but there's a chance you get picked to do something noteworthy, and they're not above making new Astartes out of sufficiently motivated captives. (source: Codex: Chaos Space Marines, also noted in the Night Lords trilogy by Aaron Dembski-Bowden) 7. Death Guard: Everything -- everything -- is indescribably gross...but you've stopped caring, and the big guys can be unexpectedly chill. (source: Lords of Silence by Chris Wraight) 8. Thousand Sons: Not a lot different from slaving away on an Imperium ship, but there's still a chance that awful random Chaos poo poo happens to you. If you demonstrate any latent psychic power, though, they might decide you're worth tutoring. Or you'll just mutate horribly. Maybe both. (source: Codex: Thousand Sons, and I think this is also mentioned in that one Mephiston novel?) 9. Alpha Legion: Probably equal to being on an Imperium ship. Hell, you might not even be aware you're not on one. They actually may reward -- no quotation marks! -- competence, maybe even make you an official operative. It's a one in a million chance, but still a chance. (source: pretty much everything written about them) Mazed fucked around with this message at 05:48 on Jul 5, 2023 |
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2023 04:03
|
|
|
OPAONI posted:Audiobook and it rules. Edit — lmao within the first 60 seconds of the audiobook it said the phrase “seeing out of his own kneecaps” in reference to the craziness of warp travel and I couldn’t stop laughing, but maybe this is the rum & cokes talking Edit again— it just said that an Ork with a unicycle was “spectacularly bad at navigating stairs” and I almost spit out my drink, holy poo poo Xenomrph fucked around with this message at 05:07 on Jul 5, 2023 |
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2023 04:25
|
|
|
Mazed posted:Chaos Legions it sucks to be stuck on the ship of, ranked worst to least worst: You can turn EC from worst to best just by giving yourself fully over to Slaneesh so you like the torture. Xenomrph posted:Well I'm convinced haha It's great. All of Brook's Ork stuff has been, don't stop at Brutal Kunnin'
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2023 05:34
|
|
|
D-Pad posted:You can turn EC from worst to best just by giving yourself fully over to Slaneesh so you like the torture. Yeah but then they stop torturing you, which is WORSE
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2023 07:31
|
|
|
Gravitas Shortfall posted:Yeah but then they stop torturing you, which is WORSE Well, at that point they put you in the warband because you're now a full-on cultist. So hey, you might survive being in the front wave.
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2023 07:47
|
|
|
MIke Brooks' Warboss is also really, really goddamn funny at times.
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2023 12:18
|
|
|
Warden posted:MIke Brooks' Warboss is also really, really goddamn funny at times. Da Genrul is a treasure of a character.
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2023 12:34
|
|
|
The Ghazkhul novel is great. Is that Warboss?
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2023 12:44
|
|
|
Nope, different one in that case. https://www.blacklibrary.com/warhammer-40000/novels/ebook-warboss-eng-2023.html Also available as an audio book; https://www.blacklibrary.com/audio/warhammer-40000-audiobooks/mp3-warboss-eng-2023.html Speaking of Fabius Bile, he's getting a new book. https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/07/05/genefather-fabius-bile-is-back-to-test-his-wits-against-the-biggest-brains-in-the-galaxy/  Genefather by Guy Haley sees BIle "inviting" himself to a meeting of the minds, featuring Belisarius Cawl among others, who have gathered on Pontus Avernes to discuss Necron Pylons. There will obviously be an CE version, most likely limited to the usual 1250 to 1500 copies.  No date yet and won't be out for a while by the looks of it.
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2023 13:02
|
|
|
Huh. I have no opinion on Guy Haley. I'm not even sure if I've read anything of his. Half as good as Josh Reynolds' take on Bile will probably be sufficient.
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2023 13:08
|
|
|
Yeah 1d4 has comparative discussion of fluff revisions which is cool. For example the necron page has lots of good analysis The memes are bad
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2023 16:18
|
|
|
Gravitas Shortfall posted:Yeah but then they stop torturing you, which is WORSE Or Slaneesh flips this "actually this is fun" switch and you are in constant extreme levels of agony.
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2023 18:16
|
|
|
Haleys done a bunch of my favorite books but is also saddled with a bunch of very workmanlike you need to write a book about the new models type stuff that never ends up too exciting. His Cawl is very good though and I think one of the more interesting imperium characters in black library, being a bunch of fractured minds with very different perspectives smashed together and fighting for primacy. And then there's the cawl inferior...
