(Thread IKs:
weg, Toxic Mental)
|
more mobilization won't help because the more they mobilize, the faster they burn through what little equipment and poo poo they have left (though putins poo poo is a renewable resource)
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2023 06:03
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 30, 2024 10:55 |
|
|
HonorableTB posted:more mobilization won't help because the more they mobilize, the faster they burn through what little equipment and poo poo they have left (though putins poo poo is a renewable resource) Not true. There is only so much horse cum left in their territories to be turned into poo poo.
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2023 06:07
|
|
|
HonorableTB posted:more mobilization won't help because the more they mobilize, the faster they burn through what little equipment and poo poo they have left (though putins poo poo is a renewable resource) That is true. And I think with China telling Putin that he is not allowed to fire off a nuclear missile they're thrusting their weight in terms of the "partnership", the reason I bring this up is if they did a mass mobilization they would have to get a new equipment and I think China has basically in the statement about the nuclear weapons so that there are limits to what this partnership is going to endure. And also China is throwing its weight around Russia which is kind of funny. But I think that this point they have no other cards to play to get the manpower situation handled. And if they were to they only can resort to mass mobilization or general mobilization or just straight abductions off the street. I mean Russia has enough mosins and 7.62x54 to fight indefinitely. The other big news is that Ukraine has more tanks fielded right now than Russia does at about 1500 when they're pre-war number was about 980. Pre-war Russia had about 3,400 "serviceable" tanks but also they're pulling relics out of the loving dustbins of History to keep this thing going so let's call those 1400 russian tanks closer to like 900. And I'll say these numbers are a little nebulous because I really don't know how many tanks they have served so I mean it could be far less than this 900 number but I'm giving them a percentage that I feel would be reasonable
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2023 06:08
|
|
|
HonorableTB posted:more mobilization won't help because the more they mobilize, the faster they burn through what little equipment and poo poo they have left (though putins poo poo is a renewable resource) I love how Russian tactics have more or less amounted to zerglings from starcraft. Like all their military doctrine is dependent on stupidly high numbers for everything and it just fails completely when there's no logistics due to corruption, greed, and outright hate. Not to mention the loss of so many lives for some of the dumbest poo poo. I'm even more amazed how so many intelligent officers were so wrong on the actual strength of the Russian military. Like completely and absolutely wrong on how actual dogshit it really is. Like people should be fired over this.
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2023 06:13
|
|
|
Buckwheat Sings posted:I love how Russian tactics have more or less amounted to zerglings from starcraft. Like all their military doctrine is dependent on stupidly high numbers for everything and it just fails completely when there's no logistics due to corruption, greed, and outright hate. Not to mention the loss of so many lives for some of the dumbest poo poo. This is actually a misconception of zerg builds. While there are famous zergling rushes, a lot of zerg builds can include some real high cost units. I used to be into the 7 Roach Rush!
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2023 06:20
|
|
|
WAR CRIME GIGOLO posted:Why would the Chinese border army be in Bakhmut in danger of encirclement if they had an alternative? we've spent a couple pages recently poring over the multi-layered defensive lines that russia has around the city and on the rest of the theater there. obviously you need more dudes than a 200-250k but ukraine is still working from a massive manpower disadvantage. you can be stretched thin but that doesn't necessarily mean much if your enemy is thinner. i think the primary way you rationalize it through is to remember that losing bakhmut would be crushing to russian morale, but a lot of the mobiks have the products of the lie farms in their heads and the blocking brigades just behind their heads. until and unless you get through that surrender probably means a hot and a cot rather than a slow tortured death or those blocking brigades desert, i'm not sure how much loss of coherence you're gonna see. maybe i'm wrong and the loss of bakhmut is what causes those blocking brigades to decide they have better things to do than keep their brothers in a stinking hole to slowly die to war attrition. i certainly hope so. but i think there's still a bit of a road ahead just because russia's long since escalated to what amounts to total war footing, and ukraine still has some time before they have the material to match that footing. the f-16s etc.
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2023 06:24
|
|
|
LRADIKAL posted:This is actually a misconception of zerg builds. While there are famous zergling rushes, a lot of zerg builds can include some real high cost units. I used to be into the 7 Roach Rush! Also roaches are cheap and are definitely used in a "throwaway" manner much of the time, especially once you get close to or at the supply cap.
