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And then Russo gives Jeff Jarrett's "Chosen One" gimmick to HHH And then Vince cuts a promo after buying WCW about how he is h-h-hired? Wait is that really what happened, this Magic 8-Ball must be broken And then Dr. Quarex starts a new page with that
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Jul 12, 2023 02:55
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Ganso Bomb posted:This is the only good use of “escape to win”. You shouldn’t be able to just run for the hills or barely eke your way out, you should have to beat your opponent into mush and walk out freely.
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Jul 12, 2023 03:30
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CombineThresher posted:"What if Dusty could stick to a budget" is something I've pondered more than once as a hinge point. He would also have to not completely run out of ideas and start booking like poo poo too.
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Jul 12, 2023 03:41
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Also it wouldn't have mattered cause it was Crockett that spending money like mad too and he would of kept spending money to keep people signed and live a high life Actually a big what if/sliding door question...What if Cable companies tell WWF to pound bricks when they had Survivor Series go against Starrcadde?
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Jul 12, 2023 04:45
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CombineThresher posted:"What if Dusty could stick to a budget" is something I've pondered more than once as a hinge point. I always laugh to think about Dusty having JCP open up offices in either Dallas/FTW or Houston. Did JCP run either of those markets at that time? No. No, they did not. But Dusty had offices in Texas where he could pretend to be John Wayne or whatever.
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Jul 12, 2023 04:52
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Dawgstar posted:I always laugh to think about Dusty having JCP open up offices in either Dallas/FTW or Houston. Did JCP run either of those markets at that time? No. No, they did not. But Dusty had offices in Texas where he could pretend to be John Wayne or whatever. I think blaming Dusty for those offices is a little silly. It was Jim Crockett's money, he was there in the Dallas office and wanted the company to seem less Southern.
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Jul 12, 2023 05:30
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To a Yankee the idea of moving to Texas making you seem less Southern sounds positively hilarious, but I am sure there is some nuance there I cannot possibly understand.
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Jul 12, 2023 06:04
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Dallas being in Oil country and being a major city meant companies and people people with money saw it as a big city and a place to do business which they wouldn't think about any of the Carolina cities in the 80's
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Jul 12, 2023 06:25
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Yeah Dallas in the 80s was extremely bougie poo poo, the oil and real estate booms brought in a bunch of new-money guys who thought it would be America's next great metropolis. Being in Texas during the peak of Reaganomics certainly didn't hurt.
Benne fucked around with this message at 07:04 on Jul 12, 2023 |
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Jul 12, 2023 07:00
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JJ Dillon mentions in his book that in Florida Dusty had a tendency to book these big arena shows where he could main event and be the big name. They would tank the rest of the territory for months but he didn't care because he got to be the big star. So what Eddie Graham would do whenever he got fed up with Dusty and his ego is he would call up Vince Sr or some of the other big promoters and go "listen, I gotta get rid of Dusty for a bit, can't you call him and tell him a story about how you really need him to come in and help your territory?" and then a few months later he could bring Dusty back to Florida for a big pop.
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Jul 12, 2023 11:53
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MassRafTer posted:I think blaming Dusty for those offices is a little silly. It was Jim Crockett's money, he was there in the Dallas office and wanted the company to seem less Southern. David Crockett puts wanting Texas offices on Dusty because of his fondness for the place and that it was yet another very unneeded expense that JCP was wracking up at the time after the UWF purchase.
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Jul 12, 2023 12:43
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Why does it feel like, maybe to me, Steve Austin as a wrestler doesn't seem to elicit the same comparisons for best wrestler if all time or top ten even? I know he was never the same as an in ring worker after his neck was broken but given his talent even after that as a brawler, his charisma and promo ability, and being the face of the company during its peak and not by being ordained but because he was that good and yet it feels like it's almost taken for granted. I'm trying to not prioritise workrate here as again injury meant he couldn't be Flair or Okada or Misawa but that's not the be all.
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Jul 12, 2023 13:24
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I think part of it is because his peak is pretty brief and was spent wrestling The Undertaker.
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Jul 12, 2023 13:40
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Another factor is the constant hotshotting of the belts in that era. Austin never really had that signature long title reign that guys like Bruno, Hogan, Flair or even Roman today have enjoyed.
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Jul 12, 2023 13:48
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Austin should have kept the belt despite everything Vince threw at him but instead he kept losing it and chasing it.
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Jul 12, 2023 13:56
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Stone Cold is still one of my personal favourites at least. He was an excellent performer, and if it's good matches people want, I always recommend his stuff with HHH, Benoit and especially Angle from 2001. The Angle matches had the disadvantage of occurring during the Invasion, which might be why they get brushed over. Edit: heck, I'd even argue that his WMX-7 match versus The Rock is great, overbooked finish and heel turn aside. Just two great performers doing a top-notch "WWF-style" match.
