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I did the Koko Crater hike on Oahu and it’s humbling if you’re out of shape. It’s a little bit different since there aren’t stairs and just the old railroad ties at their odd distance apart. I’d love to do the Manitou Incline because I hate myself apparently.
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Jul 14, 2023 14:28
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Sab669 posted:Did he have zero experience with hiking anything with any sort of elevation? I mean I know you said he jogs a lot but like had he never hiked up something even once to know that elevation is just a different animal? piggybacking off this, but the reverse guy is also frustrating. one of the dudes in my backpacking group is way more fit than the rest of us. runs 5 miles a day, works out, plays sports all the time, etc. So he can just fly up and down most terrain. We can't let him lead as he will just end up 150 yards+ ahead of us, and planning itineraries is a nightmare as he only looks at the mileage and ignores elevation. We get into arguments every single time because he will ask why we are only going say, 8 miles, on a certain day. He'll propose going to a different site 8 more miles ahead. When we respond that its a 3k elevation gain and his his addition adds another 2k, he just asks why that matters. bro we are backpacking and even our optimized packs are still ~33lbs we are carrying and its at 7000ft elevation, we don't want to be miserable all day
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Jul 14, 2023 14:45
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xzzy posted:The 65F temp was the start of his problems, he refused sunscreen despite me warning him about the suns intensity. So we started trucking up the trail and about a mile in he started to come down off his high horse and all I could do was laugh. Forced him to sit for 20 minutes and sip water until he felt stable again and we dropped the pace and made it to the tarn and back without issue (but he's got a nasty sunburn for a souvenir, here's hoping that lesson sticks with him). It’s crazy to me that people never think of sunscreen or at least sun shirts. I own like 4 sun shirts and I will wear them even on the hottest day because I’m a ghost and honestly would like to remain that way! I’m obsessed with the Mountain Hardwear Crater lake hoodie, it’s super light and UPF 50.
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Jul 14, 2023 16:11
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I assume the 65F part was implying that he didn't feel like sunscreen was appropriate while it was cool. A surprising amount of people equate sunscreen with hot weather only. I also love sun shirts these days. Doubly so because I burn very easily.
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Jul 14, 2023 17:27
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I really think "SPF shirts" are a gimmick. I've never gotten so much as a light tan through a piece of clothing, let alone a burn. Sure a regular shirt has not been measured and confirmed how much sun it blocks, it might have a looser weave, but it still blocks plenty enough sun to protect the skin.
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Jul 14, 2023 17:33
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alnilam posted:I really think "SPF shirts" are a gimmick. I've never gotten so much as a light tan through a piece of clothing, let alone a burn. Sure a regular shirt has not been measured and confirmed how much sun it blocks, it might have a looser weave, but it still blocks plenty enough sun to protect the skin. I was in this camp until I wore one of these at the beach and got totally destroyed by the sun. The non-faulty one I wore the day before had performed fine.
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Jul 14, 2023 17:37
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alnilam posted:I really think "SPF shirts" are a gimmick. I've never gotten so much as a light tan through a piece of clothing, let alone a burn. Sure a regular shirt has not been measured and confirmed how much sun it blocks, it might have a looser weave, but it still blocks plenty enough sun to protect the skin. as a redhead i have to agree. i have never been burned through clothing.
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Jul 14, 2023 17:38
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Sab669 posted:Did he have zero experience with hiking anything with any sort of elevation? I mean I know you said he jogs a lot but like had he never hiked up something even once to know that elevation is just a different animal? Nope, has spent his whole life around Chicago and Florida.  And yeah putting an SPF rating on clothes is a goofy gimmick but I did buy a sun hoodie with one and love it. It's nice and billowy and means I don't have to goop my skin as much.
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Jul 14, 2023 17:55
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Illegal Japanese Sunscreen is the real move. So much less greasy than American stuff.
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Jul 14, 2023 18:06
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incogneato posted:I assume the 65F part was implying that he didn't feel like sunscreen was appropriate while it was cool. A surprising amount of people equate sunscreen with hot weather only. Isn't it all just more extreme at altitude because of the thinner air? I mean I've gotten sunburned snowboarding in a t-shirt, I know it's not just a temperature thing but am I right that elevation also plays a big factor in when you'd use it?
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Jul 14, 2023 18:25
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as a person of hair color i have found every way possible to be burned and have even burned my scalp through my hair before. always use sunscreen on any exposed skin in full to partial sun if you are going to be out for a while.
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Jul 14, 2023 18:29
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Sab669 posted:Isn't it all just more extreme at altitude because of the thinner air? Yes, the sun is typically more intense at elevation, in a drier column of air (i.e. the western half of the US), and at lower latitudes.
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Jul 14, 2023 18:34
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The cut on sun shirts and hoodies also covers up more skin. I like the little thumb holes in the ones I have.
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Jul 14, 2023 20:08
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Sab669 posted:Isn't it all just more extreme at altitude because of the thinner air? Elevation makes a pretty big difference, roughly 10% increase per 1000m above sea level. Also, just snow by itself does, since it reflects UV very well (80-90+%). If you are in a cirque or valley or otherwise some kind of "bowl" of snow/ice, reflected sunlight can hugely increase the UV you get.
