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Trimson Grondag 3
Jul 1, 2007

Clapping Larry
The jancis robinson wine glass was quite similar to the zalto universal in terms of fineness, and some of the Plumm range too. The Zaltos really are special though, managed to not break any glasses after six years which I think is an achievement. I did break a zalto decanter by dropping a teaspoon on it though.

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Jean-Paul Shartre
Jan 16, 2015

this sentence no verb


The Zaltos actually aren't that bad. Had a set of six for ~two years, dishwashing to clean them, have not broken any. I mean don't be stupid with them, but you can use them in everyday life just fine - they feel weaker than they actually are.

Skooms
Nov 5, 2009

GTO posted:

Does anyone have a good recommendation for wine glasses? I've got quite a few reidel but looking for something different this time. I was recommended zalto and gabriel glas but they are permanently out of stock.

The thinner the better, looking for a single universal glass that I can use for everything. Needs to be dishwasher safe and not break when you look at it. £25 to £40 per glass is fine.

Glas.vin is a solid choice, geometry not quite as nice as the other choices but better pricing/availability. This is completely anecdotal experience but I believe Zalto has changed their production and is making lower quality glasses. I handled a few stems that someone I know purchased recently and they were heavier and had slight changes in shape to the original models.

avantgardener
Sep 16, 2003

Thanks, they look like a good option!

I actually weighed some of my glasses, a basic cheapo large wine glass was 222g, a large Riedel machine made glass was 166g, those glasvin universals purport to come in around 100g so should be quite noticeable hopefully.

avantgardener fucked around with this message at 16:06 on Dec 8, 2022

Comb Your Beard
Sep 28, 2007

Chillin' like a villian.
Seconding Glasvin universals. They are all I use. Good balance of lightness and not wtf this is gonna break. No weird shapes. Slightly cheaper but not that much really.

Crimson
Nov 7, 2002
Grassl glasses are nice too, a small step in quality from Glasvin. Their Liberté glass makes for a solid univeral, although to be honest I've been using the 1855 for just about everything for a larger universal style glass.

WhiteHowler
Apr 3, 2001

I'M HUGE!
Apologies if this has been answered a million times, but I scanned back a few pages and didn't see it mentioned.

Are any of the big US wine shipping retailers worth using? Is there one that goons would recommend? My state recently legalized to-the-home wine deliveries. Some of the companies haven't updated to allow my state yet, but a few have.

My wife and I are not huge wine drinkers but want to sample more. We mostly don't leave the house due to pandemic stuff, so delivery has become a staple in our lives.

Or am I better off throwing on a mask and braving my local mega-mart's wine aisle? Publix has a surprisingly large selection, though it's obviously mostly mass-market wines.

MrYenko
Jun 18, 2012

#2 isn't ALWAYS bad...

WhiteHowler posted:

Apologies if this has been answered a million times, but I scanned back a few pages and didn't see it mentioned.

Are any of the big US wine shipping retailers worth using? Is there one that goons would recommend? My state recently legalized to-the-home wine deliveries. Some of the companies haven't updated to allow my state yet, but a few have.

My wife and I are not huge wine drinkers but want to sample more. We mostly don't leave the house due to pandemic stuff, so delivery has become a staple in our lives.

Or am I better off throwing on a mask and braving my local mega-mart's wine aisle? Publix has a surprisingly large selection, though it's obviously mostly mass-market wines.

Publix is honestly how I got into wine, so there’s no harm there.

I got MrsYenko a first leaf subscription for her birthday this year, and it’s been pretty solid. The wines are definitely marked up a bit, but so far it’s been 100% worth it to have a grab bag of selection dropped off every month or three. I do wish they would let you exclude certain wines though; Neither of us particularly care for Chardonnay, so we’ve had to pawn a few bottles off on friends.

Hed
Mar 31, 2004

Fun Shoe

WhiteHowler posted:

Apologies if this has been answered a million times, but I scanned back a few pages and didn't see it mentioned.

Are any of the big US wine shipping retailers worth using? Is there one that goons would recommend? My state recently legalized to-the-home wine deliveries. Some of the companies haven't updated to allow my state yet, but a few have.

My wife and I are not huge wine drinkers but want to sample more. We mostly don't leave the house due to pandemic stuff, so delivery has become a staple in our lives.

