(Thread IKs:
weg, Toxic Mental)
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The US also doesn't focus on artillery as part of doctrine, and isn't spending money to kick up manufacturing for someone else's war
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Jul 7, 2023 19:16
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| # ? May 31, 2024 01:32 |
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Sedgr posted:Something something escalation! why would you put artillery shells on an escalator?
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Jul 7, 2023 19:18
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Tunicate posted:The US also doesn't focus on artillery as part of doctrine, and isn't spending money to kick up manufacturing for someone else's war Actually... https://www.defensenews.com/digital-show-dailies/2023/03/28/us-army-eyes-six-fold-production-boost-of-155mm-shells-used-in-ukraine/ Sixfold production increase has been ordered.
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Jul 7, 2023 19:19
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https://twitter.com/ManiacMagic1/status/1677301457773527040 S-60s now being reactivated in Crimea. Do they even have a sufficient amount of rusty ammo for these things left?
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Jul 7, 2023 19:21
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OAquinas posted:Actually... In 5 years
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Jul 7, 2023 19:22
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Tunicate posted:The US also doesn't focus on artillery as part of doctrine, and isn't spending money to kick up manufacturing for someone else's war Air superiority is our jam. And tanks that are basically artillery.
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Jul 7, 2023 19:24
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<Deep A Capella Bass> Where in the world is General Surovikin? https://twitter.com/chriso_wiki/status/1676716476689002496?s=61&t=i2fBauiVdhU9dgf29rWHtQ Shoigu is personally on the case. So the one changes at the MoD for the march of justice is that Wager friendly generals get disappeared.
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Jul 7, 2023 19:25
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shell hunger seems to be a practically universal feature of serious land war
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Jul 7, 2023 19:30
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https://twitter.com/Flash_news_ua/status/1677382875505647630 Air raid alert issued throughout Ukraine. Mig-31Ks have taken off.
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Jul 7, 2023 19:32
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Is draftkings taking action yet on returned vs launched Russian airframes?
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Jul 7, 2023 19:36
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zone posted:https://twitter.com/ManiacMagic1/status/1677301457773527040 Having the ammo probably isn't as important as obeying your boss when he calls up and says, "our records show you have two dozen AA batteries that you aren't fielding. what air defense doing??".
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Jul 7, 2023 19:37
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CNN interviewed some Russian POWs near the front line. Dunno how much of it you can believe it, but it's pretty much what we have been hearing all year from various sources https://edition.cnn.com/2023/07/06/europe/captured-russian-soldiers-ukraine-intl-cmd/index.html quote:“It was very different from what I saw on TV. Parallel reality. I felt fear, pain and disappointment in my commanders,” he says.
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Jul 7, 2023 19:42
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weg posted:Having the ammo probably isn't as important as obeying your boss when he calls up and says, "our records show you have two dozen AA batteries that you aren't fielding. what air defense doing??". Well given that air defense hasn't exactly been faring that well lately either, they should more be asking 'how air defense doing' instead
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Jul 7, 2023 19:43
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OAquinas posted:Actually... Yeah one of the ironies of this war was it highlighted to the US that our artillery had been long stagnating and was a blind spot in over-reliance on air power. It's not like we're shifting doctrines away but we're definitely investing more into our artillery blind spot now.
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Jul 7, 2023 19:57
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Nelson Mandingo posted:Yeah one of the ironies of this war was it highlighted to the US that our artillery had been long stagnating and was a blind spot in over-reliance on air power. It's not like we're shifting doctrines away but we're definitely investing more into our artillery blind spot now. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-A31fegpaAI
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Jul 7, 2023 20:04
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zone posted:Well given that air defense hasn't exactly been faring that well lately either, they should more be asking 'how air defense doing' instead Haha true, but I think they know exactly how air defense doing which is why they are sending ancient guns. The question has really become, "is air defense doing?" lol
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Jul 7, 2023 20:04
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https://twitter.com/Flash_news_ua/status/1677392238798577678 New security package announced. This one includes 32 apiece of Bradleys and Strykers, 31 155mm howitzers, additional Patriot and HIMARS ammo, DPICM shells, and a number of other goodies.
