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Manfred von Karma, ladies and gentlemen. "Perfect" - so is there a flaw in his armor, or not? Edit: Update near the bottom of the previous page.
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Jul 15, 2023 06:17
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| # ? May 23, 2024 09:17 |
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I mean, apart from the craziness of calling this a cross examination Polly is evidence that needs examining. Von Karma tried to prevent it by deliberately framing it in an absurd way but he wouldn't have trained the DL6 response out of Polly if he didn't think it would have been a risk for the trial. Having said that,  Nick is cross examining a parrot. And Von Karma had to retrain said parrot in case it happened.
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Jul 15, 2023 07:19
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The best part is still that von Karma literally retrained the parrot, just in case. Just so he'd have an extra trap if we randomly decided to call the parrot.
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Jul 15, 2023 07:25
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This whole Parrot mess drove me nuts when I first watched it in an LP. Still makes me laugh years later. The judge's reaction to it all is priceless.
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Jul 15, 2023 08:38
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I mean, von Karma was the one who suggested cross-examining the parrot; he baited us into doing this. Which I totally respect, it's a good bit.
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Jul 15, 2023 09:25
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Cyouni posted:The best part is still that von Karma literally retrained the parrot, just in case. Just so he'd have an extra trap if we randomly decided to call the parrot. Could've fed it poison, but no, he took time out of his busy, evil schedule to do this.
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Jul 15, 2023 17:08
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Grasping at macaws is such a good throwaway line.
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Jul 15, 2023 19:17
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The amount of work von Karma puts into his cheating is just staggering. He must have been up all night retraining that parrot.
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Jul 16, 2023 01:25
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He didn't cheat on retraining the parrot at least. ...or did he?
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Jul 16, 2023 05:12
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ApplesandOranges posted:He didn't cheat on retraining the parrot at least.  Have we forgotten something? *squawk* "Don't forget DL-6!" *squawk* *opens console commands*
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Jul 16, 2023 06:04
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Gen. Ripper posted:
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Jul 16, 2023 07:30
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Ooh, the LP finally hit one of my favorite parts. Having Polly come to the stand completely baffled me back when I first played. And learning that von Karma was so meticulously prepared that he retrained the drat bird floored me.
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Jul 17, 2023 19:48
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Von Karma pulling an all nighter speedrunning all the Wizardry 4 endings with Polly to create a new association for "Have you forgotten something?"
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Jul 18, 2023 04:06
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Part 111: Episode 4, Final Day, Trial: Confession  As most of you figured out, the correct answer is the case file, and I'll show you why.  Check out that date!  The DL-6 Case File? Karma is just cold-blooded. He knows full well what's going on here.  Mr. Wright. I didn't spot this one until just before we got asked to present something. Once the game pointed out that the number was important, though, it was an easy leap to look at it as a date. Anyway, the page I showed earlier is the Case Summary.  It's on the "Case Summary" page! The Case... Summary?Sound: Realization  The date of the incident? December 28...? Why, that's today's date. Fifteen years ago! And the number on that safe is 1228! Ah!Sound: Light Bulb   Sound: Desk Slam That's how important that date was to him! I see... It certainly is an interesting coincidence.  Bah! This is not tangible proof! For some reason, the "perfect" Karma not only setting his ATM code to such a simple number but blurting it out in the courtroom tickled me when I was recording. But after writing up his last few blatant lies, I just assume he's lying again there.  Sound: Fwa-Shing 2  This has nothing to do with a date! Nothing!Music: Questioning - Moderato  Hmm... Indeed. We would need some other corroborating evidence... (Where am I going to find that!?) Nick! We're getting closer! Ohhh we need to go back and do the name thing too!  (Right... but what?) Hmph! Very well, witness. You may continue. And with that, we're brought back to the cross to start over. But with a plot flag apparently cleared. quote:Picking the wrong page is basically the same either way:  We need to press on the first line again and get back to this prompt. We're just left with getting Polly's name on the record now. (Maybe I should get her to say her name?) "Pol-ly! Pol-ly!" *squawk* Mr. Wright... I think we've established that this parrot is named "Polly." Now, this one I figured out when we first got the case file.  Yes it does! !!!Sound: Light Bulb Hah! Fascinating! Then show us this proof!quote:Backing off here just gives the same text and result as backing off when talking about the safe combination earlier.  