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VitalSigns posted:I'm sure you can find some rich guys who are anti-cop or who love Cuba or whatever, a few exceptions doesn't prove anything. It's patently obvious whose side the rich are on. It's well-documented that policy in America follows the preferences of the rich, and American policy aint anti-cop lol. A bit of a distinction: I didn't say all rich people are DSA types, but DSA types has an unusual amount of wealthier folks than you would expect. It's a bit nuancy to talk about this, because it's not merely rich/poor... the GOP is turning more into the working class party while the Democratic party (both centrist and more progressive wings) are more the upper middle class PMC types. And this is an indictment of both liberals AND left that they just don't understand the working class, whether you're talking about the white working class or, increasingly, the POC working class. Anyway, leftists are a) far more educated and b) far more white so they're going to be better off, materially speaking, on average than you would expect. I remember when the stereotype used to be that rich ceo's used to be conservatives while their kids turned into liberals, now a lot of the younger CEO's are liberals while their kids turned into radicals. Maybe when those kids grow older, they'll go back to wanting to protect capital, but this is what i'm seeing. Edit: also there's a difference between saying you want your wealth redistributed and how you feel when you actually have your wealth redistributed, i wouldn't be surprised if this is just because these people are young and want to be part of the in group by sharing 'luxury beliefs' that's popular within their social circles, or wanting to be part of something bigger than themselves. Again, more nuancy than speaking in absolutes by saying rich people do x whie poor people do y. Mister Fister fucked around with this message at 20:32 on Jul 4, 2023 |
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Jul 4, 2023 20:24
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Fork of Unknown Origins posted:Again, this is advice for individuals. If everyone did it it wouldn’t work that way.
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Jul 4, 2023 20:43
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It was thoughtful of the Supreme Court to cite renowned constitutional law scholar uhhhh Nancy Pelosi?
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Jul 4, 2023 21:15
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Mister Fister posted:Say you're right, the demand isn't going to go up so much that you get crippling debt like 4 year colleges do. In the public vocational school example i showed you, you can become a plumber or auto mechanic just going that route, it's completely free, it's just kids don't want to go to these vocational schools, so that school has vastly lower enrollment than my high school did. The amount of and complexity of the instruction is vastly lower, than say, doing computer science, i don't think you can turn kids into software engineers via high school like you can trades. There's nothing inherent about trades that would make it expensive unless the government started doing stupid crap like guaranteeing loans again, and even still, you're not going to see it cost anywhere near as much as college.
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Jul 4, 2023 22:52
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Sub Par posted:It seems to me that we could include certain requirements that are tailored to the major that would provide some "rounding" without going the full on 120 credit hours study a bit of everything approach. In the engineering example, there could be like one course requirement that's like "communication for engineers" that focuses on the specific challenges inherent in communicating complex math/systems ideas to non-experts (both written and speaking) in lieu of like English 101 and Speech 101. Similarly, there could be "Math for the Social Sciences" that touches on some basics like algebra and whatnot but gives an overview of basic statistics and regression. Math for Artists that includes geometry and perspective. quote:I think having a well-educated citizenry is super important and having people learn about history, literature, art, math, science, and biology is great and all things being equal is my preferred solution. But I just don't know if that really works. quote:Maybe there's a distinction where you can get like a BA/BS in a subject that's 2 years and just basically all the major-required courses quote:and another option that's a 4-year BA/BS with some other name that indicates you did your studies and also got the "well rounded" college experience. Or something.
