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16-2. In a world no longer poisoned by magic, Mid helps humanity survive by teaching them to use fossil fuels.
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Jul 6, 2023 03:37
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| # ? Jun 10, 2024 23:38 |
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the thing that's going to prevent any sequels or post-game DLC is that there's no magic so that takes like all of the gameplay out. It's a decision that makes the ending feel extremely final (ha-ha!!!) to me.
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Jul 6, 2023 04:31
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There's a note I remember from one of the late sidequests that mentions one of the secret societies was researching how to cast magic without a catalyst. Honestly there are a lot of threads they can pull for a sequel, up to and including just straight rear end pulls. My guess is one would lean into magic-proxy via the previous or even magitek.
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Jul 6, 2023 04:37
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I suspect we'll get a Cid-focused prequel that give a little bit more background between him and Benedikta, and what he did as the Lord Commander of Waloed. Otherwise maybe a side-quest thing after the Enterprise is built for a Leviathan-built mission, where you eventually get Leviathan's powers. I don't think we'll get anything that happens after the credits.
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Jul 6, 2023 04:49
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So Barnabus could’ve easily conquered Storm if not for lack of motivation and wanting to keep the other dominants alive for Clive to succ right?
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Jul 6, 2023 05:10
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Also Valisthea is fuckin wrecked by the end of the game. Most nations are nearly obliterated if not actually so. poo poo's bordering on anarchy. Rosaria: Doesn't really have a ducal lineage anymore and more importantly its parent state stops existing. The capital was sacked too. I guess Byron can lay claim to the throne. Sanbreque: The entire royal family is dead, and its capital got blown up by Origin. There's one noble in Northreach trying his best to reform something of a government. Iron Kingdom: I guess losing their pope defanged that civilization. They got written out of the story. Crystalline Dominion: Gone with Sanbreque. Waloed: Destroyed itself submitting to Ultima. Ash is just a big empty ruin. Dhalmekia: Ok this one might still be a nation. Its capital survived invasion and it seems to have most if not all of its leaders.
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Jul 6, 2023 05:18
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I'm ready for an isekai about an unrealistically knowledgeable earther coming to Valisthea to teach them how you make this "electricity" without crystals, and uniting all the nations by winning everyone over with soy sauce and pizzas
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Jul 6, 2023 05:27
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How does Cup Noodle fit into this new world order?
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Jul 6, 2023 07:02
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The Iron Kingdom was a backward totalitarian theocracy who everyone else on the continent hated that lost their pope, their god (Drake's Fang), and a significant amount of their military simultaneously. Lore entries indicate that they just loving disintegrated, because there was pretty much nothing holding them together any more.
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Jul 6, 2023 07:04
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finished the game a few days ago. really really good! some minor issues like crafting materials being useless for 99% of the time until I needed to buy 10 of an item to upgrade my sword, and accessories overall being pretty boring. my ng+/FF will probably just have the exp/ap/berserk ring on unless there are any accessories with more exciting effects than plus dmg/lower CD. some questions for you loremasters out there: -were the ifrits in the nexus ultima's attempts at mythos? I had the brief thought that they... might have been what ultima/ultima's people(?) looked like before they cast off their flesh, but also... -did ultima even have any other kin? or was it just him and he split himself into pieces, since he tells clive that the mothercrystals were "his brethren" but, (not to be racist) they all looked the same so lol lmao. also pretty funny that Joshua traps one ultima inside him when there's another just loving about anyway. Zeruel fucked around with this message at 14:42 on Jul 6, 2023 |
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Jul 6, 2023 14:17
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My interpretation of Ifrit Arisen is that somehow, Ultima knew what the form of his perfect vessel would take, and he experimented with making it before he put himself to sleep and waited for it to happen naturally. And as a final gently caress you to Ultima, Clive says as he's destroying Origin that the vessel STILL isn't enough to survive what Ultima wanted to do with it.
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Jul 6, 2023 14:27
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I think Ultima is kind of a bad antagonist, and I absolutely hate his entire look. However, the idea of "The God Who Sucks and is Always Entirely Wrong About Everything" is a very funny concept for a villain.
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Jul 6, 2023 15:02
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doos posted:I think Ultima is kind of a bad antagonist, and I absolutely hate his entire look. However, the idea of "The God Who Sucks and is Always Entirely Wrong About Everything" is a very funny concept for a villain. Dude is just the magical version of a rich rear end in a top hat who got rich through no effort of his own and is convinced that means he is a genius
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Jul 6, 2023 15:08
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doos posted:I think Ultima is kind of a bad antagonist, and I absolutely hate his entire look. However, the idea of "The God Who Sucks and is Always Entirely Wrong About Everything" is a very funny concept for a villain. I think when you put it like that, that makes him a great villain, actually. also I'm glad his pretty boy ification was only a power up and he went back to looking grody at the end
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Jul 6, 2023 15:10
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doos posted:I think Ultima is kind of a bad antagonist, and I absolutely hate his entire look. However, the idea of "The God Who Sucks and is Always Entirely Wrong About Everything" is a very funny concept for a villain. they already went there with Bhunivelze
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Jul 6, 2023 15:22
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Finished the game yesterday, and I really liked Ultima as a final boss. The final confrontation, where he explains his whole deal and Clive just calls him an rear end in a top hat and a hypocrite, really worked for me. Love that it wasn't another Lavos/Jenova situation, they're literally just like humans and did the same poo poo, but they gave up and decided to cling to their old way of life forever, at the expense of this new life they created. Also loved how he started putting emotion into his voice when he was getting his poo poo rocked in the final battle. An old trope, but it's always very satisfying.
