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Punished Ape posted:You might be thinking of The Washington Times, which is founded/owned by the Unification Church. Newsweek too, though--Newsweek was acquired by IBT Media: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBT_Media It's not owned by IBT anymore, though--check the "Controversies" section for more details. Sir John Falstaff fucked around with this message at 21:04 on Jul 6, 2023 |
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Jul 6, 2023 20:52
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Sir John Falstaff posted:Newsweek too, though--Newsweek was acquired by IBT Media: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBT_Media It’s just owned by the guy who owns IBT, totally different.
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Jul 6, 2023 21:04
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in a well actually posted:It’s just owned by the guy who owns IBT, totally different. It's apparently kind of messy--one of the board members of NW Media Holdings (the company that owns Newsweek now) sued IBT Media over IBT'S mismanagement of Newsweek. Jonathan Davis co-owns NW Media with Dev Pragad, and also co-owns IBT with Etienne Uzac. Pragad sued Davis in NW Media's name, but seems to have lost because Davis (as the other board member of NW Media) didn't agree to sue himself. https://caselaw.findlaw.com/court/ny-supreme-court-appellate-division/2204580.html So, sounds like Newsweek is now owned by two people who hate each other, which sounds healthy. e: more, from 2022: quote:In a suit that was unsealed this week, Johnathan Davis, one of the owners of Newsweek’s current parent, NW Media Holdings Corp., alleged that co-owner Dev Pragad secured unauthorized increases in compensation and directed meeting notes to be falsified. That comes after Mr. Pragad earlier this month sued Mr. Davis for alleged breaches of fiduciary duties. Each complainant is seeking damages and to remove the other from the board. https://www.wsj.com/articles/newsweek-engulfed-in-legal-drama-as-co-owners-sue-each-other-11659096002 Sir John Falstaff fucked around with this message at 21:32 on Jul 6, 2023 |
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Jul 6, 2023 21:24
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That's what happens when you buy a failing newspaper with the lead singer of KoRn.
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Jul 6, 2023 23:55
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McGavin posted:That's what happens when you buy a failing newspaper with the lead singer of KoRn. Man, I'm so blind.
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Jul 6, 2023 23:55
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Qtotonibudinibudet posted:bored oligarch PMC club? You guys just don’t get it Multiple spicy teas can be used per
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Jul 7, 2023 08:16
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bulletsponge13 posted:As a multiple time PotY, hard agree. Turn on you are Time magazine
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Jul 7, 2023 08:21
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McGavin posted:That's what happens when you buy a failing newspaper with the lead singer of KoRn. Is there any other kind?
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Jul 7, 2023 08:31
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Citizen KoЯn
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Jul 7, 2023 09:28
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Biden approved cluster munitions for Ukraine and a lot of watchdog groups are freaking out. I guess if Ukraine wants to bear the risk of UXO on their own territory, that's their decision.
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Jul 7, 2023 11:04
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psydude posted:Biden approved cluster munitions for Ukraine and a lot of watchdog groups are freaking out. I guess if Ukraine wants to bear the risk of UXO on their own territory, that's their decision. It a real "ugh" move, okay it's legal but the morality is quite dubious to me, even if I'm fully on Ukraine winning.
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Jul 7, 2023 11:11
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Between UXO and genocide, I would pick UXO personally. That's what it boils down to, die horrifically or have some explosives to clean up.
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Jul 7, 2023 11:48
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Plus now you can issue open bidding to the MIC for enormous stacks of cash for semi-autonomous UXO detection and disposal systems.
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Jul 7, 2023 11:50
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These also aren't being shot at Afghan villages. They're going to be used in areas that are already infested with mines and other types of UXO.
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Jul 7, 2023 11:51
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Rust Martialis posted:It a real "ugh" move, okay it's legal but the morality is quite dubious to me, even if I'm fully on Ukraine winning. War is quite morally dubious but here we are, the alternative to not providing Ukraine with these weapons is that we don't provide them which is even more morally wrong IMO.
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Jul 7, 2023 12:25
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I think there's a distinct moral difference between "we are fighting a defensive war, we will accept some cleanup later in exchange for not being genocided now" and "we're fighting an offensive war, we don't give a poo poo about whatever civilians are going to get UXO'd in the future because they aren't our civilians." At least in my mind.
