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Venomous posted:sorry idgi, is the joke that he gave most of those matches the same ratings as Dave did or The joke is he wasn't rating the in ring peak of what is considered the greatest in ring company of all time. He rated six matches from the company's history, one with two Americans and the rest from after the split because he was watching "Best of Japan" comp tapes.
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Jul 6, 2023 15:56
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MassRafTer posted:Dave does not discount them and in fact recently cited that is the bottom of the scale and that there is no top of the scale. This question is either more fun or more depressing, maybe both: Anybody rate a match lower than Bushwackers vs. Sheik/Volkoff? Because having watched both, I would rate the Villanos/Psycho Circus match as even sadder than that one.
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Jul 6, 2023 15:59
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Halloween Jack posted:I read somewhere else that he rating that match -459.4 stars. That's more annoying, because now every integer is split up into tenths instead of quarters. So now it's a 4,660-point scale, until a match gets 7.1 or -459.5. Actually yes, that is correct he cited the absolute zero stars or -459.4 stars rating as the bottom of the scale. Bryan Alvarez is the one who did -more stars than there stars in the universe and the universe is infinite.
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Jul 6, 2023 16:11
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MassRafTer posted:The joke is he wasn't rating the in ring peak of what is considered the greatest in ring company of all time. He rated six matches from the company's history, one with two Americans and the rest from after the split because he was watching "Best of Japan" comp tapes. oh ok, I didn't bother looking at the link, my bad. Makes sense tbh
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Jul 6, 2023 16:29
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I've seen and heard bits of Meltzer, but I was pretty late to modern non-WWE wrestling. I also just don't care to get that deep. I want to like stuff, and I don't want to find out something like Adam Cole has a dog fighting ring he runs or whatever. Besides I'll see it literally everywhere else on the internet that mentions wrestling anyway. What I have seen though, is that he tends to rate women's matches a full star or more in what seemed to be a great match the audience was going wild for. Is that just my perception and I'm seeing a bad sampling of his ratings, or is it that normal for him? Once I first saw Riho, Emi, and Shida I knew I liked joshi wrestling. I'm an easy to entertain audience, but those women do so much with so few resources, and are so good and hard hitting. My faves are people like Mox, Eddie, Hayter, and when I was younger Steve Austin. Brawlers that look like they've hung sheetrock in the heat before. I haven't learned enough names, but I get that same vibe when I watch some of those women.
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Jul 6, 2023 17:11
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Bad news about AEW wrestlers and dog fighting I’m afraid https://youtu.be/NxpGLX95DTY
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Jul 6, 2023 17:12
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The other difference with today is that there’s so much more there to watch - to use an example for All Japan for much of the 90s you had an hour (and on the second half of the decade half a hour) a week of TV and towards the end of the decade you began to get full shows airing on PPV and Samurai while today you can watch basically every show including house shows that would not have gotten close to airing before. Does mean that you can’t have someone that “watches everything” in the same way - because that would increase dramatically even if you prioritised major shows. I think Meltzer is fair towards women’s matches: he was quite possibly the first major person pushing Joshi in the west back in the 80s (because Terry Funk recommended AJW to him in the early 80s when he first went to Japan because he thought they were better than most male wrestlers) and that carried on until Joshi went down in the late 90s and nearly died. His ratings on US stuff reflects that US womens wrestling suffered from 60+ years of women being manipulated into wrestling to become victims of abuse and later on people being thrown in the ring without training and being told they shouldn’t train and getting punished if they dared to try and do what the guys were allowed to do and you can’t fix the harm that causes to a scene in a couple of years in terms of talent development and the like. He’s also into a certain style of wrestling and that impacts things but I don’t think that’s an intentional thing to argue against women’s wrestling.
