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JohnKilltrane posted:And so we discover the reason for harvesting the Khaydarin Crystals last mission: Apparently transporting the Overmind between worlds is an ordeal. I guess the idea is that the Overmind is a sufficiently powerful force that only a few places are capable of bearing its psionic weight, so to speak? This raises the question, though: Is the Overmind even on Char? Could it still be back on Zerus, directing its Swarm from across the galaxy? The speed with which it seems to plan to reach Aiur suggests the former, but you never know. I always figured that the Overmind was distributed throughout the swarm, and it only took physical form
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Jul 10, 2023 19:38
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Selendis is cool.
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Jul 10, 2023 19:53
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inflatablefish posted:I always figured that the Overmind was distributed throughout the swarm, and it only took physical form Given cerebrates and overlords exist, I imagine there's some benefit to having a primary physical form that acts as the processing hub for all the highest-level Overmind stuff that emerges out of the collective. There is no "
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Jul 10, 2023 19:54
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Lorepost: Protoss Backstory A reminder that for the loreposts I’m mostly doing a policy of “Lore as it was in ‘98.” Quite a lot of what follows has been retconned, but for the purposes of our LP it’s still canon. The Xel'Naga As we established in the Zerg backstory, the Xel'Naga were a race of ancient aliens who roamed the galaxy, seeding worlds with life and tinkering with the results to try to create an ideal lifeform as part of their unending quest to master the genetic sciences. Untold species were discovered, considered, and discarded as imperfect before they came upon a jungle world called Aiur. There they discovered a species that was strong, agile, intelligent, and lived together in thriving, co-operative tribes. Most importantly, this species had incredible psionic ability. They came to it naturally, with even the least gifted among them instinctively developing telepathic links. The Xel'Naga were all about this, and decided this was the pinnacle of their research. They settled down to observe the species, and called them the Protoss, which means "Firstborn" (...in Greek. Is that significant? Did the Macedonians take to the stars? Xel'Naga is almost an anagram of Alex, after all…). As the Xel'Naga observed, the Protoss made good on their potential. After only a few thousand years they came to conquer all of Aiur, with their tribes uniting under a centralized government. They thought good thoughts, fought good fights, and their art was the prettiest art of all the art. The Xel'Naga were thrilled. So thrilled, in fact, that they decided the time had come to reveal themselves to their creation to allow for even more direct observation. The Xel'Naga landed on Aiur, introduced themselves, and integrated themselves into Protoss society (and in fact, based on what the Overmind said, it's likely the spot where they first made planetfall is where the Temple was built. You know, the one we just burned down).  An unknown artist's interpretation of Aiur. The Protoss, for their part, took this relatively in stride. They were overjoyed to meet their creators and their lust for knowledge nearly matched the Xel'Naga. So the two species lived together in harmony, with the Protoss learning all they could and having their development massively bootstrapped as a result. Predictably, this did not last. The Protoss wanted more and more knowledge. The tribes began to specialize, devoting themselves to specific pursuits, and the Protoss within the tribes became more concerned with the personal glory that came with a new breakthrough than with helping the greater whole. Partnership became rivalry, rivalry became enmity, and soon the Protoss were severing their telepathic link with one another out of fear and suspicion. The Xel'Naga were dismayed as the Protoss became more and more consumed by ego but the breaking of their communal bond was the last straw. The Xel'Naga decided that they'd tainted the Protoss by living among them, packed up shop, and tried to leave. The Protoss did not take this well and lashed out at the Xel'Naga, murdering quite a few of them as they fled. The majority survived, however, and went on to continue their grand experiment, culminating of course in their discovery of the Zerg. (Actually I never connected these dots before but come to think of it the Xel'Naga creating the Overmind is really just them saying "Okay, what if we took something like the Protoss' link except there's no way to opt out?") With the Xel'Naga gone, the Protoss turned on one another instead. I guess a downside to being telepathically linked to everyone around you is that you never really develop the ability to imagine what other people feel like, because you already know. So when they dissolved their link, they basically became a species incapable of empathy, each Protoss not knowing anything beyond their own individual anger and resentment. They plunged into a brutal, bloody civil war that would span centuries, called the Aeon of Strife. Khas, Adun, and the Dark Templar. After hundreds of years of war that brought stagnation, regression, and almost oblivion to