USCE 2023: Please let them shove a camera up your butt

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the_steve: Nov 9, 2005; We're always hiring!

Willa Rogers posted:

NBC News ran a piece about younger voters this cycle. Highlights bolded instead of restated.

Biden confronts a 'pissed-off generation' of young voters who may be decisive in 2024

What are you guys sussing out from the Kids These Days in your universe? And if you were a political strategist, what would you suggest that Democrats do to woo the young'uns?

It's mentioned in the article and it's something I've said myself a number of times in the past, but the Dems need to actually run FOR things. Though more importantly, they'd also need to follow through on the Good Things they pinky-promise swear they actually want for people, and I understand that runs counter to what they actually want to do.

# ? Jul 13, 2023 15:11

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# ? May 25, 2024 20:02

zoux: Apr 28, 2006

quote:

Page Six regrets to report that a press dinner to boost Robert F. Kennedy Jr.�s presidential campaign descended into a foul bout of screaming and polemic farting Tuesday night.

The White House hopeful attended the affair at Tony�s on the Upper East Side, no doubt hoping to impress on the ladies and gentlemen of the Fourth Estate his worthiness to sit at the very same Oval Office desk once occupied by his late uncle.

But a shouting match over climate change broke out between two boisterous old men, sending the evening down an extremely unfortunate path.

The gaseous exchange � to which Page Six bore reluctant witness � began after a guest asked Kennedy, founder of the ecological organization Waterkeeper Alliance, about the environment.

And it seems that the mere inquiry was enough to set off apparently drunk gossip columnist-turned-flack Doug Dechert, the host of the event, who became enraged and screamed at the top of his lungs: �The climate hoax!�

Meanwhile, octogenarian art critic Anthony Haden-Guest, who appeared to have been sleeping happily for most of the dinner, was roused by the abrupt rumpus.

Haden-Guest suddenly opened his eyes and denounced his longtime pal Dechert, calling him a �miserable blob.�

�Shut up!� implored Haden-Guest.

Dechert continued to scream wildly about the climate change �scam� while Haden-Guest peppered him with verbal volleys from across the table, calling him variously �f�king insane� and �insignificant.�

Meanwhile, Kennedy, a prospective president of the United States, watched calmly.

Sounds like he's assembling a team of rivals.

quote:

Here, it seems, Dechert sensed the need for a new rhetorical tack, and let rip a loud, prolonged fart while yelling, as if to underscore his point, �I�m farting!�

The room, which included a handful of journalists as well as Kennedy�s campaign manager, former Rep. Dennis Kucinich, was stunned, seemingly unsure about whether Dechert was farting at Haden-Guest personally or at the very notion of global warming.

(Regrettably, we may assure readers that there was no room for doubt that the climate changed in the immediate environs of the dinner table.)

The candidate maintained a steady composure in the face of the crisis.

He's ready on day one.

# ? Jul 13, 2023 15:11

FlamingLiberal: Jan 18, 2009; Would you like to play a game?

zoux posted:

https://twitter.com/RobertKennedyJr/status/1679287184254287873

The Republican ratfuckers and bored political journalists propping this guy up should probably remind him that he's running for the Democratic Party's nomination for president.

They know what they�re doing

I don�t think RFK Jr will have any real impact whatsoever in 2024 but they are also opening the door for him to endorse Trump when he loses to Biden

# ? Jul 13, 2023 15:12

Willa Rogers: Mar 11, 2005

the_steve posted:

It's mentioned in the article and it's something I've said myself a number of times in the past, but the Dems need to actually run FOR things. Though more importantly, they'd also need to follow through on the Good Things they pinky-promise swear they actually want for people, and I understand that runs counter to what they actually want to do.

Yeah, I agree.

This poli-speak struck me as particularly lame:

quote:

�Young people are acutely impacted by the issues front and center in this election, driven by the extreme MAGA agenda, which cuts costs for corporations but not students in debt, takes away fundamental rights, and fails to protect young Americans from our most urgent threats like gun violence and climate change,� said Biden campaign spokesman Kevin Munoz. �President Biden and Vice President Harris are fighting for the future America�s young people deserve, and as Democrats did in 2020 and 2022, we will meet younger Americans where they are and turn their energy into action as part of our winning 2024 coalition.�

I mean, I get that it's a quote directed toward the reporter, not "young people," but those kind of kitchen-sink answers make my eyes glaze over, and I'm not a 20 yr old with an attention span the length of a text message.

Also this:

quote:

In an interview, Jones, who was reinstated to the Legislature in April, praised Biden for securing a bill to combat mass shootings, pursuing �environmental justice� with a historic climate law, passing a bill to address the �crisis of democracy� by closing loopholes to prevent stolen elections and announcing new steps to mitigate student debt after his earlier actions were overturned by a conservative-leaning Supreme Court.