Or am I better off throwing on a mask and braving my local mega-mart's wine aisle? Publix has a surprisingly large selection, though it's obviously mostly mass-market wines.

If you have some wineries you've been to and like, join their wine club. It may take them a bit to get updated but they'll get there.

I've really enjoyed Wine Access (.com) to try a bunch of different stuff. Their clubs seem thoughtful and once you find something good you can often find it at Total Wine (which can have pickup or delivery depending).

Also there's like your neighborhood wine houses, which are probably not very trafficked if you're worried about running in to others. They can really take a personal touch. The best imo are the ones that are from people who used to work at another wine place and decided they could do better, and that the old place's wine clubs were about offloading things that weren't selling. They might surprise you as well.

No shame in Publix / grocery stores.

WhiteHowler
Apr 3, 2001

I'M HUGE!

Hed posted:

If you have some wineries you've been to and like, join their wine club. It may take them a bit to get updated but they'll get there.

Also there's like your neighborhood wine houses, which are probably not very trafficked if you're worried about running in to others. They can really take a personal touch. The best imo are the ones that are from people who used to work at another wine place and decided they could do better, and that the old place's wine clubs were about offloading things that weren't selling. They might surprise you as well.

My city is a bit of a cultural void, so there are fewer wine bars and such than a city of this size should probably have.

We have a few local-ish wineries, all of which are extremely small, and I don't think they do any kind of clubs or anything. Most of them specialize in Muscadine wines, which are okay but tend too sweet for me.

I think my biggest hurdle is that I don't know what I like in a wine. I know some specific wines that I enjoy, but they don't usually have a lot in common. I don't love wines with a lot of tannins, and I prefer mid-range on sweetness -- I don't like wines that are so dry they can strip varnish off a table, or the cough syrup dessert wines that my wife prefers.

One of my favorite wines ever was a smooth Riesling, but I've run into a bunch of other Rieslings I hated. Cabernets tend too dry and/or tannin-y for me. I usually enjoy Malbecs. I've never met a Chardonnay I've liked. Sauvignon Blancs tend to be good but boring. And I know the type of grape is only a small piece of what makes an enjoyable wine, but it's one of the few details you can get from a label when you're scrambling at the grocery store 15 minutes before a party.

Reading reviews has been helpful in the past, but there's usually a big disconnect between what's available and what's been reviewed. Or you'll find a great review for a 2014 vintage with the footnote "but after 2016 all of their wine has been piss". I guess I just need to bite the bullet, pick up some extra bottles, and be ready to hate some stuff while I'm finding new favorites.

MrYenko
Jun 18, 2012

#2 isn't ALWAYS bad...

Try an un-oaked Chardonnay if you ever get a chance. They’re a bit hard to find, but are my exception to the no-Chardonnay rule.

Furious Lobster
Jun 17, 2006

Soiled Meat

MrYenko posted:

Try an un-oaked Chardonnay if you ever get a chance. They’re a bit hard to find, but are my exception to the no-Chardonnay rule.

Are you just drinking New World chardonnays?

MrYenko
Jun 18, 2012

#2 isn't ALWAYS bad...

Furious Lobster posted:

Are you just drinking New World chardonnays?

I’ve had a couple French ones that I didn’t particularly enjoy either, though they were notably better than the Californians I’ve had.

I don’t particularly care for wood-aged liquors either. :shrug:

Furious Lobster
Jun 17, 2006

Soiled Meat

MrYenko posted:

I’ve had a couple French ones that I didn’t particularly enjoy either, though they were notably better than the Californians I’ve had.

Do you like champagne?

quote:

I don’t particularly care for wood-aged liquors either. :shrug:

So, you just drink clear spirits? No whiskey of any type I'm assuming.

Shooting Blanks
Jun 6, 2007

Real bullets mess up how cool this thing looks.

-Blade



WhiteHowler posted:

Apologies if this has been answered a million times, but I scanned back a few pages and didn't see it mentioned.

Are any of the big US wine shipping retailers worth using? Is there one that goons would recommend? My state recently legalized to-the-home wine deliveries. Some of the companies haven't updated to allow my state yet, but a few have.