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Jul 12, 2023 14:12
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his body was totally shot by the time he was a true Superstar but he's probably the best smoke and mirrors guy ever
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Jul 12, 2023 14:16
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I still think the Bret series is Austin's in-ring peak in WWF. Some people think their Survivor Series match is better than the more famous WM 13 epic.
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Jul 12, 2023 15:56
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Benne posted:I still think the Bret series is Austin's in-ring peak in WWF. Some people think their Survivor Series match is better than the more famous WM 13 epic. I agree. I'm not even entirely sure which is better but they're both very good.
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Jul 12, 2023 16:13
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What wrestling trainer do you guys feel is most responsible for churning out the best talent?
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Jul 12, 2023 16:19
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On the topic of what-ifs, What if Raw hadn't moved to TNN in 2000? ECW doesn't get cancelled, maybe they don't go out of business, and a few months later WCW dies and they get an influx of talent that WWE didn't have room for, and are now the solid #2 organization. Also TNA wouldn't exist.
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Jul 12, 2023 16:29
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ECW wasn't making money on the TNN deal and the two companies hated each other near the end. If TNN doesn't get WWF they probably just ride out the contract or just cancel ECW cause the ratings weren't good And even if they still have TV they were so in debt due to poor management that they die anyway
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Jul 12, 2023 16:42
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Super Dan posted:On the topic of what-ifs, What if Raw hadn't moved to TNN in 2000? ECW doesn't get cancelled, maybe they don't go out of business, and a few months later WCW dies and they get an influx of talent that WWE didn't have room for, and are now the solid #2 organization. Also TNA wouldn't exist. ECW probably still gets canceled because their ratings were so far below the network expectation and if they don't they probably still go out of business, but maybe Heyman keeps funding it. But they wouldn't have money to sign anyone, they'd need to cut costs to survive. TNA probably still starts in some form but the other WCW replacement attempts maybe don't get started with a distant #2 still in the market.
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Jul 12, 2023 16:48
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RenegadeStyle1 posted:What wrestling trainer do you guys feel is most responsible for churning out the best talent? Hart Dungeon (depends on era), Monster Factory (Larry Sharpe), NYWC/Mikey Whipweck all have fantastic pedigrees. Harts get a ton of successful people from different eras, Sharpe trained a bunch of remarkable big men like Paul Wight, Bam Bam Bigelow, plus Raven, Chris Candido and D-Lo Brown, Mikey Whipweck trained all the SAT, Trent Baretta, Jay Lethal, Tony Nese, Zack Ryder, Willow Nightingale, and Alex Coughlin
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Jul 12, 2023 18:19
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if verne gagne actually did what's claimed then he's probably the western GOAT. it's hard to beat both flair and steamboat as well as mr. perfect
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Jul 12, 2023 18:33
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MassRafTer posted:ECW probably still gets canceled because their ratings were so far below the network expectation and if they don't they probably still go out of business, but maybe Heyman keeps funding it. But they wouldn't have money to sign anyone, they'd need to cut costs to survive. TNA probably still starts in some form but the other WCW replacement attempts maybe don't get started with a distant #2 still in the market. I do wonder if ECW doesn't die does WWE keep supporting it in secret so they have someone to kill future competitors and also something that can use as developmental on the secret
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Jul 12, 2023 18:55
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Pat Buck has a pretty ridiculous list of names he's trained (MJF, Bowens, Caster, Statlander, Bear Country)
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Jul 12, 2023 19:07
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RenegadeStyle1 posted:What wrestling trainer do you guys feel is most responsible for churning out the best talent? From an absolute standpoint or a general quality standpoint? Shawn Michaels has Bryan Danielson The Monster Factory under Sharpe and Danny Cage have apparently turned out some huge names Create-a-pro seems to be where the younger AEW dudes like Statlander, MJF, and Max Caster come from edit: The Power Plant under Jody Hamilton apparently churned out the entire WCW 1990's low and mid card Defenestrategy fucked around with this message at 19:16 on Jul 12, 2023 |
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Jul 12, 2023 19:11
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RenegadeStyle1 posted:What wrestling trainer do you guys feel is most responsible for churning out the best talent? Hiro Matsuda Trained Hulk Hogan, B. Brian Blair, Bob Orton Jr., Dick Slater, Hercules, Mike Graham, Paul Orndorff, Riki Choshu, Ron Simmons, Scott Casey, Scott Hall, Ted DiBiase and The Great Muta. That's four hall of famers, three fringe possible hall of famers, and a bunch of solid hands. Lid fucked around with this message at 20:06 on Jul 12, 2023 |
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Jul 12, 2023 19:59
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Didn't Johnny Rodz train a lot of notable talent?
