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kvx687 posted:I haven't mathed it out, but don't the reapers have the best anti-structure DPS of the infantry units? If you're running a bioball I could see it being useful to build some as a secondary control group, your MMM squad runs in first to attract attention and kill the enemy units, then the reapers run in after to focus down defensive structures, pylons, or other high-value targets. Reapers do about 16 dps to structures in the Wings campaign. Marines do about 10.5 dps when stimmed. The edge goes to reapers, given that most structures are armored (which has a significant impact on the low damage/shot marine). Even still, I don't think that there are many situations where you'd want reapers on the campaign, since marines are cheaper, can be made in a reactored rax, and are the most multipurpose unit in the game. JohnKilltrane posted:But man. I only played Terran in multiplayer for a short stint in WoL, but pulling off a good harass with Reapers was so fun and satisfying. Even if I ended up still losing the game, I didn't care. The adrenaline from bounding up the cliffs and laying waste to a mineral line was enough for me. There was a year (2018 iirc) where reapers were so strong in multiplayer, and one player in particular was so good that he singlehandedly got them nerfed. He just made two or three barracks and won with reapers. Consistently. In all matchups.
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Jul 13, 2023 03:30
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kvx687 posted:I haven't mathed it out, but don't the reapers have the best anti-structure DPS of the infantry units? If you're running a bioball I could see it being useful to build some as a secondary control group, your MMM squad runs in first to attract attention and kill the enemy units, then the reapers run in after to focus down defensive structures, pylons, or other high-value targets. You could do that, or you could just build more mmm with your money and flatten the enemy even harder because they still rip through buildings just fine in sufficient numbers.
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Jul 13, 2023 03:35
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Reapers also do have a niche use on the next mission, when going for specific achievements.Synastren posted:There was a year (2018 iirc) where reapers were so strong in multiplayer, and one player in particular was so good that he singlehandedly got them nerfed. He just made two or three barracks and won with reapers. Consistently. In all matchups. This has happened twice. The first was immediately on release, where a Terran player named MorroW won SC2's first major tournament with 5 rax reaper, which was horrifically overpowered and unstoppable vs Zerg, and TvZ was a borderline unwinnable match-up at the time even without it! Then they got nerfed and weren't used for the rest of Wings of Liberty, except for qxc doing some late-game reaper harassment that was somewhat of a trademark of his late game TvP (make a squad of reapers, send them around the map, jump into the Protoss base while they're out of town and blow up important buildings with the reaper's powerful grenades), but that was about it. Then when they got reworked in Heart of the Swarm they were very strong in early game harassment, but people eventually learned how to deal with them and what concessions had to be made (like Zerg players not skipping early zerglings). In Legacy of the Void, they got a better, faster version of the campaign grenade/mine thing upgrade, and yeah, Terran players with good micro (aka the best in the world) could win with just reapers, as the grenade was so strong and had such a short cooldown that it could be spammed, making it impossible for ground units to actually kill reapers. It was harder than it sounds, but the top Terrans could legit beat like, any Zerg in the world with just reapers, so they had to be nerfed again. Now they're back as a unit you see 1 of every game to get vital early scouting and (possibly but unlikely) some worker kills. SoundwaveAU fucked around with this message at 07:16 on Jul 13, 2023 |
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Jul 13, 2023 07:10
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After talking with Bisby, I come bearing a gift: A full 500k playthrough of the Lost Viking, for your viewing pleasure. The video quality isn't perfect, this is because my capture device did this to me when I recorded:  Anyways, it should work to show off of how the minigame works and how to beat it. Have a good one!
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Jul 14, 2023 06:14
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TeeQueue posted:After talking with Bisby, I come bearing a gift: Oh hey I've been wai-56 loving minutes. there's a reason i didn't do it myself Anyways, I'll edit it into the second Intermission.
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Jul 14, 2023 06:17
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56 minutes and most of it spent manually mashing the spacebar for the increased firing rate. I bled for this LP. Well ok they were muscle cramps but the point remains. 
