The US will lose WW3

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > The US will lose WW3

Frosted Flake: Sep 13, 2011; Semper Shitpost Ubique

Bar Ran Dun posted:

they�re way cheaper just a bit above the Chinese yard cheaper.

and lol if you think the maintenance stuff is low paying.

Have enough sailors to actually maintain the fleet ⚖️ "lol" expensive maintenance through contractors

:thunk:

# ? Jul 14, 2023 01:33

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# ? May 23, 2024 18:57

Centrist Committee: Aug 6, 2019

Bar Ran Dun posted:

no my opinion is that if they want to match they build at Korean and Japanese yards and that�s the only way possible for them to match. there isn�t really a choice anymore and if they don�t pull the trigger on it they�ll lose blue water supremacy.

that we�re even posting about this means they won�t and they already have

# ? Jul 14, 2023 01:57

mawarannahr: May 21, 2019

Tuber's clogging the pipeline
DOD Officials Highlight Risks to Force Posed by Senate Nomination Hold

www.defense.gov posted:

Secretary of Defense Lloyd J. Austin III underscored the risks to national security posed by the ongoing blanket hold on Senate confirmations for hundreds of military nominees in a brief phone call today with Sen. Tommy Tuberville of Alabama.

During the conversation, which took place at the secretary's request, Austin explained the impact the lawmaker's holds are having on military readiness and uncertainty within the force, Department of Defense Press Secretary Air Force Brig. Gen. Pat Ryder said during a briefing at the Pentagon. �
"This conversation also follows a call initiated by Secretary Austin earlier this year, as well as ongoing engagement at the staff level," Ryder said. "The two did agree to speak again next week."�
Tuberville has placed a hold on Senate confirmation for hundreds of general and flag officers throughout the DOD over disagreements with the Pentagon on its uncovered reproductive health policy. �
As many as 265 general and flag officer nominations have been delayed in the Senate as a result of the hold. �
Among those general officers pending the Senate's confirmation, is Marine Corps Gen. Eric M. Smith, who earlier this week took over as acting Commandant of the Marine Corps.�
Smith replaces Marine Corps Gen. David H. Berger who relinquished his position after four years of serving as Commandant.

The last time the Marine Corps had an acting commandant was more than a century ago, when Col. William Biddle served as in acting capacity from Dec. 1, 1910, to Feb. 2, 1911.�
Austin underscored the negative impacts further delays in confirming the next commandant would have on Marine Corps and on national security during the Berger's relinquishment of command ceremony on Monday.�
"Smooth and timely transitions of confirmed leadership are central to the defense of the United States and to the full strength of the most powerful fighting force in history," Austin said. ��
�"We have a sacred duty to do right by those who volunteer to wear the cloth of our nation," he said. ��
Should the hold remain in place, as many as 650 critical leadership positions could be vacant by year's end, Deputy Pentagon Press Secretary Sabrina Singh said during a briefing earlier this week.�
In an interview with Fox News' Neil Cavuto following today's call between Austin and Tuberville, Singh said the impact to military readiness caused by the holds comes at a critical time.

As the U.S. faces the growing pacing challenge posed by China and responds to Russia's ongoing assault on Ukraine, "we need our best team on the field," she said. �
"These are our nominees who have incredibly important jobs all around the world, who are working with our partners and allies," Singh said. "And it sends a message to our adversaries."�
Singh said Pentagon officials are hopeful that their ongoing engagement with Tuberville continues and encourages the Senator to lift his hold. �
She added that DOD policy surrounding uncovered reproductive care has not changed, and that the Pentagon is not "making concessions or changing our policy" in light discussions over the Senate holds. �
"Our policy is very clear, we're trying to ensure equity across the service to all of our service members who live in states that they have the same rights as service members that live in other states," she said in an interview with NBC's Chuck Todd. �
"This is not a political fight," she added. "This is about our general and flag officers, our nominees ��from four-star generals down to one-star generals ��who deserve to be in the positions that they have been selected in."

