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Man I just wanted to know if there were any details besides that trailer lol
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Jul 12, 2023 05:22
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Manager Hoyden posted:Could you name a metroidvania with a good story, just so people know what the scale looks like? Both Ori games.
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Jul 12, 2023 05:50
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Fuzz posted:Both Ori games. ...had cringy stories
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Jul 12, 2023 12:16
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The gold standard for Metroidvania storytelling is at the end of Super Metroid, when Samus must make her hardest decision: does she leave the planet immediately or does she make the ultimate sacrifice and save the animals at the cost of frames? Makes you think about what's really important.
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Jul 12, 2023 12:36
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psycron is p chill, a nice little ESA-like
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Jul 12, 2023 17:21
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The 7th Guest posted:psycron is p chill, a nice little ESA-like Grabbed this today, it's now 3 hours later and I agree. A nice bite size romp through a space station full of creepy crawlies. More games need to be Metroid sci-fi/horror run-and-gun, I'm kind of burnt out on gothic/fantasy melee adventures.
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Jul 13, 2023 02:52
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Swilo posted:More games need to be Metroid sci-fi/horror run-and-gun, I'm kind of burnt out on gothic/fantasy melee adventures. The moment I realized Axiom Verge 2 had replaced the shooty shooty with the stabby stabby my mood on it soured and never recovered. It’s not that I don’t love me some melee Metroivania, it’s just that they make up such an overwhelming majority of what’s available that taking one of the few gun based ones and making me swing a pickaxe all game was just a massive waste. It also didn’t help the game was just plain not as good as the first.
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Jul 13, 2023 06:25
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I've said it before and I'll say it again, Metroidvanias don't seem to take nearly enough Metroid into account. You'll get a million SOTN-likes, with the basic rear end movement abilities and melee attacks. You'll get tons and tons of straight hallways with random enemies, and maybe some minor platforms or something in the way. You'll find a bunch of baubles and crap to make your stats higher. You almost never get to start one of these games with a peashooter and end up a whirling dervish of destruction, blazing through obstacles and finding interesting hidden tunnels with your power ups. Morph Ball and Speed Booster puzzles are fun, puzzle rooms in general are fun, and being able to shortcut through puzzle rooms later when you get utterly broken items is even more fun. I don't know how devs keep ignoring this stuff, and insist on making games that have less mechanical and platforming depth than Circle of the loving Moon.
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Jul 13, 2023 08:52
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Grime is free on Epic games for the next four hours https://launcher.store.epicgames.com/en-US/p/grime
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Jul 13, 2023 12:17
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Kurui Reiten posted:I've said it before and I'll say it again, Metroidvanias don't seem to take nearly enough Metroid into account. The Mummy Remastered is honestly one of the best games in that regard. For a movie tie in it has no right being as good as it is.
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Jul 13, 2023 13:00
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Please don't be fooled by misinformation. The Mummy Remastered is bad actually.
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Jul 13, 2023 15:19
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It’s good and fun
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Jul 13, 2023 16:22
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Kurui Reiten posted:I've said it before and I'll say it again, Metroidvanias don't seem to take nearly enough Metroid into account.  I have more appreciation for SotN-likes than I once did thanks to their overlap with Dark Souls, but Metroid is my true love and there's still so painfully few of those.
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Jul 13, 2023 16:32
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I played SM and SotN back to back recently and its striking how much more SotN-like modern metroidvanias are than SM-like. The igavania formula is much more modular, you can't really sequence break at all, you get like a 1/8 chunk of the total map to explore and in every one of those chunks there is a boss and a key to the next area. In SotN itself there aren't really any movement abilities other than the double jump, the animal forms can't really be used except at the specific features designed for them. Meanwhile in SM you can almost go anywhere from the start if you can wall jump good enough. I'm playing hollow knight now and it's strongly gated and modular like sotn, I tried to get the air dash early and you just can't, you have to go through two areas and bosses in the intended sequence before you can get it
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Jul 13, 2023 16:46
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The way people look at Super Metroid is always a little confusing to me because the sequence-breaking was largely not an intentional part of the game, so on modern games with thorough bug-testing, there's normally not going to be very much you can mess around with. But Castlevania having a lot less mobility or mobility upgrades compared to Metroid means that there's less systems to even begin to use to screw around with things.
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Jul 13, 2023 16:53
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The GBA and DS Igavania's do have some sequence breaks, but they're mostly a result of bugs and oversight. It's not like Super Metroid, where Samus mostly has free reign of the map, but a first time player is unlikely to realize or take advantage of this. (Credit to those 'vania's for being robust enough that the game is fully playable even when you do sequence breaking through bugs.) SlothfulCobra posted:The way people look at Super Metroid is always a little confusing to me because the sequence-breaking was largely not an intentional part of the game, so on modern games with thorough bug-testing, there's normally not going to be very much you can mess around with. I don't beleive that. Super Metroid is a very intentially designed game that actively teaches the player how to sequence break. Schwarzwald fucked around with this message at 17:00 on Jul 13, 2023 |
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Jul 13, 2023 16:57
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Been playing Foregone on my steam deck and it has been very pleasant. I think the steam deck is one of the best ways to play Castleroids - bested Timespinner, Axiom Verge, Metroid Zero Mission, Metroid Fusion, Super Metroid on mine. Just a decent screen and the buttons work well for me.
