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the codices make it sound like priming draws off internal aether regardless of environment, so hugo really wasn't risking anything more than normal by doing so in the blightlands. probably it's not normally done because the blightlands usually don't contain anything but rocks and ash
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Jul 10, 2023 03:56
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Oxxidation posted:the codices make it sound like priming draws off internal aether regardless of environment, so hugo really wasn't risking anything more than normal by doing so in the blightlands. probably it's not normally done because the blightlands usually don't contain anything but rocks and ash I can't remember which one (I think it might be the Destruction of the Hideout one) but one of them basically says "Hugo hosed up to do this but he was too angry and it was the fact he was in great condition for a Dominant that it wasn't more serious."
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Jul 10, 2023 04:01
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Something I might not have caught: how long has the Blight been a thing? It seems like it's spreading really quickly and is a relatively recent phenomenon, but I can't really tell.
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Jul 10, 2023 04:03
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it kicked off during the fallen's initial rebellion against ultima, so a long long time. it apparently started to accelerate significantly over the last several decades though, going from "hm, that's a troubling phenomenon" to "oh gently caress oh gently caress all the food and shelter are gone." how relevant!
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Jul 10, 2023 04:07
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Harrow posted:Something I might not have caught: how long has the Blight been a thing? It seems like it's spreading really quickly and is a relatively recent phenomenon, but I can't really tell. From how it is described it's been a thing for a while but it has been getting exponentially worse over time. It was a problem that become a bigger problem and a bigger problem until whoops they lost two Mothercrystals to it and everything was going to poo poo so it's time to abandon treaties and start warring over water.
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Jul 10, 2023 04:08
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Blight has been a thing since magic has. The Ultima civilization hosed their homeland by blighting the poo poo out of it with their rampant magic. My guess is Ultima was going to intentionally blight Valisthea by sucking out all its aether so he can cast his super Raise, and is mad that the humans have figured out how to waste aether casting old fashioned magic.
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Jul 10, 2023 04:28
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SettingSun posted:Blight has been a thing since magic has. The Ultima civilization hosed their homeland by blighting the poo poo out of it with their rampant magic. My guess is Ultima was going to intentionally blight Valisthea by sucking out all its aether so he can cast his super Raise, and is mad that the humans have figured out how to waste aether casting old fashioned magic. Nah, Ultima needed them to be able to cast magic because he needed a Clive to show up. The Eikons are actually chunks of Ultima's power he sent out there under the assumption that something that could hold all of the Eikons could hold Raise.
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Jul 10, 2023 04:31
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I was thrilled to see Wade alive midway into the game and hoped Tyler made it somehow too, despite assuming he was tuned to ash by the events of Phoenix Gate like Murdoch was. Tyler's Vivian entry never actually marked him as "deceased" so I had hoped he made it out somehow. Is that something they may have fixed in the recent update?
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Jul 10, 2023 05:50
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Based on that fact alone I expected to see Tyler somewhere. It seemed too obvious to be a mistake.
SettingSun fucked around with this message at 05:53 on Jul 10, 2023 |
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Jul 10, 2023 05:51
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I also assumed Tyler was alive because Vivian didn't mark him as dead, lmao
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Jul 10, 2023 06:04
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I assumed he was alive because surely being incinerated by Phoenix flames just heals you?
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Jul 10, 2023 06:16
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SyntheticPolygon posted:I assumed he was alive because surely being incinerated by Phoenix flames just heals you? Clive while trying to take down Ultima “Hey Joshua I know you’re trying to help, but could you loving stop?”
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Jul 10, 2023 06:29
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Oxxidation posted:it kicked off during the fallen's initial rebellion against ultima, so a long long time. it apparently started to accelerate significantly over the last several decades though, going from "hm, that's a troubling phenomenon" to "oh gently caress oh gently caress all the food and shelter are gone." how relevant! Vivian's maps keep track of it and watching just that entire island south of Ironholm go from maybe 20% taken to completely Blighted over the timeskip was eyeraising. Also the area Bahamut and Odin were fighting over getting blighted was funny.