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2023 06:26
|
|
|
Cicero posted:It's not that much of a misconception, Zerg styles really do tend to rely on mass numbers and even suicide units (scourges, banelings, arguably also locusts and broodlings). I haven't played in a long time! I do have a soft spot for those bug guys, though. They were less evil than Putin at least! Handsomer, too!
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2023 06:30
|
|
|
WAR CRIME GIGOLO posted:They are loving exhausted troops. They are starved, under hydrated probably diseased or sick as gently caress always. It isn't just a numbers game. And while an army of 200,000 may seem cool and all. These front lines were being occupied by 1,000,000 men 80 years ago. Imagine the same width of front but a 5th of the men. You get pretty stretched. And your ability to conduct combat operations becomes difficult without a proper force to do so. From what I understand the optical troop density in this kind of battle is a lot lower than it was in WW2 due to advances in mechanization and artillery among other things. But probably not by a factor of 5. But that's not the whole picture: they're not doing total war mobilization nor are there people facing an existential threat against genocidal invaders as the Soviets were, so there's both less to back them up and less motivation for the Russians to fight through the struggle.
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2023 06:31
|
|
|
Killer robot posted:From what I understand the optical troop density in this kind of battle is a lot lower than it was in WW2 due to advances in mechanization and artillery among other things. But probably not by a factor of 5. But that's not the whole picture: they're not doing total war mobilization nor are there people facing an existential threat against genocidal invaders as the Soviets were, so there's both less to back them up and less motivation for the Russians to fight through the struggle. personally i think it's reasonable to consider them on a total war footing even if they're not really at total war mobilization because of what honorable said earlier. if they did full mobilization they wouldn't even bother training throws with potatoes because they know drat well none of those poor chumps are gonna see a grenade on the front unless it's thrown by a ukranian.
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2023 06:38
|
|
|
Coolguye posted:i mean trying to hold a city that you ground down to rubble already is kind of a "because i can" thing in the first place, so lying to your erstwhile ally and getting them to hang out there jives with "because i can". i'm not convinced there's a well rooted strategic thought behind the defense of the city, let alone the particulars behind the defense of the city. I'm really not getting this. It almost sounds borderline like the nom Chomsky claim that Russia hasn't dedicated their actual army to this fight yet I mean I don't think you're understanding that the vdv is literally losing hundreds of men a day to defend bakhmut they cannot replace those guys. Those guys aren't going to be able to stop the next Nazi takeover attempt on Russia "Russia is doing a tactical suicide because they can", Fucks sakes man this is the weirdest accidental and inadvertantly tankie death cultism on steroids I've ever heard. I just think it's a weak theory, I'm not trying to go after you personally or anything. And as an acknowledgement my calling this "Chinese border troops" is the designation that Russia has for these units.
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2023 06:39
|
|
|
WAR CRIME GIGOLO posted:Okay so let me get this straight, your theory is that they're holding bakhmut instead of protecting the oil Rich caucuses or the Chinese border is because they can? no no, i think they are holding bakhmut because of the symbolic and morale value in the city they took, and because it strengthens the overall argument internationally that the counteroffensive is failing. i also don't think that's a well rooted strategic thought, so it amounts to "because i can." i get what you're saying in terms of irreplaceable losses on the actual regular army portions. i completely agree with that. i also don't think that russian brass will acknowledge or care about that because we've seen the proof of that apathy in action quite recently with the wagner revolt. it was literally one of chef boyar p's big complaints that his boys were being hung out to dry and nobody was listening when he complained. i think their view is that those soldiers are there to fight and, if necessary, die. i also think they're gonna make it necessary even if in any sane or competent leadership environment, it wouldn't be.
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2023 06:46
|
|
|
Coolguye posted:no no, i think they are holding bakhmut because of the symbolic and morale value in the city they took, and because it strengthens the overall argument internationally that the counteroffensive is failing. I agree with that of course. I just know tactically, the city is won on the flanks. Those flanks are currently in danger and the VDV could be encircled. Which would be an absolutely shattering moment for Russia. Losing them or a mass surrender would be another Moskva sinking in terms of tactical defeats.