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Jul 14, 2023 20:33
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What confuses me is sun hoodies that are black. Seems like a way to make a good product miserable. Congrats! Less sunburn! And also you get to be like 10F hotter!
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Jul 14, 2023 20:37
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I May not be cool, but I am tacticool 
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Jul 14, 2023 20:51
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I don't know how they do it but I have two Columbia PFG hoodies in black and they keep me quite cool. Great breathability.
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Jul 14, 2023 21:19
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liz posted:It’s crazy to me that people never think of sunscreen or at least sun shirts. I own like 4 sun shirts and I will wear them even on the hottest day because I’m a ghost and honestly would like to remain that way! I’m obsessed with the Mountain Hardwear Crater lake hoodie, it’s super light and UPF 50. Seconding the Crater Lake shout out. I wear one all the time for fly fishing, hiking, and backpacking. Never too hot in it. Plus it really shows off my dad bod.
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Jul 14, 2023 22:17
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More clothing is like the last thing I need right now. Between the stuff I collected from races and randomly buying things over the years I have an entire drawer full of just polyester/nylon/spandex shirts and that’s after getting rid of a bunch. It’s at the point that I’m not sure I’ll wear these things out if I keep rotating through them
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Jul 15, 2023 02:35
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liz posted:It’s crazy to me that people never think of sunscreen or at least sun shirts. I own like 4 sun shirts and I will wear them even on the hottest day because I’m a ghost and honestly would like to remain that way! I’m obsessed with the Mountain Hardwear Crater lake hoodie, it’s super light and UPF 50. I’m with you on that. I prefer to wear a lot more clothing than use copious amounts of sunscreen so that everything is covered. If I’m outside today in the sun, it’ll be all the outdoor hiking stuff like long sleeved shirts and trousers along with a hat. People ask me if I’m comfortable in it and I say that it’s better than wearing sunscreen.
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Jul 15, 2023 02:45
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incogneato posted:I assume the 65F part was implying that he didn't feel like sunscreen was appropriate while it was cool. A surprising amount of people equate sunscreen with hot weather only. The worst sunburn I ever got was in Glencoe in January. Even the underside of my nose got burnt from the sun reflecting off the snow. It was worse than any alpine "tan" I've ever had, because when you're at 3000m in the French summer it's obvious that you should take precautions. But it was -11°C in the carpark, and when do you ever need suncream in Scotland?
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Jul 15, 2023 17:39
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So yesterday was great, my coworker and I set out for Mt Elbert but he wanted to take the scenic route. I told him when we were about an hour into driving that we'd get there around 8 instead of 7 or so like he was thinking so we quickly decided on Mt Princeton without looking too closely at the description on Alltrails. 3.5 miles to the summit it said, only 3300 feet of climbing. We parked at the lower trailhead and walked up a road and after 4 miles found the start of the trail, oops. Turns out people can park about a mile from the trailhead if there's room near some radio towers. In total it was almost 7 miles one way and 5200 feet of climbing. Pretty cool location though    When we first got to the trail we found a guy just puking his guts out. He was with another dude but was completely unprepared. Had one water bottle and nothing else. I dunno if they had started real early and done the whole thing or if he got sick early and they turned around. He was almost out of water so I gave him a liter and a gel pack to make it the mile or so back to their cars. Also reading the reviews on Alltrails is kinda hilarious, there's a lot of people who whine about the terrain and how crappy it was. There was maybe a couple hundred feet where things had eroded pretty good, but other than that it was solid rock and easy to figure out where to go. I think a lot of people who do these mountains have never been on a hike where there was no trail whatsoever or had to battle a thousand feet of scree
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Jul 17, 2023 03:38
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Reviewing trails is the funniest thing to me. Notes about trail conditions are great, but people will rate a trail 1 star like they want to speak to its manager.
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Jul 17, 2023 13:58
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Occasionally you'll find a route on alltrails where someone went bushwacking and uploaded the GPS track and the reviews will be savage. The description is usually pretty clear about it too and people still get so mad. I don't think it's the smartest move to publish one's random off trail excursions but people should also do some sanity checks before heading for the trailhead.
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Jul 17, 2023 14:12
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Reviews can be helpful for preparation, but some of them are just silly. I did a trail recently where multiple recent reviews mentioned "bring extra socks and shoes because of the creek crossings". I was prepared for the worst. And then I did the creek crossings (right after a good week of rain) and I couldn't figure out how people were getting wet. There were gigantic rocks and logs perfectly positioned for you to walk across. It was like you'd have to try to get wet.
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Jul 17, 2023 14:14
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I do a lot of volunteer trail work and you would be surprised by how many people just assume there’s this well-funded entity that is responsible for all trails everywhere instead of it being a rag-tag mish-mash of local, state, fed, and volunteers. A lot of the closest hiking areas around Denver are part of the Denver Mountain Parks system and they do not have anyone on staff for trail work, so it’s all handled by volunteer outfits on shoestring budgets. We can’t exactly go out and groom every trail every season, so they’re going to have to deal with having some of the less-used trails a little washed out occasionally.