"Pursuing" and "announcing" and "securing" these items aren't really attention-grabbing, nor earth-shaking, accomplishments & I don't understand how or why they'll convince younger voters.

# ? Jul 13, 2023 15:18

KillHour: Oct 28, 2007

Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:

Guys, I think Robert "vaccines are literal poison, trans people are gross and being used by big pharma to sell us hormones and drugs to poison our kids, Russia was forced to invade Ukraine in self-defense, climate change is a false flag to control us, there are 'some merits' to Jewish conspiracy theories, Prozac is the cause of nearly every mass shooting in America, and bitcoin will replace all global currencies in a decade" Kennedy Jr. might have some bad ideas.

Look guy, if you didn't constrain the invisible hand of the free market with all these laws, it would go to the polluters' houses personally and beat them up for damaging the planet.

# ? Jul 13, 2023 15:24

Leon Trotsky 2012: Aug 27, 2009; YOU CAN TRUST ME!*

_{*Israeli Government-affiliated poster}

FDA approved the first OTC birth control pill.

This is different than the other plan to potentially make hormonal birth control (and several other medications that previously required a prescription like viagra, hearing aids - which was already done earlier this year - or cholesterol drugs), which is still ongoing. The decision on whether to make hormonal birth control in general available OTC is expected by October.

https://twitter.com/washingtonpost/status/1679471821727342593

quote:

Federal regulators Thursday approved the first over-the-counter birth control pill available in the United States, a milestone in decades-long efforts to make oral contraceptives easier to obtain, especially by teenagers and women who don�t regularly see a doctor.

The Food and Drug Administration�s approval of Opill, made by the consumer health giant Perrigo, comes six decades after daily birth control pills were introduced in the United States, drastically changing the lives of countless women and American society. And it means the country will join about 100 other nations that allow the sale of nonprescription birth control pills.

Health experts, citing the pill�s lengthy record of safety and effectiveness, have pushed for a nonprescription pill for years, but their campaign took on new urgency after the Supreme Court last year struck down the fundamental right to abortion established by Roe v. Wade.

�It�s a transformative change in contraceptive access and reproductive health,� said Victoria Nichols, project director of Free the Pill, a coalition of dozens of groups working for over-the-counter birth control pills in the United States.

Opill is expected to be available over the counter in stores starting in January or February, according to Perrigo. It will not have an age restriction. The suggested retail price is expected to be announced this fall. The FDA decision applies only to Opill, not to other birth control pills.

Dyvia Huitron, who is 19 and lives in McAllen, Tex., was 16 when she started having sex and was not able to get the pill; she said she used condoms. Her parents told her to stop having sex. Huitron said several of her friends became pregnant in high school.

�Young people absolutely need this,� said Huitron, a member of Advocates for Youth, a nonprofit organization that has been pressing for easier access to birth control. �For them to be able to get something so important in terms of taking care of their bodies, at an age when historically we have not been allowed to � it will have a really significant impact on our lives and our ability to plan for the future.�

The OTC decision comes amid ongoing turmoil following the decision overturning Roe. Today, about a quarter of women of reproductive age live in states where abortion is banned or mostly banned, with dozens of clinics across the South and Midwest no longer providing abortions. New restrictions have led to almost 25,000 fewer legal abortions.

Among the biggest outstanding questions about Opill: cost and insurance coverage. The company has said it would keep the drug affordable and offer financial assistance to people who qualify.

Under the Affordable Care Act, group health plans and insurance companies are required to cover women�s preventive services, including birth control, at no cost. But that applies to prescription products; typically, insurers do not cover OTC drugs � something that women�s health groups want the Biden administration to change.

Some states require the insurance companies they regulate to cover contraceptive products sold without a prescription, according to the Guttmacher Institute, a research group that supports abortion rights. Almost 30 states and the District of Columbia allow pharmacists to write prescriptions for contraceptives, but some of the laws have age and other restrictions.

Almost half of the pregnancies in the United States are unplanned, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Because Opill has been shown to be more effective than other forms of contraception, such as condoms, experts say it could reduce the number of unintended pregnancies.

Major medical groups, including the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists and the American Medical Association, have called for the change for years, saying nonprescription pills could be a boon for public health.

Opill, also called norgestrel, is sometimes called a �mini pill� because it contains only progestin, a synthetic form of the hormone progesterone. It works by thickening cervical mucus to inhibit sperm and suppressing ovulation. Opill does not contain a synthetic form of the hormone estrogen.

Birth control pills that contain both progestin and a synthetic form of estrogen � called combination pills � are more popular in the United States than progestin-only pills. But there are more medical conditions, including blood clots, that preclude use of those combination pills.