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Jul 6, 2023 17:39
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Lucifunk posted:I've seen and heard bits of Meltzer, but I was pretty late to modern non-WWE wrestling. I also just don't care to get that deep. I want to like stuff, and I don't want to find out something like Adam Cole has a dog fighting ring he runs or whatever. Besides I'll see it literally everywhere else on the internet that mentions wrestling anyway. No, I don't think he really marks down joshi wrestling, the problem is he barely watches it. He checks the big Stardom shows, but going by Cagematch he has rated 1 TJPW match and that's about it from non-Stardom joshi groups. Not anything from Sendai Girls, SEAdLINNNG, Marvelous, Diana, Oz Academy, Gatoh Move, Ice Ribbon or anything else. We know he has deeply enjoyed Zenjo back in the day, at a time it was a lot harder to follow from the US than today. And it's a shame because Dave's recommendations are still influential, you can see the number of reviews on Cagematch a BJW Strong title match gets normally and then compare to the match from May between Yuji Okabayashi & Yuya Aoki which he reviewed and is already the 3rd most reviewed match from the company on the site, and 1 & 2 are 2 of the best deathmatches ever, from 5 & 16 years ago. But I guess he really has to watch 18 hours of WWE a week
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Jul 6, 2023 17:48
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That's true of a lot of stuff beyond joshi, he's a little better on Dragon Gate/NOAH/All Japan, but not that much. I don't know if he's ever rated a DDT show. He was definitely late and/or spotty with ROH and PWG, and outside of really major shows/match he doesn't seem to rate that many US indies or anything from Mexico or Europe in the same way he does WWE/AEW/NJPW/sometimes Impact and Stardom. There's really an enormous amount of wrestling being produced and there are a lot of gaps in Meltzer's viewing, which is understandable.
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Jul 6, 2023 18:18
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Lucifunk posted:I've seen and heard bits of Meltzer, but I was pretty late to modern non-WWE wrestling. I also just don't care to get that deep. I want to like stuff, and I don't want to find out something like Adam Cole has a dog fighting ring he runs or whatever. Besides I'll see it literally everywhere else on the internet that mentions wrestling anyway. Check out AJW on YouTube. Modern Joshi is awesome - I love me some TJPW - but old school Joshi has big badass fuckers punching each other to death and it's great. Aja Kong, Dump Matsumoto, Bull Nakano...some of the coolest wrestlers ever. I don't know who was in the match because I missed it but I once caught a Joshi boxing match on my channel and was blown away, it was brutal, bloody, and crazy exciting. The Brawl-For-All could never. Erin M. Fiasco fucked around with this message at 18:20 on Jul 6, 2023 |
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Jul 6, 2023 18:18
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Is there even a metric for what constitutes a scale-breaking 6 or 7 star match? Or is it just "5 star matches are all-time classics but I needed an S-tier"? It seems like if he's continuing to rate above 5 for the past few years, it doesn't "break" the scale anymore, it's just a new scale with more numbers.
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Jul 6, 2023 19:42
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Bonk posted:Is there even a metric for what constitutes a scale-breaking 6 or 7 star match? Or is it just "5 star matches are all-time classics but I needed an S-tier"? The scale was never a five star scale.
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Jul 6, 2023 19:43
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MassRafTer posted:The scale was never a five star scale.
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Jul 6, 2023 19:50
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Is the english-language IWC aware of any foreign smarks who grew up with lucha, puro, etc. whose match ratings are afforded a similar level of respect/handwringing within their communities?
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Jul 6, 2023 19:51
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Coaaab posted:Is the english-language IWC aware of any foreign smarks who grew up with lucha, puro, etc. whose match ratings are afforded a similar level of respect/handwringing within their communities? There was a story from that Alfredo dude who covered (covers?)lucha, apparently an unnamed luchadore was told by someone how well regarded he was by US IWC and was shown how people looked at his matches and saw all kinds of psychology and his reaction was supposedly "I did all that?"
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Jul 6, 2023 19:57
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Thanks for the context everyone, as well as some more suggestions to check out.
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Jul 6, 2023 21:01
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History Comes Inside! posted:The best wrestling time to be had is at your local lovely indie. The shittier the better. My local lovely Indie runs its shows in a fantastic brewery and costs like :tenbux:, its great. Also they have Harley Hudson, who needs to get signed up by a big company already
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Jul 6, 2023 21:33
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our local wrestlers seem mostly cool but I dont really like the crowds at our shows very much. especially the big room shows with a lot of standing room.
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Jul 6, 2023 23:30
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MassRafTer posted:The scale was never a five star scale. It's ten stars and Dave just thinks wrestlers are bad at their jobs.
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Jul 7, 2023 00:17
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My local indy seems very hot right now but as a consequence they sell out too fast for me to get tix 
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Jul 7, 2023 00:36
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MassRafTer posted:The scale was never a five star scale. DEAN! established that the scale went up to million billion stars. Just that no one ever deserved it outside of like Bull Pain.
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Jul 7, 2023 02:55
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I'm just watching Forbidden Door now and the Tiger Driver 91 move scared the poo poo out of me. What's the history of that move? Is that the way it's supposed to be taken?