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Jul 4, 2023 23:23
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Mister Fister posted:A bit of a distinction: I didn't say all rich people are DSA types, but DSA types has an unusual amount of wealthier folks than you would expect. It's a bit nuancy to talk about this, because it's not merely rich/poor... the GOP is turning more into the working class party while the Democratic party (both centrist and more progressive wings) are more the upper middle class PMC types. And this is an indictment of both liberals AND left that they just don't understand the working class, whether you're talking about the white working class or, increasingly, the POC working class. Anyway, leftists are a) far more educated and b) far more white so they're going to be better off, materially speaking, on average than you would expect. I remember when the stereotype used to be that rich ceo's used to be conservatives while their kids turned into liberals, now a lot of the younger CEO's are liberals while their kids turned into radicals. Maybe when those kids grow older, they'll go back to wanting to protect capital, but this is what i'm seeing. I agree that the Democrats are bleeding working class support but that is evidence for my position, not yours. The Democrats have become more aligned with the economic interests of the rich, ie more right wing, so there's less and less material reasons for the working class to vote for them. What you're saying doesn't make a lot of sense to me. CEOs are economically left-wing because they say progressive stuff (supposedly, according to you, although I don't see many CEOs advocating for Medicare for All or 50% worker control of corporate boards), but those policies don't happen because CEOs oppose redistribution in practice? Well if they don't actually want economically left policies, they aren't economically left wing then are they. VitalSigns fucked around with this message at 23:49 on Jul 4, 2023 |
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Jul 4, 2023 23:32
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Oracle posted:These classes are important for a functioning citizenry who are expected to make informed choices in their leadership, such as those living in a democracy. Its not just a 'nice to have but it wastes time and money that could be better spent making another million for shareholders.' You don't know what a swastika is you might think that guy running for office calling himself a National Socialist and promising all that free health care has some good ideas. You might listen to some anti-vaxxer telling you about how dangerous they are and cause autism. You might think statements like 'kids can't catch covid' sounds perfectly reasonable and is a valid justification for sending them back into schools with poor ventilation. If you've never heard of a Potemkin village you're going to clueless when someone makes reference to one in a political debate. Someone promises you their 7/7/7 plan will cut your taxes while raising money and you're not familiar with how percentages work you're going to think that idea has merit and sounds good. And on and on and on. This. A million goddamn times this. Higher education is not job training. Its primary role is not to land you a career, that everyone's been sold on the lie that it is results from decades of capital doing one of the things it does best ie: transferring private businesses' costs onto someone else's shoulders, in this case employee training. Will getting a degree help? Sure, but that's not what it's there for. The point it to become more capable of being a fully realized person and citizen who can engage critically with your society and government, not to be a better-equipped drone who believed the boss when he tells you you're not allowed to discuss compensation packages with your coworkers or that overtime doesn't apply to your position.
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Jul 5, 2023 00:05
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If biden is re elected in 2024 and maintains control of the senate it seems that Sotomayor must resign in case we do not see the same happen again for some time.
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Jul 5, 2023 00:19
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Sub Par posted:It seems to me that we could include certain requirements that are tailored to the major that would provide some "rounding" without going the full on 120 credit hours study a bit of everything approach. In the engineering example, there could be like one course requirement that's like "communication for engineers" that focuses on the specific challenges inherent in communicating complex math/systems ideas to non-experts (both written and speaking) in lieu of like English 101 and Speech 101. Similarly, there could be "Math for the Social Sciences" that touches on some basics like algebra and whatnot but gives an overview of basic statistics and regression. Math for Artists that includes geometry and perspective. Should we start ripping reading and art out of high school so we can squeeze in more job training time? The problem isn't that people are getting a well-rounded education they may not want. It's that they're being charged enormous amounts of money for this education and being told that it's justified by the monetary returns it will bring. General education, which may provide general benefits to society but doesn't provide an easily quantifiable return on investment to them personally, isn't covered by that justification and therefore feels unjustified.
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Jul 5, 2023 00:24
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WTF https://twitter.com/ElectionWiz/status/1676303126322638852
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Jul 5, 2023 00:42
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Twitter doesn't work. Please provide more context than "WTF."