My wife and I are not huge wine drinkers but want to sample more. We mostly don't leave the house due to pandemic stuff, so delivery has become a staple in our lives.

Or am I better off throwing on a mask and braving my local mega-mart's wine aisle? Publix has a surprisingly large selection, though it's obviously mostly mass-market wines.

There are a couple approaches you could take.

There are DTC (Direct-To-Consumer) clubs that use a machine learning driven approach to figure out what you do and don't like. I haven't tried one and can't recommend as a result, but you can look at Firstleaf, Bright Cellars or any more of the dozens (if not hundreds) of options out there. That said, these are generally on a subscription model and I can't speak to their plans - they may require a monthly box, a quarterly box, I don't know. Investigate and figure out if you'll be ordering more than you can consume.

One option I have used in the past, and was quite happy with, was Garagiste (https://www.garagiste.com). I don't really drink wine any more, but their model is not subscription based - it's a mailing list. You'll get a daily email with what they have on offer, they cellar it for you until you have a full case (or cases) to ship, and when the weather is right. You can request shipment at any time, and they'll do it. Buy as much or as little as you want, but it is a CYOA service. It's at least worth getting on their mailing list and seeing what they're selling these days, since there's no obligation.

MrYenko
Jun 18, 2012

#2 isn't ALWAYS bad...

Furious Lobster posted:

Do you like champagne?

So, you just drink clear spirits? No whiskey of any type I'm assuming.

I’ve never had a champagne that I’d drink out of anything other than duty-because-it’s-new-year.

I’ll drink whiskey, but I don’t really ENJOY it. Liquor of any kind straight-up or on the rocks is a loving mystery to me. I’m beer (!) and wine and mixed-drinks kind of guy. Covid gave me a nasty ($$$) Tiki problem, and I’ve developed a Jamaican rum problem.

Wood isn’t food, is my feeling.

taco show
Oct 6, 2011

motherforker


thotsky posted:

What? Spiegelau built their business on being machine washable.
I’ve definitely broken a few in my dishwasher but it’s their ‘high line’ collection or something like that. I only have three left :(

Anyway, some friends and I are planning a wine trip to Champagne and Alsace. Any must see/must try? We are probably going to stay in Reims but Epernay has more of the big houses?

Bilirubin
Feb 16, 2014

The sanctioned action is to CHUG


idiotsavant posted:

Yeah Tatomers are very deec. If you want some insane CA riesling you miiiiight be able to find some of the old mid-90's Renaissance bottlings; I think the winemaker re-released most of them under his own Clos Saron label as the "Taken From Granite" series. It's definitely super small & super niche and now and again a bottle might be a little oxidized but they are also loving incredible wines. Not cheap but idk that you'd find comparable US 30-yo US rieslings at the same price.

Also definitely look to Oregon & look to Finger Lakes if you want to experiment. Like Crimson says you won't really get that ethereal laser beauty of German riesling but there are still some solid, drinkable dry rieslings from both areas.

Have to give a shout out to the dry Rieslings from the Okanagan and Similkameen Valleys of British Columbia. If you can get some try Eighth Generation or Ex Nihilo.

Right now I am having a Black Sage 2019 Zinfandel that tastes to delicious that I'm pretty sure I'm going to get into trouble for opening something too expensive on a week night

Subjunctive
Sep 12, 2006

✨sparkle and shine✨

Shooting Blanks posted:

One option I have used in the past, and was quite happy with, was Garagiste (https://www.garagiste.com). I don't really drink wine any more, but their model is not subscription based - it's a mailing list. You'll get a daily email with what they have on offer, they cellar it for you until you have a full case (or cases) to ship, and when the weather is right. You can request shipment at any time, and they'll do it. Buy as much or as little as you want, but it is a CYOA service. It's at least worth getting on their mailing list and seeing what they're selling these days, since there's no obligation.

I really wish there was something like this in Ontario!

Carillon
May 9, 2014






We ended up with a hole in our trip to Sonoma due to a friend not checking if the winery was closed this week. Any ideas for places to check out? We're staying by the square but do have transport. So prioritizing walking but not in any way essential.

taco show
Oct 6, 2011

motherforker


Carillon posted:

We ended up with a hole in our trip to Sonoma due to a friend not checking if the winery was closed this week. Any ideas for places to check out? We're staying by the square but do have transport. So prioritizing walking but not in any way essential.