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Jul 7, 2023 20:06
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Sedgr posted:Something something escalation! water on the knee
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Jul 7, 2023 20:07
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Shogeton posted:As someone said, it has shades of a Trolely problem. Inaction (don't send cluster ammunition) means that civilians die, but it is through the actions and the responsibility of another. Sending the the cluster ammunition, there's good odds that it'll increase the succes of the war on Ukraine's side, which is good for Ukraine, and gives Russia's less chance to commit crimes on civilians.... but it also means that you actively took part in an action that killed civilians. So it's not just a matter of arguing the facts (how dangerous are they to civilians VS how effective are they against Russia) but also some moral questions that people have been arguing about forever. (To what degree it justified to actively cause harm to innocents, if you believe a greater amount of innocents can be saved?) It's like the trolley problem except there's a third rail labelled 'send them the actual good poo poo that doesn't kill kids 10 years down the line', but it's got a toll gate with a negligible fee, so is obviously not an option. OAquinas posted:They need more 155mm shells than can be made currently. The real takeaway from this war is "lol the west has dogshit munitions production capacity for what a peer war requires" Or temporarily reduce the reserves by a few million while ramping up production, so they get used in a battle for survival instead of rusting in a warehouse of a nation with absolute air superiority against any other country in the world.
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Jul 7, 2023 20:08
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Oscar Wilde Bunch posted:<Deep A Capella Bass> For what he's done in Syria, I hope he died a painful death.
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Jul 7, 2023 20:29
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Surovikin is fine and he says "hey guys!"
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Jul 7, 2023 20:31
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https://twitter.com/Flash_news_ua/status/1677396069397700624 Ukraine managed to repatriate the remains of those who died in the Olenivka prison massacre.
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Jul 7, 2023 20:33
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god please help me posted:Yeah, I don't get what the deal is. Why not make socks which are better in literally every way? For their 50+ year old leftover jackboots. The footwraps essentially pack your feet into jackboots and stop them bouncing around.
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Jul 7, 2023 20:33
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I bet an aerosolized system that saturates the battlefield with thc wouldn't be against the Geneva Convention. It should be heavier than air, too to fill up all those trenches. Then Ukraine forces could take advantage of the Russian entrenched troops' disoriented state to waft good smelling foods their way and feed those Russian troops and talk about ways they could get the gently caress out of Ukraine
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Jul 7, 2023 20:39
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TheDrive have an article up covering the crashed/downed/failed Stormshadow. The tldr is it's definitely been hauled back to Moscow for reverse engineering. https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/crashed-storm-shadow-missile-falls-into-russian-hands
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Jul 7, 2023 20:43
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So how much will the cluster munitions help the Ukranians in the counteroffensive? Will it make a huge difference?
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Jul 7, 2023 20:54
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Pablo Bluth posted:TheDrive have an article up covering the crashed/downed/failed Stormshadow. The tldr is it's definitely been hauled back to Moscow for reverse engineering.
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Jul 7, 2023 20:56
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RDM posted:Who cares? This isn't WWII where classified fuses could be reproduced by a couple guys in a machine shop. If Russia could make advanced solid state electronics they wouldn't be using all the Chinese commercial grade poo poo in their weapons. Russia is actually good at electronic warfare so they might be able to make countermeasures
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Jul 7, 2023 20:58
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https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-ato/3732877-ukrainian-forces-advancing-on-southern-front-line-general-tarnavskyi.html General Tarnavskyi says that advances are being made on the front, 28 pieces of Russian equipment were destroyed, and two companies of enemy soldiers were killed and wounded.