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2023 18:16
|
|
|
God I hope Trazyn crashes that party too
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2023 18:29
|
|
|
euphronius posted:Some of these ships (on any side) are so big, people can and probably do live and die without really knowing they are on ships. Warden posted:MIke Brooks' Warboss is also really, really goddamn funny at times. I'm going to cross the streams between thread conversations. I just finished Warboss and it was a really fun read. It also featured a character/group of people living under a hive city who didn't even have a concept of what a planet was or anything beyond their small under hive society. Not a ship, but very similar in concept. A fun aspect of Brooks' 2 ork books so far, for me, is all the different factions he manages to work into the story. I remember Brutal Kunnin having orks plus mechanicus, which was fun, but Warboss has 3 or 4 different ork sub-factions working together/against each other, astra militarum groups fighting the orks, the humans living under the hive city, and another one I don't want to spoil. Lots of different perspectives on the world. Edit: super excited for Cawl and Bile to cross paths
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2023 18:31
|
|
|
Make it a 40k nerd convention Cawl, Fabius, Trazyn, Orikan, Eldrad Q&A session.
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2023 19:10
|
|
|
Multiple clones of each show up as well.
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2023 19:11
|
|
|
throw in Mad Dok Grotsnik
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2023 19:15
|
|
|
I figured out what my big issue is with the Lion book, he's not doing anything primarchy. He could literally be any generic space marine captain or whatever. He should not go into any of those battles with any kind of stakes, when he goes into personal combat they should know they are absolutely hosed, even if he's unarmed and you got a bolter you should have zero chance. He's presented as Joe Spacemarine and there's nothing special about him at all.
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2023 19:19
|
|
|
I just finished Salvation’s Reach (second half of the Victory Pt. 1) and I got to say I’m disappointed to see Kolea set up on what appears to be basically the same arc as Soric from a few books back. Hopefully it won’t be as cut and paste as it seems, but at this point it feels like the same problem with extra steps.
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2023 19:20
|
|
|
The Kingfish posted:I just finished Salvation’s Reach (second half of the Victory Pt. 1) and I got to say I’m disappointed to see Kolea set up on what appears to be basically the same arc as Soric from a few books back. Hopefully it won’t be as cut and paste as it seems, but at this point it feels like the same problem with extra steps. Oh man this takes me back. I got the Sabbat Crusade anthology shortly after Salvations Reach and the foreword to the short story Ghosts and Bad Shadows gave me anxiety about the series for years after.
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2023 19:31
|
|
|
Haley generally gets the job done. I like his Curze book and the Warhammer Crime one he did. The rest are fine.
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2023 19:50
|
|
|
Demiurge4 posted:I figured out what my big issue is with the Lion book, he's not doing anything primarchy. He could literally be any generic space marine captain or whatever. He should not go into any of those battles with any kind of stakes, when he goes into personal combat they should know they are absolutely hosed, even if he's unarmed and you got a bolter you should have zero chance. He's presented as Joe Spacemarine and there's nothing special about him at all. Havent read it yet, but given that he's kinda being presented as super bad rear end questing knight who is soloing big evils that's pretty bad. But to be honest that's kinda been an issue since Gulliman came back. EVERYTHING that knows about primarchs should absolutely be making GBS threads themselves when one walks in (okay maybe not Orks or Nids). Chaos space marines should be going "Oh gently caress", traitor guard should be questioning their faith and going through poo poo as much as a loyalist guard would if a chaos daemon prince or greater daemon showed up. Imperial soldiers should faint or go through bouts of religious spasm ( to the disgust of the primarch). The presence of one in a system should have people making pilgrimages to see them. These are people who are essentially superweapons/supersoldiers on a galactic scale and they get treated as basically slightly cooler chapter masters. Plain old space marines are religious icons, primarchs should be seen as a step or two above Imperial saints. Telsa Cola fucked around with this message at 20:23 on Jul 5, 2023 |
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2023 20:19
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 10, 2024 16:32 |
|
|
The Kingfish posted:I just finished Salvation’s Reach (second half of the Victory Pt. 1) and I got to say I’m disappointed to see Kolea set up on what appears to be basically the same arc as Soric from a few books back. Hopefully it won’t be as cut and paste as it seems, but at this point it feels like the same problem with extra steps. No spoilers but that fear is groundless
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2023 21:14
|
|