|
You need bad affixes or bad roles or else you’d get perfect gear in like 20 minutes
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2023 19:25
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 24, 2024 07:03 |
|
|
It's called a tradeoff.
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2023 19:25
|
|
|
why doesn the first dropped item in the game give me 10,000% to every stat in the game blizzard wtf is this
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2023 19:26
|
|
|
Verviticus posted:actually yeah euphronius posted:You need bad affixes or bad roles or else you’d get perfect gear in like 20 minutes I think the ideal balance is to have so many good options you pick the one that personally appeals to you or syncs with your current character and build, not to have 50+% poo poo and to instantly bin anything that has it. 
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2023 19:26
|
|
|
The Ol Spicy Keychain posted:probably because it would be idiotic to invalidate all other items in the game by making uniques BiS for every slot like your extremely high IQ posts are suggesting I have a weird infinimist blood-based build that uses minions, and getting the ammy that made my minions nova every time I blood surge was a huge and very fun upgrade for that specific build, since it lets me overpower the entire screen. But, it's definitely not the "optimal" item for the slot, both in the sense of only being good for a niche application, and in the sense of that application not actually being better than other options (bone spear reigns supreme).
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2023 19:28
|
|
|
Uniques should have more crazy fun aspects. I don't give a drat if I'm giving up 30% vuln/crit damage to use it. That's the game presenting me with an option and me having to make a choice.
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2023 19:29
|
|
|
American McGay posted:Uniques should have more crazy fun aspects. I don't give a drat if I'm giving up 30% vuln/crit damage to use it. That's the game presenting me with an option and me having to make a choice. Agreed. They need more stuff like tempest roar etc
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2023 19:30
|
|
|
I'm probably being dumb about expressing it but yeah that's my ideal. Do I want a big chunk of raw stats or some crazy rear end change that's in the same neighborhood? That's a cool trade off.
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2023 19:31
|
|
|
Doomykins posted:I think the ideal balance is to have so many good options you pick the one that personally appeals to you or syncs with your current character and build, not to have 50+% poo poo and to instantly bin anything that has it. You would still have perfect gear (or near perfect ) in 20 mins
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2023 19:31
|
|
|
I mean what if every glove or whatever dropped with perfect rolls and each affix was tailored to maximizing your damage.
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2023 19:32
|
|
|
Doomykins posted:I know we're joking about Blizzard devs and all but I think we should expect those who make a system to understand how it generally works. I could understand if they don't have the data you get from letting millions of people brute force test as well as theorycrafters run wild but anything else is suggesting they design by guessing, lol. I've played a lot of different loot based games and have found myself feeling this way in basically every single one of them. Which kind of leads me to the conclusion that it actually is harder to design this stuff from scratch than it seems. 100% agreed that there just too many bad/duplicate stats though, and it makes the rng far too harsh imo. It would be one thing if I could reliably get even 3 out of 4 of the stats I need on an item and the chase was about getting high rolls on those stats. But I have gone like two weeks without seeing a ring with even 2 appropriate stats because there are so many redundant stats clogging up the loot pool. Like, why have crit damage AND crit damage in werewolf/werebear form AND crit damage with earth/lightning skills? That poo poo sucks! It's not even like they made the specific ones roll higher in exchange for being more limited, except on the defensive stats. What's the point of having +damage and +damage to poisoned targets and +physical damage when they all go in the same bucket and are therefore functionally interchangeable?
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2023 19:33
|
|
|
You'd still upgrade things as you level and enter new number ranges but yeah I get it.euphronius posted:I mean what if every glove or whatever dropped with perfect rolls and each affix was tailored to maximizing your damage. That'd be a hell of a strawman I guess. It's almost like there's a possibility of compromise instead of a Y/N switch.
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2023 19:34
|
|
|
I agree they could have better and more original bad stats. Is light radius in the game ??
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2023 19:34
|
|
|
euphronius posted:You would still have perfect gear (or near perfect ) in 20 mins No you wouldn’t. If everything is good, that doesn’t mean it’s good for you or for the kind of build you want to enable. Hades did an excellent job with the boons, for example. Really none of them are bad, but when you find what you want, the power spike is huge. Enabling synergies should be the chase, not avoiding pointless garbage.
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2023 19:35
|
|
|
I'm a big fan of weird, esoteric and clunky stats for specific contrarian types of players(me) so unironically agree. Bad as in "it's weird but it works if you try" not bad as in +damage after you kill an elite(that you want good damage to kill and lmao 4 seconds.)
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2023 19:35
|
|
|
Bring back "hit causes monster to flee" on melee weapons, level requirement reduced by 2, and increased potion pickup radius.
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2023 19:38
|
|
|
unattended spaghetti posted:No you wouldn’t. In fairness though, Hades isn't balanced around incrementally progressing your character over a hundred hours. Even if you get a wildly OP combo and smash one run, you start the next one back at square one and have fairly limited ability to determine what boons you'll get.
