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Jul 13, 2023 18:34
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MrNemo posted:On nukes in 40k, the Crusade era space marine destroyers used atomic weapons along with biological and chemical weapons and were meant to be viewed with distaste or outright disgust by their fellows. There's definitely a taboo around those kinds of weapons that seems to transcend annihilation, otherwise the Imperium should just be dropping the Destroyer virus every time the Tyranids show up. The writers have just never really spent any time fleshing that out and just left it as an unearned assumption. From the books I've read, the life-eater virus bombs are last resort, and they will use them on planets they do not want to defend, or know they will lose. I believe they funneled one of the nid hive fleets by virus bombing all the worlds to guide them somewhere specific / starve them. Devastation of Baal maybe?
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Jul 13, 2023 19:26
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Keep in mind that a lot of 40k atomics give off forever radiation.
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Jul 13, 2023 19:32
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No half life ??
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Jul 13, 2023 19:33
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euphronius posted:No half life ??
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Jul 13, 2023 19:37
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it’s all cobalt-thorium-G, you see
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Jul 13, 2023 19:52
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I definitely remember reading in some old lore that Virus bombing everything was disfavoured because it empowered Nurgle.
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Jul 13, 2023 21:31
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Seems rather counterintuitive because a virus bomb is absolute death while Nurgle is all about life and enjoying your decay.
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Jul 13, 2023 21:49
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Deptfordx posted:I definitely remember reading in some old lore that Virus bombing everything was disfavoured because it empowered Nurgle. A gigadeath event would be massive fuel for a ritual. You'd kill the sorcerer's mortal form, but they'd just directly ascend.
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Jul 13, 2023 21:50
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Deptfordx posted:I definitely remember reading in some old lore that Virus bombing everything was disfavoured because it empowered Nurgle. One description I heard from a youtube reading of a book was it literally melted all biological life from complex to single cells and the viruses and other bio weapon stuff themselves didn't really lend to empowering nurgle cause they'd burn out with nothing left.
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Jul 13, 2023 22:03
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Arc Hammer posted:Seems rather counterintuitive because a virus bomb is absolute death while Nurgle is all about life and enjoying your decay. in the horus heresy there is a daemon of nurgle that is the embodiment of the life eater virus
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Jul 13, 2023 22:10
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Chaos is inherently contradictory
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Jul 13, 2023 22:11
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If at the beginning of the Heresy you went and told Malcador or Guilliman or someone that nine legions were going to rebel, who do you think he would have guessed? My guesses: LOYAL: Guilliman and Dorn: Good Boys Fulgrim: The BEST boy Horus: The favorite. Also, why rebel, he already controls everything. Ferrus: Loyal as poo poo, plus obviously going to end up wherever Fulgrim goes Sanguinius: Literal angel Vulkan: Standup guy, had a good first meeting with the Emperor Perturbaro: Not really into big gestures or changing his mind. You can rely on that guy. Corax:...I've got nothing, could go either way here. TRAITOR: Angron: Duh. Night Haunter: Also duh. The two of them were probably going to fight the Imperium regardless of the heresy at some point. Russ: Pretty wild, out of control, early rivalry with Horus Khan: Also wild, very independent, always VROOMing off to somewhere Lion: Almost definitely has Chaos taint somewhere in there, has a creepy homeworld. Lorgar: Just the loving worst. Also, doesn't really fit in with the whole Imperial Truth thing. Alpharius (or Omegon): Can't trust those guys Mortarion: Never got along with the Emperor, raised by xenos sorcerers, the poison thing seems evil-y Magnus: Always messing with poo poo, probably going to get corrupted somewhere in there
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Jul 13, 2023 22:20
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von Metternich posted:If at the beginning of the Heresy you went and told Malcador or Guilliman or someone that nine legions were going to rebel, who do you think he would have guessed? TRAITOR: Horus, BECAUSE he controls everything.
