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OhFunny posted:America’s Navy Remains Crippled by Service and Repair Delays laid down in 1992 and completed in 1997. it is going to take as long to repair the boat as it did to build it in the first place
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Jul 5, 2023 16:30
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Frosted Flake posted:Warships rusting is absolutely anathema. It has nothing to do with structural integrity and everything to do with the basic standards of discipline and daily routine at sea. I'm not saying return to the brightwork of the "Buff and Black" Royal Navy, though it wouldn't hurt, but goddamn surface combatants with visible rust points to a standard that has collapsed. Needle gunning rust and putting down paint are usually busywork in the navy unless you are staring down an inspection like ORSE or INSERV. Less people in divisions means you spent all your time knocking out your OMS deck and standing watch. Having one or two junior guys who are currently not tasked made it real easy to keep poo poo shiny. Honestly the dumbest most American way to do it would be to make painting and rust abatement its own loving rate.
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Jul 5, 2023 16:32
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Turtle Sandbox posted:Honestly the dumbest most American way to do it would be to make painting and rust abatement its own loving rate. I think it's been posted here before, but they're trying to procure robots to do it, which is surely the dumbest, most American, way.
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Jul 5, 2023 16:34
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bedpan posted:
It is really funny how we've boughtnournown propaganda in thinking the A-10 is invincible, and would have melted while Soviet tank armies on its own
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Jul 5, 2023 16:37
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bedpan posted:The US Army proposed several years ago to take possession of the A-10s and run their own CAS program. The USAF immediately went into action and crushed this proposal mercilessly. Total myth, though a commonly repeated myth. Air Force was generally fine with the idea, though warned the CAS mission isn’t cheap. The army decided it would be too hard and cost too much once they looked into what it would require. Far cheaper to fund artillery and helicopter fires. Now the USAF does CAS primarily with F-16s, Strike Eagles, and A-10s. More and more will include F-35s, but F-35s aren’t the A-10 replacement. If anything that mission may fall more often to 4th gen fighters that will be around for decades to come. The war in Ukraine is a good example of how aircraft like SU-25s and A-10s are highly marginalized even when fighting pretty antiquated air defenses like those of Ukraine.
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Jul 5, 2023 16:42
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KomradeX posted:It is really funny how we've boughtnournown propaganda in thinking the A-10 is invincible, and would have melted while Soviet tank armies on its own Leadership actually believing the previous generation's propaganda is basically the entire story of American decline the past ~40 years lmao
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Jul 5, 2023 16:44
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KomradeX posted:It is really funny how we've boughtnournown propaganda in thinking the A-10 is invincible, and would have melted while Soviet tank armies on its own I'll actually check this one but as I recall, the estimated life was literally something ridiculous like 15 minutes mlmp08 posted:Total myth, though a commonly repeated myth. Air Force was generally fine with the idea, though warned the CAS mission isn’t cheap. The army decided it would be too hard and cost too much once they looked into what it would require. Far cheaper to fund artillery and helicopter fires. Thanks for the correction!
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Jul 5, 2023 16:46
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bedpan posted:I'll actually check this one but as I recall, the estimated life was literally something ridiculous like 15 minutes Youre right it was estimated to be literal minutes, but the Gulf War and attacking people without stable AA defence over the last 30 years convinced people beating the Soviets would be a peice of cake, "just look atneasy we took out those Iraqi T-72s"
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Jul 5, 2023 16:54
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what's funny to me is how despite outgunning ukraine 10:1, russia has barely even used their airforce in this conflict, because even at that disparity, SAM launchers will immediately gently caress your day up but now people want ukraine to fly f16s over the same front lmao
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Jul 5, 2023 17:01
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Frosted Flake posted:I think it's been posted here before, but they're trying to procure robots to do it, which is surely the dumbest, most American, way. Sounds expensive, time consuming, something that won't be real for a decade more while attempting to solve a problem we have right now. Make it cost 50 mil a robot, make all the maintenance on said robot depot level, and you've got a real money maker.
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Jul 5, 2023 17:32
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Truga posted:what's funny to me is how despite outgunning ukraine 10:1, russia has barely even used their airforce in this conflict, because even at that disparity, SAM launchers will immediately gently caress your day up People honestly think American planes are magic that can't be shot down
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Jul 5, 2023 17:39
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Remulak posted:Why did she bring her purse? Women be shopping
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Jul 5, 2023 17:47
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KomradeX posted:People honestly think American planes are magic that can't be shot down IEDs can't hit plane and that's what modern warfare mostly looked like in the middle east. If you got hosed up, odds are thats what hosed you up.