Sound: Whack Listen. We're here to prove that he is Yanni Yogi! Just in case we needed more hints. Your Honor.  We're in the case file again, because of one line at the very end...  Yogi named his parrot after his dead fiancée! The DL-6 Case File? Which page is this "proof" on then?quote:If we present anything other than the case file, the judge shakes his head at us. Sound: Fwa-Shing 2 Show us, or stop wasting our time! Hmm... Very well. Mr. Wright, please show us the page. This time I knew to check the evidence ahead of time. But notice that this prompt still allows you to access the court record to check the evidence, even if you hadn't done so beforehand. It's on the "Suspect Data" page! ...?  Right after he was arrested, his fiancée committed suicide, see? Hmm... Indeed, it does say that, yes. What was his fiancée's name? Sound: Realization Exactly, Your Honor!quote:Like before, getting the page wrong results in the same scene either way, with just the name of the page in the first line below different between the two. Music: Silence  Sound: Desk Slam  I see! I guess that is possible. Bah! A mere coincidence, that's all! My granddaughter has a dog she calls "Phoenix."Sound: Fwa-Shing 2  Sound: Super Shock  Sound: Objection If we hadn't already connected the safe combination to Yogi, we'd get the same discussion here about needing more evidence. Instead, we continue with a new scene.  Sound: Gavel That's enough! This is a mere coincidence, that's all! True, that is a possibility. Sound: Realization Wh... what are you saying!?Sound: Gavel Summon the caretaker of the boat shop. Immediately!Hopefully he hasn't gotten "lost" again...  First time I think we've seen the same person take the stand three times. I'm not sure anyone else even got up there twice before. Music: Objection! Witness... Tell us your name. Wait! This witness, he doesn't remember...Music: Silence  Sound: Realization Note the speaker. ...!Sound: Light Bulb  Sound: Shock 2 Holy poo poo he really was faking it the whole time! This game's characters are so ridiculous that it never occurred to me that one of them would be just playing at being crazy!  Music: Objection! Nick! He looks totally different!Sound: Whack  He's been acting feeble to hide his true identity. Sound: Realization Now I wonder if he even really has kids or if his whole bit about thinking we were his children, Meg and Keith, was just part of the act. Especially if his fiancée committed suicide (probably before having kids), and he was a social pariah afterwards, it doesn't seem like he would have any family left? Maybe he had a couple kids from a prior marriage? W-well...! Let me ask you again. Please state your name for the court!  15 years ago, I served as a bailiff in this very court. Sound: Gallery  Sound: Gavel x 3 Order! Order! Yogi's profile has been updated with his full information. I missed it earlier, but this update actually happened way back when we talked with Edgeworth in the last investigation sequence, and he told us about Yogi. Yanni Yogi! And tried to frame Miles Edgeworth for his death? ...Music: Silence  Case closed, let's go home everyone. Definitely don't let anyone talk to Edgeworth for the rest of the day. ...Music: Recollection ~ The DL-6 Incident  Robert Hammond... he said I was mentally unsound.  So... I pretended to have brain damage... Sound: Shock 2 We won the trial... But I lost everything. I guess he was being cautious and all, but if it were me I would have also faked a miraculous recovery a few months/years later instead of keeping up the charade for 15 years. Not sure if this legal system allows for him to be tried again or not? ... Then, this year, 15 years later... Aha! We know Karma sent the letter, so he also sent the pistol! What are the odds it's the same weapon used to kill Gregory Edgeworth 15 years ago? The plan was written out in careful detail. I didn't care who had sent it. I thought this was my chance, after 15 years, this was it! I have no regrets.Music: Silence W-wait a moment!Sound: Whack  Sound: Realization What do you mean? Why don't you ask Mr. Edgeworth yourself?Nope definitely don't want to do that.  Music: Trial  Under arrest, Your Honor. Then... the defendant, Miles Edgeworth is... Hmm. Very well. Here comes trouble.  There are a few mysteries left unsolved. So I would like to pass judgment on the murder of Mr. Robert Hammond. Any objections? ... ... ...Music: Silence (I don't believe it!) Sound: Realization Very well.  Sound: Guilty x 2  Sound: Gallery Cheer Normally we'd be celebrating right along with the crowd. But there's no way this case is really over. We had a fake-out guilty verdict the previous day, are we about to have a fake-out not guilty verdict now? Sound: Gavel That is all. This court is adjourned![url=]  Sound: Objection I'll give you three guess as to who that was, and the first two don't count. (You can also cheat and check the link.)  Sound: Shock 2 x 4 Not any of these four. Though Karma has his evil face showing again.  (It wasn't von Karma...!) (Wait, but that means...) No... Sound: Guilty Sound: Drama Pound Music: Pressing Pursuit - Cornered  Your Honor. Sound: Objection Okay blending on the straight-on sprite with the courtroom pointing sprite was great. Wh-what do you mean?Sound: Whack  I'm not innocent at all! Dammit, Edgeworth, shut up!  But, revenge for what? Nick!Sound: Whack  He's going to tell them he was the murderer in the DL-6 Incident! He's going to tell them he killed his own dad!No poo poo!  Objecting seems rather pointless; Karma will be all over us. Let's just let Edgeworth have his say.   (This isn't my place to interfere!) Nick, are you sure!?Sound: Whack  quote:Let's see what would have happened if we had objected... Music: Silence For fifteen years... I have had a recurring dream. But now I know, it wasn't a dream.Music: Suspense Yanni Yogi wasn't the killer.   Everything was as clear as day. The murderer... Music: Silence It was me! Your Honor! I confess my guilt!  Sound: Drama Pound  Can we fire a client? Don't worry, Edgeworth, we'll prove your delusions aren't real.