Downtown Sonoma:
Bedrock!! Quality wines for killer prices. I particularly like their syrah but they also make a very good rose. There's also a pretty cool champagne bar called Sigh.

Not walking:
J Vineyards is really beautiful and a fun tasting (good sparklers). Ridge if you're into zins. They have a nice patio seating area, but if it's chilly the interior is nothing special.

Carillon
May 9, 2014






taco show posted:

Downtown Sonoma:
Bedrock!! Quality wines for killer prices. I particularly like their syrah but they also make a very good rose. There's also a pretty cool champagne bar called Sigh.

Not walking:
J Vineyards is really beautiful and a fun tasting (good sparklers). Ridge if you're into zins. They have a nice patio seating area, but if it's chilly the interior is nothing special.

TY! They didn't have reservations while we were there, but I'm absolutely going to check out Bedrock next time we're up.

Comb Your Beard
Sep 28, 2007

Chillin' like a villian.
Can champagne get mouse or premox? Had a fail champagne on NYE, the nose was strange, flavor muted, bruised apple. All the CT notes are good. Champagne Lété-Vautrain Brut Zéro. WTSO gave me refund. I had a backup, some Cremant Burg Blanc de Noirs.

thotsky
Jun 7, 2005

hot to trot
Define "strange". Mouse is unmistakable if you are not among the people who can't taste it at all. It's a stale cereal flavor detected at the end of, or a second or two after the swallow. It can happen in anything if the conditions are right.

Muted flavors are more commonly associated with cork taint, but I am pretty terrible at identifying cork so don't have a good description of it. You can't confuse it with mouse though, nothing about mouse is muted. In fact I will often be smelling a particularly inviting natural wine and my reaction these days will usually be "please don't be a mousy wine that the winemaker should have sat on for at least another year instead of rushing to market and ruining natural wine for everybody", and then have a sip that comes with a 20% chance of being really happy at the end of it.

Bruised apple is a pretty common note in oxidative champagnes. That's quite in style at the moment, and I do see some reviews mentioning it for this champagne.

thotsky fucked around with this message at 02:52 on Jan 4, 2023

Skooms
Nov 5, 2009

Comb Your Beard posted:

Can champagne get mouse or premox? Had a fail champagne on NYE, the nose was strange, flavor muted, bruised apple. All the CT notes are good. Champagne Lété-Vautrain Brut Zéro. WTSO gave me refund. I had a backup, some Cremant Burg Blanc de Noirs.

I'd say from the combination of strange nose and muted flavor that it was corked. Mouse taint (from my professional experience) is typically only noticeable on the palate after opening and develops on the palate over the span of 10 to 60 minutes; if it's apparent on the nose immediately after opening it would taste like absolute dog poo poo. I also think I've only identified mouse taint in a non - san soufre wine 2-3 times over 10 years but YMMV.

idiotsavant
Jun 4, 2000

Bilirubin posted:

Have to give a shout out to the dry Rieslings from the Okanagan and Similkameen Valleys of British Columbia. If you can get some try Eighth Generation or Ex Nihilo.

Right now I am having a Black Sage 2019 Zinfandel that tastes to delicious that I'm pretty sure I'm going to get into trouble for opening something too expensive on a week night

As long as we're still talking Riesling, the 2021 Peter Lauer "Barrel X" feinherb is absolutely bonkers, especially at the price. It manages to hit an impossible balance where there's the smallest bit of RS up front that juices up the attack but disappears entirely as it evolves on the palate and finishes dry. And it's like 25-ish bucks, total steal.

Bilirubin
Feb 16, 2014

The sanctioned action is to CHUG


New study suggests wine grapes were domesticated in the stone age, end of last glacial maximum, 12k years ago in Asia
https://www.washingtonpost.com/science/2023/03/02/wine-grapes-domesticated/

quote:

When the last Ice Age ended and the glaciers retreated, roughly 11,000 years ago, something appears to have changed among the wild grapevines of Asia. They became domesticated. The first farmers on Earth began cultivating the best vines with the biggest, juiciest grapes.

Wine, and civilization, soon followed.