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Jul 7, 2023 18:18
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Procrastinator posted:our local wrestlers seem mostly cool but I dont really like the crowds at our shows very much. especially the big room shows with a lot of standing room. my local indies have amazing crowds for the most part, makes shows fun, except theres this one group of dude who calls themselves something along the lines of "[Local Area] Sign Crew" and go to local indies and scream obnoxious internet smark comments and chants over everyone". Wicked obnoxious especially when it's a small one with a lot of kids there and the audience is hot and really playing into kayfabe then you have a bunch of neckbeards yelling "chants" that sound like they're straight from the psp wwf thread
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Jul 7, 2023 18:29
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The Grey posted:I'm just watching Forbidden Door now and the Tiger Driver 91 move scared the poo poo out of me. It's not supposed to be taken quite like that. You can see here how the taker lands mostly on their neck and shoulders. It's still gnarly and dangerous, obviously. 
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Jul 7, 2023 18:39
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The Grey posted:I'm just watching Forbidden Door now and the Tiger Driver 91 move scared the poo poo out of me. Yeah, it's a Japanese move from 1991 (hence the name) where you just dump the other guy right on his head. If anything Kenny took it safer than the original, he kind of moved to land on his shoulder
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Jul 7, 2023 18:39
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The Grey posted:I'm just watching Forbidden Door now and the Tiger Driver 91 move scared the poo poo out of me. The Tiger Driver is one of Mitsuhara Misawa's finishers. It's executed the same as the one Will did to Kenny, but the taker usually flips over putting their legs on Misawa's shoulders and taking a normal back bump as from a sit out powerbomb. I'm not sure if it originated as a botch or not, but in the 91 the person taking it doesn't get flipped over and the wrestler performing the move drops to their knees instead of sitting out, driving their opponent's head and neck into the mat. It became a sort of more brutal version of the Tiger Driver. The King's Road style in AJPW at the time led to all sorts of brutal finishers that saw people taking vicious head and neck bumps. As far as I can tell, the one in the Omega Ospreay match was done about as safe as you can do it while still being identifiable as the Tiger Driver 91. AEW announcer Excalibur did a version of the move called Tiger Driver 98, which worked the same way, but Excalibur would sit out with his legs closer together so as not to just drive his opponent's head onto the mat unprotected.
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Jul 7, 2023 19:09
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I believe the Jay Driller and Tiger Driver ‘98 are the same move?
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Jul 7, 2023 19:15
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Who was the death match guy who almost legit died during a ladder match getting I believe his arm sliced open. Was it jun kasai? Cant remember and too lazy to google.
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Jul 7, 2023 19:15
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david arquette?
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Jul 7, 2023 19:17
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It's probably happened several times so idk if this is the one you mean. There was a GCW match last year where Hoodfoot and SLADE jousted with broken light tubes and Hoodfoot caught two really bad gashes to his arm and had to be rushed to the hospital.
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Jul 7, 2023 19:23
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I think you’re thinking of G-Raver if it was a recent one. Guy was later outed as an abuser and has apparently made a return in XPW because of course.
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Jul 7, 2023 19:24
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There was also Masashi Takeda nearly dying during a match with Jimmy Lloyd, he got punctured real bad in the neck by a scissor board
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Jul 7, 2023 19:29
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History Comes Inside! posted:I think you’re thinking of G-Raver if it was a recent one. This is the one. And also yikes.
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Jul 7, 2023 19:30
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Captain Foo posted:I believe the Jay Driller and Tiger Driver ‘98 are the same move? Allegedly no but basically yes. Way more people have kicked out of the Driller, though. It's kind of a meme on the ThROH the Years podcast.
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Jul 7, 2023 19:39
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apophenium posted:AEW announcer Excalibur did a version of the move called Tiger Driver 98, which worked the same way, but Excalibur would sit out with his legs closer together so as not to just drive his opponent's head onto the mat unprotected. Are you sure about that https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ND2Q9C0weyo Pretty sure there are some deaths here
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Jul 7, 2023 20:31
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Dawgstar posted:Allegedly no but basically yes. Way more people have kicked out of the Driller, though. It's kind of a meme on the ThROH the Years podcast. Oh i wasn’t talking about the lore, only that mechanically they’re both double underhook sitout piledrivers. Also i bet on the lore front the jay driller is way more powerful now 
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Jul 7, 2023 20:34
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The Taxman posted:Are you sure about that I guess he would usually do it safer.
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Jul 7, 2023 20:39
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someones getting burning hammered during omega ospreay 3
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Jul 7, 2023 21:58
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I want it to be a psycho driver
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Jul 7, 2023 22:01
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I saw a backyard driver compilation once that featured a straightjacket psycho driver and it was one of the most ‘oh no children what are you doing’ things I’d ever seen
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Jul 7, 2023 22:06
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