# ? Jul 14, 2023 02:26

Jon Pod Van Damm: Apr 6, 2009; THE POSSESSION OF WEALTH IS IN AND OF ITSELF A SIGN OF POOR VIRTUE. AS SUCH:
1 NEVER TRUST ANY RICH PERSON.
2 NEVER HIRE ANY RICH PERSON.
BY RULE 1, IT IS APPROPRIATE TO PRESUME THAT ALL DEGREES AND CREDENTIALS HELD BY A WEALTHY PERSON ARE FRAUDULENT. THIS JUSTIFIES RULE 2--RULE 1 NEEDS NO JUSTIFIC

Who keeps yelling carnation revolution?

# ? Jul 14, 2023 02:30

Bar Ran Dun: Jan 22, 2006

Frosted Flake posted:

Have enough sailors to actually maintain the fleet ⚖️ "lol" expensive maintenance through contractors

part that problem I think is driven by gas turbines. it�s something I�ve thought a lot of about since the last time we seriously talked about it.

think about trains what happened when trains transitioned from steam to diesel electric? the maintenance dropped dramatically. if one has ever interacted with historical railroads one can compare, it is hundreds of hours you will see 10s to 100s of hours of maintenance per hour of operation.

on a diesel vessel most everything in the engine can be repaired onboard. they have spare cylinders, pistons rings, etc. but there are specific items like on vessel with a reduction gear, the reduction gear, that have to be done by vendors.

on a gas turbine vessel, the gas turbine is like that, like a reduction gear rather than a diesel engine. One isn�t making or repairing a turbine blade on a ship. So between the plant changes and aviators being favored because of carriers. The way maintenance was thought about changed to more like aviation.

im still angry about it personally because it�s driven by a hyper optimization for performance that doesn�t really matter because missiles exist. but it�s also consequence of plant choice.

# ? Jul 14, 2023 03:23

Bar Ran Dun: Jan 22, 2006

Centrist Committee posted:

that we�re even posting about this means they won�t and they already have

yeah they�d have to do it right now or in the next handful of years .

# ? Jul 14, 2023 03:24

Ardennes: May 12, 2002

The point being that build contracts are simply higher paying than maintenance contracts, and while Chinese shipyards do whatever the government tells them to do, American shipyards are much happier building new ships, even if they are non-sense, than trying to maintain the existing fleet. Japan and Korea has that choice as well.

# ? Jul 14, 2023 03:31

Frosted Flake: Sep 13, 2011; Semper Shitpost Ubique

Bar Ran Dun posted:

part that problem I think is driven by gas turbines. it�s something I�ve thought a lot of about since the last time we seriously talked about it.

think about trains what happened when trains transitioned from steam to diesel electric? the maintenance dropped dramatically. if one has ever interacted with historical railroads one can compare, it is hundreds of hours you will see 10s to 100s of hours of maintenance per hour of operation.

on a diesel vessel most everything in the engine can be repaired onboard. they have spare cylinders, pistons rings, etc. but there are specific items like on vessel with a reduction gear, the reduction gear, that have to be done by vendors.

on a gas turbine vessel, the gas turbine is like that, like a reduction gear rather than a diesel engine. One isn�t making or repairing a turbine blade on a ship. So between the plant changes and aviators being favored because of carriers. The way maintenance was thought about changed to more like aviation.

im still angry about it personally because it�s driven by a hyper optimization for performance that doesn�t really matter because missiles exist. but it�s also consequence of plant choice.

You don't need the black gang to be huge to still have boatswains. Hell, more than half of the enlisted RCN trades have signing bonuses right now.

The "cost" of berthing for sailors whose only job when not at their battle stations is maintaining the ship at sea seems minimal compared to the long term costs of rusting out and paying private sector, but what do I know? I'm no Jack Tar.

# ? Jul 14, 2023 04:04

Bar Ran Dun: Jan 22, 2006

Frosted Flake posted:

The "cost" of berthing for sailors whose only job when not at their battle stations is maintaining the ship at sea seems minimal compared to the long term costs of rusting out and paying private sector, but what do I know? I'm no Jack Tar.

I�ve been looking into a bit more and I think some of what is going on is the new deck coatings are not things you can just needle gun and repaint. it looks like powder coats are being used on deck along with new non skid coatings.

it�s the same process of hyper optimization with the coatings.

# ? Jul 14, 2023 05:19

KomradeX: Oct 29, 2011

So if the US started doing maintenance/ building new ships in Japan and Korea (lol that this is a serious suggestion) how quickly qnd throughly do you think those facilities get infiltrated by Chinese intelligence?

