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NIMBY?
NIMBY
YIMBY
I can't afford my medicine.
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Kalit
Nov 6, 2006

The great thing about the thousands of slaughtered Palestinian children is that they can't pull away when you fondle them or sniff their hair.

That's a Biden success story.

Cicero posted:

Minneapolis also broadly upzoned residential land recently didn't they?

Yep, in 2019 the city council voted to allow, at a minimum, triplexes city-wide: https://www.kare11.com/article/news...1e-6e180d84d329

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Jaxyon
Mar 7, 2016
I’m just saying I would like to see a man beat a woman in a cage. Just to be sure.
Probably already posted somewhere in this thread, but here's some Youtube channels I've been enjoying on Urban Planning

Not Just Bikes:
https://www.youtube.com/@NotJustBikes

Armchair Urbanist
https://www.youtube.com/@alanthefisher

City Nerd
https://www.youtube.com/@CityNerd

Nitrousoxide
May 30, 2011

do not buy a oneplus phone



Jaxyon posted:

Probably already posted somewhere in this thread, but here's some Youtube channels I've been enjoying on Urban Planning

Not Just Bikes:
https://www.youtube.com/@NotJustBikes

Armchair Urbanist
https://www.youtube.com/@alanthefisher

City Nerd
https://www.youtube.com/@CityNerd

Added these to the OP

Deltasquid
Apr 10, 2013

awww...
you guys made me ink!


THUNDERDOME

Jaxyon posted:

Probably already posted somewhere in this thread, but here's some Youtube channels I've been enjoying on Urban Planning

Not Just Bikes:
https://www.youtube.com/@NotJustBikes

Armchair Urbanist
https://www.youtube.com/@alanthefisher

City Nerd
https://www.youtube.com/@CityNerd

Can I also recommend this fellow?

https://www.youtube.com/@the_aesthetic_city

He strays more into architecture than urban planning (in particular, really railing against modernist architecture) but most of his videos actually tie back into urban planning as well (at least tangentially) because creating an agreeable space to live in goes hand it hand with actually having attractive buildings.

See this video in particular, which explicitly discusses the redevelopment of a Paris suburb where aesthetic improvements went hand in hand with creating a walkable, liveable city: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfonhlM6I7w

Ham Equity
Apr 16, 2013

The first thing we do, let's kill all the cars.
Grimey Drawer
I really like Strongtowns:

https://www.youtube.com/@strongtowns

Their older stuff has good content, but is really dry and kind of hard to watch; they recently hired a dude to make their YouTube videos for them, and they have gotten way better.

Also, the best NotJustBikes video is one of the ones he did with StrongTowns (which I am absolutely certain has been posted in here before):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Nw6qyyrTeI

Jaxyon
Mar 7, 2016
I’m just saying I would like to see a man beat a woman in a cage. Just to be sure.

Ham Equity posted:

I really like Strongtowns:

https://www.youtube.com/@strongtowns

Their older stuff has good content, but is really dry and kind of hard to watch; they recently hired a dude to make their YouTube videos for them, and they have gotten way better.

Also, the best NotJustBikes video is one of the ones he did with StrongTowns (which I am absolutely certain has been posted in here before):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Nw6qyyrTeI

I've posted that exact video, just not in this thread.

Strongtowns is also good.

Nitrousoxide
May 30, 2011

do not buy a oneplus phone



Added the additional couple of channels to the OP

Baronash
Feb 29, 2012

So what do you want to be called?

Ham Equity posted:

I really like Strongtowns:

https://www.youtube.com/@strongtowns

Their older stuff has good content, but is really dry and kind of hard to watch; they recently hired a dude to make their YouTube videos for them, and they have gotten way better.

Also, the best NotJustBikes video is one of the ones he did with StrongTowns (which I am absolutely certain has been posted in here before):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Nw6qyyrTeI

Pretty much all of the interesting NotJustBikes videos are remakes of Strong Towns videos, in some cases down to copying sections word for word.

Strong Towns' own videos are interesting and worth watching, but they definitely seem to vacillate between massively oversimplifying development/city financing and just outright making poo poo up in order to create examples for their arguments.

Baronash fucked around with this message at 01:46 on Apr 26, 2023

Ham Equity
Apr 16, 2013

The first thing we do, let's kill all the cars.
Grimey Drawer

Baronash posted:

Pretty much all of the interesting NotJustBikes videos are remakes of Strong Towns videos, in some cases down to copying sections word for word.