the Protoss, a figure emerged. His name has been lost to the ages but he would bear the title “Khas,” or “He Who Brings Order.” Uncovering the rich bounty of Khaydarin Crystals the Xel’Naga had, in their haste, left behind, he experimented with them and soon re-discovered his race’s psionic abilities. More importantly, he also discovered that they had never lost these abilities - they had simply been forgotten, like a muscle atrophied from disuse. Khas began a movement among the young Protoss that preached telepathic reunion as the only way to end the constant warring. He developed a philosophy of psychic progression that emphasized an abandonment of ego and selfless dedication to the greater whole, called the Khala, or “Path of Ascension.” Over time, more and more Protoss would submit themselves to this philosophy until it became ubiquitous, bringing an end to the war. The Protoss were one again, sharing a telepathic link through the Khala.  Artwork from the manual. I think it's supposed to represent a Protoss becoming a devotee of the Khala? It kinda makes me think of the WC2 manual art of Gul'Dan "submitting" to Orgrim Doomhammer tbh Khas also instituted a caste system, likely in the hopes that it would undermine the strict tribalism of the Protoss by forcing different tribes to work together. The first caste was the Judicators. Administrators, leaders, and judges, the highest ranking among them would form the Conclave, the council that governed the Protoss. The second caste was the Khalai. The Khalai comprised the majority of Protoss and consisted of scientists, artists, industrialists, engineers, and workers. Finally, there was the Templar caste. The warrior caste, the Templar were charged with the defense of the Protoss people (get it, because the Khala is like a religion, so the warriors are like the Templar Knights). For the most part, this worked, and over time duty and loyalty to one’s caste began to supercede duty and loyalty to one’s tribe. I said the Khala became ubiquitous, but really it became near-ubiquitous. There were a few holdouts - Protoss who were concerned that joining with the collective mind would result in the loss of their individuality. At first, the Conclave were content to share a wary co-existence with these holdouts, although they took great pains to keep the existence of these “Dark Templar,” or “Shadow Hunters,” hidden from the general population. As the centuries wore on, however, the Conclave became increasingly afraid that those who valued their individuality so highly could plunge the race back into another war, so they ordered the Templar to exterminate them. The leader of the Templar, Adun, couldn’t bring himself to destroy the Dark Templar, though. He disagreed with the Conclave and felt that it would be better to try to convert them to the Khala than kill them. So he helped to hide them away, reported their destruction, and in secret taught the Dark Templar how to access and channel their psionic powers. Unfortunately, having access to these powers but not the discipline of the Khala led to the Dark Templar being overwhelmed, creating huge psychic storms all across Aiur, to the Conclave’s chagrin. The Conclave were furious at Adun’s deception, but it left them in a bit of a pickle - they couldn’t formally discipline him for it without officially acknowledging the existence of the Shadow Hunters, so instead they exiled the Dark Templar in secret. Herded them all up, loaded them onto the wreckage of a Xel’Naga worldship, and blasted them off into the great unknown. Hey, that’s… That’s basically how the Terran colonists came to the Koprulu sector, too. The Dae’Uhl and the Terrans Anyway, aside from the drama with the Dark Templar, the Khala did the trick. The Protoss, fully united, began a new era of development and expansion, building an interstellar empire that, at its peak, counted hundreds of systems within its fold. They encountered all sorts of strange and fantastic alien races, but mindful of the mistakes of the Xel’Naga, adopted a strict policy against direct intervention, called the Dae’Uhl, which means This was still their policy when the Terrans first entered the sector. The Protoss watched, and though they were alarmed with the speed at which the Terrans grew, going from crash-landing to colonizing a dozen worlds and sucking them dry of resources within a few mere centuries, they were bound by the Dae’Uhl to avoid direct intervention. That all changed when one day High Templar Tassadar and his expeditionary fleet, while scouting and observing a new Terran colony, noted the existence of strange living probes. These probes were brought back to Aiur to be analyzed and dissected, where the Protoss made an alarming discovery: the probes reacted to the Khaydarin Crystals, something that could only be possible for one that had been touched by the Xel’Naga. Curiosity turned to alarm as the Protoss realized that these probes could represent an existential threat to the sector. Tassadar and the Templar argued that the Dae’Uhl compelled them to protect the wayward Terrans from this threat; they were overruled by the Conclave who declared that the Terrans may already be infested and would need to be destroyed as well. A mighty fleet of Protoss warships was gathered and placed under the command of Tassadar for the purpose of eliminating this threat. When Tassadar arrived at the system where the probes had been found, Chau Sara, he found that it had already been compromised. He and his fleet annihilated all life from orbit. He moved on