# ? Jul 14, 2023 06:33

crepeface: Nov 5, 2004; r*p*f*c*

mawarannahr posted:

America can't pay its military. where's the money go!!
Air Force to pause bonuses and PCS moves | Federal News Network

crepeface posted:

https://www.businessinsider.com/air-force-scientist-allegations-tricked-contractor-into-hiring-sex-worker-2022-7

quote:

A senior Air Force scientist allegedly tricked a defense contractor into hiring a sex worker, according to court records.

The woman was also named co-chair of a scientific panel despite lacking necessary qualifications.

The scientist is also said to have used a government travel card to pay for sexual services, according to an unsealed warrant application.

Prior to his death, Gord was "an internationally recognized leader in the development and application of optical measurement techniques for advanced propulsion and fuel systems," according to the AFRL.

literally using the defense budget on hookers

# ? Jul 14, 2023 06:39

Frosted Flake: Sep 13, 2011; Semper Shitpost Ubique

Bar Ran Dun posted:

I�ve been looking into a bit more and I think some of what is going on is the new deck coatings are not things you can just needle gun and repaint. it looks like powder coats are being used on deck along with new non skid coatings.

it�s the same process of hyper optimization with the coatings.

I think you'll find Britain ruled the waves with a less durable paint formula:

# ? Jul 14, 2023 07:05

stephenthinkpad: Jan 2, 2020

crepeface posted:

Gord was never charged in connection with the warrant prior to his death from unnamed causes in September 2021

So what happened? He killed himself I take it?

This poo poo only blew up because Gord threatened the Bangladesh immigrant contractor he would terminate his contract if he fired the hooker researcher, but the contractor reported him anyway.

# ? Jul 14, 2023 07:05

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

https://twitter.com/zebulgar/status/1679599970507280390?t=C1Taz4ho2GoqIP4ZBj5MBw&s=19

MATH!!!

# ? Jul 14, 2023 12:58

Mantis42: Jul 26, 2010

andrew yang warned us...

# ? Jul 14, 2023 13:03

mawarannahr: May 21, 2019

gradenko_2000 posted:

https://twitter.com/zebulgar/status/1679599970507280390?t=C1Taz4ho2GoqIP4ZBj5MBw&s=19

MATH!!!

in it voted 5

# ? Jul 14, 2023 14:37

croup coughfield: Apr 8, 2020; Can't post for 75 days!

its hosed up that turkey is allowed to have a broad on their team. shes gonna distract the other nerds and theyre not gonna be able to add and subtract

# ? Jul 14, 2023 14:41

stephenthinkpad: Jan 2, 2020

2023 United States Math Team Members:

quote:

2023 IMO USA Team
Jeff Lin, 18, Gold Medal
Derek Liu, 17, Gold Medal
Maximus Lu, 17, Silver Medal
Eric Shen, 18, Gold Medal
Alexander Wang, 15, Gold Medal
Alex Zhao, 16, Gold Medal

Canada Math Team members:

quote:

Dhruv Basu,
Haozhe Yang
Kaixin Wang
Marvin Mao
Ming Yang
Warren Bei

# ? Jul 14, 2023 14:53

Nix Panicus: Feb 25, 2007

Maximus is letting down the nation

# ? Jul 14, 2023 15:05

spiritual bypass: Feb 19, 2008; Grimey Drawer

jeff, derek, max, eric, alex, and alex are doing great

# ? Jul 14, 2023 16:37

Slavvy: Dec 11, 2012

Marvin Mao is a powerful name

# ? Jul 14, 2023 20:25

Tankbuster: Oct 1, 2021

lol that one bengali dude in the top 3 teams.

# ? Jul 14, 2023 20:51

Regarde Aduck: Oct 19, 2012; c l o u d k i t t e n; Grimey Drawer

gradenko_2000 posted:

https://twitter.com/zebulgar/status/1679599970507280390?t=C1Taz4ho2GoqIP4ZBj5MBw&s=19

MATH!!!

NO! NOOOOOOO!

no more math

that's it i hate china and i'm team NATO. When you can't count then it doesn't matter how many ships you do or don't have :smug:

# ? Jul 14, 2023 23:20

FuzzySlippers: Feb 6, 2009

Considering the navy can't seem to fully staff their ships they might as well have the Koreans/Japanese sail them too.