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2023 19:39
|
|
|
I think some of the really bad affixes like shrine duration buff should get axed, and vuln being so good is something that needs to be fixed, but otherwise i like the gear system and have had to make tradeoffs, and getting a really good roll item feels special
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2023 19:40
|
|
|
Anybody got a good build to get the Sorc achievement "Elemental Artist — Kill 20 enemies with each Element in 30 seconds."?
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2023 19:42
|
|
|
unattended spaghetti posted:No you wouldn’t. Hades was really truly masterfully well done in the department of tons of builds and abilities that all felt fantastic to play. More games should learn from it!
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2023 19:43
|
|
|
Aexo posted:Anybody got a good build to get the Sorc achievement "Elemental Artist — Kill 20 enemies with each Element in 30 seconds."? Find an event that spawns unlimited tiny enemies and use Frost Nova +Ice shards/Chain Lightning/Meteor few times.
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2023 19:44
|
|
|
Path of exile had a hades league . It was pretty decent
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2023 19:45
|
|
|
Hulk Krogan posted:In fairness though, Hades isn't balanced around incrementally progressing your character over a hundred hours. Even if you get a wildly OP combo and smash one run, you start the next one back at square one and have fairly limited ability to determine what boons you'll get. Oh for sure it’s apples and oranges but the principles of affix design still apply. Compressed timespan or no, I think the question of who will need this, or will anyone want this, should be answered by it depends on what you’re doing and yes, respectively. In that way, Hades is a slam dunk. Pruning down the list, increasing viability of all affixes, but still making sure that lots of them are situational for particular specs is pretty much the way it should go imho. That way, you still get things that aren’t useful to you, but hey guess what stash it cause there’s gonna be another build, another class, or another situational scenario where it matters. If anything, it keeps the stupid dopamine treadmill going harder and longer because the rewards keep you interested even if they’re not immediately of value.
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2023 19:45
|
|
|
Also bring back Javelins and throwables, so they can add the "replenish one stack every 8 seconds" affix too.
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2023 19:46
|
|
|
Having +damage and +damage to close and +damage to poisoned would be better if the more situational the stat, the higher the potential value. Unfortunately because vuln and crit are basically the only reliable multipliers on gear affixes and the paragon board lets you stack so much basic damage, everything else kinda sucks in comparison. I think this is the fundamental issue. My ideal would be to have more multiplicative buckets with differences by class as to which are easier/harder to enable. Your tradeoff decision becomes should I invest in enabling a new bucket that isn't easy for me to enable or is it a better use of my limited skillbar, aspect, and paragon slots to boost the buckets I already have? Having a multiplicative stat bucket for non-critical damage with significantly lower roll ranges than critical damage could be interesting, for example - you can stack way more multiplicative damage with the crit option but you need two affixes to reliably get there because you need to actually roll a crit on your hit so you need crit chance too. You'd probably have a situation where the optimal play is non-crit until some gear threshold where crit overtakes. I think that's interesting. I sorta cribbed this from Elemental Overload and Precise Technique in PoE btw, these are not original thoughts.
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2023 19:46
|
|
|
I don’t think any arpg has ever had each stat spread or affix combo on an item be BIS or near BIS for a least one build I can see how that would be nice. But I don’t know if it’s feasible
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2023 19:48
|
|
|
unattended spaghetti posted:Oh for sure it’s apples and oranges but the principles of affix design still apply. Compressed timespan or no, I think the question of who will need this, or will anyone want this, should be answered by it depends on what you’re doing and yes, respectively. In that way, Hades is a slam dunk. Totally. I loved messing with the boons that seemed weaker and figuring out combos that made them shine. I do think the whole setup of world tiers and nightmare tiers is making things in this game feel kind of off. You can basically use any wacky build you want to level or do hell tide, which is cool and good. But anything over like NM50 and you the build variety narrows super fast. Obviously it's normal for there to be a small number of most powerful builds, and for there to be ultra endgame content that basically requires those builds. But Blizzard clearly intended the "real" game to start at wt4/level 60, so it's odd that that's also the point where you kinda run out of anything to do or ways to progress unless you switch to a meta build.
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2023 19:56
|
|
|
Again they largely solved this issue in D3 by having primary and secondary affixes, one thing basically nobody complained about or would've minded them keeping. It makes good, usable items drop more often without letting you have OMG BIS UBER gear in "20 minutes" by narrowing the pools without narrowing the total number of affixes & also narrowing the reroll pool. The itemization in this game is different so it would need a little baking in the oven, but it worked really well. Allowing items to roll a 3rd secondary affix or even very rarely a 3rd primary, but no more than 5 total, is a good way to keep extremely good yellow items viable. You can't slap a legendary aspect on a 5 affixer, but you can slap one on a mediocre 4. Makes it actually worth deciding if this meh afterthought aspect for my build is worth it.