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2023 06:49
|
|
|
WAR CRIME GIGOLO posted:I agree with that of course. I just know tactically, the city is won on the flanks. Those flanks are currently in danger and the VDV could be encircled. Which would be an absolutely shattering moment for Russia. Losing them or a mass surrender would be another Moskva sinking in terms of tactical defeats. i guess maybe where we're talking past each other is what the word "shattering" means here? like i'm interpreting by that you mean that russia will be forced to the negotiating table and this bullshit war will actually have an end in sight. i don't think that's the case, i think it's gonna keep going after that and a bunch more people are gonna die for no good reason. but maybe that isn't what you meant. also sorry for fake editing out from under you lel
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2023 06:53
|
|
|
Coolguye posted:i guess maybe where we're talking past each other is what the word "shattering" means here? like i'm interpreting by that you mean that russia will be forced to the negotiating table and this bullshit war will actually have an end in sight. i don't think that's the case, i think it's gonna keep going after that and a bunch more people are gonna die for no good reason. but maybe that isn't what you meant. I don't think losing bakhmut will push Russia to the table juuuust yet. But a major surrender might. Especially if it's 10s of thousands at once. I guess my shattering word is more like "they will be unable to conduct combat operations or have offensive momentum ever again of the VDV is captured or destroyed." Also they may not be able to defend against further banditry or coups.
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2023 06:57
|
|
|
WAR CRIME GIGOLO posted:I don't think losing bakhmut will push Russia to the table juuuust yet. But a major surrender might. Especially if it's 10s of thousands at once. ah yeah ok that makes lots of sense ty for clarifying and sorry for misunderstanding
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2023 06:58
|
|
|
Karma Comedian posted:
https://twitter.com/saintjavelin/status/1676921216358129664  Wait, does that mean if I move to Russia I can live like a King? And if I don't change my stance on Putin I can fall out of a window like an oligarch? Well, don't sign me the gently caress up for that!
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2023 07:15
|
|
|
Tarquinn posted:https://twitter.com/saintjavelin/status/1676921216358129664 Only if you're someone important. If you're a nobody they'll just throw you in jail for 10-15 years! Come one, come all!
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2023 07:25
|
|
|
spankmeister posted:Only if you're someone important. If you're a nobody they'll just throw you in jail for 10-15 years! Come one, come all! Wait, so the rich get thrown out of windows, while commoners get jail time? Hmmm, I wonder if Amnesty International is hiring. 
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2023 08:05
|
|
|
HonorableTB posted:lavrov spotted That's loving horrible, and Lavrov is somehow even uglier. Like the most repulsive person in the world. Rotting from the inside out.
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2023 08:05
|
|
|
Regarding that article about former US officials negotiating with Russiansquote:The Biden admin. is "aware" that "private entities and individuals" spoke with Russian officials about the war in Ukraine, the NSC's John Kirby tells @costareports And regarding cluster munitions: quote:President Biden has approved the provision of U.S. cluster munitions for Ukraine, with drawdown of the weapons from Defense Department stocks due to be announced Friday.
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2023 08:56
|
|
|
Radical 90s Wizard posted:The roof seems like a weird place to plant explosives You know Russia and their habit of sticking ERA on literally everything they want protected, even if it actually does the opposite. 
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2023 09:21
|
|
|
So Michel Flynn and Roger Stone couldn’t help reincriminating themselves?
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2023 09:59
|
|
|
Isn't there a law against pretending to be an American diplomat?
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2023 10:31
|
|
|
Dead forum user posted:On the one hand you have Russia terror bombing civilians.
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2023 11:25
|
|
|
Tarquinn posted:https://twitter.com/saintjavelin/status/1676921216358129664 according to Russia's own tourism board commercials: you can live like a Prince Edward
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2023 11:34
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/NOELreports/status/1677244914411749378 A smoking accident happened at an explosives factory in Samara.
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2023 11:42
|
|
|
CSM posted:Human rights NGO's should protest controversial weapons that induce a large risk to civilians in war, regardless of who is using them. It's what they exist for and it's a good thing they don't pick sides in conflicts (or at least shouldn't).
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2023 11:43
|
|
|
Cluster munitions suck. Now, I'm not being invaded by Russia (who use cluster munitions extensively, in addition to committing war crimes and crimes against humanity for fun), so I won't tut-tut Ukraine if they think they are necessary to defeat the invaders. But I don't have to be happy about it. Nor do I have an issue with HRW in general or their recent report in particular.
