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honestly i think atelier lost a ton in the shift to not having time limits. i know it bugs some people but i think its fine for a game to not be for everyone, and i think they added a ton to the sense of growth, trial, and growth. without them success is basically inevitable and all content will be seen. with them theres the sense that you are actually fumbling slightly and finding out how to succeed, which fits with the growing youth theme. i like the mysterious and ryza games well enough but they lack the spark i got from arland and dusk.
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Jul 12, 2023 04:41
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loving hate wiegraf. horrible fight
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Jul 12, 2023 04:48
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Endorph posted:honestly i think atelier lost a ton in the shift to not having time limits. i know it bugs some people but i think its fine for a game to not be for everyone, and i think they added a ton to the sense of growth, trial, and growth. without them success is basically inevitable and all content will be seen. with them theres the sense that you are actually fumbling slightly and finding out how to succeed, which fits with the growing youth theme. i like the mysterious and ryza games well enough but they lack the spark i got from arland and dusk. I’m torn between wanting to respect the unique design of the earlier games, that theming, etc…and just plain not enjoying the tension. I go to Atelier for cosiness above all else and the tension worked directly to oppose that. Which is an interesting contrast with Dragon Star Varnir which has a time limit too, but I think I actually like it there? The tone is horror, dark magic, and the body horror of an alien parasite growing in you that will burst out from the inside, and that, well, the time limit tension adds to the horror.
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Jul 12, 2023 04:51
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i love how hard potionomics went on the time limits, sure sure this may look like a nice chill game but no this is a stressful alchemy business simulator and you are going to feel like you are doing poo poo wrong constantly
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Jul 12, 2023 04:54
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seriously like. why is wiegraf like this. why are the previous several maps absolutely no trouble at all and then this one is literally just, near impossible. what the gently caress.
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Jul 12, 2023 04:55
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The Colonel posted:seriously like. why is wiegraf like this. why are the previous several maps absolutely no trouble at all and then this one is literally just, near impossible. what the gently caress. Yeah, it's a really badly designed fight.
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Jul 12, 2023 05:00
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i think what absolutely fucks me up about it isn't even how hard it is. like it's hard, it is way too bullshit hard, it is way too maddeningly bullshit hard for something you'd be permanently stuck in if you didn't keep an extra save file. but also it has insanely long unskippable dialog and a second phase that is even more trying of your patience, after the first phase that is already potentially impossible if you didn't have some way to auto mitigate or heal ramza specifically. how did any of that get okayed. it's like the perfect combination of awful things to completely ruin the game for someone for absolutely no reason
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Jul 12, 2023 05:06
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The Colonel posted:really wonder if an fft remaster would be another port of wotl with new sprites or they'd do the tactics ogre thing and wholly rebalance the game again. would be neat if they did a thing where you can choose between wotl and some weird new wotl redux thing, i'd play a version of wotl i can play in japanese and also not have the awful slowdown poo poo with cause nobody made a fix for the jp version that actually works It's still insane the slowdown was something they put in purposefully.
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Jul 12, 2023 05:06
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Favorite Wiegraf duel fact: if you wear the robe that makes you immune to holy damage Wiegraf will never use his bullshit sword skills. His sword skills do not deal holy damage. Absolutely miserable fight.
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Jul 12, 2023 05:12
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Oh, and the following battle can potentially end in your loss before you can take an action. Fun times in chapter 3.
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Jul 12, 2023 05:13
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Schwarzwald posted:Favorite Wiegraf duel fact: if you wear the robe that makes you immune to holy damage Wiegraf will never use his bullshit sword skills. His sword skills do not deal holy damage. As a kid, it was Dorter or whatever its called that hosed me up. The one with the two towers and the archers and the priest was it? Kid me was dumb and that crushed me over and over.