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Jul 5, 2023 00:46
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Dipshit. quote:In 2021, Doughty issued a nationwide injunction against a federal mandate that health care workers be vaccinated against COVID-19.[14] His opinion includes many false and misleading claims about COVID-19 vaccines, including an incorrect suggestion that vaccines are not useful because booster shots are recommended after six months, a misleading statement that vaccines "do not prevent transmission of the disease", and the falsehood that "the virus has achieved an immune escape from COVID-19 vaccines". Doughty's opinion uncritically cited the views of a doctor known for making false claims about the vaccine.[15][16] Stabbey_the_Clown posted:Twitter doesn't work. Please provide more context than "WTF." @ElectionWiz on Twitter posted:BREAKING: Federal Judge Terry Doughty releases opinion in Missouri v. Biden on July 4th, finding the government likely violated the First Amendment by conspiring with Big Tech in a "far-reaching and widespread censorship campaign." https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.lawd.189520/gov.uscourts.lawd.189520.293.0.pdf
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Jul 5, 2023 00:47
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Main Paineframe posted:Should we start ripping reading and art out of high school so we can squeeze in more job training time? Yeah that's the thing, you can't really say people "don't want" a well-rounded education when it costs $200,000. If it's free you might find people want it, they just don't want to go into debt for life to get it. My non-engineering humanities classes didn't feel like a waste of time, but if you'd offered to let me skip them and graduate in three years I would've jumped at the chance, not because I think a liberal arts education is worthless, but because the debt clock was going up every semester. In a world with free education I would have declined an offer to skip them and would probably have taken even more electives. I would have loved to minor in philosophy or history but I didn't have any parental money helping me so I had to finish as soon as possible. If school is just supposed to be job training why even have high school, teach kids how to calculate sales tax or swing a hammer or weld a joint and put them to work, right? No need for any of that literature or history or music or art or sports. Except for the children of those wealthy enough to send them to a private school with intellectual pursuits of course. VitalSigns fucked around with this message at 00:56 on Jul 5, 2023 |
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Jul 5, 2023 00:54
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VitalSigns posted:If the DSA skew more affluent than average (I've never been to a DSA meeting), I'm not sure what that proves. It's not surprising that middle class people have more time and money to do organizing, and left-wing working people have their own organizations (unions). That doesn't mean that the wealthy are more economically left wing or erase the Democratic establishment (who doesn't give the DSA's left liberal policies the time of day) move to the right on NAFTA, healthcare, education, etc. The DSA is a small organization, its demographics say much about the DSA but not that much about the left. Look at it logically, the wealthy control policy in this country, if the wealthy are economically left-wing now we'd have left-wing economic policy. Do we? No. I didn't say CEO's are economically leftwing, often their children are, due to socialization, in-group/out-group dynamics, institutional control by the left (see: education) etc. How does Democrats bleeding working class support towards the Republicans support your claim? A lot of reasons for the shift is because of social issues, working class folks are quite a bit more socially conservative. Hell, the black working class, basically the centrists of the democratic party, could be described this way. Leftists often make assumptions about working class folks that are just plain wrong. Forget about the democratic party for a second, If working class people wanted economically left policies, you'd see more working class whites/POC's/Immigrants organize on the left, but they don't, it's mostly college educated whitesj, how is that not a failure by the left to recruit them and attack the democratic party from the inside/adjacent?
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Jul 5, 2023 00:56
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Stabbey_the_Clown posted:Twitter doesn't work. Please provide more context than "WTF." Ah, okay. I will quote tweets from now on. Though, Lemniscate Blue has already done that for this one.
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Jul 5, 2023 01:00
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Mister Fister posted:I didn't say CEO's are economically leftwing, often their children are, due to socialization, in-group/out-group dynamics, institutional control by the left (see: education) etc. How does Democrats bleeding working class support towards the Republicans support your claim? A lot of reasons for the shift is because of social issues, working class folks are quite a bit more socially conservative. Hell, the black working class, basically the centrists of the democratic party, could be described this way. Leftists often make assumptions about working class folks that are just plain wrong. Forget about the democratic party for a second, If working class people wanted economically left policies, you'd see more working class whites/POC's/Immigrants organize on the left, but they don't, it's mostly college educated whitesj, how is that not a failure by the left to recruit them and attack the democratic party from the inside/adjacent? I don't think the children of CEOs are left-wing as a class. You can find a few notable examples of ones that are, but those are notable precisely because they are unusual. Watch the Harvard Town Hall from 2019, that's more representative of the children of the upper class imo, and those trust-fund kiddos haaaaate Bernie lol. As far as why popular left-wing ideas aren't