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Jul 7, 2023 21:00
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spankmeister posted:Russia is actually good at electronic warfare so they might be able to make countermeasures theorectically, sure. Also keep in mind that their missile engineers that were involved with the hypersonic missile aren't working on anything anymore. And then they have to have the materials to implement countermeasures and I don't know if they have enough washing machines for that yet. Selling that poo poo to NK might get them a few magic beans though. I assume China already has all the info they need on them.
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Jul 7, 2023 21:02
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spankmeister posted:Russia is actually good at electronic warfare so they might be able to make countermeasures If you want to make a cruise missile stop you hit it with another missile.
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Jul 7, 2023 21:03
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RDM posted:The point of cruise missiles is that you don't have to tell them what to hit after you fire them, so electronic warfare is useless. No it isn't useless, not if you can confuse it's guidance systems and bring it down
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Jul 7, 2023 21:06
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OAquinas posted:The real takeaway from this war is "lol the west has dogshit munitions production capacity for what a peer war requires" This is the story of literally every major war since the invention of the cannon. Both WW1 and WW2 had shell usage massively in excess of estimates, which led to people scrambling to increase production. Every single major land war has had artillery consumption far outstrip production and estimated use and seen people blow through their peacetime stocks in the first few months. The thing is that maintaining the sort of shell production needed to sustain a major war in peacetime is a absurd waste of time, money, and resources, so you don't do it. Russia also doesn't have remotely the shell production required to sustain this war, the only difference is that they've been using up the carcass of the USSR's absolutely bugfuck insane stockpiles to fight this war, which has allowed them to shoot just an absurd amount of artillery. These stocks are basically depleted now, which is why their rate of fire has slowed down dramatically.
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Jul 7, 2023 21:06
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spankmeister posted:No it isn't useless, not if you can confuse it's guidance systems and bring it down The way to confuse inertial navigation is to hit it really hard. Like with another missile.
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Jul 7, 2023 21:08
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Pot Smoke Phoenix posted:I bet an aerosolized system that saturates the battlefield with thc wouldn't be against the Geneva Convention. it would be because geneva outlaws literally any gas usage on the enemy, regardless of how harmless it may be. the reason for this is less "all gas is bastard" and more "yeah okay you might toss tear gas at a trench and that's not gonna hurt anyone but your opponent mistaking it for VX and retaliating in kind sure as poo poo will hurt people"
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Jul 7, 2023 21:09
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RDM posted:Aircraft from non-lovely military industrial complexes use inertial navigation. The missile knows where it is at all times anyway.
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Jul 7, 2023 21:09
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Coolguye posted:it would be because geneva outlaws literally any gas usage on the enemy, regardless of how harmless it may be. Tear gas in warfare will absolutely hurt people because you use it to force the enemy out of cover where you then shoot them dead with your conventional weapons.
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Jul 7, 2023 21:10
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Flyinglemur posted:theorectically, sure. Also keep in mind that their missile engineers that were involved with the hypersonic missile aren't working on anything anymore. They aren't working on anything because they were sent to the gulag for treason.
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Jul 7, 2023 21:12
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Geisladisk posted:Tear gas in warfare will absolutely hurt people because you use it to force the enemy out of cover where you then shoot them dead with your conventional weapons. i mean geneva isn't intended to make sure war doesn't hurt people period, or to outlaw war as a concept it is intended to make sure that the most harmful and dangerous aspects of war don't self-perpetuate and make it any more wasteful and stupid than it already is.
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Jul 7, 2023 21:13
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| # ? May 31, 2024 01:32 |
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spankmeister posted:Russia is actually good at electronic warfare so they might be able to make countermeasures Even if that point is conceded, with the reduction of labor, the across-the-board embargoes, and the demoralized troops getting all their materiel stolen/blown up, any practical countermeasures aren't really gonna happen. Best they can do is sell the secrets to China for inventory, but that puts a valuable weapon in the hands of a capable neighbor. Hell, China might have acquired the details on it already.
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Jul 7, 2023 21:19
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