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Jul 12, 2023 05:18
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unattended spaghetti posted:Goons, I love a good dungeon. In the spirit of that, what are your favorite dungeons of all time? Giruvegan in FFXII, from the Water Steps to the very reaches of the Great Crystal. Yes, the no map gimmick is frustrating but the layout, setting and levels of secrets therein is top notch. Arivia fucked around with this message at 05:31 on Jul 12, 2023 |
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Jul 12, 2023 05:29
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unattended spaghetti posted:Goons, I love a good dungeon. In the spirit of that, what are your favorite dungeons of all time? ku'lero temple from crosscode. i'm a fan of maximalist game design, and ku'lero is simply the most
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Jul 12, 2023 05:42
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Escha & Logy is my favorite Atelier game. I think other games do some things better but I think it does pretty much everything good and it has what is probably the most accessible time limit in that it is there and something to consider but you have a ton of spare time and the game gives you free time and do stuff you may have missed.
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Jul 12, 2023 05:48
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tried the trick where you just make ramza yell at himself over and over and it was riskier since i didnt have the specific robe but i managed an attempt where he didnt land two consecutive magic criticals on ramza and then i nuked him with balls
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Jul 12, 2023 05:49
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anyway i was always curious about it since i generally saw it brought up in discussion that the scary demon portal rock stuff kinda overrides all the game's more political outlines. i think what actually gets me about those is that like, nah the magic demon rocks are fine, i'm cool with keeping those, it's not really interrupting a political masterpiece. but the whole thing of replacing actual characters with big cackling evil demon guys who don't possess any actual relation or dynamic with your cast that they previously possessed, having all those personality traits replaced with "did you know that humanity is dumb... and it needs religion to trick it!" is kinda weak. demon wiegraf is just kinda a much less climactic fight for it, him not really being the same character just kinda makes it way less emotionally charged. which is funny because wiegraf already feels pretty underwritten, but at least i could kinda feel for what dynamic there was going on between him and ramza before. at the end he's so not a character that the only thing i can feel about him is drat bro, your boss fight sucks
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Jul 12, 2023 06:05
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The Colonel posted:seriously like. why is wiegraf like this. why are the previous several maps absolutely no trouble at all and then this one is literally just, near impossible. what the gently caress. that's only the second worst fight in the game, too
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Jul 12, 2023 06:17
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Yeah the worst fight comes immediately after it 
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Jul 12, 2023 06:25
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StrixNebulosa posted:also the STD joke is godawful, like so bad I want to patch the game to fix it) I have no idea why the localisers did that, it's so rude.
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Jul 12, 2023 06:30
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NISA loved inserting dumb jokes like that back then, it sucked
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Jul 12, 2023 06:31
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The Colonel posted:anyway i was always curious about it since i generally saw it brought up in discussion that the scary demon portal rock stuff kinda overrides all the game's more political outlines. i think what actually gets me about those is that like, nah the magic demon rocks are fine, i'm cool with keeping those, it's not really interrupting a political masterpiece. but the whole thing of replacing actual characters with big cackling evil demon guys who don't possess any actual relation or dynamic with your cast that they previously possessed, having all those personality traits replaced with "did you know that humanity is dumb... and it needs religion to trick it!" is kinda weak. demon wiegraf is just kinda a much less climactic fight for it, him not really being the same character just kinda makes it way less emotionally charged. which is funny because wiegraf already feels pretty underwritten, but at least i could kinda feel for what dynamic there was going on between him and ramza before. at the end he's so not a character that the only thing i can feel about him is drat bro, your boss fight sucks With Weigraf I can kind of see them trying to have the magic rocks represent the endpoint of the corruption of power? Taking up the rock represents the point where you just stop caring completely and just start the pure pursuit of power, serving as the fourth point on Weigraf's trajectory through that arc. (Sand Rat Cellar, after Miluda's death, with the Church, magic rock.) So the scene at the end of chapter 3 where someone uses a rock without turning into a demon is because she wanted power but not for the sake of power alone, and one character pursuing power but never taking up a rock represents him never entirely losing his ideals. ...now that I'm writing that out, I think that might actually really be what they were going for? Those last two things feel like a decently convincing case to me. It's definitely clumsy, though.
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Jul 12, 2023 06:50
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Endorph posted:NISA loved inserting dumb jokes like that back then, it sucked I genuinely think it is because of Working Designs. It's in the exact right time frame for (especially for RPG translators) that style of translation to still have a hold and "Esty Dee" is exactly the kind of joke WD would make.