implemented, that's because we don't live in a democracy, we live in a plutocracy. We don't vote for policy, if we did NAFTA would go down in flames and we'd have a federal jobs guarantee and a public healthcare system. We choose which representative of the 1% will lead us and neither of them are going to do any of that. I absolutely agree that there's plenty to criticize on the left, but that doesn't make the wealthy left-wing or mean that class is no longer about money or power anymore, just education. Working class folks are more socially conservative, which is exactly why Democrats started bleeding working class support to the Republicans when Carter and Clinton and the New Democrats abandoned the working class economically and started pandering to socially liberal fiscally conservative richies, while the Republicans at least appeal to more conservative members of the working class. Also note though that Trump flanked his Republican opponents (and Hillary) from the left on Social Security, Medicare, healthcare, and neocon wars. He was lying about that of course, but there's a reason he did that. He also failed to do that in 2020 and let Biden stake out the more economic left position (in rhetoric anyway, of course Biden was lying too), which was a fatal mistake imo. VitalSigns fucked around with this message at 01:15 on Jul 5, 2023 |
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Jul 5, 2023 01:12
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Oracle posted:'Math for Poets' classes have been around for at least 25 years (at least in Big Ten schools). And its kind of insulting that you think one course requirement is going to magically make people who are functionally innumerate/illiterate into capable writers/communicators or proficient in geometry or perspective (why do we need perspective?) or algebra or calculating interest or what have you. Math for Artists was an example, I am not an educator and don't develop curriculum which seems obvious from my post. My wife studied art in college and she took an actual class called "Math for Artists" in which angles and perspective were some of the things studied. I don't get why that is confusing. It was helpful for her. quote:These classes are important for a functioning citizenry who are expected to make informed choices in their leadership, such as those living in a democracy. Its not just a 'nice to have but it wastes time and money that could be better spent making another million for shareholders.' You don't know what a swastika is you might think that guy running for office calling himself a National Socialist and promising all that free health care has some good ideas. You might listen to some anti-vaxxer telling you about how dangerous they are and cause autism. You might think statements like 'kids can't catch covid' sounds perfectly reasonable and is a valid justification for sending them back into schools with poor ventilation. If you've never heard of a Potemkin village you're going to clueless when someone makes reference to one in a political debate. Someone promises you their 7/7/7 plan will cut your taxes while raising money and you're not familiar with how percentages work you're going to think that idea has merit and sounds good. And on and on and on. quote:Its called an Associates Degree Not really, an associate's degree mostly develops the broad based skills that are treated at 4 year universities as "core requirements" and does not focus on developing a specialty. There are not advanced classes in any field offered at community colleges. My idea was to basically flip the two, so that what we currently think of as community college actually provides 2 years of in-depth training in a field while the longer degree is that plus the "well-rounded" stuff. Basically, trade schools majors. I'm not saying this is the best idea or the one I would dream up or advocate for. Main Paineframe posted:Should we start ripping reading and art out of high school so we can squeeze in more job training time? I agree 100% but it doesn't seem like solutions on this front are forthcoming. I was responding to a specific criticism of speciality-focused education and tossing out an idea. Sub Par fucked around with this message at 03:11 on Jul 5, 2023 |
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Jul 5, 2023 03:08
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Sub Par posted:This seems needlessly hostile for a reply to a post that was basically tossing out an idea. You're getting a lot of other arguments, but I'm going to give you the simplest one: A university is so called because it offers a universal education. If that isn't what you want, don't enroll. If you enroll, don't complain that you're getting all of the subjects. It's literally right there in the name. AtraMorS fucked around with this message at 03:17 on Jul 5, 2023 |
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Jul 5, 2023 03:13
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AtraMorS posted:The idea itself is hostile to a university education. I don't mean angry-hostile; I mean, it cuts at the entire idea of what a university is.
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Jul 5, 2023 03:26
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Sub Par posted:I am in favor of everyone getting a university education. We aren't discussing how to make University education more accessible however, we were comparing that system to another one across one specific degree of difference: the ability of the system to generate engineers with communication skills (or, it's implied, humanities scholars with some math ability). I'm talking about whether the idea of universal university education actually works according to the goalposts provided by the OP, not what it's definition is or what the merits of it are. A better approach might be to start from the premise of building out a vocational program instead of stripping away from a universal one. Get halfway between by building up instead of cutting away. It'd be more honest too, because in the end you still want it to be job training, and that's just not what universities are supposed to do. The focused study you want can't just be flipped; they depend on the core courses at the bottom.