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Jul 10, 2023 06:44
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SyntheticPolygon posted:I assumed he was alive because surely being incinerated by Phoenix flames just heals you? Yeah Wade survived the flames and he was 5 feet away from Tyler
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Jul 10, 2023 07:26
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I like the idea of a DLC that takes place before you go to Origin, has Clive eat the Leviathan eikon, and changes the ending. There are other ways you could do DLC for this game, but I feel like that is particularly rich with potential.Bugblatter posted:I feel like square intentionally made the ending ambiguous. More things point toward Clive being dead, but enough points to him being alive and they don’t make anything explicit that debate was inevitable. Sometimes that’s a useful tool to convey meaning, but I can’t really see how the ambiguity helps the themes in this case. Which makes it seems like they were spurring debate for the sake of debate, which is pretty unsatisfying. Another reason that the ending kinda sucks is that the debate just isn't all that interesting. When you really break it down, the entire debate is basically that the sequence pretty clearly indicates that he died against the idea that it's not definitive that he died and also him dying would be tremendously bad writing.
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Jul 10, 2023 09:56
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SyntheticPolygon posted:I assumed he was alive because surely being incinerated by Phoenix flames just heals you? Phoenix has power over life and death. His fires can destroy just as much as they can mend.
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Jul 10, 2023 10:10
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King of Solomon posted:Another reason that the ending kinda sucks is that the debate just isn't all that interesting. When you really break it down, the entire debate is basically that the sequence pretty clearly indicates that he died against the idea that it's not definitive that he died and also him dying would be tremendously bad writing.  SirSamVimes posted:Phoenix has power over life and death. His fires can destroy just as much as they can mend. Joshua says the phoenix can't bring people back from the dead.
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Jul 10, 2023 10:38
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It is extremely funny that FFXVI can arguably be summed up as "oh hey you thought we were doing Game of Thrones? here's all the staples of Final Fantasy! Crystals! A world of pervasive magic integrated into daily life! All your favorite eikons and monsters! Mentions of airships and lost magitech! See? All the stuff you love! They're bad, literally killing the world, and they all need to be destroyed root and branch so the world can become a normal medieval world." Jetrauben fucked around with this message at 11:34 on Jul 10, 2023 |
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Jul 10, 2023 11:02
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CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:
Maybe he’s just a weak little bitch boy and The Chad Mythos w/ Phoenix power could?
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Jul 10, 2023 12:24
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I hope there's DLC to look at some of the other areas in the phoenix gate, I swear I saw a statue of garuda in the distance in there, I was hoping there's be a cool section devote to each eikon.
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Jul 10, 2023 13:01
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Jetrauben posted:It is extremely funny that FFXVI can arguably be summed up as "oh hey you thought we were doing Game of Thrones? here's all the staples of Final Fantasy! Crystals! A world of pervasive magic integrated into daily life! All your favorite eikons and monsters! Mentions of airships and lost magitech! See? All the stuff you love! FF6 literally ends with magic being removed forever. FF7 is about how commodifying magic is killing the world. FF15 has magic as a rare thing that kills the wielder. This poo poo ain't new.
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Jul 10, 2023 14:25
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FFXII has similar notes, too, with the Occuria being a main reason there's so much magic and magitech in the world. FFXII itself doesn't really depict this directly but knowing what we know about Ivalice's future, we know that the Occuria's control being removed leads to an inevitable decline in which magic becomes much less prominent, magitech disappears, and even many of the non-human species (including moogles) explicitly go extinct. FFVI is definitely the one with the most similar depiction of magic to XVI, though. It might not inevitably destroy the world with its very use like it does in XVI (which is extremely Dark Sun, notably) but it's treated as a weapon of mass destruction and we see it used that way by Kefka. In this case it's less that magic, itself, is inherently bad so much that it's a level of power that can't really exist in the hands of humans without causing destruction. Harrow fucked around with this message at 14:41 on Jul 10, 2023 |
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Jul 10, 2023 14:32
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FF8 doesn't end with magic being destroyed but magic is presented as dangerous and using GF (the only real way to gain true power and which are fueled by magic) literally eats your memories
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Jul 10, 2023 14:38
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But enough about my GF
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Jul 10, 2023 14:51
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I feel like people are confusing "bad writing" with "I didn't like that Clive died" they aren't the same thing!
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Jul 10, 2023 15:00
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gfuel... fuels magic... 📝
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Jul 10, 2023 15:01
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Ibram Gaunt posted:I feel like people are confusing "bad writing" with "I didn't like that Clive died" they aren't the same thing! It goes against all the themes of "choose how to live, not how to die" and also everyone always telling him not to sacrifice himself, but also that's kind of the point of tragedies.