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Jul 13, 2023 16:59
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Schwarzwald posted:I don't beleive that. Super Metroid is a very intentially designed game that actively teaches the player how to sequence break.
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Jul 13, 2023 17:15
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While I generally agree, Hollow Knight is a weird example to use. The game opens up massively after the dash, with many areas having intentional multiple routes based on different abilities and some exploration upgrades being fully optional for the regular ending. Even for that early tutorial bit (which I do think is a negative for the game, pre-dash HK movement just doesn't feel good), you can skip most of greenpath with a simple pogo.
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Jul 13, 2023 17:26
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SlothfulCobra posted:The way people look at Super Metroid is always a little confusing to me because the sequence-breaking was largely not an intentional part of the game, so on modern games with thorough bug-testing, there's normally not going to be very much you can mess around with. Yeah this bugs me a little too. Like, sequence breaks and speedrun tricks are cool, don't get me wrong, but they never really factored in to what I like and actually get out of those games. Everybody's always hype for the big skips meanwhile I'm over here quietly rooting for the artfully designed intended route. 
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Jul 13, 2023 17:58
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Schwarzwald posted:The GBA and DS Igavania's do have some sequence breaks, but they're mostly a result of bugs and oversight. It's not like Super Metroid, where Samus mostly has free reign of the map, but a first time player is unlikely to realize or take advantage of this. The game definitely has intended sequence breaks such as getting to power bombs early with wall jumping instead of ice beam but a lot of them, especially ones speedrunners use, are clearly not intended at all. Such as getting to wrecked ship before ever having grapple beam which requires pixel perfect wall jumping or incredibly jank horizontal bomb jumping.
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Jul 13, 2023 18:07
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Cirina posted:The game definitely has intended sequence breaks such as getting to power bombs early with wall jumping instead of ice beam but a lot of them, especially ones speedrunners use, are clearly not intended at all. Such as getting to wrecked ship before ever having grapple beam which requires pixel perfect wall jumping or incredibly jank horizontal bomb jumping. Wrecked Ship can be pretty easily accessed with just speed booster and no grapple. But the CWL or horizontal bomb jumps are definitely a league of their own in terms of difficult tricks.
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Jul 13, 2023 18:26
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Pretty sure mockball is just a bug too.
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Jul 13, 2023 18:53
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galagazombie posted:The moment I realized Axiom Verge 2 had replaced the shooty shooty with the stabby stabby my mood on it soured and never recovered. It’s not that I don’t love me some melee Metroivania, it’s just that they make up such an overwhelming majority of what’s available that taking one of the few gun based ones and making me swing a pickaxe all game was just a massive waste. It also didn’t help the game was just plain not as good as the first. Having just finished AV1 when I started AV2, I completely agree to a point. It felt much worse to have a lovely axe/boomerang and little movement. I ended up really enjoying AV2 a lot more because of the mobility. AV1 starts you with the gun and some basic mobility, and by the end you're moving at a pretty good clip, but if AV goes from a 3/10 to a 7/10 on the movement scale, AV2 feels like it goes from a 1.5-2/10 to a 9/10. 10 being, like, Screw Attack/Space Jump/Speed Boost or literal flight. It's one reason I appreciated Afterimage, because it gives you the basic jump/double/triple and a dash, but you can also attack in midair after any of those to horizontally extend your jump. Jump -> double jump -> attack -> triple jump -> attack -> dash -> attack can get you clear across entire maps. Toward the end, you can get the ability to do a vertical charge jump, but it doesn't actually require you to be standing on the ground, so you can infinitely jump/fall in midair and go anywhere you like. Some of the platforms you are intended to reach with this upgrade can be found earlier just by using the extended horizontal jumps instead (although some are still impossible)
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Jul 13, 2023 19:11
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virtualboyCOLOR posted:Every time I have given a game a chance on their story I have regretted it. If everyone you meet is an rear end in a top hat,
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Jul 13, 2023 19:27
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It'd certainly be neat if more games planned for sequence breaks, but it seems like it's hard for games to plan for that, and more often you'll just see games where there's a nonlinear path of progression. I think a lot of Nintendo sequence breaks and exploits come more from the games being designed from the ground up by designing systems for the players to be mobile, and that giving players a bunch of tools to use in ways that designers did not intend (as well as some bugs from the games being early and experimental). Which I think not a lot of games these days are designed from the ground up around just giving the player a bunch of options for moving around, so you often lack that sort of toolset to even begin to experiment. Swilo posted:More games need to be Metroid sci-fi/horror run-and-gun, I'm kind of burnt out on gothic/fantasy melee adventures.
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Jul 13, 2023 20:01
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Swilo posted:Grabbed this today, it's now 3 hours later and I agree. A nice bite size romp through a space station full of creepy crawlies. I still like gothic/fantasy melee metroidvanias, but I'm completely burnt out on the Dark Souls influence.