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Jul 14, 2023 06:19
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TeeQueue posted:56 minutes and most of it spent manually mashing the spacebar for the increased firing rate. The worst part is that GiantGrantGames, as part of his 24 hour 100% achievement stream, also did the 500k lost vikings achievement, and he specifically set up a macro to press the spacebar for him. So you know, there's the record of someone else who did it like 2 days ago that you could have just linked to. (I'm sorry and applaud your sacrifice)
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Jul 14, 2023 07:11
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I was sure you are linking to GGG 24h achievement run, but you did it yourself, you absolute madman.
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Jul 14, 2023 11:07
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I have discovered that in SC2's map editor, there's a doodad of... a hologram of Nova doing the WoW night elf stripper dance. -_- It gets used in Mass Recall, too.
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Jul 14, 2023 14:53
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Cythereal posted:I have discovered that in SC2's map editor, there's a doodad of... a hologram of Nova doing the WoW night elf stripper dance. -_- It's visible in the Hyperion's bar, upstairs where Tosh hangs out.
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Jul 14, 2023 15:12
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BlazetheInferno posted:It's visible in the Hyperion's bar, upstairs where Tosh hangs out. I thought that was an actual hologram of a night elf, not Nova.  God drat it, Blizzard.
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Jul 14, 2023 15:13
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A couple things from earlier on that are interesting to me. First, from the intermission after Smash and Grab, when Matt tells Tychus about what happened to Kerrigan and Tychus says "And Jimmy feels responsible," it's one of a few hints throughout the game of a slightly more interesting characterization for Raynor? This idea that he isn't depressed about losing Kerrigan so much as he's suffering from survivor's guilt. It feels very much in character for Jimmy to blame himself for not going after her and abandoning her and therefore feel like he's responsible for what she's become and every atrocity she does, the blood is partially on his hands. Not that I think he's to blame, but he's just the kind of guy that holds himself responsible, even when it defies all reason to do so. And it gives you this glimpse into what could have been, making the story in this mad quest fuelled by Raynor's obsession with correcting the past and his inability to forgive himself. And while that's not what it's ultimately about, if you take WoL in a vacuum and kinda squint a little, you can almost make it work. It's a shame HotS kinda smashes all that to pieces. The other thing that's interesting is I realized that I've played this game I don't know how many times, and I don't actually have any idea what's happening in the first mission. Did Raynor just say to his crew "Kiss my rear end, I'll be at JoeyRay's" and sit around drinking until he got angry and/or sloshed enough to launch open rebellion?
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Jul 14, 2023 16:51
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JohnKilltrane posted:A couple things from earlier on that are interesting to me. First, from the intermission after Smash and Grab, when Matt tells Tychus about what happened to Kerrigan and Tychus says "And Jimmy feels responsible," it's one of a few hints throughout the game of a slightly more interesting characterization for Raynor? This idea that he isn't depressed about losing Kerrigan so much as he's suffering from survivor's guilt. It feels very much in character for Jimmy to blame himself for not going after her and abandoning her and therefore feel like he's responsible for what she's become and every atrocity she does, the blood is partially on his hands. Not that I think he's to blame, but he's just the kind of guy that holds himself responsible, even when it defies all reason to do so. There are actually hints of this as early as the end of the Terran Campaign, when at the start of the mission, after his little "we're on our own now" speech, there's a brief pause, and then... "drat it. I shouldn't have let her go alone."
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Jul 14, 2023 17:03
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JohnKilltrane posted:The other thing that's interesting is I realized that I've played this game I don't know how many times, and I don't actually have any idea what's happening in the first mission. Did Raynor just say to his crew "Kiss my rear end, I'll be at JoeyRay's" and sit around drinking until he got angry and/or sloshed enough to launch open rebellion? They wanted the cool moment and didn't put in any setup because that's effort. He could have been setting up a prison break or heist or raid, but he was just chilling and shooting TVs for effect.
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Jul 14, 2023 17:19
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Cythereal posted:I have discovered that in SC2's map editor, there's a doodad of... a hologram of Nova doing the WoW night elf stripper dance. -_- Is it actually labeled Nova? Sheesh.