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Jul 5, 2023 04:03
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College has always been a cultural signal that the graduate is acceptable to the upper, or at least upper middle class. America has been democratic.. if not not meritocratic in accepting class climbers, as long as they were socially acceptable. Public schools are testament to that. It should also be no surprise then that when those schools were integrated, the diploma was not longer that same cultural signal because people who would never be accepted into that class could receive them. …and then at the same time public dollars for public schools dried up.
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Jul 5, 2023 04:42
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AtraMorS posted:A better approach might be to start from the premise of building out a vocational program instead of stripping away from a universal one. Get halfway between by building up instead of cutting away. It'd be more honest too, because in the end you still want it to be job training, and that's just not what universities are supposed to do. The focused study you want can't just be flipped; they depend on the core courses at the bottom. I mean maybe I'm just not explaining what I'm talking about well, so my fault, but what I'm talking about is exactly building out a vocational program. If it helps to think of it as "start with vocational training and then add in enough universal education/liberal arts stuff to satisfy reasonable needs for the workforce" rather than "provide a university-lite option" then fine, think of it that way. The end result is the same: ~2 years of education focused on a specific type of vocation plus a few courses needed to round that education out in terms of writing/communication (or math, or whatever is "missing" from the core curriculum for a given vocation). And I don't see the problem with flipping the focused study. "They depend on the core courses at the bottom" doesn't ring true to me. I did not use anything from biology 101, geology 101, music appreciation, etc. in my Econ 4XX classes. Obviously within a given course of study there will still need to be a progression. For example, since you need calculus as an engineer, you'd still need to take the variety of math courses that prepare you for calculus. And anyway, in modern universities, the core curriculum already isn't required to be completed before enrolling in advanced major-specific courses. You don't have to take Speech 101 before you take Chemistry 300 or whatever. Anyway, I think I've explained the idea enough, if folks think it's a bad one, cool. I'm not in charge of schools and do not want to be.
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Jul 5, 2023 21:37
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Or maybe as society advances, more and more people should be given a universal education instead of looking down on manual labor and paternalistically writing them off as unable to understand biology or philosophy or whatever. The person who fixes your pipes is a human being with the same brain as anyone else, what's behind the assumption that art or literature or science is only for those born with a trust fund. A hundred years ago most kids left school after 3rd grade or something, did we say "well that's good enough for most people then, no need to teach the masses any more than that" when the resources became available for everyone to go to high school. A couple hundred years before that most people weren't taught to read, they have priests to read the Bible for them and tell them what's in it don't they. E: at the very least for public health reasons if nothing else. We live in a complex interconnected society where a disease from a Chinese provincial capital can spread to every continent and kill millions of people, and we're having a problem right now of a shocking number of people uneducated enough in science that they can't tell the difference vaccine studies published by medical doctors and claims about magical cures with essential oil or livestock dewormers from guys on YouTube VitalSigns fucked around with this message at 22:36 on Jul 5, 2023 |
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Jul 5, 2023 22:25
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Sub Par posted:And I don't see the problem with flipping the focused study. "They depend on the core courses at the bottom" doesn't ring true to me. I did not use anything from biology 101, geology 101, music appreciation, etc. in my Econ 4XX classes. Obviously within a given course of study there will still need to be a progression. For example, since you need calculus as an engineer, you'd still need to take the variety of math courses that prepare you for calculus. And anyway, in modern universities, the core curriculum already isn't required to be completed before enrolling in advanced major-specific courses. You don't have to take Speech 101 before you take Chemistry 300 or whatever. I have been working on potential degree plans with one of my kids and at least some public universities have gotten away from that generic model already. Other than an Art related course and a PE course, all of the core requirements are either covered in high school or are 200-300 level offerings like 'the ethics of diversity in the Computer Science industry'. There are still 5 or 6 required courses that broaden out the scope of education, but most can still be relevant to the major.
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Jul 5, 2023 22:38
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reignonyourparade posted:I'l go ahead and straight up say it: giving a well rounded education to people who DON'T want it, they just want a job certificate, at the price they are asking, might not be THE problem but it is, in fact, A problem. Those well-rounded educations would make their off-degree jobs much, much more likely to be dead ends if they had effectively a high school education outside of their degree's focus. Your idea would make higher education in the US significantly worse because most people end up in jobs that are not directly tied to their major (or minor). Pook Good Mook posted:We are already at the point where most industrialized countries are rich enough that most people should never have to work. Without sufficiently advanced automation, the US could have 10,000x the wealth and we still wouldn't be in a position for most people to never need to work. There's no excuse for people to be going hungry, want for shelter, or lack (free) medical care other than the two parties that are run by people who don't want those things for people and work to ensure there's sufficient division to prevent a challenger from upending status quo while staying entrenched in power due to the FPTP election system we use.