# ? Jul 15, 2023 00:02

stephenthinkpad: Jan 2, 2020

Romania is in NATO right?

# ? Jul 15, 2023 00:11

The Oldest Man: Jul 28, 2003

FuzzySlippers posted:

Considering the navy can't seem to fully staff their ships they might as well have the Koreans/Japanese sail them too.

We should just outsource it straight to China, those guys seem pretty on the ball

# ? Jul 15, 2023 08:30

LIVE AMMO COSPLAY: Feb 3, 2006

The Oldest Man posted:

We should just outsource it straight to China, those guys seem pretty on the ball

They do say the only people who make any real money in a gold rush are the ones selling shovels. Maybe China could arm both the USA and Russia and let them have their proxy war

# ? Jul 15, 2023 08:58

Danann: Aug 4, 2013

https://techcrunch.com/2023/07/13/meet-the-19-year-old-mit-drop-out-replacing-gunpowder-for-the-defense-industry/

quote:

techcrunch.com
Meet the 19-year-old MIT dropout 'replacing gunpowder' for the defense industry
Aria Alamalhodaei
6�7 minutes

Silicon Valley loves its wunderkinds, but the same cannot be said of Washington, D.C., where the central mandate is not to take risks, but to de-risk.

Or that�s how it�s been until recently. The two American power centers have been solidifying a d�tente, spurred by the war in Ukraine and the great global competition with China. Investor interest in defense startups has grown, with nearly $8 billion of VC dollars flowing to aerospace and defense startups last year � up from just $1.4 billion in 2018, according to the analytics firm PitchBook.

Concurrently, Pentagon leaders have acknowledged that getting startup tech to the warfighter is a national security imperative, which has led to greater willingness to work with companies outside the small suite of aerospace primes.

Few stories embody this incredible shift more than one that emerged in the middle of June: that of Mach Industries, and its 19-year-old founder Ethan Thornton. The company has captured interest from VCs and the DoD, landing Sequoia Capital�s first investment into defense tech and courting interest from the Pentagon. Mach�s seed round, which included participation from Marque VC and Champion Hill Ventures, came to $5.7 million.

Mach is developing hydrogen-powered platforms for the military, including unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs), munitions and hydrogen generation systems. The company is betting that techniques like hydrogen combustion, powered by an energy source that can be manufactured in the field, will give the military an advantage in case conflicts with near-peer adversaries arise.

Speaking generally in a recent interview with TechCrunch, Thornton described a solution that�s less expensive, and perhaps less exquisite, than the ultra-costly weapons programs of today. It�s a mindset shift embodied in hardware: Instead of thinking in terms of missiles, think in terms of something more like bullets. On LinkedIn Thornton has said that the company is �working to replace gunpowder,� and in our interview he described a less expensive approach to munitions.

�Taking a missile [and turning it into] a bullet, every time you do that, you really, really decrease your costs,� he said. �That�s fundamentally one of the changes Mach wants to see happen: taking more away from the rocket equation � because you have to bring your own propellant, your own sensors, and things get very expensive � and back to actually an older model using more projectile-based systems.�

Thornton�s interest in hardware stretches back to his childhood; the way he tells it, it�s part-nature, part-nurture, with a grandfather who built kit aircraft in his spare time, a high school job as an auto mechanic and a small business selling handmade kitchen knives, cutting boards and other products.

At some point along the way, he developed what he called an �[obsession] with electrolysis.� Electrolysis is a process by which water is split into its constituent elements � one of which, of course, is hydrogen. The first result of that obsession was a small arms device he made while still in high school. The entire thing cost around $200 � funded by his parents, after he pitched them with a 20-page paper � and consisted of a couple of deer feeder batteries and an electrolyzer, all powering what was essentially a bazooka.

Before his first academic year at MIT even commenced, he started working with MIT Lincoln Laboratory, a national R&D center managed by the school for the DOD. The military has long had an interest in hydrogen, especially as a robust energy supply chain for contested war environments, and the lab had its own group focused on energy systems.

While Thornton realized that the Lincoln Lab wasn�t the perfect fit for what he wanted to build, he was able to build his government connections. And then he decided to drop out.