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Jul 14, 2023 18:45
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Supposedly it is her hobby. Because of course it is.
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Jul 14, 2023 19:34
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JohnKilltrane posted:A couple things from earlier on that are interesting to me. First, from the intermission after Smash and Grab, when Matt tells Tychus about what happened to Kerrigan and Tychus says "And Jimmy feels responsible," it's one of a few hints throughout the game of a slightly more interesting characterization for Raynor? This idea that he isn't depressed about losing Kerrigan so much as he's suffering from survivor's guilt. It feels very much in character for Jimmy to blame himself for not going after her and abandoning her and therefore feel like he's responsible for what she's become and every atrocity she does, the blood is partially on his hands. Not that I think he's to blame, but he's just the kind of guy that holds himself responsible, even when it defies all reason to do so. Also, you have Raynor probably blaming himself for Mengsk's rise to power in the first place. Raynor's raid in Terran 4 is what got the Sons of Korhal the schematics for psi emitters, which made Antiga and Tarsonis possible. From a certain point of view, you could make an argument that Raynor is indirectly responsible for everyone who died when the Zerg overran both worlds. That argument is, in my opinion, flatly bullshit, but I find it easy to imagine Raynor drifting into that line of thinking. He was directly supporting Mengsk through many of the Sons' toughest battles as they overthrew the Confederacy and took over, and Raynor then in Brood War outright saved Mengsk from execution by the UED (on Kerrigan's orders, no less). I would imagine that Raynor's not only blaming himself for leaving Kerrigan to die, he's blaming himself for not stopping Mengsk before he took power in general.
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Jul 14, 2023 19:47
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Protagonist who blames himself for things that really aren't his fault is a classic character archetype. They could have easily written the story as Raynor coming to terms with and forgiving himself for the part he played in both Mengsk and Kerrigan's evil. Would have been a bit generic but perfectly serviceable
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Jul 14, 2023 22:11
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I gotta admit, I would eat up a scene where Raynor delivers the killshot while saying "Goodbye, Sarah." in a healing sort of way.
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Jul 14, 2023 22:20
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Felinoid posted:I gotta admit, I would eat up a scene where Raynor delivers the killshot while saying "Goodbye, Sarah." in a healing sort of way. Hell, you could go a lot more interesting with "the prophecied savior is dead, what the hell do we do now and the slow realization that prophecies are just a load of rubbish or ancient propaganda anyway and we don't need no Chosen Ones" than what we actually get. anilEhilated fucked around with this message at 23:11 on Jul 14, 2023 |
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Jul 14, 2023 23:07
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Covert 2: Welcome to the Jungle Video: Welcome to the Jungle  Today will be... rough.   Much prettier than Redstone, yeah? I don't much like fightin' protoss if I can avoid it.  Unlike Smash and Grab, where the Tal'darim had to split their focus between us and the zerg, here they'll only have eyes on us.    Alright, cowboy. I'll get the Goliath schematics loaded so we can build more.  Well, our SCVs'll be able to haul the terrazine. We just got to keep 'em protected.    We start the mission with just 2 Marines, but three of our shiny new Goliaths.  16x2 damage will take a good bit out of any protoss fliers.  After a few moments Tosh will flag all the altars on the map.  There are 13 altars and we need 7, which gives us a good bit of leeway on victory.  The first few minutes are spent just building up forces.  Hold on now. We just need some of this gas here, and we'll be long gone before you know it.And at the 3 minute mark we get noticed by the Tal'darim.  You can see some teal protoss forces moving around some of the Altar sites on the minimap.  Most of them are just the good old Scout, to better show off our anti-air Goliaths. But they have far more up their sleeves.  They send a small attack wave.  Wonderful. The Tal'darim are sealing off the terrazine altars so we can't get at 'em! If they keep it up we won't be able to collect enough.Then instantly start working to cap an altar. The Tal'darim will be constantly sending out sealing waves to stop me. If I can't kill that Probe before that bar hits zero, I'm one step closer to defeat. This makes Welcome to the Jungle surprisingly difficult for how early you can get it, since you have to juggle base defense, defending SCVs while they harvest, keeping the altars clear so you can take them later, and clearing out the map so you can get to the altars. If they decide to hit that altar in the top right? Guess what, I have to fight my way there just to try and kill the Probe before it finishes.   Thankfully this one is sent right outside my base just to warn us about it.  