to Mar Sara where he found the same thing. Again the planet was glassed, but Tassadar began to feel more and more uncomfortable with his orders. After wiping out Antiga, Tassadar’s doubts about the morality of his actions were reaffirmed, and he resolved to find a way to eradicate the Zerg without harming the Terrans. To this end, he chose to engage the Zerg in direct combat at Tarsonis instead of wiping out the planet from orbit. Even when this failed, he eschewed his genocidal orders and instead withdrew his fleet, to watch and consider the best course of action. Now Aiur is in ruins, the Overmind has been made manifest, and the Conclave place the blame at Tassadar’s feet. He has been removed from office, and a new Executor has been appointed to take his place…  Fan art of Protoss Zealots and Dragoons fighting the Zerg by u/void032art on reddit Trivia: Many people believe the Protoss were inspired by the Eldar from Warhammer 40K. In fact, the Protoss were inspired by a well-known scifi archetype, but not the Eldar, with whom their similarities are rather specious. “Hmm. Predator?” you might be thinking. Nope. Even more well-known than that. Think - what’s the most basic scifi archetype of them all? The Protoss were influenced by The Grey, aka Roswell Aliens. The general idea for the Zealot was “What if we took Roswell and stretched him out and made him big enough and menacing enough for big armour and wicked blades?” Or, if you don’t want my summary, you can read more in an interview with Samwise Didier here: https://web.archive.org/web/20170429042311/https://starcraft.com/en-us/articles/20719767 I even seem to recall something about the Protoss having some sort of abduction mechanic in the earliest stages of game design, but I can’t find a source for that so it may just be the product of my overactive imagination. In any case, people are correct in assuming that Protoss are inspired by a scifi squad-based turn-based tactics game from the early 90s about humanity fighting aliens, they’ve just got the wrong one and should be thinking X-COM, not Warhammer (I’m mostly kidding; there’s no explicit declaration that X-COM was an influence on SC).  Could the Khala-less Dark Templar agenda be trying to brainwash Protoss youth into thinking this was their ancestor? It’s also worth noting that there’s a lot of ways in which Protoss fluff interacts with their mechanics, but instead of covering them here I’ll note them when we come across them in the updates. Or maybe give them their own post. Hmm. I will think on this. ************** Voting is still open! Right now it's neck and neck with 11 votes for Artanis, 12 for Selendis, and 2 for Steve/Erwin/Other Write-in. The deadline is... uh, whenever I post the next update, I guess. Probably Wednesday. JohnKilltrane fucked around with this message at 23:39 on Jul 10, 2023 |
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Jul 10, 2023 23:37
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JohnKilltrane posted:(Actually I never connected these dots before but come to think of it the Xel'Naga creating the Overmind is really just them saying "Okay, what if we took something like the Protoss' link except there's no way to opt out?") I always figured this was what Purity Of Essence was about. The protoss' psionic abilities making them essentially wizards marked them out as the peak of biological ability - the purity of form - but when they didn't prove able to hold together as a society the Xel'Naga took what they thought was missing and gave it to a species that would be capable of absorbing that peak form into their own biology, making the true ultimate life form.
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Jul 10, 2023 23:54
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JohnKilltrane posted:Many people believe the Protoss were inspired by the Eldar from Warhammer 40K. In fact, the Protoss were inspired by a well-known scifi archetype, but not the Eldar, with whom their similarities are rather specious. “Hmm. Predator?” you might be thinking. Nope. Even more well-known than that. Think - what’s the most basic scifi archetype of them all? Yep, guilty as charged. Terrans are Space Marines, Zerg are Tyranids, and the Protoss are Eldar (or whatever trademarkable name they're using now). It's nice to see that I was wrong and there was more to it. And yeah, personality-wise, the Protoss aren't Eldar, aside from the "superior psionic alien" schtick, which is a lot more common than you'd think. And the Dark Templar aren't Dark Eldar either. I like this story. Is the retconned version objectively worse than this?
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Jul 11, 2023 00:04
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I would like to vote for Artanis
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Jul 11, 2023 00:09
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JohnKilltrane posted:It’s also worth noting that there’s a lot of ways in which Protoss fluff interacts with their mechanics, but instead of covering them here I’ll note them when we come across them in the updates. Or maybe give them their own post. Hmm. I will think on this. Having read what the manual said about Protoss logistics (yes, it goes into this) before playing them, the actual Protoss campaign was very confusing.
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Jul 11, 2023 00:11
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Put me down for Artanis too, I like the idea of Selendis for the expansion better honestly.