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Jul 12, 2023 06:53
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I don’t know how close the translation for TitS is but it’s pretty obvious the translators got to have fun with the text for if you check chests again, since there’s some Western-only references and jokes in those (ie a chest saying I AM ERROR).
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Jul 12, 2023 07:05
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https://twitter.com/sting_pr/status/1679007687294500864 hd port of riviera: the promised land teased
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Jul 12, 2023 07:06
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The chests are all identical "this chest is empty" messages in Japanese iirc. The translators just noticed that they were all technically different text strings and decided to have fun with it.
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Jul 12, 2023 07:07
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Clarste posted:The chests are all identical "this chest is empty" messages in Japanese iirc. The translators just noticed that they were all technically different text strings and decided to have fun with it. I’m glad. Translators having fun when it’s not detrimental to the work is good poo poo.
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Jul 12, 2023 07:08
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i can see the ideas of how wiegraf's arc leads along there and there's an idea to it that could be interesting, but unfortunately wiegraf is just kinda too boring in actual execution to make any of it work. kind of a problem that, all of the corpse brigade had.
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Jul 12, 2023 07:08
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Arivia posted:I’m glad. Translators having fun when it’s not detrimental to the work is good poo poo. The feature is in SC, 3rd, Zero and Azure too. Sadly by the time of the Cold Steel games it's gone, with the brief exception of trial chests in Cold Steel 2 if you don't have the right party with you.
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Jul 12, 2023 07:13
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Endorph posted:https://twitter.com/sting_pr/status/1679007687294500864 My favorite sting game I am loving stoked
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Jul 12, 2023 07:14
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I Don’t blame translators for not putting in extra work for a bunch of additional lines that weren’t in the original game.
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Jul 12, 2023 07:16
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SyntheticPolygon posted:I Don’t blame translators for not putting in extra work for a bunch of additional lines that weren’t in the original game. It's not that they stopped because the translators didn't want to put in extra work, but because chests became uninteractable after you've opened them starting in Cold Steel
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Jul 12, 2023 07:18
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yeah the sky games had the chests set up like that but they werent designed like that in the crossbell and erebonia games at all, especially in the latter's case and, tbh, the jokes in the crossbell games suck and are trying way too hard. i do not want lame police brutality jokes. the sky jokes were decently clever and were clearly dicking around, and the ones at the end of sky 3 were actually sweet. its fine for a feature to go out on a high note instead of forcing it past its expiration date.
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Jul 12, 2023 07:18
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I'm decently certain the police brutality jokes were taken out of the official release? the Geofront team were like "Yeah we regret them" e: A lot of the chest jokes in Crossbell weren't actually made by the team itself, they opened a form and let people send in their own and that was probably the source of a few of 'em Terper fucked around with this message at 07:22 on Jul 12, 2023 |
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Jul 12, 2023 07:20
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Terper posted:I'm decently certain the police brutality jokes were taken out of the official release? the Geofront team were like "Yeah we regret them"
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Jul 12, 2023 07:21
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Electric Phantasm posted:It's still insane the slowdown was something they put in purposefully. Wait, it was on purpose!?
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Jul 12, 2023 07:22
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Endorph posted:https://twitter.com/sting_pr/status/1679007687294500864
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Jul 12, 2023 07:26
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This is the one I sent in neato
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Jul 12, 2023 07:27
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Andrast posted:Wait, it was on purpose!? Yeah, for whatever reason the animations are intentionally capped at 15 fps.
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Jul 12, 2023 07:31
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TurnipFritter posted:Yeah, for whatever reason the animations are intentionally capped at 15 fps. its because sony demanded you not spin umds too fast and loading the fun effects like that...spun the umds really fast. so to not make soy angry they just deliberately slowed them down and it sucks rear end lol. e: lol im keeping that typo
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Jul 12, 2023 07:43
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There's a bunch of sweet ones where the Geofront team talks about how grateful they are at the end of Azure, too, I wouldn't cut those for the world.
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Jul 12, 2023 07:52
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