Goliaths are a bit pricy at 150/50 a pop.      I go for a cheeky glitch here, where repeatedly canceling and restarting a capture will break the triggers that cause the protoss to attack your SCVs, but gently caress it up. What you instead have to do is do it on the three altars just north of this while this one is being captured. Whoops!  While clearing those altars out I find the first Relic of this mission. Just think, after this I can finally grab the first protoss research.  It's been just two minutes since the last attempt, and as the mission goes on they'll start targeting more distant altars. Welcome to the Jungle is not a mission you can afford to waste time on.   Good job! That's the first canister filled.Once an SCV finishes they'll automatically take it back, but you can still command them to move somewhere else if they're about to walk into an enemy.  Moving forward, we run into a new protoss trick: Warp-ins. Gateways in SC2 now have the ability to transform into Warp Gates, trading the ability to queue up multiple units to instead deploy a unit anywhere on the map, so long as it has Pylon coverage. Knocking out the Pylon while a unit is being warped in will instantly kill them, but I won't be able to pull it off here...  Because they also have a new flier on hand, the Void Ray. The Void Ray's thing is that its attack gets stronger after hitting the same unit for a few moments. Against normal units, this is just a small bump from 6 damage to 8. However, they also deal anti-Armored damage, and that goes from +4 to +8, making it deal 16 damage to Armored targets. Void Rays attack every 0.6 seconds.  This makes Goliaths a poor choice in their own debut mission, as a single Void Ray targeting them will make them melt in a heartbeat.  Meanwhile Marines can just sit there and take it with zero issue so long as a Medic is backing them.  Sure, it's gonna be harder to keep the Tal'darim off our backs, but the quicker we're done here the sooner we can get off this rock.While all this is going down, I'm capping two of of those alters just below me.  I catch an attack wave heading to my SCVs.  oh gently caress i forgot base defenses  oh god they're sealing an altar  Okay I'm safe. I only need four more altars so letting them take one won't kill me. You have pretty much zero downtime here. You're just constantly getting attacked at one point or another.  This is what a sealed altar looks like.  This time I make sure to actually build some Bunkers.  The second Relic is between these two altars.  Oh look another attack.  Oh look another attack.  I send an SCV out and it ends up walking directly into an enemy base.  Pushing right shows the protoss cheating to warp in a Colossus, the peak of their ground tech which attacks in two AoE lines. Warp-in is restricted to infantry in player hands outside of a campaign exclusive upgrade in Legacy of the Void.  More importantly, it shows the real reason why this mission is so scary: the protoss have access to their full tech tree here. Stall for long enough, and you'll be facing Void Rays and Colossi sporting a full 3/3/3 while your own forces are limited to 1/1. And with poor mission choices, you could easily start this with just Firebats and Reapers! You do not want to stay here any longer than needed.   And while I'm cleaning that up I get hit by, you guess it, another attack wave!  Only now they're packing Void Rays!  Just like that, my army has been trimmed down to a handful of Marines and Marauders.  Oh look, another attack wave as I retreat!  Oh look, another sealing wave!  After building back up a bit, I go knock out this base so I don't have to worry about people pathing through it.  It just has a few Voids and Stalkers guarding it, nothing heavy.  Now, you could take this as an expansion.  But why would you? You're looking at least 400 minerals for the CC, then another 150 for Refineries, then a few more hundred for SCVs, not to mention the build times for all of that. Considering how much pressure you're under, you can't really wait for to make back your investment.  Oh look, another attack wave!  Oh look, another sealing wave!  And now they're sending out two at once!  Thankfully, the two open altars here are all I need, so it doesn't matter if they cap any others.  Oh look, ano-  -ther attack wave!  One SCV finishes up and I send them to a corner of my base. That way, I can keep it safe until I find the last Relic and end the mission as soon as I do.  This one is not an attack wave, and is instead a sealing wave heading back to base after finishing up. I just happened to be in the middle of their return path.  This one is an attack wave, however.  That's the last altar, so now I can go look for the Relic.  By which I mean head directly to where I know it is.   It just has a few guards around it.  This is one of the few missions with an alternate win condition, which is to wipe out every enemy on the map including the enemy base. I will not be doing that. Not when I barely have anything and I'd be going against a fully upgraded protoss base.   And done.     Rocket Queen - Complete the "Welcome to the Jungle" mission in less than 14 minutes on Normal difficulty. BisbyWorl fucked around with this message at 04:53 on Feb 5, 2024 |
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Jul 15, 2023 04:45
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This LP got me to reinstall the game this morning, and I really, really, really dislike this type of mission.