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Jul 6, 2023 00:46
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Evil Fluffy posted:Without sufficiently advanced automation, the US could have 10,000x the wealth and we still wouldn't be in a position for most people to never need to work. There's no excuse for people to be going hungry, want for shelter, or lack (free) medical care other than the two parties that are run by people who don't want those things for people and work to ensure there's sufficient division to prevent a challenger from upending status quo while staying entrenched in power due to the FPTP election system we use. Education and automation make production more efficient, but they can't replace human ingenuity/time/effort. We don't really have a term for a trade certificate, even though an AA+cert is on the same level and should be treated and respected the same as a bachelor's is.
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Jul 6, 2023 01:08
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I just read all 237 pages of the SFFA case on a long flight and it really makes it clear how much it's all right wing fanfic, totally unengaged with the trial record or the original intent of the 14th Amendment or Title 6, just seeking for the preferred policy solution.
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Jul 6, 2023 02:20
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So, lost in the affirmative action and student loan decisions, was this ruling I found extremely weird. TLDR: A man was convicted of stalking and served 4.5 years for sending threatening messages to a local female singer in Colorado through facebook. She blocked him, but he would come back with new accounts, sending her messages that suggested he knew her whereabouts, one that said "Die, don't need you," etc. The SC overturned his conviction 7-2 citing that his free speech was abridged as the state did not prove he intended the messages to be threatening. Is there some legal thing I'm missing here since every account of the case I've read seems like speech that shouldn't be protected? Dissents were Amy Barrett and Clarence Thomas
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Jul 6, 2023 08:15
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Blind Pineapple posted:So, lost in the affirmative action and student loan decisions, was this ruling I found extremely weird. I summarized it here. Nobody thinks the dude’s actions should be legal; the majority is just saying the prosecutors have to go back and prove that he acted with at least reckless disregard for whether the singer would truly feel threatened. (It’s not that they failed to do this at trial, it’s that they didn’t try; that question was not put to the jury. I’m pretty sure they can just try him again in this situation.) I personally agree with the concurrence: the mens rea standard for criminalizing threatening speech should be higher than recklessness, but this dude’s actions should not be understood purely as speech. Repeatedly contacting someone after being requested to stop is harassment, and it ought to be punishable as such even if you’re very slowly reading them the collected works of John Locke.
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Jul 6, 2023 08:45
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SCOTUS: Complaining about Gen Ed requirements, apparently.
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Jul 6, 2023 11:47
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If it makes y'all feel any better, it's not just the American courts that stretch the meaning of standing to its breaking point in order to let bigots continue to discriminate against LGBT+ people. https://twitter.com/JolyonMaugham/status/1676891416713125890
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Jul 6, 2023 18:32
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rjmccall posted:
My counterpoint is that recklessness is enough. If someone isn't "insane" in the legal sense, but still "crazy" in the general public sense, they may truly not have the specific intent to cause alarm, intimidate, annoy, etc. It becomes a legit defense for a stalker to take the stand and say, "No, she loves me, she shook my hand after a book signing, we're meant for each other."
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Jul 6, 2023 19:57
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A stalker who genuinely believes that their target loves them wouldn’t have a reckless mens rea. You have to be acting in conscious disregard of the likely consequences of your actions, and they simply wouldn’t see the target feeling threatened as a likely consequence. That’s not how a reasonable person would see it, but “how would a reasonable person see this” is the so-called objective standard, not the subjective standard required by mens rea. Also, remember that this legal point is supposed to be about the standard for deciding whether an expressive act falls into the first amendment exception for a “true threat”. That is, if you say something threatening, can you be punished just because a reasonable person would see it as threatening, or does the prosecution have to prove that you intended it to be threatening, or knew that your target would find it threatening, or consciously didn’t care whether they’d find it threatening? But I would argue that anything that we would call “stalking” involves a pattern of behavior that cannot be understood just as expressive conduct and which can be criminalized regardless of the content of the speech.