�This was pre-team, pre-revenue, anything,� he said. �I just couldn�t sit through classes anymore.�

Thornton also walked away from Lincoln Lab with two significant hires: Erik Limpaecher, who was a senior technical staff at the lab�s energy systems group, and who had been with the center for nearly 12 years; and Mark Donahue, a former program manager for control and autonomous systems, who departed the lab after 15 years. Limpaecher is now Mach�s chief innovation officer, while Donahue was installed as VP of engineering.

Thornton did end up finishing his first year at MIT this past spring, but not before putting together a team of undergrads and testing a large, mounted gun under the railroad tracks near Charles River, and joining the newest class of Peter Thiel�s Thiel Fellowship in February.

�I don�t like doing anything halfway, and I felt like I was doing college halfway, and [Mach] halfway. This was far and away the clear, no-brainer decision to make, and I haven�t regretted it.�

The Mach team, which is now about 15 people full-time, is headquartered in Austin but also maintains offices in Boston. There, the company conducts all the engineering work to build the systems; but Texas, with plentiful open land, is where the company actually puts the hydrogen to work in kinetic or combustible applications. It�s a split that has an almost eerie resonance with historical weapons development programs, with the brightest minds pulled from universities in the northeast and the product testing in the middle of nowhere.

For now, the company will use the seed funding to expand its engineering capabilities: manufacturing, R&D, and also to hire talent. Thornton hopes to be manufacturing thousands of products a year within the next five years, with certain systems in the hands of the end user within 12 months � though some, he said, will take more like 12 years.

It is time to derisk and disrupt Chinese gunpowder :patriot:

# ? Jul 15, 2023 23:39

poisonpill: Nov 8, 2009; The only way to get huge fast is to insult a passing witch and hope she curses you with Beast-strength.

what is it with old morons being obsessed with dropouts

�oh he�s so smart that he didnt finish school? must be a genius!�

# ? Jul 15, 2023 23:54

Animal-Mother: Feb 14, 2012; RABBIT RABBIT
RABBIT RABBIT

poisonpill posted:

what is it with old morons being obsessed with dropouts

�oh he�s so smart that he didnt finish school? must be a genius!�

1. escaped from the woke indoctrination of communist professors

2. got to work instead of wasting time reading underwater basket weaving textbooks, stimulating the economy, disrupting the whatever

# ? Jul 16, 2023 00:25

Frosted Flake: Sep 13, 2011; Semper Shitpost Ubique

lol was that article saying he's trying to use hydrogen as a propellant?

I don't actually see anything specific in that article. Replace "gunpowder" how? For what? With what? It's all vague tech-talk when rather than his cool dropout story and disrupting the propellant industry, it would be useful to know what exactly he's pitching.

Wait wait wait stop.

Speaking generally in a recent interview with TechCrunch, Thornton described a solution that�s less expensive, and perhaps less exquisite, than the ultra-costly weapons programs of today. It�s a mindset shift embodied in hardware: Instead of thinking in terms of missiles, think in terms of something more like bullets. On LinkedIn Thornton has said that the company is �working to replace gunpowder,� and in our interview he described a less expensive approach to munitions.

�Taking a missile [and turning it into] a bullet, every time you do that, you really, really decrease your costs,� he said. �That�s fundamentally one of the changes Mach wants to see happen: taking more away from the rocket equation � because you have to bring your own propellant, your own sensors, and things get very expensive � and back to actually an older model using more projectile-based systems.�

Is this article saying he's proposing that miniature hydrogen fuelled rockets are his proposed replacements for smokeless powder propelling lead bullets?

:thunk:

Frosted Flake has issued a correction as of 00:54 on Jul 16, 2023

# ? Jul 16, 2023 00:48

poisonpill: Nov 8, 2009; The only way to get huge fast is to insult a passing witch and hope she curses you with Beast-strength.

yeah he�s such a genius he did some science project in high school with it. and didn�t need to learn anything in college (like why it�s an insanely dumb idea, for instance)

# ? Jul 16, 2023 00:52

Hubbert: Mar 25, 2007; At a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

croup coughfield posted:

its hosed up that turkey is allowed to have a broad on their team. shes gonna distract the other nerds and theyre not gonna be able to add and subtract

actually she's going to make all the difference

# ? Jul 16, 2023 00:53

Frosted Flake: Sep 13, 2011; Semper Shitpost Ubique

I'm still wrapping my head around this brilliant idea. Sig Saur figured out how to charge the government $4 a bullet, but this... lol.