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2023 12:06
|
|
|
Radical 90s Wizard posted:The roof seems like a weird place to plant explosives they want to deny ukraine the superior Russian tactic of moving armor on roof
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2023 12:08
|
|
|
Yeah, I think NGO's are doing their job as being the 'warning signs' that light up and go 'hey, you're doing some things that are generally not done There are consequences for this'. There's a good argument that this is an exceptional situation where you might ignore this. (And I think one of the key reasons for this exception is that unlike most cases, the people who benefit from Ukraine using Cluster bombs are the same people who would pay the price for the use of cluster bombs.) But the warning sign should still light up. Just because a side of a war is absolutely in the right and the other side are evil, fascist, genocidal fuckheads doesn't mean there's no more value in keeping count of cost to civilian lives. It just means that you have a more complicated 'scale' since on the 'don't use these tools with a cost to civilian lives' comes the 'But if this slows us down, those SAME civilians are under threat of the moscow regime, which ALSO has cost of civilian lives'
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2023 12:10
|
|
|
Dwesa posted:Regarding that article about former US officials negotiating with Russians  Holy gently caress it really is Flynn isn't it? Flynn, Stone, and Bannon
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2023 12:24
|
|
|
TulliusCicero posted:
quote:Meeting with Lavrov were Richard Haass, a former diplomat and the outgoing president of the Council on Foreign Relations, current and former officials said. The group was joined by Europe expert Charles Kupchan and Russia expert Thomas Graham, both former White House and State Department officials who are Council on Foreign Relations fellows.
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2023 12:33
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/wartranslated/status/1677273690608746498
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2023 12:36
|
|
|
Dwesa posted:nah, that NBC article mentioned these: Shogeton posted:Yeah, I think NGO's are doing their job as being the 'warning signs' that light up and go 'hey, you're doing some things that are generally not done There are consequences for this'. There's a good argument that this is an exceptional situation where you might ignore this. (And I think one of the key reasons for this exception is that unlike most cases, the people who benefit from Ukraine using Cluster bombs are the same people who would pay the price for the use of cluster bombs.) But the warning sign should still light up. Just because a side of a war is absolutely in the right and the other side are evil, fascist, genocidal fuckheads doesn't mean there's no more value in keeping count of cost to civilian lives. It just means that you have a more complicated 'scale' since on the 'don't use these tools with a cost to civilian lives' comes the 'But if this slows us down, those SAME civilians are under threat of the moscow regime, which ALSO has cost of civilian lives' 
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2023 12:40
|
|
|
Lmao how the gently caress is this Kherson beach head still a thing. Russia has assaulted it a few times now and keeps loving it up e - this isn't a reply to the above post
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2023 12:54
|
|
|
Tai posted:Lmao how the gently caress is this Kherson beach head still a thing. Russia has assaulted it a few times now and keeps loving it up The area has no significant concentration of Russian troops or artillery, they don't have air superiority, and Russian reserves basically don't exist due to the counteroffensive.
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2023 13:01
|
|
|
mobby_6kl posted:So what is the point of that exactly? A "former diplomat" has about as much power to do anything as I do. Not to mention that they should be negotiating with Ukraine. As I understand that 'if' is kind of the problem? Becuase you have a TON of them, and htey're hard to find, so compared ot munition that is larger and in smaller numbers, the same amount of 'whoops, self destruct doesn't work properly' gives you a far larger chance of civilian deaths later. (Because 1: Unexploded ammunition is far more difficult to find with a bomblet and 2: 0.1% of 100000 small bombs is going to do a lot more damage than 0.1% of 1000 larger bombs.
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2023 13:04
|
|
|
Warbadger posted:The area has no significant concentration of Russian troops or artillery, they don't have air superiority, and Russian reserves basically don't exist due to the counteroffensive. And what air superiority they do have is questionable at best, because the last report from that direction mentioned that they aimed 3 FAB-500 bombs at the bridgehead and somehow missed with all three.
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2023 13:15
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 30, 2024 10:55 |
|
|
https://twitter.com/jwrchappell/status/1677057829004529664 gently caress off
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2023 13:19
|
|