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Jul 6, 2023 21:04
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TinTower posted:If it makes y'all feel any better, it's not just the American courts that stretch the meaning of standing to its breaking point in order to let bigots continue to discriminate against LGBT+ people. LGB Alliance is a TERF group so I hope they eat poo poo at every turn tbh.
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Jul 6, 2023 22:11
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Evil Fluffy posted:LGB Alliance is a TERF group so I hope they eat poo poo at every turn tbh. Agreed. But alas, the tribunal has interpreted standing in this case to be so narrow as to make decisions of the charity regulator effectively immune to judicial review. So the LGB Alliance can continue to do bigot poo poo under the cover of charitable purposes even though they probably would've lost the case if Mermaids did have standing.
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Jul 6, 2023 22:34
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VitalSigns posted:I don't think the children of CEOs are left-wing as a class. You can find a few notable examples of ones that are, but those are notable precisely because they are unusual. Watch the Harvard Town Hall from 2019, that's more representative of the children of the upper class imo, and those trust-fund kiddos haaaaate Bernie lol. Republicans are a bit more left on economic issues than the Republican party is, i think they won some minimum wage hikes on some ballot initiatives, but they're typically less left than democrats/;socialists (last poll i saw, they want a minimum wage of $11 vs. $15 that people on the left keep saying they want). Working class folks are often more socially conservative, and many (especially immigrants) can be surprisingly fiscally conservative (if i remember correctly, there was a poll that showed immigrants believed in the American dream more than natives did). In any case, i want to try a different tack, I remember when the DSA 2019 convention was posted on the internet and it got ROUNDLY ridiculed, some highlights: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NdE9CjkvTY&t=7s You basically have to have lived an incredibly privileged life in order to complain about people triggering your sensitivity to 'sensory overload' and 'using gendered words'. Try to imagine someone who is working class who has to listen to the sounds of gunshots several times a week in the ghetto, has food insecurity, and has children who aren't learning how to read in school caring about such frivolous nonsense. It's all about signalling and increasing social status. That is why you will often find young wealthy/upper middle class PMC types on the radical left, i mentioned a term, 'luxury beliefs', a few posts ago: https://www.robkhenderson.com/p/status-symbols-and-the-struggle-for That's basically what socialism has become for a lot of adherents.
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Jul 7, 2023 20:57
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You should make a thread about how the rich interact with the political sphere as a whole because it's very interesting and you are off to a good start . Socialism is not the DSA but that seems very off topic here. 
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Jul 8, 2023 03:00
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Mister Fister posted:Republicans are a bit more left on economic issues than the Republican party is, i think they won some minimum wage hikes on some ballot initiatives, but they're typically less left than democrats/;socialists (last poll i saw, they want a minimum wage of $11 vs. $15 that people on the left keep saying they want). quote:Over the past decade, voters in 12 states have passed minimum wage increases, including states as reliably Republican as South Dakota and Missouri. Six red states have also expanded Medicaid eligibility via ballot initiative after their Republican legislatures failed to do so under the new rules created by the Affordable Care Act. And since a nationwide movement to legalize marijuana began in the late 1990s, a whopping 36 states have either legalized or decriminalized medical marijuana, including by ballot initiative in conservative states like Utah and Oklahoma. Why? quote:Most of the time, though, it doesn’t matter that voters aren’t steeped in the details of ballot initiatives. In fact, it actually might be a good thing, as it means voters aren’t relying on partisanship heuristics and other clues to make their choices. Instead, the first time many voters learn about ballot initiatives is when they see them in the voting booth, and they make their decisions then.
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Jul 8, 2023 03:08
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That's a pretty one-sided accounting of ballot initiatives, which tend to be especially vulnerable to information campaigning and thus benefit the side that can spend the most money.
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Jul 8, 2023 03:12
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Discendo Vox posted:That's a pretty one-sided accounting of ballot initiatives, which tend to be especially vulnerable to information campaigning and thus benefit the side that can spend the most money. Right? I live in CA and every year I’m inundated with ads for propositions. Mailers, commercials, everything. I feel like I see them about as much as I see candidate ads, though most races in my area aren’t competitive so that could be why.
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Jul 8, 2023 03:29
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