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Jul 12, 2023 20:05
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RenegadeStyle1 posted:What wrestling trainer do you guys feel is most responsible for churning out the best talent? In all reality, there's not much more to say about the career of Velazco as a professional wrestler. So what makes this man so special and why is he considered a legend? In 1942, Velazco started a career as a wrestling trainer in Guadalajara, Jalisco in a local "Box y Lucha" gym, and a few years later, on June 20, 1959, he became the head trainer at the gym located at the newly created Arena Coliseo de Guadalajara. He also became a referee in the same arena. Little did he know that after he retired, the list of the wrestlers he trained would be the longest and most illustrious of any trainer ever in the story of professional wrestling all over the world. And in all reality, this list most likely will never be topped. Among those who were trained by Velazco were Atlantis, Alfonso, Apolo and César Dantés, Emilio Charles Sr. and Jr., El Dandy, Irma Aguilar and Irma González, Ringo and Cachorro Mendoza, Satánico, Perro Aguayo, Cavernario Galindo, Angel Blanco Sr. and Jr., Los Hermanos Dinamita (Cien Caras, Máscara Año 2000, Universo 2000), Tarzán López, Javier "Monarca" Cruz, Javier "Américo" Rocca, Gran Markus Jr., Bestia Salvaje, Corazón Salvaje, Mosco de la Merced, Zorro, Solar I & II, Rayo de Jalisco Sr. & Jr., Valentín Mayo, Arkángel de la Muerte, Oro, Plata, El Piloto Suicida, Rito Romero, Hiro Matsuda, Mano Negra, Black Man, Black Terry (Guerrero Maya), El Texano, El Gladiador, El Hijo del Gladiador, Bobby Bonales, Rolando Vera, Gory Guerrero, Alberto Muñoz (White Man), Pepe Vargas, Vic Amezcua, Tony Salazar (Ulises), Enrique Vera, Franco Colombo, Sangre India, Águila India, Gran Cochisse (Espectro de Ultratumba), Espectro Jr., El Supremo I, César Curiel, El Solitario, Mil Máscaras, Abismo Negro and his last major trainées, Shocker and Mr. Águila. Basically almost anybody that was born in Guadalajara, or started his lucha libre career there, was trained by Velazco. Diablo's school had such a reputation that guys from everywhere would move to Guadalajara just to get trained by the man himself. One of the longer-tenured Japanese trainers like Kotetsu Yamamoto would probably be up there, too. You can't really count Stu Hart because he often wasn't teaching pro wrestling to the guys who broke in through the Dungeon. Even among his kids, we know for sure that Bret was trained by the duo of Mr. Hito and Kazuo Sakurada, while Bruce (and others who broke in with him, like Rick Martel) were trained by luchador Frank "Carincero" Butcher. davidbix fucked around with this message at 22:23 on Jul 12, 2023 |
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Jul 12, 2023 20:20
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Stu just wanted to stretch dudes in his basement.
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Jul 12, 2023 20:27
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Who doesn't?
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Jul 12, 2023 20:29
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davidbix posted:One of the longer-tenured Japanese trainers like Kotetsu Yamamoto would probably be up there, too. You can't really count Stu Hart because he often wasn't teaching pro wrestling to the guys who broke in through the Dungeon. Even among his kids, we know for sure that Bret was trained by the duo of Mr. Hito and Kazuo Sakurada, while Bruce (and others who broke in with him, like Rick Martel) were trained by luchador Frank "Carincero" Butcher. Going off Jericho and Storm's accounts it appears to be a fine tradition of being trained by the Harts but not actually trained by the Harts.
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Jul 12, 2023 20:33
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davidbix posted:Among those who were trained by Velazco: I feel really bad that there is only one man on this list I actually know. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZe6LvqQaVk
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Jul 12, 2023 20:57
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I think it was Len Denton (The Grappler) that had a story in his book about going to Stampede and Stu kept trying to get him into the basement for some "training", but he knew that Stu just wanted to stretch him so kept making various excuses to avoid it.
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Jul 12, 2023 21:00
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Dawgstar posted:Didn't Johnny Rodz train a lot of notable talent? He trained a lot of the ECW guys from New York: Taz, the Dudleys, I think Tommy Dreamer as well. Rodz also trained Prince Nana.
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Jul 12, 2023 22:03
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Dawgstar posted:Going off Jericho and Storm's accounts it appears to be a fine tradition of being trained by the Harts but not actually trained by the Harts.
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Jul 12, 2023 22:24
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A lot of current women wrestlers got trained by Emi Sakura. There's a, probably, non-complete list. https://www.cagematch.net/?id=2&nr=4629&page=14
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Jul 12, 2023 22:46
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Ultimo Dragon has to be up there for modern trainers
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Jul 12, 2023 23:02
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