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Jul 13, 2023 22:23
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Who even knows about nurgle in the high lords of Terra Well before the 13th crusade
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Jul 13, 2023 22:40
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von Metternich posted:If at the beginning of the Heresy you went and told Malcador or Guilliman or someone that nine legions were going to rebel, who do you think he would have guessed? My fanfic heresy would be: "Death to the Tyrant-Emperor!" - Magnus starts the heresy in response to Nikea - Angron, Corax, Khan, Mortarion join because they hate authoritarian assholes. Corax in particular has the Lorgar-equivalent role of being the guy who pushes most for it, though he isn't the frontman - Guilliman, Fulgrim, Perturabo join because they want to build utopias and don't believe Emps is going that way anymore - Lorgar joins for the same reasons as canon, but he's a hanger-on pursuing his own agenda and has limited success getting others to join his cult thing vs. "I was only following orders" - Lion, Dorn, Ferrus Manus, Kurze are all various flavours of authoritarian assholes at heart - Horus, Sanguinius and Alpharius have personal loyalty to the Emperor and believe in his kool-aid - Russ is a mix of the two - Vulkan would take the Khan-equivalent role of staying initially neutral and then reluctantly joining the side that won´t get humanity chomped by Chaos euphronius posted:Who even knows about nurgle in the high lords of Terra Probably every single one, even the lame ones like the merchant shipping dude. Pre-Guilliman, High Lords of Terra are literally the guys in charge of everything: they probably know what's in the Dark Cells and own one or two artifacts with the faces of the Lost Primarchs. Even Cain knew that Khorne and Slaanesh were mortal enemies, and despite his Ordo Xenos girlfriend he's still just a Commissar. NihilCredo fucked around with this message at 00:23 on Jul 14, 2023 |
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Jul 14, 2023 00:11
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NihilCredo posted:Probably every single one, even the lame ones like the merchant shipping dude. Pre-Guilliman, High Lords of Terra are literally the guys in charge of everything: they probably know what's in the Dark Cells and own one or two artifacts with the faces of the Lost Primarchs. Not really, according to Emperor's Legion. Lev Tieron, the Chancellor of the Imperial Senate, who was basically high lord in all but name mused at several places that normally even he and the most of the high lords would be purged for learning about the things they learn during the Days of Blindness, but that ship sailed with the Great Rift.
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Jul 14, 2023 13:32
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That epilogue for Echoes of Eternity. I didn't know it was a single page. GOD drat.
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Jul 14, 2023 14:51
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NihilCredo posted:My fanfic heresy would be: I like the idea of Magnus leading a rebellion but Mortarion would automatically be on the opposite side of the rebellion because he hated sorcery. He was the loudest voice pushing for Nikaea to happen. Angron as well - he basically disbanded his Librarius before Nikaea because psykers react badly to the Butcher’s Nails. Perturabo also does not particularly want to build a utopia (at least not as you or I would recognize it). He’s more the “make a desert and call it peace” type. I think that in most scenarios where someone other than Horus turns, it doesn’t end up being 9v9. Only Horus had the charisma to knit together 9 legions in rebellion. Magnus turning after Nikaea would probably bring with him Corax, maybe the Khan, and Lorgar. Fulgrim would be on whatever side Horus (and Ferrus) was on because he was desperate for his brothers’ approval. I can see a scenario where a large scale rebellion causes other, individual, smaller scale rebellions though - in particular, I can see the World Eaters, Night Lords and Iron Warriors breaking off to do their own thing. But without Horus I don’t think you get them as part of a Grand Traitor Alliance.
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Jul 14, 2023 16:09
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The real question is, if Sanguinius turned and became the figurehead of Chaos what would the lines drawn look like then? Loyalists: Russ, Fulgrim, Ferrus and Horus for sure, but past that I am a lot less sure.
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Jul 14, 2023 17:29
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It’s like all of you have never heard of the Dornian Heresy.