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Jul 7, 2023 12:27
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psydude posted:.... I guess if Ukraine wants to bear the risk of UXO on their own territory, that's their decision. Rust Martialis posted:It a real "ugh" move, okay it's legal but the morality is quite dubious to me, even if I'm fully on Ukraine winning. Plenty of UXO lying about already. Relatively little of it Ukrainian in origin. None of it would be there but for the Russian invasion. Ukrainians will already be demining their country for the next thousand years. Cluster munitions will make it the next 1,100 while imposing a higher cost on the Russians. This likely shortens the war. I'm confident Ukraine would not be doing this if they didn't have to. e: Thread moves fast.
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Jul 7, 2023 12:34
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PurpleXVI posted:I think there's a distinct moral difference between "we are fighting a defensive war, we will accept some cleanup later in exchange for not being genocided now" and "we're fighting an offensive war, we don't give a poo poo about whatever civilians are going to get UXO'd in the future because they aren't our civilians." My opinion is that anyone who does not have this opinion is just making excuses for not helping Ukraine in this war. Or are obstructionists and "we are just asking questions"-trolls privately cheering for the Russia. Or complete idealistic tool-bags, the Lisa Simpsons of the world, whose opinions should be ignored when dealing with reality.
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Jul 7, 2023 12:39
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Didn't they want to use cluster submunitions for drone attacks? I distinctly remember reading that somewhere...
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Jul 7, 2023 13:13
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Wibla posted:Didn't they want to use cluster submunitions for drone attacks? I distinctly remember reading that somewhere... I think what you are remembering is them disassembling cluster munitions to use the individual bomblets on small drones like they are using those improvised hand grenades or whatever they are dropping already.
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Jul 7, 2023 13:15
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I loving hate cluster munitions after seeing them firsthand. I think they should be of incredibly limited use, but I am OK with using Cluster Bomblets in the theorized situation. Dropping a few CBU82 over a trench system is different than scattering them to and from over a village.
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Jul 7, 2023 13:18
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Der Kyhe posted:My opinion is that anyone who does not have this opinion is just making excuses for not helping Ukraine in this war. Or are obstructionists and "we are just asking questions"-trolls privately cheering for the Russia. Or complete idealistic tool-bags, the Lisa Simpsons of the world, whose opinions should be ignored when dealing with reality. nah this is dumb There's a ton of valid reasons to not want Ukraine to end up even more littered with UXO that aren't just secret pro-russian trolls. I think it's extremely good that Ukraine gets the tools it needs to defend itself but good lord there will be hell to pay in the future and the decision to provide, accept, and use such weapons should be made with that in mind. it's Ukrainian people that will pay the price for this in the coming years, thousands of them. Yes the responsibility for that is on Russia, but the people paying the price will be Ukrainians.
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Jul 7, 2023 13:19
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Der Kyhe posted:My opinion is that anyone who does not have this opinion is just making excuses for not helping Ukraine in this war. Or are obstructionists and "we are just asking questions"-trolls privately cheering for the Russia. Or complete idealistic tool-bags, the Lisa Simpsons of the world, whose opinions should be ignored when dealing with reality. The end doesn't justify the means just because they are in a defensive war. It gives them broad latitude but there's still a limit and its worth finding it.
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Jul 7, 2023 14:08
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Any ideas on the failure rates of what we're providing them vs. historic cluster weapons (i.e. US in Vietnam or Soviet stuff)? You'd have to think there's some significant improvement there at least.
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Jul 7, 2023 14:17
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Herstory Begins Now posted:nah this is dumb Also I'm not thrilled that the US still has massive stockpiles of cluster munitions in the first place.
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Jul 7, 2023 14:17
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In a war for survival against a genocidal enemy? Yeah, unlimited warfare. If they ain’t actively surrendering and laying down arms I don’t really care how they kill Ivan so much as I care that they kill Ivan. We can tut-tut about the how when writing the history books.
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Jul 7, 2023 14:18
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lightpole posted:The end doesn't justify the means just because they are in a defensive war. It gives them broad latitude but there's still a limit and its worth finding it. The ends don't justify the means because there is never ever an End. Things continue forever and you are always in the means part of the equation, so the means are all that matters. But the means being cluster munitions is perfectly fine. The cluster munitions aren't being used to terrorize towns.