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2023 19:57
|
|
|
Honestly, I'd just like it if there existed one ARPG where you didn't need a mathematics degree and online guidebook to determine what gear is good and what isn't. Why does the character sheet have to be wrong? Couldn't it just be right instead? Why are some affixes additive and some multiplicative with no indication of which is which? Couldn't we just not? Why do descriptions have to be vague? I'd like some specificity, thanks!
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2023 19:58
|
|
|
bio347 posted:Honestly, I'd just like it if there existed one ARPG where you didn't need a mathematics degree and online guidebook to determine what gear is good and what isn't. The game absolutely obfuscates its damage formulas while also bombarding you with gear statblocks that are horrendous to look at, no argument there. But additive has a + and multiplicative has an X. That’s pretty transparent. Though when adding up vuln, you don’t see that vuln itself is multiplicative. That can be resolved by a child window that clears that up. Tbh from a presentation point of view it’s a fuckin’ mess. There’s important facets of core design that to my knowledge are only presented in load screens for gently caress’s sakes.
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2023 20:03
|
|
|
tbh you only need to get into the weeds of stats when you're pushing into nightmare dungeons, which makes sense. If you want to get into higher tiers, you eventually have to learn stuff beyond the surface level mechanics.
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2023 20:10
|
|
|
Maybe I'm blind but I don't see anywhere that just tells me how much damage each skill is Gonna do to an equal level opponent or w.e based on my stats, just a bunch of percentage
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2023 20:13
|
|
|
flashman posted:Maybe I'm blind but I don't see anywhere that just tells me how much damage each skill is Gonna do to an equal level opponent or w.e based on my stats, just a bunch of percentage
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2023 20:15
|
|
|
Hover the skillbar to get a tooltip that sorta does that? It shows the base damage without conditional stuff anyway. You'd need some complicated rear end tool to check off what conditions apply or to simulate a skill rotation or something similar in order to show your actual damage, though. Also, I don't know if the tooltip is even right - I know the character sheet lies sometimes so maybe this does too!
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2023 20:16
|
|
|
flashman posted:Maybe I'm blind but I don't see anywhere that just tells me how much damage each skill is Gonna do to an equal level opponent or w.e based on my stats, just a bunch of percentage
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2023 20:16
|
|
|
Yeah it doesn't say the damage it does
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2023 20:19
|
|
|
bio347 posted:Honestly, I'd just like it if there existed one ARPG where you didn't need a mathematics degree and online guidebook to determine what gear is good and what isn't. Diablo 4 is your game once someone tells you how vuln and crit damage works?? Agreed that they do a piss poor job making this discoverable in game though.
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2023 20:19
|
|
|
Doomykins posted:I think the ideal balance is to have so many good options you pick the one that personally appeals to you or syncs with your current character and build, not to have 50+% poo poo and to instantly bin anything that has it. at the end of the day you're just pulling the WoW 'rested exp' lever anywhere from 1-15 times and re-arranging deck chairs. if they made rares twice as likely to be useful, they'd have to halve the drop rate to get the rate of progress they're aiming for. d4 itemization has issues of course, but i dont think "there are bad affixes" is one of them. unless you want to increase or decrease the rate at which players get strong and beat the various goals in the game, its really hard to fiddle with things like light radius or shrine duration or whatever. i think having bad affixes is actually a better solution than streamlining the game or replacing them with good ones, because its always a bit of a rush when you realize that the hypernerds overlooked light radius or something and its always fun to watch out when they do figure it out and it shakes things up. and the more lovely legacy-style systems in the game, the more likely that is to happen if i was gonna do some things to d4s itemization i would try (its not easy) to aim for like A: uniques should be rarer and there should be more of them, and they should mostly pass the sniff test with regards to affixes - movespeed on boots, no attack speed on gloves that empower a skill that doesnt use attack speed, negatively modified skills should have really powerful effects to justify it B: rares having a lower range of overall impact per affix, but can roll more than 4 occasionally C: magic items should have the diablo 2 quality of being able to roll extremes in stats that you can't get from rares (i dont know why this was abandoned, it was always fun to have a good reason to use a sword with more IAS than you could get on a rare) D: limited loot filters and probably easier item pickup. why isnt there an accessibility option that just doubles the size of item highlights or something id love that
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2023 20:22
|
|
|
flashman posted:Maybe I'm blind but I don't see anywhere that just tells me how much damage each skill is Gonna do to an equal level opponent or w.e based on my stats, just a bunch of percentage That's strange because every one of my character's skills have exact damage numbers and percentage of base damage visible on them (turn on advanced tooltips)
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2023 20:23
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 24, 2024 07:03 |
|
|
bio347 posted:IMO it's entirely fair to compare the state of a game that's a sequel to a game with over a decade of development (which was itself a sequel to a game that now has like two decades of dev) to those predecessors, because everyone probably should've learned something at some point! Umm no. Software development doesn't really work like that. Especially when it comes to games. If you want to compare games that have years of "live" development vs. something that just launch, that's fine but people will call you out on it because it is , in fact, not a fair comparison. That being said, D4 is way better than D3 ever was at any point.
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2023 20:32
|
|