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Jul 15, 2023 05:04
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Since the alternate win condition is cut off: all you have to do is March your army into a hive of dozens of production structures, against a full tech protoss opponent loaded up with psi storm and collosi, and with an ai that aggressively rebuilds any units or buildings you destroy, and raze the whole thing to the ground. It is even more of a pain in the rear end than juggling the cannisters, but you get to feel smug afterward, and isn't that what really matters?
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Jul 15, 2023 05:19
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It really is nice of Tosh to not only point out where each and every Altar is on the map, but actively maintain vision of them for us, so we can see which one is being revealed. Between this and not only revealing all the Mineral sites on Redstone, but also having reinforcements in the area for us, he's been pretty helpful so far, considering we're the ones being hired to help him!
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Jul 15, 2023 05:26
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BlazetheInferno posted:It really is nice of Tosh to not only point out where each and every Altar is on the map, but actively maintain vision of them for us, so we can see which one is being revealed. Hey, he clearly wants the jobs actually done and isn't pulling some bullshit "test" on us or whatever with them. He knows where things are, just doesn't have the means to take care of them, so it's a good deal he's offering.
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Jul 15, 2023 05:29
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It's relatively easy to stop the Protoss from sealing any altars here. The time it takes them to seal one is very generous, and it's just being done by a single probe, so even a few units can focus-fire it down before the defenders can stop you. (The Nightmare mode mod stops this cheese, forcing you to kill all a probe's defenders before you can take it out.) And yeah, you generally don't want to stick around much longer than needed, though I'll generally take the expansion in the center for the extra income. My usual plan of attack is to build up a reasonably large force, then take all four of the altars on the west at once, defending at the choke just to the north. Once they're done and the bonuses claimed, grab the nearest altars to the expansion to finish it off.
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Jul 15, 2023 05:34
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It's been a long time since I played starcraft, but I remember the rule of thumb being to always expand as early as possible, if you can defend it. Happily, the expansion base is centrally placed just ahead of the starter base, so it'll intercept most attacks. As long as most of your defenses are mobile (bioball) then you can move them to the new base for almost no cost. I was really slow at expanding until I started playing multiplayer, but once I got better at it, it made playing the campaign loads easier. Just knowing the optimal SCV numbers (and why) and having a good early/expansion build order make a big difference. It takes 400minerals +2xmineral patchx50 (scvs) to staff up an expansion. I see 6 patches there (instead of the normal 8 expected in multi) so it's only 1000 credits to setup the mining operation. You often don't need to set up vespene mining at expansion bases in the campaign, especially this early when you're spending most of your minerals on more marines. You get ~80 minerals/minute/patch (some light googling says blizzard upped this to ~110 at some point) but using the lower number, in just two minutes you get 960 minerals back. Add a few seconds for the remaining 40 minerals and its all profit. Even as late as you cleared the area, you still had 5 minutes left in the map. Plenty of time for it to pay for itself, even if you set up extra defenses. The level would probably be loads easier if you smash that base and expand to it as soon as possible. The main downside to expanding is the extra time spent managing it. You were already struggling to juggle everything (and this level is designed to make it hard) so not expanding still may have been the right choice in your situation. DoubleNegative posted:This LP got me to reinstall the game this morning, and I really, really, really dislike this type of mission. LLSix fucked around with this message at 05:51 on Jul 15, 2023 |
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Jul 15, 2023 05:48
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LLSix posted:And the harder difficulties really stick the knife in by removing the ability to pause. No queuing up build orders while time is frozen. What? Tell me that's not a real limitation
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Jul 15, 2023 06:17
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Jack-Off Lantern posted:What? It's not, no difficulty lets you straight up freeze the game, but it does cap how low you can take the game speed. On Hard I'm only able to play on Fast or Faster, while Brutal locks you to Faster permanently. On lower difficulties you can drop the speed as far as you can go to work on your macro before dialing it back up when fighting.