The first birth control pill was approved in 1960. Norgestrel was first cleared in 1973 under the brand name Ovrette. It was discontinued by Pfizer in 2005 for business reasons.

HRA Pharma, a Paris company, acquired the medication in 2014 and in recent years has worked closely with Ibis Reproductive Health, a Cambridge, Mass., research group that heads Free the Pill. HRA Pharma applied to the FDA for over-the-counter status for the drug in July 2022 shortly after being acquired by Perrigo, a giant Dublin-based manufacturer of generic medications.

Perrigo applauded FDA�s approval Thursday.

�Today marks a truly momentous day for women�s health nationwide,� said Patrick Lockwood-Taylor, Perrigo�s president and chief executive officer. He said Opill has the potential to sharply improve access to contraception.

In May, outside experts advising the FDA voted unanimously that the benefits of approving OTC status for Opill outweigh the risks. They overrode reservations expressed by agency staffers who wondered whether physician oversight might be needed to ensure the pill was used safely and effectively.

The staffers were especially concerned that women might not adhere to directions to take the pill every day, at about the same time, and to use another form of contraception or abstain from sex if they missed a dose. They also worried that some women with breast cancer and other medical conditions might not follow instructions to avoid the medications.

Opposition to Opill�s application for nonprescription status mostly came from Catholic groups that have traditionally opposed birth control in favor of natural family planning methods that rely on tracking a woman�s cycle, and fertility, throughout the month. Catholic groups that oppose OTC status focus, in part, on safety issues.

�We strenuously oppose the non-prescription availability of Opill,� the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops, National Catholic Bioethics Center, Catholic Medical Association and National Association of Catholic Nurses wrote to the FDA�s outside advisers in November.

Antiabortion groups that pushed hard to dismantle Roe have not spent a lot of time focusing on oral contraceptives.

# ? Jul 13, 2023 15:24

haveblue: Aug 15, 2005; Toilet Rascal

It looks inevitable at this point that SAG-AFTRA, the union that represents most onscreen performers in the US, is going to authorize a strike today. This will almost completely paralyze the entertainment industry, far more so than the already-ongoing writers' strike, since it will not be possible to film anything featuring actors you've heard of.

SAG-AFTRA statement:

quote:

After more than four weeks of bargaining, the Alliance of Motion Picture and Television Producers (AMPTP) � the entity that represents major studios and streamers, including Amazon, Apple, Disney, NBCUniversal, Netflix, Paramount, Sony and Warner Bros. Discovery � remains unwilling to offer a fair deal on the key issues that are essential to SAG-AFTRA members.

In the face of the AMPTP�s intransigence and delay tactics, SAG-AFTRA�s negotiating committee voted unanimously to recommend to the National Board a strike of the Producers-SAG-AFTRA TV/Theatrical/Streaming Contracts which expired July 12, 2023, at 11:59 p.m. PT.

SAG-AFTRA�s National Board will vote Thursday morning on whether to strike.

SAG-AFTRA President Fran Drescher said, �SAG-AFTRA negotiated in good faith and was eager to reach a deal that sufficiently addressed performer needs, but the AMPTP�s responses to the union�s most important proposals have been insulting and disrespectful of our massive contributions to this industry. The companies have refused to meaningfully engage on some topics and on others completely stonewalled us. Until they do negotiate in good faith, we cannot begin to reach a deal. We have no choice but to move forward in unity, and on behalf of our membership, with a strike recommendation to our National Board. The board will discuss the issue this morning and will make its decision.�

The "key issues that are essential" are mostly compensation for appearance in streaming media, which the industry has until this point gotten away with doing very differently (i.e. significantly less) from appearances in traditional film and television productions.

SAG-AFTRA has not gone on strike since 1980. SAG-AFTRA and the WGA have not both gone on strike together since 1960.

haveblue fucked around with this message at 15:50 on Jul 13, 2023

# ? Jul 13, 2023 15:48

zoux: Apr 28, 2006

haveblue posted:

SAG-AFTRA and the WGA have not both gone on strike together since 1960.

And the SAG president in 1960? The funniest possible person to lead a union strike.

https://twitter.com/Phil_Lewis_/status/1679500973872390144

I'm picturing the impound lot cop from Big Lebowski here. "They got us working in shifts!"

https://twitter.com/RNCResearch/status/1679209644890157057

Mean while the President's silence if deafening

zoux fucked around with this message at 16:00 on Jul 13, 2023

# ? Jul 13, 2023 15:56

Leon Trotsky 2012: Aug 27, 2009; YOU CAN TRUST ME!*

_{*Israeli Government-affiliated poster}

zoux posted:

And the SAG president in 1960? The funniest possible person to lead a union strike.