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Jul 17, 2023 17:46
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Volunteer trail work rules.
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Jul 17, 2023 18:18
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If I lived somewhere with real trails I'd build up my fat bike as a trail work bike. Mainly because it would be cool to rack mount a chainsaw, but also because it would be helpful and worth doing.
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Jul 17, 2023 18:19
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We hooked up with the colorado mountain club and they have a trail maintenance group, they put thousands of hours a year into taking care of trails around the state. I think that's pretty cool. https://www.cmc.org/conservation/stewardship It's something I've always wanted to help out with and probably will, I just need to get better at lugging heavy tools around at altitude. Fuckin cardio, just can't get as much as I need.
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Jul 17, 2023 18:23
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Fitzy Fitz posted:Reviewing trails is the funniest thing to me. Notes about trail conditions are great, but people will rate a trail 1 star like they want to speak to its manager. Yeah some of the 1 star reviews are funny, like with any product or business review a lot of the 1 stars are weird curmudgeons who tell their life story as a leadup to the review and use CAPS to emphasize how RUDE somebody was to them. But I do think in principle reviewing trails could make sense, I mean some trails are just more spectacular than others, right? If alltrails is really supposed to have all the trails, in theory it would be nice if one star meant a miserable slog, 3 stars meant a lovely walk in the woods, 4 stars meant some very nice views, and 5 starts meant mind blowing. Of course that's not how it ends up... but I bet at least if you sorted by rating, the top rated hikes in an area would probably indeed be pretty great. It's like, climbing guides have two ratings: difficulty (5.10b or V4 or whatever), and awesomeness, usually out of 4 stars. And there can be difficult climbs that just aren't that fun or cool, and easy ones that are awesome. I've climbed 4-star 5.6s (very easy) that even elite climbers will agree are just fun as hell, despite offering no significant challenge at all to an experienced climber.
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Jul 17, 2023 18:26
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xzzy posted:We hooked up with the colorado mountain club and they have a trail maintenance group, they put thousands of hours a year into taking care of trails around the state. I think that's pretty cool. You should do it! I’ve been working with VOC and the work can range from very strenuous to basically backyard gardening. Even when we’re doing things like rock work you still need someone on the team to set the tread and the like. Carrying the tools isn’t all that bad unless you volunteer to tote the rock bar (don’t take the rock bar) withak posted:Volunteer trail work rules. 
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Jul 17, 2023 18:37
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If you are in the SF Bay area and want to camp and work on trails with other weirdos: https://www.v-o-cal.org/
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Jul 17, 2023 19:22
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The Yelpification of everything is pretty lame, I think it's ok if something isn't five star every time. But I also like being able to make it up as I go since you can do that in Anza Borrego Desert State Park so the idea of maintained trails isn't something on my priority list.
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Jul 17, 2023 19:49
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I did some trail work with the Idaho Trails Association a few times and it was pretty fun each time. I managed to rope some of my coworkers into it too. Probably gonna do it again in the spring if there’s some projects in the area
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Jul 17, 2023 23:38
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The Aardvark posted:The Yelpification of everything is pretty lame, I think it's ok if something isn't five star every time. On the other hand, it does give rise to some fantastic art. https://ambersharedesign.com/products/subpar-parks-national-park-one-star-review-print (Not trying to advertise, it just puts a smile on my face every time I see one of these. Who goes to the Grand Canyon and is like “pfffffffft! this sucks”)
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Jul 18, 2023 16:01
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Disappointed the glacier one isn't complaining there aren't actually any glaciers (anymore). The arches and north cascades ones made me laugh though.
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Jul 18, 2023 16:13
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waffle enthusiast posted:On the other hand, it does give rise to some fantastic art. https://ambersharedesign.com/products/subpar-parks-national-park-one-star-review-print Lol these are pretty good, I like the Tetons one best I think
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Jul 18, 2023 16:40
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waffle enthusiast posted:On the other hand, it does give rise to some fantastic art. https://ambersharedesign.com/products/subpar-parks-national-park-one-star-review-print These are great and I'm considering buying some of the ones I've visited. The public lands one also has some gems https://ambersharedesign.com/produc...&pr_seq=uniform
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Jul 18, 2023 16:43
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WoodrowSkillson posted:These are great and I'm considering buying some of the ones I've visited. The public lands one also has some gems "Too orange too spiky" for Bryce lmao
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Jul 18, 2023 18:02
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Morbus posted:"Too orange too spiky" for Bryce lmao being from Michigan isle royale getting "no cell service and bad wifi" rules as does "all the attractions are rocks" at Pictured Rocks national Lakeshore and "not much to do" at the Sleeping Bear Dunes national lakeshore Like drat you're telling me the island in lake superior that is the least visited national park has bad cell service?
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Jul 18, 2023 18:47
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