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Jul 6, 2023 16:41
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I'm guessing Ultima was inspired by the philosophical concept of the Demiurge (well, several of its many interpretations), since he's a creator who deems himself A god, but is clearly not THE god who created everything. And while you can consider him evil or selfish at points, at the end it's clear he was both misguided and quite flawed. A plan a long time in the making, but you couldn't give it the attention it needed and also it didn't meet the specifications at the end? Bro, you sucked at this gig. Why did the others of your kind even make you the overseer? You should have been a crystal!
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Jul 6, 2023 17:57
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Rather than clutter up the gameplay thread with more spoiler marks, I'll just say here- Joshua is a really good character all throughout the game. When he finally joins up with Clive, their dynamic becomes very reminiscent of Fullmetal Alchemist. It's very heartfelt. 
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Jul 7, 2023 09:57
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Mierenneuker posted:I'm guessing Ultima was inspired by the philosophical concept of the Demiurge (well, several of its many interpretations), since he's a creator who deems himself A god, but is clearly not THE god who created everything. And while you can consider him evil or selfish at points, at the end it's clear he was both misguided and quite flawed. A plan a long time in the making, but you couldn't give it the attention it needed and also it didn't meet the specifications at the end? Bro, you sucked at this gig. Why did the others of your kind even make you the overseer? You should have been a crystal! Given that they all look and act exactly the same, I'm not sure any of them would have done anything different.
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Jul 7, 2023 10:12
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doos posted:I think Ultima is kind of a bad antagonist, and I absolutely hate his entire look. However, the idea of "The God Who Sucks and is Always Entirely Wrong About Everything" is a very funny concept for a villain. He's just a massive fuckup that is scared lol.
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Jul 7, 2023 10:26
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Huh, I just learnt that the bard in Northreach is a member of the Undying and once you get their badge he'll tell you that he's been investigating the big crystalline wave across the bay from Oriflamme. Apparently everyone else who's been investigating it has been found dead or missing.
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Jul 7, 2023 10:59
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Mierenneuker posted:I'm guessing Ultima was inspired by the philosophical concept of the Demiurge (well, several of its many interpretations), since he's a creator who deems himself A god, but is clearly not THE god who created everything. And while you can consider him evil or selfish at points, at the end it's clear he was both misguided and quite flawed. A plan a long time in the making, but you couldn't give it the attention it needed and also it didn't meet the specifications at the end? Bro, you sucked at this gig. Why did the others of your kind even make you the overseer? You should have been a crystal! When he transforms into Ultimalius, the Sephirot forms in the air, which I thought was a very clear Occult Bullshit signifier and made me think of gnostic stuff (it's actually a thing from Jewish mysticism originally but it got yoinked). Definitely agree that he gives big big Demiurge vibes. Ultimately the narrative is one of gnostic rebellion against a false god who is incapable of transcendent acts, as a proxy for its commentary on a rejection of tyranny even at the cost of anarchy. Pretty cool!
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Jul 7, 2023 12:42
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Was he fleeing the blight or just unaware that his own actions was causing it?
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Jul 7, 2023 12:47
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He was aware that his own actions caused it he just could not conceive of changing his lifestyle and thus declared it inevitable. Kinda like oil companies knowing about climate change before everyone else did, and hiding it. They'd rather destroy the world again than accept any kind of personal sacrifice.
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Jul 7, 2023 13:36
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Ultima spells out his scheme in the Interdimensional Rift:Ultima posted:If you are to comprehend the full extent of your transgressions, we must go back. To the beginning. When the world was still young, we visited upon it a miracle -- magic. And in its light did all life flourish. Yet the price for this boon would prove heavy. A pall descended upon the land, painting it as black as night. Though we labored to forestall its spread, in this one endeavor we proved powerless. And so we fled, that we might endure. Endure, that we might discover a means of salvation. Joshua posted:He would condemn us for this? Surely he cannot be so blind to his own hypocrisy.
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Jul 7, 2023 14:07
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on the subject of voice acting, one of my favorite line reads is dion’s sincerely inquisitive “do I address a ghost?” when he meets joshua you can tell he’s thinking “I might as loving well be, the day I’ve had”
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Jul 7, 2023 15:59
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Oxxidation posted:on the subject of voice acting, one of my favorite line reads is dion’s sincerely inquisitive “do I address a ghost?” when he meets joshua I figure if you turn into a giant laser breathing dragon you probably are a bit more open to the idea of absurd poo poo.
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Jul 7, 2023 16:03
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I have a silly theory: the people in the epilogue are direct descendants of Edda, because she's named after a book of myths.