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Jul 14, 2023 18:19
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Dark Coil update: Fire Caste was an amazing mindfuck. I love how balls-out crazy the ending is, including the single quickest turnaround with the Tau diplomat's "you can join us" to "what the gently caress is wrong with you people!?" The Angels Resplendent were neat, but the Angels Penitent are absolutely priceless in how awful they are. Their entire philosophy is "if it's good it's actually bad" and this leads to some truly remarkable interactions. I'm on the last proper book, Cult of the Spiral Dawn, and I'm just shoveling the popcorn in anticipation of the escalation. I said this before, but thank y'all so much for recommending Fehervari. Sometimes piecing his stuff together is like, the book equivalent of trying to understand the plot of a Fromsoft game, and I love that poo poo.
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Jul 14, 2023 23:36
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Preechr posted:It’s like all of you have never heard of the Dornian Heresy. I have! It was just written 13 years and a lot of primarch plot and background development ago.
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Jul 15, 2023 01:05
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DAD LOST MY IPOD posted:Angron as well - he basically disbanded his Librarius before Nikaea because psykers react badly to the Butcher’s Nails. He did not. Angron didn't care for psykers and the Nails did a bad number on them, but at the end of the day, he didn't care to enforce Nikea because he had no patience for any strictures of the Imperium and its supposed morals and rules. He just ignored them and let them die out slowly in their shrinking librarius. Until the return to Nuceria, that is. A lot of things changed then.
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Jul 15, 2023 01:50
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Philthy posted:From the books I've read, the life-eater virus bombs are last resort, and they will use them on planets they do not want to defend, or know they will lose. I believe they funneled one of the nid hive fleets by virus bombing all the worlds to guide them somewhere specific / starve them. Devastation of Baal maybe? Kryptman's Gambit. He basically built a fire break via virus bombs and guided the Hive Fleet into the Octarious Sector with the hope that Nids and Orks would burn each other out. Good idea reading the lore going into it, fizzled out into a wet fart because we can't have nice things.
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Jul 15, 2023 04:11
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Calax posted:Kryptman's Gambit. He basically built a fire break via virus bombs and guided the Hive Fleet into the Octarious Sector with the hope that Nids and Orks would burn each other out. The fact that there was never a crusade book based around this is absolute loving horse poo poo.
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Jul 15, 2023 05:30
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The Octarius War is definitely one of the coolest M41 conflicts even though it's BS that the Orks lost. Should have been some Titan sized warbosses cruising around after that bloodbath.
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Jul 15, 2023 05:40
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Arc Hammer posted:The Octarius War is definitely one of the coolest M41 conflicts even though it's BS that the Orks lost. Should have been some Titan sized warbosses cruising around after that bloodbath. Yeah, that's weak rear end writing. The Tyranids should have backed off and incorporated orks into their genes after realizing they couldn't break the greenskins, and then the orks have a whole new kind of huge nobs/squigs/warbosses/etc they could justify spreading around the galaxy, rather than just having a new subfaction just randomly show up, and now the Imperium has even more problems
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Jul 15, 2023 05:55
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Unfortunately Orks and Tyranids often filled the same role of faceless horde enemy that gives a hero faction a win against overwhelming odds in the lore. So while pitting them against one another is an awesome idea it was always going to result in one side inevitably taking another loss.
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Jul 15, 2023 06:05
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Corax is truly testing my patience in this project, but I'm forty books deep now, I must endure.
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Jul 15, 2023 11:35
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Tyranids winning is completely fine, despite the scale and coolness of the fight for the orks it was always a side conflict for them narratively. You can tell this because the Octarius War is almost never even mentioned in any Ork codex that has been made over the past two decades, it always appears in, and is highlighted, in the Tyranid codex instead. The Octarius War is and always was part of the story of the Tyranids and not the Orks.