The NJB guy is waaaaaaayyyy better at presentation than the StrongTown people were. Like I said, their content was great, but their videos sucked.

And I would disagree, the most enraging/my favorite NJB video is this one:

https://youtu.be/56b5cI2qtYQ


With pretty much all of these videos, I'm always cognizant that Amsterdam is being presented through rose-colored glasses, but this is some loving Never-Never Land poo poo. I have helped so many friends move, the idea that this is a thing anywhere on earth, and somehow we as a species haven't decided to copy it literally everywhere is mind-bendingly frustrating.

Ham Equity fucked around with this message at 01:49 on Apr 26, 2023

mobby_6kl
Aug 9, 2009

by Fluffdaddy
I posted this in the curse images thread a few days back but I kind of got more upset about it since then. There's some feel-good backstory there about the owner of that McMansion refusing to sell this part of the land to greedy developers (but they probably owned the area around it too) but just looking at it:


https://goo.gl/maps/oABdWAo8eM2CA4Bg9

You've got terrible sprawl and a giant house with an enormous grass lawn and 200 meter long driveway. The small houses are stand-alone but most don't even have a backyard worth mentioning. Half of the ground floor is the garage:



Why aren't they row houses? Not to mention apartment buildings. You could fit 6 buildings like the one I'm in, which have 4 floor x 3 apartments x 4 entrances, so space for 288 families in the space of just the lawn:



There are underground garages, ground floor has backyards, top floors have large roof access, everyone else has terraces. And there's still enough space between the building for a common area for children to play or to walk your dog or something. My area is frankly quieter than the more suburban type place where my parents live, as someone isn't constantly using a pressure washer or vacuuming their car in the driveway etc.


Frankly that's probably my biggest gripe with that sort of place, you end up with dense residential areas with nothing to do there, and I think City Beautiful actually did good job of highlighting how the Soviet city district planning worked here, which, despite all the other issues, I think was a good idea:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGVBv7svKLo&t=411s

I actually lived in a place like this:

There's a tram stop on the left edge, two kindergartens, a school, a pond, a football field, several playgrounds, gyms, a few shops and cafes. The main problem was that everyone was poor as gently caress but the actual planning was very cool imo.

AtomikKrab
Jul 17, 2010

Keep on GOP rolling rolling rolling rolling.

mobby_6kl posted:

I posted this in the curse images thread a few days back but I kind of got more upset about it since then. There's some feel-good backstory there about the owner of that McMansion refusing to sell this part of the land to greedy developers (but they probably owned the area around it too) but just looking at it:


https://goo.gl/maps/oABdWAo8eM2CA4Bg9

You've got terrible sprawl and a giant house with an enormous grass lawn and 200 meter long driveway. The small houses are stand-alone but most don't even have a backyard worth mentioning. Half of the ground floor is the garage:



Why aren't they row houses? Not to mention apartment buildings. You could fit 6 buildings like the one I'm in, which have 4 floor x 3 apartments x 4 entrances, so space for 288 families in the space of just the lawn:



There are underground garages, ground floor has backyards, top floors have large roof access, everyone else has terraces. And there's still enough space between the building for a common area for children to play or to walk your dog or something. My area is frankly quieter than the more suburban type place where my parents live, as someone isn't constantly using a pressure washer or vacuuming their car in the driveway etc.


Frankly that's probably my biggest gripe with that sort of place, you end up with dense residential areas with nothing to do there, and I think City Beautiful actually did good job of highlighting how the Soviet city district planning worked here, which, despite all the other issues, I think was a good idea:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGVBv7svKLo&t=411s

I actually lived in a place like this:

There's a tram stop on the left edge, two kindergartens, a school, a pond, a football field, several playgrounds, gyms, a few shops and cafes. The main problem was that everyone was poor as gently caress but the actual planning was very cool imo.

That looks like basically, an old farm house plot that was upgraded, the family sold off the land AROUND that bit with the actual house to other farmers who eventually sold to developers. You can tell the developers 100% hoped to get that plot based on the road network

Mooseontheloose
May 13, 2003

AtomikKrab posted:

That looks like basically, an old farm house plot that was upgraded, the family sold off the land AROUND that bit with the actual house to other farmers who eventually sold to developers. You can tell the developers 100% hoped to get that plot based on the road network

I am in the Northeast United States and I see a property like that and say, at least can you let the natural fauna grow again? I hate when wooded lots get taken down for single family homes.