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Jul 7, 2023 20:31
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SettingSun posted:Also Valisthea is fuckin wrecked by the end of the game. Most nations are nearly obliterated if not actually so. poo poo's bordering on anarchy. In fairness this is better shape than the world of FF13 was in post FF13. And not a lot worse than Spira post FFX. Or FF7's world post FF7. If anything the complete slate wipe creates opportunities. A more open ended game about rebuilding a better world like FFX-2 would be kinda great.
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Jul 7, 2023 20:42
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FF6 and 15's worlds both get wildly hosed up before their endings, too
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Jul 7, 2023 20:47
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Spermando posted:I have a silly theory: the people in the epilogue are direct descendants of Edda, because she's named after a book of myths. There's no way she's not named after a certain character from XIV.
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Jul 7, 2023 20:47
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So like the one thing I’m really not sure of is what exactly Clive is. What was the trigger for this one dude getting Ifrit powers? Has the Rosfield family been some big Bene Gesserit style breeding program run by Ultima?
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Jul 7, 2023 22:35
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Ethiser posted:So like the one thing I’m really not sure of is what exactly Clive is. What was the trigger for this one dude getting Ifrit powers? Has the Rosfield family been some big Bene Gesserit style breeding program run by Ultima? It's not 100% explained but we already know that people have a natural resistance to Aether based on their bloodlines and that Dominants in particular are shown to have higher than average amounts. Clive is, for whatever reason, a lucky mutation who has that ramped up to 11. There isn't anything super special about him except that he has an absurdly high resistance to aether, enough that he could sustain multiple Dominant powers with seemingly no ill effect. Eikon powers are basically transmitted by bloodline and can happen at any time. Ifrit and Phoenix are technically part of the same Eikon but for some reason only Phoenix manifests normally. Clive just happened to have the right combination of genetic factors that he gained Ifrit, not Phoenix, though as far as everyone else was concerned he just got bupkis. All the Eikons are part of Ultima's power and Ifrit in particular was his last attempt to create a body that could house his power, so what it sounds like is that Ifrit was keyed only to manifest in someone with the potential to become Mythos. Edit: And it's worth noting that Clive wasn't actually a super chosen one. He had an abnormally high resistance to aether and the ability to manipulate magic with less ill effects than usual but he wasn't immune. It all eventually caught up with him in the end. He was just a regular dude who happened to have a particularly convenient mutation. Ultima thought he was but Ultima was a self-absorbed dumbass and turned out to be wrong in the end. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 22:56 on Jul 7, 2023 |
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Jul 7, 2023 22:43
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Ethiser posted:So like the one thing I’m really not sure of is what exactly Clive is. What was the trigger for this one dude getting Ifrit powers? Has the Rosfield family been some big Bene Gesserit style breeding program run by Ultima? It's never explicit, but I believe the idea is that the Phoenix bloodline was special in that it was always only half the powers of the dominant of fire. It's the most powerful one, so it was split into two, and one of them was surpressed for all of history, until Ultima decided to put his plan into motion. He activated the other part of it with Clive, and then continued to manipulate events so that Clive could become his perfect vessel. We see that mural that has the image of Ifrit and Phoenix combined as the one true eikon above all others, so it was always part of the plan to put them together like that. Phoenix carried the power of life, which was obviously key to the whole plan, and Ifrit had the power to Megaman all the other eikons. Combine them and you get what you need to cast the super-raise spell on the entire Fallen species!
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Jul 7, 2023 23:16
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I don't know if this was discussed but I don't think Joshua was real, at least in the sense that he wasn't the child version who actually died at Phoenix Gate. It's explicitly called out during the Ultima fight when he tries that hallucination thing on Clive with all the dominants and stuff. (Clip starts at the relevant lines) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=diUFVWLap7o&t=1090s "And the Phoenix... His trespass should not have been possible. Not possible unless... Unless... he has been with Mythos all along. The mark of the Phoenix emblazoned upon his heart... made manifest by the power of will alone." I think he was literally put into existence by Clive since he had already gotten the power as a child. So when Clive died, Joshua would have also died any way. triple sulk fucked around with this message at 23:26 on Jul 7, 2023 |
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Jul 7, 2023 23:23
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triple sulk posted:I don't know if this was discussed but I don't think Joshua was real, at least in the sense that he wasn't the child version who actually died at Phoenix Gate. It's explicitly called out during the Ultima fight when he tries that hallucination thing on Clive with all the dominants and stuff. No, he is referring to the Blessing that Clive got. Clive already had part of the power of thr Phoenix so he was already linked to Joshua Joshua was saved by the Undying
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Jul 7, 2023 23:27
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Yeah Clive was already shown to hold some power of the Phoenix way back when he was able to open the Apodytery, something only the Phoenix dominant should be able to do.
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Jul 7, 2023 23:49
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Also hey what's the deal with Clive stealing the powers of other Dominants? They can still prime (at great risk to themselves), and they appear to still be able to cast spells. So what exactly is he taking?
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Jul 8, 2023 00:57
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It’s like copying a file, I guess.
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Jul 8, 2023 00:59
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They need time to recover before they can do it again, so probably just like all the energy they currently have stored up?
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Jul 8, 2023 00:59
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