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Jul 13, 2023 20:13
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Are there any metroidvanias with combat that feel as good as guacamelee? I'd be lying if I said I didn't enjoy pretty much every metroidvania I've played, but guacamelee just felt so good to play as someone who enjoys fighting games. Especially when you get the skeleton costume and can just go crazy with special moves.
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Jul 13, 2023 20:31
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bawk posted:Having just finished AV1 when I started AV2, I completely agree to a point. It felt much worse to have a lovely axe/boomerang and little movement. I ended up really enjoying AV2 a lot more because of the mobility. AV1 starts you with the gun and some basic mobility, and by the end you're moving at a pretty good clip, but if AV goes from a 3/10 to a 7/10 on the movement scale, AV2 feels like it goes from a 1.5-2/10 to a 9/10. 10 being, like, Screw Attack/Space Jump/Speed Boost or literal flight.
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Jul 13, 2023 20:50
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KNR posted:While I generally agree, Hollow Knight is a weird example to use. The game opens up massively after the dash, with many areas having intentional multiple routes based on different abilities and some exploration upgrades being fully optional for the regular ending. Even for that early tutorial bit (which I do think is a negative for the game, pre-dash HK movement just doesn't feel good), you can skip most of greenpath with a simple pogo. Ah, I stopped playing for a bit after getting the cape. I should go back and finish it
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Jul 13, 2023 21:18
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Souldiers started off by giving me a few slimes, barely explaining the combat mechanics, and then having a Rogue character make fun of me for not understanding the combat mechanics fully after dying to a mini iboss. I have half a mind to delete my save and restart the game and go kick that thing's rear end now that I have a better grasp on the controls and timing. 
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Jul 13, 2023 23:34
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John Lee posted:If everyone you meet is an rear end in a top hat, Ironically (given your avatar) I thoroughly enjoyed the story of Chrono Trigger but then Chrono Cross ruined it, forever cementing that lore can only hurt, not help. icantfindaname posted:Ah, I stopped playing for a bit after getting the cape. I should go back and finish it nah. You made the right call. Games Forum posted:Been playing Foregone on my steam deck and it has been very pleasant. Timespinner was a pleasant surprise. I thoroughly enjoyed it. Axiom Verge games are.....ok? Not bad (other than, yes, the edgelord story) but a little buggy. The 7th Guest posted:psycron is p chill, a nice little ESA-like Bought this sight unseen just by calling it ESA-like. virtualboyCOLOR fucked around with this message at 00:46 on Jul 14, 2023 |
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Jul 14, 2023 00:43
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If you're designing a metroidvania, and you give the player a ranged attack that goes 5 meters, and you place them into a hallway full of enemies that are strategically placed 6 meters away from wherever the player can be, and those enemies can attack with infinite range, and you do all of this because you're thinking "the player's going to feel so empowered when they come back to this hallway when the ranged attack reaches 7 meters instead" then congrats! You designed a bad hallway, but instead of by accident, you did it on purpose! Souldiers is getting really loving annoying with that
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Jul 14, 2023 02:05
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The 7th Guest posted:psycron is p chill, a nice little ESA-like Just beat it. Really nice bite sized metroidvania. More metroidvania games need light horror elements.
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Jul 14, 2023 05:17
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bossy lady posted:Are there any metroidvanias with combat that feel as good as guacamelee? I'd be lying if I said I didn't enjoy pretty much every metroidvania I've played, but guacamelee just felt so good to play as someone who enjoys fighting games. Especially when you get the skeleton costume and can just go crazy with special moves. Sleeping dogs is pretty great for combat. You explore the world opening up new combat moves as you discover certain items and turn them in. The exploration is maybe not as good as most metroidvanias as the world opens up pretty quickly and you don't get many new traversal options
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Jul 14, 2023 17:02
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ilmucche posted:Sleeping dogs is pretty great for combat. You explore the world opening up new combat moves as you discover certain items and turn them in. The exploration is maybe not as good as most metroidvanias as the world opens up pretty quickly and you don't get many new traversal options Wait, what
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Jul 14, 2023 17:21
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ilmucche posted:Sleeping dogs is pretty great for combat. You explore the world opening up new combat moves as you discover certain items and turn them in. The exploration is maybe not as good as most metroidvanias as the world opens up pretty quickly and you don't get many new traversal options Sleeping Dogs is not a metroidvania.
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Jul 14, 2023 17:27
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virtualboyCOLOR posted:More metroidvania games need light horror elements. TBH I don't think I've played a metroidvania that doesn't have light horror elements.
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Jul 14, 2023 17:41
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Schwarzwald posted:TBH I don't think I've played a metroidvania that doesn't have light horror elements. I should clarify. I don’t mean spooky haunted house horror elements. I mean stuff like Mr X from resident evil 2.
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Jul 14, 2023 18:50
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ilmucche posted:Sleeping dogs is pretty great for combat. You explore the world opening up new combat moves as you discover certain items and turn them in. The exploration is maybe not as good as most metroidvanias as the world opens up pretty quickly and you don't get many new traversal options The first Darksiders is a better Metroidvania. 
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Jul 14, 2023 18:50
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