AtomikKrab
Jul 17, 2010

Keep on GOP rolling rolling rolling rolling.

Mooseontheloose posted:

I am in the Northeast United States and I see a property like that and say, at least can you let the natural fauna grow again? I hate when wooded lots get taken down for single family homes.

Right, My mother briefly after her retirement had a property pretty much like this one, except the original farmhouse was still there and it had trees up, but all around it was farms (And commerical Chicken barns) that had originally been part of the property but that had been divided up and sold over the years.

wooger
Apr 16, 2005

YOU RESENT?

Mooseontheloose posted:

I am in the Northeast United States and I see a property like that and say, at least can you let the natural fauna grow again? I hate when wooded lots get taken down for single family homes.

Even more than the wasteful use of space, the complete lack of trees is shocking to me.

Why the hell would you want to flaunt your wealth with a large garden around your property and then have the most basic dull garden possible, that also in purely practical terms doesn’t provide even the tiniest amount of shade or wind blocking or privacy.

Jaxyon
Mar 7, 2016
I’m just saying I would like to see a man beat a woman in a cage. Just to be sure.
Yeah complete miss on having big old trees lining your driveway

Greg12
Apr 22, 2020

mobby_6kl posted:


I actually lived in a place like this:

There's a tram stop on the left edge, two kindergartens, a school, a pond, a football field, several playgrounds, gyms, a few shops and cafes. The main problem was that everyone was poor as gently caress but the actual planning was very cool imo.

was it difficult living in a gravitational vortex

did you hang out with mc escher

Greg12
Apr 22, 2020

https://goo.gl/maps/oABdWAo8eM2CA4Bg9

Greg12 posted:

"it turns out that the old man in Up was the villain"

mobby_6kl
Aug 9, 2009

by Fluffdaddy

Greg12 posted:

was it difficult living in a gravitational vortex

did you hang out with mc escher
Falling from my bed directly into the school was pretty convenient. Haven't met Escher unfortunately.

I should probably watch that movie

Greg12
Apr 22, 2020
https://twitter.com/ajlamesa/status/1660006734172127233

this will be the end of "planning as a process" inshallah

Elendil004
Mar 22, 2003

The prognosis
is not good.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jNuRpYaPLuA

City Beautiful asking the right questions.

mobby_6kl
Aug 9, 2009

by Fluffdaddy

Greg12 posted:

https://twitter.com/ajlamesa/status/1660006734172127233

this will be the end of "planning as a process" inshallah

Somehow it's not in the thread but someone shared a budget breakdown for this thing and the consulting team spent like $500k traveling around the world to learn how bus shelter design impacts gender inclusion and diversity. And then suggested that fuckin thing.

Mooseontheloose
May 13, 2003

Elendil004 posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jNuRpYaPLuA

City Beautiful asking the right questions.

City Beautiful has the right idea I would add:

-Developers must include do mixed income developments even in a cookie cutter neighborhood
-No more back lawns, allow for natural vegetation to thrive and contribute to a different looking neighborhood.
-Tighter loan enforcement as black families are still getting charged more than white families on loans.

Fitzy Fitz
May 14, 2005




I would get rid of front lawns before back ones. Reduce setbacks so that houses are on the street. In the back you can have a fenced lawn/garden like an English rowhouse.

Fill Baptismal
Dec 15, 2008
The Sombrita thing is beyond loving parody and perfect microcosm of everything wrong with urban planning in the US right now. The most instructive part of it is that actual city planning officials are defending it! They don't think that they did anything wrong!

I hope they get poo poo for it forever and that the careers of everyone involved are negatively impacted. It's way past time that there start being consequences for this poo poo.

Jaxyon
Mar 7, 2016
I’m just saying I would like to see a man beat a woman in a cage. Just to be sure.
Speaking of city planning the city of LA has no plan.

There never has been one, literally. Many cities have a master planning document, LA does not have that.

Elendil004
Mar 22, 2003

The prognosis
is not good.


Jaxyon posted:

Speaking of city planning the city of LA has no plan.