Also, it was already invented and sucked.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HoffTmg9bxU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98c2t_uK5Uo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txKHJeDgDAQ

# ? Jul 16, 2023 00:56

Slavvy: Dec 11, 2012

Frosted Flake posted:

lol was that article saying he's trying to use hydrogen as a propellant?

I don't actually see anything specific in that article. Replace "gunpowder" how? For what? With what? It's all vague tech-talk when rather than his cool dropout story and disrupting the propellant industry, it would be useful to know what exactly he's pitching.

Wait wait wait stop.

Speaking generally in a recent interview with TechCrunch, Thornton described a solution that’s less expensive, and perhaps less exquisite, than the ultra-costly weapons programs of today. It’s a mindset shift embodied in hardware: Instead of thinking in terms of missiles, think in terms of something more like bullets. On LinkedIn Thornton has said that the company is “working to replace gunpowder,” and in our interview he described a less expensive approach to munitions.

“Taking a missile [and turning it into] a bullet, every time you do that, you really, really decrease your costs,” he said. “That’s fundamentally one of the changes Mach wants to see happen: taking more away from the rocket equation — because you have to bring your own propellant, your own sensors, and things get very expensive — and back to actually an older model using more projectile-based systems.”

Is this article saying he's proposing that miniature hydrogen fuelled rockets are his proposed replacements for smokeless powder propelling lead bullets?

You're missing the woods for the trees. He was insightful enough to see the traditional MIC was still running on the old, cumbersome grift model, namely over promising and under delivering on massively overpriced wunderwaffen. He saw the gap and exploited it - he's disrupting the grift market by bringing tech startup style grift to the MIC. There will never be a product or even a concrete promise of one, it's a purely hype based investment grift.

# ? Jul 16, 2023 00:57

LIVE AMMO COSPLAY: Feb 3, 2006

https://www.baen.com/Chapters/1439133476/1439133476___5.htm

I could pick a funny paragraph from the story but it's short enough and entirely relevant

# ? Jul 16, 2023 01:03

Polikarpov: Jun 1, 2013; Keep it between the buoys

Frosted Flake posted:

You don't need the black gang to be huge to still have boatswains. Hell, more than half of the enlisted RCN trades have signing bonuses right now.

The "cost" of berthing for sailors whose only job when not at their battle stations is maintaining the ship at sea seems minimal compared to the long term costs of rusting out and paying private sector, but what do I know? I'm no Jack Tar.

If you want a good laugh go look at the front page of the Military Sealift Command website. Massive bonuses for almost every rate. They only run all the dry cargo, ammo and fleet oilers that supply the USN.

They're offering a 22k signing bonus + an annual salary over 130k for steward-cooks. Anyone want a job? You'll be stuck on a ship for 10 months out the year though. Wonder why they cant get people.

# ? Jul 16, 2023 01:08

stephenthinkpad: Jan 2, 2020

Slavvy posted:

You're missing the woods for the trees. He was insightful enough to see the traditional MIC was still running on the old, cumbersome grift model, namely over promising and under delivering on massively overpriced wunderwaffen. He saw the gap and exploited it - he's disrupting the grift market by bringing tech startup style grift to the MIC. There will never be a product or even a concrete promise of one, it's a purely hype based investment grift.

It's the We company of MIC, get Softbank chip in 5 billions.

# ? Jul 16, 2023 01:09

Frosted Flake: Sep 13, 2011; Semper Shitpost Ubique

Slavvy posted:

You're missing the woods for the trees. He was insightful enough to see the traditional MIC was still running on the old, cumbersome grift model, namely over promising and under delivering on massively overpriced wunderwaffen. He saw the gap and exploited it - he's disrupting the grift market by bringing tech startup style grift to the MIC. There will never be a product or even a concrete promise of one, it's a purely hype based investment grift.

I was thinking that, but you nailed it. Goddamn.

# ? Jul 16, 2023 01:12

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# ? May 23, 2024 18:57

Palladium: May 8, 2012; Very Good
✔️✔️✔️✔️

lessons learned from theranos = not enough theranos

# ? Jul 16, 2023 01:14

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > The US will lose WW3

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