Ronald Reagan? The President? Then who's starring in Bedtime for Bonzo 2? Arnold Schwarzenegger? I suppose Jane Wyman is the First Lady! And Jack Benny is Secretary of the Treasury!

# ? Jul 13, 2023 16:00

Mellow Seas: Oct 9, 2012; Can't post for 10 years!

Willa Rogers posted:

NBC News ran a piece about younger voters this cycle. Highlights bolded instead of restated.

I don�t know if I�ve see anything written about politics that was more �vibes� than this. There�s no data except for the fact that he appears to have a positive approval rating, although for some reason (because it doesn�t fit the chosen narrative, probably) they don�t give the full figures. Nor do they compare them to any historical data. (How �excited� were young people for Joe Biden in the aftermath of the 2020 primaries?)

We just don�t know at all how any of this is going to translate into votes. Unlike many loud online voices I don�t think most young people consider personally liking or �approving� of the boring technocrat to be a prerequisite for voting against open fascism.

the_steve posted:

It's mentioned in the article and it's something I've said myself a number of times in the past, but the Dems need to actually run FOR things. Though more importantly, they'd also need to follow through on the Good Things they pinky-promise swear they actually want for people, and I understand that runs counter to what they actually want to do.

They do run �for� things. I think you are thinking of Democrats from the aughts. (A lot of these stereotypes never get updated.) And they do follow through on many of their proposals, and besides nobody is sitting there with a clipboard of things Joe Biden promised in 2020 and tsk tsking everything he didn�t do because of lame excuses like �he didn�t have congressional support for it� or �the Supreme Court ruled it unconstitutional.�

In what sense do they not run on anything? They are going to run on taxing the rich and expanding healthcare coverage, like they always do. Clean energy. Abortion rights and gender rights. They are going to run on the extremely strong labor market, consistent job growth, and the explosive growth in the manufacturing sector. Maybe those aren�t the things you want them to run on, but the messaging is clear. Like, I don�t know what reality people are living in where they think the Democrats are just standing there going �orange mad bad!� over and over.

Reminder that we are talking about the party that gets millions more votes in literally every presidential election. Yes, many of their members have bad opinions about one thing or another (or several), and yes, they make political miscalculations. But the refusal to see them as anything but hopeless losers is just conformation bias.*

e: * does not apply to Florida Dems

Mellow Seas fucked around with this message at 16:08 on Jul 13, 2023

# ? Jul 13, 2023 16:00

Rappaport: Oct 2, 2013

Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:

Ronald Reagan? The President? Then who's starring in Bedtime for Bonzo 2? Arnold Schwarzenegger? I suppose Jane Wyman is the First Lady! And Jack Benny is Secretary of the Treasury!

Hey now, Doc Brown was a nice dude, all things considered.

# ? Jul 13, 2023 16:05

AlternateNu: May 5, 2005; ドーナツダメ！

haveblue posted:

It looks inevitable at this point that SAG-AFTRA, the union that represents most onscreen performers in the US, is going to authorize a strike today. This will almost completely paralyze the entertainment industry, far more so than the already-ongoing writers' strike, since it will not be possible to film anything featuring actors you've heard of.

SAG-AFTRA statement:

The "key issues that are essential" are mostly compensation for appearance in streaming media, which the industry has until this point gotten away with doing very differently (i.e. significantly less) from appearances in traditional film and television productions.

SAG-AFTRA has not gone on strike since 1980. SAG-AFTRA and the WGA have not both gone on strike together since 1960.

This is funny because multiple radio morning shows I flip through were discussing the WGA strike and one of them straight up said��We actually in SAG-AFTRA, I think. So, we support our brothers and sisters in the writer�s guild. �
�
We�re not striking, right? Are we? We�ll have to check on that.�

# ? Jul 13, 2023 16:07

haveblue: Aug 15, 2005; Toilet Rascal

AlternateNu posted:

This is funny because multiple radio morning shows I flip through were discussing the WGA strike and one of them straight up said��We actually in SAG-AFTRA, I think. So, we support our brothers and sisters in the writer�s guild. �
�
We�re not striking, right? Are we? We�ll have to check on that.�

Keep the radio on, the board's decision will be announced at 12 PT today. I'm not clear if that means the strike could instantly start at that moment or if that will be the announcement of the time at which that happens. The previous contract expired overnight which is why this is all happening today.

# ? Jul 13, 2023 16:09

the_steve: Nov 9, 2005; We're always hiring!

Mellow Seas posted:

I don�t know if I�ve see anything written about politics that was more �vibes� than this. There�s no data except for the fact that he appears to have a positive approval rating, although for some reason (because it doesn�t fit the chosen narrative, probably) they don�t give the full figures. Nor do they compare them to any historical data. (How �excited� were young people for Joe Biden in the aftermath of the 2020 primaries?)