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Jul 7, 2023 14:25
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Flying_Crab posted:Any ideas on the failure rates of what we're providing them vs. historic cluster weapons (i.e. US in Vietnam or Soviet stuff)? You'd have to think there's some significant improvement there at least. Depends on what they are
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Jul 7, 2023 14:26
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LtCol J. Krusinski posted:In a war for survival against a genocidal enemy? Yeah, unlimited warfare. If they ain’t actively surrendering and laying down arms I don’t really care how they kill Ivan so much as I care that they kill Ivan. the big issue with them is that they kill your own people and not just far off in the future, but promptly when you then move forces into recently bombed areas that haven't been cleared yet like give ukraine whatever they need, but even noted 'lisa simpson of the world' the US military decided that the cost:benefit there was difficult to justify, hence the shift to weapon systems using a few very large submunitions vs large numbers of small submunitions
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Jul 7, 2023 14:27
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Herstory Begins Now posted:the big issue with them is that they kill your own people and not just far off in the future, but promptly when you then move forces into recently bombed areas that haven't been cleared yet It is extremely hard to justify. You are 100% correct about that. Their circumstances justify their use, however.
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Jul 7, 2023 14:28
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yeah I'm not disputing that last part whatsoever, just calling out the blase attitude towards the cost of using them from der khye
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Jul 7, 2023 14:29
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Flying_Crab posted:Any ideas on the failure rates of what we're providing them vs. historic cluster weapons (i.e. US in Vietnam or Soviet stuff)? You'd have to think there's some significant improvement there at least. It seems like they're "DPICMs" and they have a failure rate of 2 to 30% depending on what your source is. The lower bound is the US DoD, while the upper bound is Humans Right Watch quoting unnamed EOD personnel. Herstory Begins Now posted:yeah I'm not disputing that last part whatsoever, just calling out the blase attitude towards the cost of using them I think its less being blase towards the cost, more saying that the Ukrainians are the ones who get to decide what cost they'll bear to liberate their country, not anyone else.
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Jul 7, 2023 14:30
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LtCol J. Krusinski posted:In a war for survival against a genocidal enemy? Yeah, unlimited warfare. If they ain’t actively surrendering and laying down arms I don’t really care how they kill Ivan so much as I care that they kill Ivan. If you push this to an extreme case you start justifying war crimes that aren't ever justifiable. I'm not advocating either way, its just worth thinking through.
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Jul 7, 2023 14:30
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I’m only really down with the U.S. using them in the most dire and extreme of circumstances. Ukraine lives with those circumstances daily. So I mean, in my mind? Justified. I’m willing to admit being in the minority.
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Jul 7, 2023 14:31
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lightpole posted:If you push this to an extreme case you start justifying war crimes that aren't ever justifiable. I'm not advocating either way, its just worth thinking through. I know where the lines are. And all war is criminal, all of it. Just hope your on the winning or at least richer side at the end of the war.
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Jul 7, 2023 14:34
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We are phasing out cluster munitions and phasing in smart munitions for all of those reasons yes. That just means that they're still effectively cluster munitions expect they target you specifically and have enough smart electronics in them to guarantee they blow up at some point very shortly after launch. Saves us both bombing useless dirt and UXO.
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Jul 7, 2023 14:36
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PurpleXVI posted:I think its less being blase towards the cost, more saying that the Ukrainians are the ones who get to decide what cost they'll bear to liberate their country, not anyone else. that wasn't the argument being made, i'm mostly calling out der khye's weird post about how the only reason anyone would object to cluster munitions is because they're the lisa simpsons of the world or secret russian sympathizers, which is just dumb as hell. it's also completely at odds with DoD's own position on cluster munitions
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Jul 7, 2023 14:37
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I imagine a lot of people are frustrated that now, after eighteen months or so, in which Russia has basically just kept on doing what they're doing and the best you can say is that they're not murdering or castrating all the Ukrainian prisoners they take, people keep talking like we "need to bring both sides to the negotiating table." The obstinate party in this is Russia, who could leave at any time, and indeed, ought to if they would like to keep Crimea, but doing that would probably make Putin feel like he's a lib now.
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Jul 7, 2023 14:41
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The general acceptance rate for large munitions like bombs and missiles is around 30% according to my training, but that's anecdotal and not a good source, even if it seems to fit with overall reality, studies, and independent reports. Anecdotally, it seems higher. The failure in arming rate seemed a LOT higher than 30%; but a whole hell of a lot were armed and failed to detonate. I'm actually mid-composition in writing out the story where a local gentleman brought me a laundry basket full of bomblets he picked up by hand so his daughter was safe.
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Jul 7, 2023 14:44
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Der Kyhe posted:My opinion is that anyone who does not have this opinion is just making excuses for not helping Ukraine in this war. Or are obstructionists and "we are just asking questions"-trolls privately cheering for the Russia. Or complete idealistic tool-bags, the Lisa Simpsons of the world, whose opinions should be ignored when dealing with reality. This is a ridiculous assertion.
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Jul 7, 2023 14:44
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