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Jul 5, 2023 17:58
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Truga posted:what's funny to me is how despite outgunning ukraine 10:1, russia has barely even used their airforce in this conflict, because even at that disparity, SAM launchers will immediately gently caress your day up I have an unfounded intuition that russia could run a succesful SEAD campaign but they would not be able to replace the losses incurred in the medium term
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Jul 5, 2023 18:05
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Stairmaster posted:I have an unfounded intuition that russia could run a succesful SEAD campaign but they would not be able to replace the losses incurred in the medium term The whole SMO concept was about carefully shepherding resources and doing everything on the cheap. It makes sense to me that they've been trying to keep valuable assets out of harm's way, even if it's made the whole thing clunkier than it needed to be.
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Jul 5, 2023 18:07
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Truga posted:what's funny to me is how despite outgunning ukraine 10:1, russia has barely even used their airforce in this conflict, because even at that disparity, SAM launchers will immediately gently caress your day up Russia has used their airforce a lot in this conflict, just not the level that appears "normal" to a Western eye because the US's use of air power is basically as a hammer for every possible nail. The US uses air strikes the way a Russian formation would use its divisional artillery.
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Jul 5, 2023 18:09
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I don't know poo poo but I was under the impression that anything under, say 20k feet was dead if something like an S-400 went after it, and top gun style evasive maneuvers and flares are bullshit in that scenario.
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Jul 5, 2023 18:13
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the us will easily win any conflict with china because this is the lord's land and we are his people
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Jul 5, 2023 18:27
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inshallah
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Jul 5, 2023 18:28
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go for a stroll posted:I don't know poo poo but I was under the impression that anything under, say 20k feet was dead if something like an S-400 went after it, and top gun style evasive maneuvers and flares are bullshit in that scenario. Not really, the same for any SAM system in that some dodging and juking can actually work but it is really about volume of the missiles fired and the skill of the pilot. The Ukrainians don’t always get shot down. Also if you stop to just above the ground, you are also much harder to it, but then you can be also shot down by all types of other types of ground fire and MANPADs. That said, it seems like the aim in any peer to peer conflict with the US is to disrupt their first few waves as much as possible and reliable strikes, the US is very vulnerable on the ground.
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Jul 5, 2023 18:46
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sams have a certain kill radius based on altitude and speed where that doesn't work. it will not surprise you that state of the art systems have a very large one.
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Jul 5, 2023 18:49
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its the summer of sams
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Jul 5, 2023 18:50
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the s-500 will destroy amerikkka
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Jul 5, 2023 18:50
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go for a stroll posted:I don't know poo poo but I was under the impression that anything under, say 20k feet was dead if something like an S-400 went after it, and top gun style evasive maneuvers and flares are bullshit in that scenario. There are a lot of variables. The sites can't be located too close to the front line without being exposed to things like rocket artillery, and if you stay at a low altitude and far enough away, the site's radar can't see you due to the horizon and terrain so you might be able to do low altitude CAS without ever being shot at by those particular systems. Distance from the site and the minimum abort distance of the missile and the altitude and speed of the plane. If you're far enough away and fast enough, you can use the advanced tactic of "just leave, just walk away" and the missile will run out of energy before it gets you. Also whether the radar operator wants to switch on and make themselves potentially vulnerable to anti-radiation missiles in the first place, etc. There's also reverse attrition: every time you shoot a SAM and don't hit, that's a missile you've expended without getting a plane and that missile has to be replaced. That's not trivial in a full scale war. However S300s/400s do generally mean that the "we fly whever we want whenever we want" US air supremacy assumptions don't hold because that airspace is going to be contested and you can't just fly into it and drop your JDAMs whenever and wherever you want.
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Jul 5, 2023 18:52
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The Oldest Man posted:There are a lot of variables. The sites can't be located too close to the front line without being exposed to things like rocket artillery, and if you stay at a low altitude and far enough away, the site's radar can't see you due to the horizon and terrain so you might be able to do low altitude CAS without ever being shot at by those particular systems. Distance from the site and the minimum abort distance of the missile and the altitude and speed of the plane. If you're far enough away and fast enough, you can use the advanced tactic of "just leave, just walk away" and the missile will run out of energy before it gets you. Also whether the radar operator wants to switch on and make themselves potentially vulnerable to anti-radiation missiles in the first place, etc. There's also reverse attrition: every time you shoot a SAM and don't hit, that's a missile you've expended without getting a plane and that missile has to be replaced. That's not trivial in a full scale war. Something something stealth bombers will clear the way- US doctrine, probably
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Jul 5, 2023 19:08
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KomradeX posted:Something something stealth bombers will clear the way- US doctrine, probably I think they'd probably sling a lot of standoff munitions (Tomahawks being one of the main ones) at the launchers and hope to overwhelm them with the mass of fire but it's not clear there's actually enough of those in the inventory to attrit them and the US has very little ability to regenerate those weapons at this point.