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Jul 11, 2023 00:11
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GunnerJ posted:Having read what the manual said about Protoss logistics (yes, it goes into this) before playing them, the actual Protoss campaign was very confusing. Short version, according to the manual everything in Protoss logistics depends directly on Aiur. The same Aiur that is currently Zerg central. Presumably they activated backup forge planets but it would explain why the Overmind taking over the capital planet is such a crippling blow to the Protoss.
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Jul 11, 2023 00:51
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The Zerg haven't taken Aiur yet. They've invaded in force, for sure, and clearly claimed territory, but the Protoss still hold most of the planet. For now.
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Jul 11, 2023 01:19
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Worth to mention that WoW draenei slowly evolved from "natives of Outland" (retconned into "Lost Ones") to "literally fantasy Protoss", including colour palette of Lightforged draenei. Just replace Swarm with Burning Legion.
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Jul 11, 2023 01:36
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Szarrukin posted:Worth to mention that WoW draenei slowly evolved from "natives of Outland" (retconned into "Lost Ones") to "literally fantasy Protoss", including colour palette of Lightforged draenei. Just replace Swarm with Burning Legion. Could be me misremembering, but weren't they originally like proto-orcs or something in tft?
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Jul 11, 2023 04:03
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FoolyCharged posted:Could be me misremembering, but weren't they originally like proto-orcs or something in tft? Yes.
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Jul 11, 2023 04:17
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Gotta go with Artanis as our Executor for the base game. I never made the Protoss = Greys connection until now, but it does make perfect sense. There are still some parallels with the Eldar however, specifically them being the favored children of a precursor race that was eventually wiped out by its own hubris. Though I'm not sure if that part of Eldar lore had even been written at the time the game released. Bloody Pom fucked around with this message at 04:50 on Jul 11, 2023 |
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Jul 11, 2023 04:46
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+1 for Artanis
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Jul 11, 2023 04:54
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Artanis
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Jul 11, 2023 07:01
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Selendis It's hard to attribute the Protoss's origins to a single influence; the developers did a great job at mashing up sci-fi tropes into three distinct factions, to the point that it's very difficult to think of a fourth faction concept that wouldn't have significant thematic, aesthetic and strategic overlaps with the other three.
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Jul 11, 2023 10:58
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YaketySass posted:It's hard to attribute the Protoss's origins to a single influence; the developers did a great job at mashing up sci-fi tropes into three distinct factions, to the point that it's very difficult to think of a fourth faction concept that wouldn't have significant thematic, aesthetic and strategic overlaps with the other three. Absolutely. If you read the interview posted above, Samwise talks about the kind of improvised, "hey you know what would be cool," "why not" attitude towards designing StarCraft and I think that's what ends up giving the game a lot of its charm - it's just a bunch of nerds taking things they liked from sci-fi movies and mashing them together. The impetus behind the Dark Templar was literally just "Dude, what if the Protoss had ninjas?" He doesn't talk about the Zealot, but I like to imagine the design for the Zealot going something like "Dude, these guys are super advanced, right? What if they're, like, so advanced that their basic footsoldiers have lightsabers?" "Dude! But what if they each have two lightsabers?" "Dude! But what if instead of holding them, the lightsabers are wristblades that come out their arms like some kind of alien Jedi Wolverine?" "Duuuuude."
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Jul 11, 2023 12:45
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Artanis. I always thought the Protoss/Zerg were based in part on the two main alien races in Animorphs, hoofed mouthless techno-racists versus infesting slugs. Guess they're all drawing from the same well since the timing doesn't really line up.
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Jul 11, 2023 13:05
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JohnKilltrane posted:(...in Greek. Is that significant? Did the Macedonians take to the stars? Xel'Naga is almost an anagram of Alex, after all…). i wouldn't be the slightest bit surprised if this turned out to be a plot point in sc2
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Jul 11, 2023 13:06
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redleader posted:i wouldn't be the slightest bit surprised if this turned out to be a plot point in sc2 
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Jul 11, 2023 13:29
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Oh come now. SIGSEGV had it right, almost. The correct nominee is Matt Horner, and I'm not afraid to say it, even if you've all gone mad.
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Jul 11, 2023 15:43
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Octatonic posted:Oh come now. SIGSEGV had it right, almost. The correct nominee is Matt Horner, and I'm not afraid to say it, even if you've all gone mad. You know, it occurs to me that with the ethically questionable miracle of AI voice acting, the dream of "StarCraft but everyone is Matt Horner" is now possible.