There never has been one, literally. Many cities have a master planning document, LA does not have that.

https://planning.lacity.org/plans-policies/general-plan-overview

I don't know if the plan is any good but they have a master plan.

Mooseontheloose
May 13, 2003

Fitzy Fitz posted:

I would get rid of front lawns before back ones. Reduce setbacks so that houses are on the street. In the back you can have a fenced lawn/garden like an English rowhouse.

My thought is that backlawns would restore habitat if connected together.

Greg12
Apr 22, 2020
x

Greg12 fucked around with this message at 22:46 on Aug 21, 2023

Kalit
Nov 6, 2006

The great thing about the thousands of slaughtered Palestinian children is that they can't pull away when you fondle them or sniff their hair.

That's a Biden success story.
Recently, my city of Minneapolis has been discussing having the city clear residents' sidewalks instead of the property owner. Does anyone know of any (larger) cities where this program works more efficiently/thorough than having residents clear them?

I know Montreal does this, but when I look it up it seems like the average time to clear is 4 days, which seems like a terribly long time for trudging through snow on residential sidewalks.

I'm kind of skeptical about the implementation of it, especially since I'm sure this would have a lot of people start to ignore any snow buildup on sidewalks when it's not enough snowfall for the city to come through and clear it.

Kalit fucked around with this message at 19:59 on Jun 9, 2023

Baronash
Feb 29, 2012

So what do you want to be called?
Urban planning as it related to public spaces like parks is interesting to me, and locally we had a reminder of the consequences of, to put it generously, poorly thought out planning.

Duke University, Durham Parks and Rec Didn’t Inform Public About Lead in Durham Parks

quote:

Soil at three Durham parks—Walltown, East End, and East Durham—and presumably a fourth, Lyon Park, contain levels of lead as much as six times the EPA hazard threshold for play areas, a Duke University study found. But the university and the Durham Parks and Recreation Department sat on the findings for months, sharing them in late May only after a Walltown resident stumbled upon the research paper online.
The lack of communication is obviously frustrating, but who could have expected there to be elevated levels in random public...

quote:

From the early 1900s to 1940, they were home to city-owned incinerators, which burned lead-containing material. They are in historically Black neighborhoods and in former redlined areas where environmental racism and health disparities persist.
Ah.

It's wild to me that concern about leaded gasoline, lead paint, and lead pipes started coming into the forefront in the 70s, but it took 50 more years and some rando's master's thesis to prompt the city to look into it. Are planners generally proactive about considering historical sources of contamination, or does it only come up when a specific site or parcel is being looked at for redevelopment?

Fitzy Fitz
May 14, 2005




I actually did soil sampling for a city park once. The city wanted to switch places between a dog park and a playground, and parents were concerned that the soil was contaminated from years of dog feces. I was instructed not to sample in areas that were likely to be contaminated. Not as bad as lead, but man.

Greg12
Apr 22, 2020
city planning is reactive

reaganism broke government

Jaxyon
Mar 7, 2016
I’m just saying I would like to see a man beat a woman in a cage. Just to be sure.
LA actually got some folks planning on converting office space into apartments

https://la.urbanize.city/post/residential-conversion-planned-33-story-office-tower-1055-7th-street

Cugel the Clever
Apr 5, 2009
I LOVE AMERICA AND CAPITALISM DESPITE BEING POOR AS FUCK. I WILL NEVER RETIRE BUT HERE'S ANOTHER 200$ FOR UKRAINE, SLAVA

Jaxyon posted:

LA actually got some folks planning on converting office space into apartments

https://la.urbanize.city/post/residential-conversion-planned-33-story-office-tower-1055-7th-street
Hmm, wonder how that's gonna go for them. My superficial understanding is that a design intended for an office space is ill-suited to adaptation for a residential layout, but any new homes are better than none.

Let's see if it gets through the reactionary NIMBY gauntlet.

Jaxyon
Mar 7, 2016
I’m just saying I would like to see a man beat a woman in a cage. Just to be sure.

Cugel the Clever posted:

Hmm, wonder how that's gonna go for them. My superficial understanding is that a design intended for an office space is ill-suited to adaptation for a residential layout, but any new homes are better than none.

I've always heard that, which is why I posted. It might be that the LA market is so expensive that the financials make sense.