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Jul 15, 2023 06:22
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BisbyWorl posted:It's not, no difficulty lets you straight up freeze the game, but it does cap how low you can take the game speed. On Hard I'm only able to play on Fast or Faster, while Brutal locks you to Faster permanently. On lower difficulties you can drop the speed as far as you can go to work on your macro before dialing it back up when fighting. Oh, so you can never pause. That's certainly a decision.
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Jul 15, 2023 06:33
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LLSix posted:Oh, so you can never pause. That's certainly a decision. I mean, you can still, like, pause. But you're not allowed to do anything while paused. Nothing in the game lets you do that.
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Jul 15, 2023 06:35
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BisbyWorl posted:I mean, you can still, like, pause. But you're not allowed to do anything while paused. Nothing in the game lets you do that. Ohhhh,gotcha. I thought there was no pause... They would never not let you pause a singleplayer Game ,ahaha,that would be dumb, right??? I did play all of SC2 singleplayer but I remember none of it
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Jul 15, 2023 06:48
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The only saving grace for this mission on Brutal for me was trying to grab as many altars as possible in one go, since their counterattacks don't really scale up even if you're taking more than one at once. The colossi are such a big problem here so I found the attrition really problematic otherwise.
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Jul 15, 2023 11:44
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For me, the trick to this mission is that the SCVs only need to return the canister to a command center. And command centers can relocate. Say, right next to an altar. Simplifies things quite a bit.
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Jul 15, 2023 12:26
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Reapers are handy here if you're going for the achievement to stop them from capping any altars. A few reapers can easily be suicided to kill the sealing probe. I think if you don't seal off any altars it messes with the AI and it never ramps up in difficulty, so you can take your time clearing the map (except for the Protoss base) and then cap 7 at once. Goliaths btw, are loving dog poo poo. Even if you get both their upgrades in the armory, that only makes them okay in specific circumstances. They're really, REALLY bad in this game. No reason to make them.
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Jul 15, 2023 12:39
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SoundwaveAU posted:Goliaths btw, are loving dog poo poo. Even if you get both their upgrades in the armory, that only makes them okay in specific circumstances. They're really, REALLY bad in this game. No reason to make them.
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Jul 15, 2023 13:09
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Myriad Truths posted:The only saving grace for this mission on Brutal for me was trying to grab as many altars as possible in one go, since their counterattacks don't really scale up even if you're taking more than one at once. The colossi are such a big problem here so I found the attrition really problematic otherwise. Cythereal posted:For me, the trick to this mission is that the SCVs only need to return the canister to a command center. And command centers can relocate. Say, right next to an altar. Simplifies things quite a bit.
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Jul 15, 2023 14:31
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I just realized, trying to get screenshots in a fast-paced map like this must be a nightmare. How are you doing that?
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Jul 15, 2023 15:07
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LLSix posted:I just realized, trying to get screenshots in a fast-paced map like this must be a nightmare. How are you doing that? I just go through my footage in VLC and occasionally hit the screenshot key.
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Jul 15, 2023 16:28
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The only use I found for Goliaths is AA support for siege tanks.
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Jul 15, 2023 16:31
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