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Jul 11, 2023 17:02
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redleader posted:i wouldn't be the slightest bit surprised if this turned out to be a plot point in sc2 On this specific point, of "protoss" being Greek for "firstborn," it's no great spoiler to say that they mostly call themselves the Firstborn in their campaign in SC2 so "Protoss" might just be a term we're getting as a convenient translation in-universe. Like I imagine after first contact somebody preparing the report telling their buddy, "They call themselves the Firstborn, but that might get confusing so I'm gonna go with this..." and it stuck.
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Jul 11, 2023 17:34
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disposablewords posted:On this specific point, of "protoss" being Greek for "firstborn," it's no great spoiler to say that they mostly call themselves the Firstborn in their campaign in SC2 so "Protoss" might just be a term we're getting as a convenient translation in-universe. Like I imagine after first contact somebody preparing the report telling their buddy, "They call themselves the Firstborn, but that might get confusing so I'm gonna go with this..." and it stuck.
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Jul 11, 2023 17:47
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disposablewords posted:On this specific point, of "protoss" being Greek for "firstborn," it's no great spoiler to say that they mostly call themselves the Firstborn in their campaign in SC2 so "Protoss" might just be a term we're getting as a convenient translation in-universe. Like I imagine after first contact somebody preparing the report telling their buddy, "They call themselves the Firstborn, but that might get confusing so I'm gonna go with this..." and it stuck. Translating a species' name for themselves into Greek and claiming it's "more convenient" is exactly the kind of behavior I'd expect from someone who was a Classics major but never got to do anything with it.
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Jul 11, 2023 18:20
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Lemniscate Blue posted:Translating a species' name for themselves into Greek and claiming it's "more convenient" is exactly the kind of behavior I'd expect from someone who was a Classics major but never got to do anything with it. Maybe the dude who first translated their language just happened to be Greek? Not that Starcraft has ever entertained the idea that people might speak any language besides English.
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Jul 11, 2023 18:22
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Cythereal posted:Maybe the dude who first translated their language just happened to be Greek? Fair point, I was thinking Ancient Greek because of my interactions with Classics majors. Although given their depiction of Terran society, I don't know what's likely to be more rare: native Greek speakers or Classics majors.
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Jul 11, 2023 18:35
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Lemniscate Blue posted:Fair point, I was thinking Ancient Greek because of my interactions with Classics majors. Hey we've got both kinds of classics in this society. Country and Western.
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Jul 11, 2023 19:13
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Goku is always an option. Also, I'd swear I remember the manual (maybe the brood war manual) saying that protoss have tendrils on the back of their head that enables their psychich powers. The Dark Templars cut them off or something which permamently cuts them off telepathically from other Protoss.
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Jul 11, 2023 20:33
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We're the Good Old Raynor's Raiders Boys Band from Mar Sara.
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Jul 11, 2023 20:35
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CheeseThief posted:Also, I'd swear I remember the manual (maybe the brood war manual) saying that protoss have tendrils on the back of their head that enables their psychich powers. The Dark Templars cut them off or something which permamently cuts them off telepathically from other Protoss. Yup. Those giant braids that look like bundles of cords are their psychic brain extensions.
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Jul 11, 2023 20:36
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Basically Avatar ponytails but before Avatar.
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Jul 11, 2023 21:03
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Being a protoss barber is not a very good career choice.
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Jul 11, 2023 21:52
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Poil posted:Being a protoss barber is not a very good career choice. *yet
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Jul 11, 2023 23:13
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I never realised how powerful Dark Swarm was in this game. I found it so hard to micro things in the SC games that I rarely bothered as a lad. Also, still depressed that the Scout is so crap. I find it sad that there's a unit that essentially has no roll in PvsT, PvsZ or PvsP. Cythereal posted:Maybe the dude who first translated their language just happened to be Greek? That's not fair. Firstly, the games, even SC1, have been translated into a bunch of languages. Also, I'm fairly sure that some gratuitous Protoss gets dropped into a few conversations.
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Jul 12, 2023 01:17
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Cythereal posted:Maybe the dude who first translated their language just happened to be Greek? Hey! There’s people with Russian accents!
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Jul 12, 2023 03:12
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Cythereal posted:Maybe the dude who first translated their language just happened to be Greek? Yeah it's an interesting thing. According to the Terran backstory, the UPL (aka Earth) outlawed every language but English, so the "everyone speaks English" is deliberate. Which really only lends more credence to the Xel'Naga = Alexander the Great theory.
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Jul 12, 2023 04:00
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On a whim, I started looking at Mass Recall again. Somehow, I forgot that using the SC2 engine, Mass Recall made a functional third-person shooter out of one of the dungeon maps.
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Jul 12, 2023 19:31
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