We just don�t know at all how any of this is going to translate into votes. Unlike many loud online voices I don�t think most young people consider personally liking or �approving� of the boring technocrat to be a prerequisite for voting against open fascism.

They do run �for� things. I think you are thinking of Democrats from the aughts. (A lot of these stereotypes never get updated.) And they do follow through on many of their proposals, and besides nobody is sitting there with a clipboard of things Joe Biden promised in 2020 and tsk tsking everything he didn�t do because of lame excuses like �he didn�t have congressional support for it� or �the Supreme Court ruled it unconstitutional.�

In what sense do they not run on anything? They are going to run on taxing the rich and expanding healthcare coverage, like they always do. Clean energy. Abortion rights and gender rights. They are going to run on the extremely strong labor market, consistent job growth, and the explosive growth in the manufacturing sector. Maybe those aren�t the things you want them to run on, but the messaging is clear. Like, I don�t know what reality people are living in where they think the Democrats are just standing there going �orange mad bad!� over and over.

Reminder that we are talking about the party that gets millions more votes in literally every presidential election. Yes, many of their members have bad opinions about one thing or another (or several), and yes, they make political miscalculations. But the refusal to see them as anything but hopeless losers is just conformation bias.*

e: * does not apply to Florida Dems

The bolded parts are what stick out the most immediately to me, considering we live in a world where Roe v. Wade was overturned under a Democratic administration and anti-trans legislation and rhetoric is ramping back up to levels that I don't think we've seen in quite a number of years.

Dems have had decades and multiple presidencies to codify Roe v. Wade. I'll admit, I was very vocal about how I didn't believe there was a snowball's chance in hell of it ever getting overturned in the first place, but I'm also not a career politician whose job involves seeing the writing on the walls that us normal idiots don't get to look at, I'm sure the folks with actual access to the levers of power saw it coming and still let it happen.

It's very easy to see them as hopeless losers (or deliberate losers) when they keep "TECHNICALLY" winning, but somehow the Republicans keep managing to go home with the trophy.

# ? Jul 13, 2023 16:17

Willa Rogers: Mar 11, 2005

I think the NBC News piece was more about how to motivate younger voters, who typically have lower rates of voting, than presenting statistics about whether they plan to vote.

Not every political piece is presenting hard stats; some are strategy-oriented, as this one was.

But it did quote a political pollster who'd said:

quote:

�Nearly every sign that made me confident in historic levels of youth participation in 2018, 2020, and 2022 � is now flashing red,� he wrote.

In 2020, Biden won 60% of voters under 30, while Trump won 36%, according to NBC News exit polls. In addition, youth voter turnout surged that year compared to 2016, helping Biden win the Electoral College by a margin of just 45,000 votes across three swing states.

Biden�s national approval rating with registered voters under 35 is 51%, with a 44% unfavorable rating, an NBC News poll taken June 16-20 found. Young voter enthusiasm for Biden is limited: Just 9% of voters under 35 said they �strongly approve� of Biden�s performance. Among those who disapprove, 28% said they �strongly disapprove,� while 16% said they �somewhat disapprove.�

# ? Jul 13, 2023 16:20

zoux: Apr 28, 2006

Mellow Seas posted:

I don�t know if I�ve see anything written about politics that was more �vibes� than this. There�s no data except for the fact that he appears to have a positive approval rating, although for some reason (because it doesn�t fit the chosen narrative, probably) they don�t give the full figures. Nor do they compare them to any historical data. (How �excited� were young people for Joe Biden in the aftermath of the 2020 primaries?)

We just don�t know at all how any of this is going to translate into votes. Unlike many loud online voices I don�t think most young people consider personally liking or �approving� of the boring technocrat to be a prerequisite for voting against open fascism.

They do run �for� things.

Yes but if they ran for the things that I like then they would excite the youth vote. No I am not young.

https://twitter.com/ArthurDelaneyHP/status/1679500826388189184

This is getting pathetic. I'm sure most of those 500 people are back in their home states because they are tourists? I know that they just want the words "cocaine" associated with "Biden" for Hunter Vibes Reasons but what's their theory of malfeasance here? Did Joe Biden, demented and hopped up on cocaine, get in line for a public tour of the White House and put his bag of cocaine in the x-ray tray?

zoux fucked around with this message at 16:23 on Jul 13, 2023

# ? Jul 13, 2023 16:21

socialsecurity: Aug 30, 2003

Sure its not great someone snuck in with drugs into the white house, it is not a "scandal" though. It's not like it was Bidens coke or anything. Hell I wish he would do some coke maybe it would put more fight in him.