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Jul 5, 2023 19:46
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bedpan posted:
Didn't they give the entire USAF like, 2 weeks of sustained fighting before they were attritted to nothing?
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Jul 5, 2023 19:50
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skooma512 posted:Didn't they give the entire USAF like, 2 weeks of sustained fighting before they were attritted to nothing? Also Warsaw Pact was expected to hit most major air bases with tactical nuclear weapons (or, optimistically, overwhelming conventional attacks) at zero hour. Once NATO telegraphed not only that their entire war depended on airpower but that reinforcements from the continental US flying by transport and airliner would be relied upon to fill NATO combat formations, you did not want to be hanging out anywhere near Ramstein. Frosted Flake has issued a correction as of 19:58 on Jul 5, 2023 |
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Jul 5, 2023 19:56
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skooma512 posted:Didn't they give the entire USAF like, 2 weeks of sustained fighting before they were attritted to nothing? Wait have we devolved that badly, cause I remember that beinf attributed to most of Europe which is why we had to take over bombing Libya after a week cause only the US had the stockpile for a sustained air campaign
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Jul 5, 2023 20:23
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The Oldest Man posted:I think they'd probably sling a lot of standoff munitions (Tomahawks being one of the main ones) at the launchers and hope to overwhelm them with the mass of fire but it's not clear there's actually enough of those in the inventory to attrit them and the US has very little ability to regenerate those weapons at this point. This makes sense if your strategy is the short victorious war won by one overwhelming blow Which makes sense if your doctrine is based on the inherent superiority of your people and technology Which makes sense if you integrated a bunch of Wehrmacht officers into your strategic planning apparatus Which makes sense if you thought they should've won ww2
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Jul 5, 2023 20:29
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Frosted Flake posted:Also Warsaw Pact was expected to hit most major air bases with tactical nuclear weapons (or, optimistically, overwhelming conventional attacks) at zero hour. there were some really great posts on SA about 10 years ago or so where a guy recounted stories of his time in the military working with either chemical or nuclear weapons (I think) in Germany. whatever it was, one of the things that popped up in a lot of his stories was that the nature of the job they had in the military meant they would be target #1 and couldn't expect to survive past minute one of full combat I'll need to find those posts again. Great stuff.
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Jul 5, 2023 20:30
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KomradeX posted:Wait have we devolved that badly, cause I remember that beinf attributed to most of Europe which is why we had to take over bombing Libya after a week cause only the US had the stockpile for a sustained air campaign No, it’s in the Operational Logistics textbooks, I’m sure I have one around here somewhere.
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Jul 5, 2023 20:34
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bedpan posted:there were some really great posts on SA about 10 years ago or so where a guy recounted stories of his time in the military working with either chemical or nuclear weapons (I think) in Germany. whatever it was, one of the things that popped up in a lot of his stories was that the nature of the job they had in the military meant they would be target #1 and couldn't expect to survive past minute one of full combat That guy told great stories. drat that takes me back.
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Jul 5, 2023 20:35
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Frosted Flake posted:That guy told great stories. drat that takes me back. Do you remember the poster's name? I don't I never looked far into considering if his stories were legit. Incredible stories though.
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Jul 5, 2023 20:38
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Oh man, wasn't that the guy who had to check the wind and other weather stuff to see where he'd have to aim chemicals to kill the maximum number of people? And he became a massive alcoholic because of that? I also remember the building they were quartered at makimg a loud-rear end boom sound every so often, for reasons no one had determined, and him finding a concealed space with nazi knives? That one? Or did I dream that? If it's the same, I always thought his story of him turning down his big-boobed, older fellow soldier was BS. In my headcanon he did the deed.
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Jul 5, 2023 21:15
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Ant something?
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Jul 5, 2023 21:16
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Phase one looking pretty optimistic imo
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Jul 5, 2023 21:46
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that graph sucks and is very small component of logistics.
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Jul 5, 2023 21:52
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Bar Ran Dun posted:that graph sucks and is very small component of logistics. Yeah, it's one graph in an entire book about Land Force Logistics.
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Jul 5, 2023 21:56
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sorry brd that graph means the covenant has been broken and the us will be destroyed
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Jul 5, 2023 21:57
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