Per the article, there's already a bunch of adaptive re-use happening in LA, and more here than anywhere else.

https://therealdeal.com/la/2022/11/15/la-leads-nation-in-apartment-conversions/

quote:

Let's see if it gets through the reactionary NIMBY gauntlet.

Doubt it will have issues

Jaxyon fucked around with this message at 04:07 on Jun 21, 2023

AtomikKrab
Jul 17, 2010

Keep on GOP rolling rolling rolling rolling.

Cugel the Clever posted:

Hmm, wonder how that's gonna go for them. My superficial understanding is that a design intended for an office space is ill-suited to adaptation for a residential layout, but any new homes are better than none.

Let's see if it gets through the reactionary NIMBY gauntlet.

If there is enough money to be made it will be adapted, it just will cost them more.

mobby_6kl
Aug 9, 2009

by Fluffdaddy
They convert factories and other industrial spaces into residential all the time, I'm sure it'll be possible to convert offices just fine with sufficient (financial) motivation. It always seemed weird how the downtown in American cities become completely empty which is kind of a waste of real estate, hopefully this will help with more mixed-use areas.

Jasper Tin Neck
Nov 14, 2008


"Scientifically proven, rich and creamy."

mobby_6kl posted:

They convert factories and other industrial spaces into residential all the time, I'm sure it'll be possible to convert offices just fine with sufficient (financial) motivation. It always seemed weird how the downtown in American cities become completely empty which is kind of a waste of real estate, hopefully this will help with more mixed-use areas.

Unfortunately there's a reason you rarely see residential conversion of industrial or commercial buildings built after the widespread adoption of electricity.

The reason is that before widespread adoption of electricity, factory machinery had to be organised around a driveshaft or belt system powered by a single steam engine or water wheel. All of these spaces also have to be lit by big windows because there was no other economical light source. This results in a multi-storey building plan with relatively shallow floor plans, which lends itself well to loft conversions.

Industrial architecture didn't immediately adapt to electricity but once industrial planners realised you could easily wire power to many (relatively) small machines instead of one big one, you start seeing the vast, windowless, single-floor production facilities we know today.

Similarly, offices and administrative buildings used to have much shallower floor plans, because how else would you have enough light to work? That changed with the widespread adoption of electric lighting, which ushered in the vast office halls we know and dread.

The specialisation afforded by electric power is the reason why most non-residential buildings built after 1950s are mostly incompatible with residential uses, at least without heavy demolition or allowing for windowless cubicle apartments.

Cicero
Dec 17, 2003

Jumpjet, melta, jumpjet. Repeat for ten minutes or until victory is assured.
Yeah but apparently office to residential conversion has become common in like Ohio I think?

fake edit: https://fox8.com/news/cleveland-among-national-leaders-in-converting-office-space-into-residential-communities/

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Nitrousoxide
May 30, 2011

do not buy a oneplus phone



Jasper Tin Neck posted:

Unfortunately there's a reason you rarely see residential conversion of industrial or commercial buildings built after the widespread adoption of electricity.

The reason is that before widespread adoption of electricity, factory machinery had to be organised around a driveshaft or belt system powered by a single steam engine or water wheel. All of these spaces also have to be lit by big windows because there was no other economical light source. This results in a multi-storey building plan with relatively shallow floor plans, which lends itself well to loft conversions.

Industrial architecture didn't immediately adapt to electricity but once industrial planners realised you could easily wire power to many (relatively) small machines instead of one big one, you start seeing the vast, windowless, single-floor production facilities we know today.

Similarly, offices and administrative buildings used to have much shallower floor plans, because how else would you have enough light to work? That changed with the widespread adoption of electric lighting, which ushered in the vast office halls we know and dread.

The specialisation afforded by electric power is the reason why most non-residential buildings built after 1950s are mostly incompatible with residential uses, at least without heavy demolition or allowing for windowless cubicle apartments.

You can probably do it, but as you said there are portions of the building that may not be acceptable as living spaces. Some of them could be converted to common areas, or you could have a core of commercial/office space in the center of a ring of residential floorspace. Though that creates its own issues as you would likely need to separate the elevators or street access to each.

There's also the problem of the per-foot valuation of residential properties being far lower than commercial making existing mortgages that might be in place for a property untenable. This may work itself out as commercial/office properties just generally getting devalued if they continue to have significant high vacancy rates.

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