# ? Jul 13, 2023 16:22

Fork of Unknown Origins: Oct 21, 2005; Gotta Herd On?

I�m a little bit surprised that the white house doesn�t have the security camera coverage to figure it out but I also don�t care at all.

# ? Jul 13, 2023 16:22

Willa Rogers: Mar 11, 2005

zoux posted:

Yes but if they ran for the things that I like then they would excite the youth vote. No I am not young.

Was this directed toward me? Because I don't recall expressing that in my notes about the NBC News story, or in any other of my recent posts. :confused:

If you do disagree with something I've said I'm happy to further discuss it.

# ? Jul 13, 2023 16:23

zoux: Apr 28, 2006

Fork of Unknown Origins posted:

I�m a little bit surprised that the white house doesn�t have the security camera coverage to figure it out but I also don�t care at all.

The "White" House you say....this goes all the way to the top.

# ? Jul 13, 2023 16:24

Professor Beetus: Apr 12, 2007; They can fight us
But they'll never Beetus

socialsecurity posted:

Sure its not great someone snuck in with drugs into the white house, it is not a "scandal" though. It's not like it was Bidens coke or anything. Hell I wish he would do some coke maybe it would put more fight in him.

The coke clearly belongs to Onion Biden

# ? Jul 13, 2023 16:26

Bellmaker: Oct 18, 2008; Chapter DOOF

zoux posted:

And the SAG president in 1960? The funniest possible person to lead a union strike.

Hollywood CEOs getting their rear end kicked by The Nanny is a solid #2 though.

# ? Jul 13, 2023 16:31

plogo: Jan 20, 2009

I would prefer an aggregation of polls rather than just the yougov poll, but it seems to me that Biden is doing okay with younger voters relative to older voters.

https://www.economist.com/president-joe-biden-polls

# ? Jul 13, 2023 16:34

Mellow Seas: Oct 9, 2012; Can't post for 10 years!

the_steve posted:

The bolded parts are what stick out the most immediately to me, considering we live in a world where Roe v. Wade was overturned under a Democratic administration and anti-trans legislation and rhetoric is ramping back up to levels that I don't think we've seen in quite a number of years.

Yes, if you just flat-out ignore any realities whatsoever about the basic functions and structure of our federalist system of government, the Dems are bad on those issues.

Are you serious right now, man? Ask a woman needing an abortion or a trans person who they would rather have running their state or the federal government.

# ? Jul 13, 2023 16:39

Willa Rogers: Mar 11, 2005

plogo posted:

I would prefer an aggregation of polls rather than just the yougov poll, but it seems to me that Biden is doing okay with younger voters relative to older voters.

Yes, his approvals are fine among younger voters, but as Della Volpe said, it's indicators such as the number of young voters identifying as Democrats & also of younger voters seeing politics as a meaningful way to create change, which he has cited as precursors of younger-voter turnout.

Beyond the raw numbers & into analysis, in other words.

# ? Jul 13, 2023 16:40

zoux: Apr 28, 2006

plogo posted:

I would prefer an aggregation of polls rather than just the yougov poll, but it seems to me that Biden is doing okay with younger voters relative to older voters.

https://www.economist.com/president-joe-biden-polls

But this is the opposite of what the one single professor who provided the entire premise for that Dems in Disarray article said?

# ? Jul 13, 2023 16:43

the_steve: Nov 9, 2005; We're always hiring!

Mellow Seas posted:

Yes, if you just flat-out ignore any realities whatsoever about the basic functions and structure of our federalist system of government, the Dems are bad on those issues.

Are you serious right now, man? Ask a woman needing an abortion or a trans person who they would rather have running their state or the federal government.

Well poo poo, what do you think, Willa?

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

# ? Jul 13, 2023 16:44

FlamingLiberal: Jan 18, 2009; Would you like to play a game?

plogo posted:

I would prefer an aggregation of polls rather than just the yougov poll, but it seems to me that Biden is doing okay with younger voters relative to older voters.

https://www.economist.com/president-joe-biden-polls

A big part of this is that the GOP is not a real alternative for most younger people

They will either hold their nose and vote Dem or go independent or just opt out of the system at all

# ? Jul 13, 2023 16:44

Blind Pineapple: Oct 27, 2010; For The Perfect Fruit 'n' Kaman

1 part gin
1 part pomegranate syrup
Fill with pineapple juice
Serve over crushed ice; College Slice

Willa Rogers posted:

What are you guys sussing out from the Kids These Days in your universe? And if you were a political strategist, what would you suggest that Democrats do to woo the young'uns?

I don't think anyone is excited about Biden, but once Trump is front and center again, Biden will seem a lot more appealing. One of the biggest drivers of "both sides-ism" today among young people (and I can even relate to this at the ancient age of 36) is that literally no one in power is remotely close to their age or has a non-boomer worldview. Still, a critical mass of "lesser of two evil" voters, favors Dems in presidential elections.