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Jul 15, 2023 14:33
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Black Griffon posted:Corax is truly testing my patience in this project, but I'm forty books deep now, I must endure. The only horus heresy nook i skipped was the final salamanders short story collection because it loving sucked, it was so bad, jesus christ every single part of it was so boring and lovely. The raven guard plotline is a close second for "worst heresy sideplot"
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Jul 15, 2023 19:06
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Improbable Lobster posted:The only horus heresy nook i skipped was the final salamanders short story collection because it loving sucked, it was so bad, jesus christ every single part of it was so boring and lovely. The Heresy book that broke me was the first one Kyme wrote. I'm not sure if he's written more since it completely killed my interest in Heresy novels for literal years and now hardcopies are hard to find. His prose is incredibly bad. I will read anything if I can glean any entertainment value out of it, but there simply isn't any in his writing. He should stick to editing and not write any more prose ever.
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Jul 15, 2023 20:13
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Vulkan Lives is a loving mess, but Deathfire? Oh don't worry, it's a loving mess.
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Jul 15, 2023 20:42
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I'm still mad that Meduson got Kyme'd
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Jul 15, 2023 21:05
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What's the consensus on The Beast Arises arc? I always thought the premise was pretty fascinating with Ork death stars loving up Segmentum Solar while the Imperium is still hung over from the HH. I read the first book that Abnett wrote (I Am Slaughter) and thought it was pretty entertaining even if it was far from his best work, pretty sure I read the second one too (Predator, Prey) which I was decidedly less entertained by. I'm a bit hesitant to soldier on with the series because I noticed that there's some authors in there that I've gone out of my way to avoid so far *cough*Thorpe*cough* so I've been assuming things just devolve into the standard Space Marine action porn snoozefest. But maybe I'm missing out?
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Jul 15, 2023 22:04
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Didn't the octarius war have Ghazkull show up, be awesome as poo poo for a while, then gently caress off stealing most of the ork forces? That's kinda fun
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Jul 15, 2023 22:28
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Nuclear Tourist posted:What's the consensus on The Beast Arises arc? But maybe I'm missing out? Nope. Intensely skippable, waste of a good premise.
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Jul 15, 2023 22:40
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Nuclear Tourist posted:What's the consensus on The Beast Arises arc? I always thought the premise was pretty fascinating with Ork death stars loving up Segmentum Solar while the Imperium is still hung over from the HH. I read the first book that Abnett wrote (I Am Slaughter) and thought it was pretty entertaining even if it was far from his best work, pretty sure I read the second one too (Predator, Prey) which I was decidedly less entertained by. I'm a bit hesitant to soldier on with the series because I noticed that there's some authors in there that I've gone out of my way to avoid so far *cough*Thorpe*cough* so I've been assuming things just devolve into the standard Space Marine action porn snoozefest. But maybe I'm missing out? It gets a lot of hate. It has some really cool set pieces and concepts and it's really neat getting to see the imperium in the early days. That was enough for me to get through it. It's not very good but it has its moments. I think the best way to describe it is if you can get through all the heresy books you can definitely get through beast arises. The worst heresy books are worse than beast arises but none of the BA books are better than the median heresy books.
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Jul 15, 2023 22:52
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Nuclear Tourist posted:What's the consensus on The Beast Arises arc? I always thought the premise was pretty fascinating with Ork death stars loving up Segmentum Solar while the Imperium is still hung over from the HH. I read the first book that Abnett wrote (I Am Slaughter) and thought it was pretty entertaining even if it was far from his best work, pretty sure I read the second one too (Predator, Prey) which I was decidedly less entertained by. I'm a bit hesitant to soldier on with the series because I noticed that there's some authors in there that I've gone out of my way to avoid so far *cough*Thorpe*cough* so I've been assuming things just devolve into the standard Space Marine action porn snoozefest. But maybe I'm missing out? I only read a single book of it and it was quite bad. A combination of everyine being dumb and predictable and Orks basically being the fandom's image of Light Yagami, recreating the Peasant's Crusade before the first real one. Orks are not even orks in it, they are just green versions of primarchs. If you ever read Battle for the Abyss, just imagine the Word Bearers being green. We can stomach a fair deal of bad books in a series, HH included, but there has to be a good high point in mind we're looking forward to. Nothing convinced me that was coming in War of the Beast, so I dropped it. But if you've read everything else, or already have the books, give it a try, I guess.
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Jul 15, 2023 23:21
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