That’s the implication of a major research study, published Thursday in the journal Science, from a sprawling collaboration of scientists from 17 nations. The team looked at genomes from thousands of grapevines gathered from across the Eurasian land mass to trace the plant’s long and winding journey from the Stone Age to your neighborhood wine bar.

In the process, researchers came across previously undocumented cultivars growing in old vineyards, a find that allowed the discoverers to name these overlooked or forgotten grape varieties.

The new work reinforces archaeological evidence that the development of agriculture was accompanied by abundant fermented beverages.

“The grapevine was probably the first fruit crop domesticated by humans,” senior author Wei Chen, an evolutionary biologist at Yunnan Agricultural University, said in a media briefing Thursday.

The research carried a geopolitical message as well, showing scientific cooperation at its best amid turbulent times.

“I think our collaboration shows that we can achieve big things, just like the ancient people that traded grapes across borders,” Chen said in an interview with The Washington Post.

Chen said that scientists in many nations had long explored when people began tinkering with wild grapevines to take advantage of the ones that produced the best fruit. But earlier studies had been done in isolation and often contradicted one another on the difficult question. Some estimates put domestication as far back as 15,000 years ago, well in advance of the development of agriculture.

Chen persuaded colleagues from across Europe and Asia to collaborate, creating a genomic database from vines across a vast region, from the Iberian Peninsula to Japan.

“We joined forces and looked into what’s really going on with grape evolution and grapevine domestication,” Chen said.

There are many species of grapevines, but only one, Vitis vinifera, supplies the wine that is recommended by a sommelier. The familiar grapes that segment the wine market — merlot, cabernet sauvignon, pinot noir — are varietals of that species.

“We care about this grape so much we gave each variety a specific name,” Chen said. “We don’t do it for, like, wheat or barley.”

There are still wild grapes with an ancient lineage, of the subspecies sylvestris. They tend to produce small grapes, few in number and bitter, but they’re valuable to modern society because they contain genes that offer resistance to diseases and climate change, said Peter Nick, a co-author of the new study and a plant biologist at the Karlsruhe Institute of Technology in Germany.

“These wild grapes and these very old varieties still have these resilience genes, which we will need to render the grape resistance against the challenge of climate change,” Nick said.

Research into grape domestication has long been dominated by archaeologists, who tell the story of that era through seeds and traces of wine in broken pottery. The people of prehistory had not yet invented writing, so the wine drinkers of 10 millennia ago did not leave behind vintage ratings or recommendations for which wine would pair nicely with roasted goat.

Genomic analysis represents a relatively new technique for penetrating the fog of prehistory — a period when the postglacial climate warmed, humans increased in number and cultures flourished.

Domesticated grapes are hermaphroditic and can fertilize themselves. The analysis of modern plants and their genetic history showed a change in the gene flow about 11,000 years ago that signaled a selection by early farmers for hermaphroditic grapevines.

But the new report has come up with a surprising twist on the story: Domestication happened twice, on different lineages of the wild grapes.

Both events occurred around the same time, one in the Caucasus region that includes modern-day Armenia, Georgia and Azerbaijan, and one in western Asia. The two regions are more than 600 miles apart. Chen noted that human migration, or cultural exchanges, could explain the two separate domestications. In other words, good ideas get around.

The study authors believe that the Caucasus line of grapevines gave rise to the ones selected for their winemaking potential, while the west Asian lineage was initially selected as a food source — table grapes. Surprisingly, those table grapes were then intermixed with wild grapes to create the wine-producing grapes found across much of western Asia and Europe, including the famous wine regions along the Mediterranean.

The analysis can’t answer the question of when people started fermenting grapes routinely to create wine, Nick said. But starting about 11,000 years ago, he said, “people deliberately were growing vines, and not just collecting the berries in the forest.”

Archaeological evidence places the earliest-known winemaking about 8,000 years ago in what is now Georgia, in the Caucasus. And grapevine varieties were clearly carried great distances, eventually leading to the profusion of wine varieties enjoyed by modern oenophiles.

“It was one of the first globally traded goods. It’s justified to say that the domestication of grapevines was really one of the driving forces of civilization,” Nick said.

But Patrick McGovern, a biomolecular archaeologist at the University of Pennsylvania Museum and author of the book “Ancient Wine,” said in an email that the new research falls short of proving that people had domesticated grapevines 11,000 years ago.