One seemingly easy thing Biden could do appeal to the young working class is actually be the pro-union guy he says he is. Unionism is on the rise and if he were visibly supporting the high profile strikes, it would send the message that he does care about the working class. I know a lot of the real legal changes that are needed have to go through congress so lol, but he could at least put himself out there.

The Dems need more young, exciting, and hardline senate candidates more than anything. We saw the landslide potential when Obama cultivated that image, we just need people who have the principles to not sell out once they actually get the power.

# ? Jul 13, 2023 16:48

Killer robot: Sep 6, 2010; I was having the most wonderful dream. I think you were in it!; Pillbug

the_steve posted:

The bolded parts are what stick out the most immediately to me, considering we live in a world where Roe v. Wade was overturned under a Democratic administration and anti-trans legislation and rhetoric is ramping back up to levels that I don't think we've seen in quite a number of years.

Dems have had decades and multiple presidencies to codify Roe v. Wade. I'll admit, I was very vocal about how I didn't believe there was a snowball's chance in hell of it ever getting overturned in the first place, but I'm also not a career politician whose job involves seeing the writing on the walls that us normal idiots don't get to look at, I'm sure the folks with actual access to the levers of power saw it coming and still let it happen.

It's very easy to see them as hopeless losers (or deliberate losers) when they keep "TECHNICALLY" winning, but somehow the Republicans keep managing to go home with the trophy.

I remember how "Surely left-leaning voters will remember Roe v. Wade died under a Democratic administration" was a popular argument for why 2022's red wave was going to even bigger than 2010's. Sure a lot of that was just whispering campaign stuff, but it still turned out most voters don't really think that way.

# ? Jul 13, 2023 16:49

plogo: Jan 20, 2009

FlamingLiberal posted:

A big part of this is that the GOP is not a real alternative for most younger people

They will either hold their nose and vote Dem or go independent or just opt out of the system at all

Yeah I agree with that, but in the past few months Biden's approval with younger people has been skyrocketing while it is stagnant with older people. Given the larger share of the electorate and the higher turnout of older people, that seems to be the more important strategic question.

# ? Jul 13, 2023 16:50

Leon Trotsky 2012: Aug 27, 2009; YOU CAN TRUST ME!*

_{*Israeli Government-affiliated poster}

Blind Pineapple posted:

One seemingly easy thing Biden could do appeal to the young working class is actually be the pro-union guy he says he is. Unionism is on the rise and if he were visibly supporting the high profile strikes, it would send the message that he does care about the working class. I know a lot of the real legal changes that are needed have to go through congress so lol, but he could at least put himself out there.

The unionization rate is actually continuing to fall. It has fallen slower since 2021, but it is still falling year to year. There have just been several high-profile union successes and NLRB rulings in recent years due to both changes Biden made at the NLRB and things completely unrelated to anything he has done.

There are technically more people in unions overall, but that is mostly because of population increases. The unionization rate has declined every year since 1983.

quote:

The union membership rate�the percent of wage and salary workers who were members of unions� was 10.1 percent in 2022, down from 10.3 percent in 2021, the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics reported today. The number of wage and salary workers belonging to unions, at 14.3 million in 2022, increased by 273,000, or 1.9 percent, from 2021. This disproportionately large increase in the number of total wage and salary employment compared with the increase in the number of union members led to a decrease in the union membership rate.

https://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/union2.pdf

Leon Trotsky 2012 fucked around with this message at 17:01 on Jul 13, 2023

# ? Jul 13, 2023 16:53

Mellow Seas: Oct 9, 2012; Can't post for 10 years!

Willa Rogers posted:

Yes, his approvals are fine among younger voters, but as Della Volpe said, it's indicators such as the number of young voters identifying as Democrats & also of younger voters seeing politics as a meaningful way to create change, which he has cited as precursors of younger-voter turnout.

lol, here is an article about Della Volpe predicting doom for Democrats because they alienated the youth� from April 2022. https://www.politico.com/news/2022/04/10/democrats-youth-vote-2022-midterms-john-della-volpe-00024264

That doesn�t mean he�s wrong, of course, nor is he actually saying that the party is destined to underperform with youth - just that there are some possible indicators of it happening. But maybe the guy whose career is built around �I know how to get young people to vote� has an incentive to play up the tenuousness of that support a bit. In any case, according to the linked article he worked on the Biden 2020 campaign and many people in the administration value his analysis, so his advice will certainly be heeded.

# ? Jul 13, 2023 16:53

Mellow Seas: Oct 9, 2012; Can't post for 10 years!

zoux posted:

But this is the opposite of what the one single professor who provided the entire premise for that Dems in Disarray article said?