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Jul 10, 2023 15:08
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Ibram Gaunt posted:I feel like people are confusing "bad writing" with "I didn't like that Clive died" they aren't the same thing! the ending feels like it was grafted on from a different draft of the story. it’s abrupt, ill-presented and a structural mismatch with the material before and after. it’s definitely the worst ending in an FF game since 13, mainline or otherwise, and 13 at least had a bad beginning and middle to lessen the sting
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Jul 10, 2023 15:09
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Something interesting about the post-credits scene is that I think it can be read to imply just how vast and complete the destruction of Valisthea's civilization was over the course of FFXVI. We see something that's a record of historical events that people in a world that still looks pre-modern treat not just as ancient history, but as fiction. That implies a couple things: first, that a lot of time has passed, enough that there's little to no material evidence of anything written about in the book; and second, that no other (or very few) written records from the time survived. It's probably not a stretch to say that the events of FFXVI almost literally blasted Valisthea back to the stone age. I'm really curious how many centuries have passed between the ending and the post-credits scene because my guess is "a lot."
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Jul 10, 2023 15:12
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Oxxidation posted:the ending feels like it was grafted on from a different draft of the story. it’s abrupt, ill-presented and a structural mismatch with the material before and after. it’s definitely the worst ending in an FF game since 13, mainline or otherwise, and 13 at least had a bad beginning and middle to lessen the sting I personally really love the ending, and am in Clive Lives territory, but wasn’t there a recent interview with Yoshi-P that stated it was one of the first things they came up with? Or the ambiguous nature of the it?
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Jul 10, 2023 15:13
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HD DAD posted:I personally really love the ending, and am in Clive Lives territory, but wasn’t there a recent interview with Yoshi-P that stated it was one of the first things they came up with? Or the ambiguous nature of the it? if that’s true then we’re looking at a Homestuck situation, which is even worse
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Jul 10, 2023 15:14
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Clarste posted:It goes against all the themes of "choose how to live, not how to die" and also everyone always telling him not to sacrifice himself, but also that's kind of the point of tragedies. I think there's a difference between pointlessly/recklessly throwing your life away, and making the ultimate sacrifice to save the world.
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Jul 10, 2023 15:16
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Ibram Gaunt posted:I think there's a difference between pointlessly/recklessly throwing your life away, and making the ultimate sacrifice to save the world. not in this case, because everyone around Clive repeatedly told him that the righteousness of his cause didn’t justify dying for it. then he died for it.
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Jul 10, 2023 15:19
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I think it's understandable that it can feel jarring to have the main character be told, for dozens of hours and by many different loved ones, "remember you have to save yourself, too" only for the ending to go "welp, just didn't work out that way." That's not necessarily saying it's bad writing but it does feel kind of like that arc went nowhere as a result.
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Jul 10, 2023 15:19
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Oxxidation posted:not in this case, because everyone around Clive repeatedly told him that the righteousness of his cause didn’t justify dying for it. then he died for it. I feel like that's sort of thrown out the window where instead of freeing slaves or killing crystals he's face to face with essentially God.
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Jul 10, 2023 15:21
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Before you go on the final mission, it sure felt like everyone was already mourning Clive's inevitable death. It didn't surprise me at all, and felt perfectly in line with the themes of the rest of the game. The first Cid sacrificed himself to end the tyranny of the crystals, and so did the second one. There were never any sidequests where someone's sacrifice to save others was regarded as foolish and pointless. It's sad, but sometimes necessary in order to build a better world, consistently.
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Jul 10, 2023 15:21
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Knew what was gonna happen the second they didn't take Torgal lol
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Jul 10, 2023 15:23
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Humanity dying on their own terms was (the original) Cid's entire philosophy and Clive repeats that mantra when he blows up the Origin crystal. It starts with Clive, a choice he made.
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Jul 10, 2023 15:35
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ImpAtom posted:FF6 literally ends with magic being removed forever. FF7 is about how commodifying magic is killing the world. FF15 has magic as a rare thing that kills the wielder. This poo poo ain't new. I thought only the ring in FF15 killed the wielder, not that magic itself was the problem.
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Jul 10, 2023 15:36
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Yeah as I understand it in XV the idea is that only the certain bloodlines can use magic naturally (the Lucian one being one of them) but people who can use magic can grant their power to others (which is how Noctis’s friends can use magic). The Ring of the Lucii specifically will kill or maim anyone who uses it except for a Lucian king like Noctis. Using magic isn’t inherently dangerous, it’s just limited to very few people and anyone else messing with magical artifacts is in trouble.
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Jul 10, 2023 15:50
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