“Utilizing and even ‘cultivating’ wild grapes for food and drink is one thing, but actually ‘domesticating’ the grape is something altogether different and much more difficult,” McGovern said in an email. “For that, convincing archaeological, archaeobotanical, and/or chemical evidence is needed.”

He said the domestication of grapevines requires extensive horticultural skill.

“The combination of technological hurdles to be overcome in ‘domesticating’ the grapevine or any fruit plant may explain why of all the many grape species that grow worldwide … only the Eurasian grapevine (Vitis vinifera), on current evidence, was domesticated in antiquity,” he said.

obi_ant
Apr 8, 2005

Are all wine fridges basically the same? Looking for something that is reasonably priced.

anakha
Sep 16, 2009


obi_ant posted:

Are all wine fridges basically the same? Looking for something that is reasonably priced.

The best ones usually have at least two chambers and the ability to set different temps per chamber, but those are usually pretty expensive.

My only real advice would be to consider the number of bottles you plan to keep then get a fridge with twice that capacity.

Subjunctive
Sep 12, 2006

✨sparkle and shine✨

I think they will also differ by how much noise they make with the compressor.

unknown
Nov 16, 2002
Ain't got no stinking title yet!


Smaller fridges (up to 30 bottles) are thermo electric (peltier?) based and don't have compressors.

I've got dual zone 24 (12+12) bottle system, but if I would do it over, I would just get a single zone system. Also, koolatron are cheap buggers and didn't put a nvram chip in it to remember what the temp was set to on power restoration. So it resets every time back to 60f (both sides) when the power blips.

Also watch out that certain bottles can be too tall for many fridges!

obi_ant
Apr 8, 2005

While looking for the cheap wine fridge...









Oof!

Shooting Blanks
Jun 6, 2007

Real bullets mess up how cool this thing looks.

-Blade



Isn't that a little hard to evaluate without seeing a bottle list? Otherwise, nice boxes.

Carillon
May 9, 2014






taco show posted:

Downtown Sonoma:
Bedrock!! Quality wines for killer prices. I particularly like their syrah but they also make a very good rose. There's also a pretty cool champagne bar called Sigh.

Not walking:
J Vineyards is really beautiful and a fun tasting (good sparklers). Ridge if you're into zins. They have a nice patio seating area, but if it's chilly the interior is nothing special.

So thanks for this, Bedrock was amazing! I loved their wine so much, their sparkling Sangiacomo sparkling is amazing, rose was great, loved their flagship! It was pretty fantastic.

idiotsavant
Jun 4, 2000

Shooting Blanks posted:

Isn't that a little hard to evaluate without seeing a bottle list? Otherwise, nice boxes.

Even if the bottle list is solid, 15-yo unrefrigerated San Jose U-Stor-It wine is uh, optimistic

Steve Yun
Aug 7, 2003
I'm a parasitic landlord that needs to get a job instead of stealing worker's money. Make sure to remind me when I post.
Soiled Meat
https://twitter.com/popbase/status/1701286323817160783?s=46

thotsky
Jun 7, 2005

hot to trot
That poo poo is no joke. The London Beer Flood killed 8 people.

thotsky fucked around with this message at 08:30 on Sep 12, 2023

anakha
Sep 16, 2009


No alcohol involved, but a similar level of incompetence: The Boston Molasses Disaster killed 21 and injured 150.

Steve Yun
Aug 7, 2003
I'm a parasitic landlord that needs to get a job instead of stealing worker's money. Make sure to remind me when I post.
Soiled Meat

anakha posted:

No alcohol involved, but a similar level of incompetence: The Boston Molasses Disaster killed 21 and injured 150.

I think the molasses was being used in alcohol production and they were trying to sell it all before prohibition kicked in

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Comb Your Beard
Sep 28, 2007

Chillin' like a villian.

Steve Yun posted:

I think the molasses was being used in alcohol production and they were trying to sell it all before prohibition kicked in

Deleted, wrong thread.

Wine content: Been making my own rose like blends with 25% bold red, lot of dry Riesling, maybe some cheap Spanish rosado.

Comb Your Beard fucked around with this message at 17:18 on Sep 12, 2023

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