Look, his popularity took a bad dip in our possibly-unreliable survey of a demographic that is nearly impossible to poll accurately, a year and a half ago, so that means two years minimum of mandatory stories about how the kids hate Dems now.

# ? Jul 13, 2023 16:55

7c Nickel: Apr 27, 2008

The Youth cannot be specifically activated. They are not waiting for someone with (your) exciting politics. Every single time, their participation tracks along the same lines as the rest of the populace. They didn't turn out for Bernie, and they won't turn out for the next person to place their hopes on them.

# ? Jul 13, 2023 16:56

Willa Rogers: Mar 11, 2005

Blind Pineapple posted:

I don't think anyone is excited about Biden, but once Trump is front and center again, Biden will seem a lot more appealing. One of the biggest drivers of "both sides-ism" today among young people (and I can even relate to this at the ancient age of 36) is that literally no one in power is remotely close to their age or has a non-boomer worldview. Still, a critical mass of "lesser of two evil" voters, favors Dems in presidential elections.

One seemingly easy thing Biden could do appeal to the young working class is actually be the pro-union guy he says he is. Unionism is on the rise and if he were visibly supporting the high profile strikes, it would send the message that he does care about the working class. I know a lot of the real legal changes that are needed have to go through congress so lol, but he could at least put himself out there.

The Dems need more young, exciting, and hardline senate candidates more than anything. We saw the landslide potential when Obama cultivated that image, we just need people who have the principles to not sell out once they actually get the power.

Thank you for the good-faith response.

I agree that Biden could & should stake out an appeal to younger working-class voters (with the added benefit of also attracting older working-class voters) and also that having younger & more energized senate candidates would help him.

But the Senate has become, and to an extent has always been, a sinecure that its occupants are loath to cede once they're in. Hell, even the House is skewing older; I read about Grace Napolitano retiring & was surprised to see that she's 86 years old.

According to NBC News, the current Congress is the oldest since 1789:

quote:

The 118th Congress enters Capitol Hill as one of the oldest in the past century, according to an NBC News analysis of data from the @unitedstates project, a group of journalists and researchers who track historical and current Congress-related information. In fact, of all of the Congresses since 1789, this is the second-oldest Senate and the third-oldest House.

The average age of the 118th Congress is half a year younger than the 117th. But historical data shows this is an anomaly, as both the Senate and the House have aged significantly in the past four decades: the Senate by about 12 years, and the House by 9 years. By comparison, the median age in the U.S. has increased nearly 9 years since 1980.

# ? Jul 13, 2023 16:57

Main Paineframe: Oct 27, 2010

Honestly, the fact that younger voters are even being regarded as a political force speaks to how either politics has fundamentally changed or Biden is in deep trouble (or the politics reporters are just bored). Young people typically aren't a large or reliable voting cohort, and candidates that are overwhelmingly popular among young people tend to find that their predictions of huge youth turnout completely failed to materialize.

# ? Jul 13, 2023 16:57

koolkal: Oct 21, 2008; this thread maybe doesnt have room for 2 green xbox one avs

I think the election is largely going to come down to how the economy changes over the next year and change

People say it's always about the economy but it seems like it will actually be the biggest driver by far this cycle

And the Federal Reserve is the biggest factor in that right now since Congress is deadlocked

# ? Jul 13, 2023 16:58

Professor Beetus: Apr 12, 2007; They can fight us
But they'll never Beetus

Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:

The unionization rate is actually continuing to fall. It has fallen slower since 2021, but it is still falling year to year. There have just been several high-profile union successes and NLRB rulings in recent years due to both changes Biden made at the NLRB and things completely unrelated to anything he has done.

There are technically more people in unions overall, but that is mostly because of population increases. The unionization rate has declined every year since 1983.

https://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/union2.pdf

I almost didn't join the union when I started my new job because the union presenter was terrible and couldn't answer a single basic question I had. Instead I decided to join the union and get more involved and try to get in there somehow, because I came up with a better union pitch in my shower.

# ? Jul 13, 2023 16:59

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# ? May 25, 2024 20:02

Willa Rogers: Mar 11, 2005

Killer robot posted:

I remember how "Surely left-leaning voters will remember Roe v. Wade died under a Democratic administration" was a popular argument for why 2022's red wave was going to even bigger than 2010's. Sure a lot of that was just whispering campaign stuff, but it still turned out most voters don't really think that way.

Really? Because I remember it as the opposite: Democrats feeling energized that they'd secured a winning issue that would propel voters to the polls, a strategy that mostly was borne out by the midterms.

# ? Jul 13, 2023 17:01

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > USCE 2023: Please let them shove a camera up your butt

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