DKII fucked around with this message at 07:39 on Jul 18, 2023 |
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Jul 18, 2023 04:33
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The trend of our clients being our worst enemies continues, with ours now literally confessing to murder right on the stand. I'm trying to imagine being a real lawyer playing this, somehow surviving the game so far without having a stroke, and then getting to this moment.
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Jul 18, 2023 04:55
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We're on the home stretch! Now we just have to prove Miles Edgeworth innocent! ...if he is 
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Jul 18, 2023 04:55
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Repeatedly show your attorney badge until everyone there respects your authority, even if you have to play for several hours.
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Jul 18, 2023 05:03
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the holy poopacy posted:Von Karma pulling an all nighter speedrunning all the Wizardry 4 endings with Polly to create a new association for "Have you forgotten something?" "Polly! Polly! Have we forgotten something?" "Squawk! According to all known laws of aviation, there is no way that a bee should be able to fly. Its wings are too small to get its fat little body off the ground. The bee, of course, flies anyw—"
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Jul 18, 2023 06:01
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Edgeworth, who not only has been dressing like he's from a Victorian-era novel, but apparently has a past like a main character from a Victorian-era novel, is now completing his arc by trying to atone for a perceived sin.Quackles posted:"Polly! Polly! Have we forgotten something?" "Squawk! The missile knows where it is at all times. It knows this because it knows where it isn't, by subtracting where it is, from where it isn't, or where it isn't, from where it is, whichever is greater-" "Why is the witness giving testimony about a police dog?"
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Jul 18, 2023 06:33
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DKII posted:
If I'm not mistaken, I think this line is given by Manfred, but it cuts to Phoenix's sweaty face as he says it. Also, Manfred must really hate him some Miles Edgeworth if he's 100% unfazed by outright losing a trial as long as it means throwing him under the bus for something.
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Jul 18, 2023 06:36
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Blueberry Pancakes posted:If I'm not mistaken, I think this line is given by Manfred, but it cuts to Phoenix's sweaty face as he says it.
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Jul 18, 2023 07:17
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Blueberry Pancakes posted:If I'm not mistaken, I think this line is given by Manfred, but it cuts to Phoenix's sweaty face as he says it. Huh, so it is. I threw the full image into the update.
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Jul 18, 2023 07:40
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DKII, you kept asking why Yogi's life got ruined. There's your answer, Hammond refused to believe his innocence and instead threw him under the bus for the sake of a technical win by making him fake massive permanent brain damage. And who would hire/trust him afterwards. I think Yogi couldn't fake a miraculous recovery a few years later because: 1) there are ways around double jeopardy. He could get nailed for lying in the first trial for example. 2) in Japan, prosecutors can appeal a not guilty verdict to higher courts and by its very nature Yogi's insanity plea conceded he was the one who shot Gregory. An appeal would last about 5 seconds: Appeal judge: will you look at this admission of facts from the perfectly sound of mind defendant. Guilty. E: actually I'm not completely sure about point 2 there, can someone confirm it? Omobono fucked around with this message at 10:26 on Jul 18, 2023 |
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Jul 18, 2023 10:10
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Blueberry Pancakes posted:If I'm not mistaken, I think this line is given by Manfred, but it cuts to Phoenix's sweaty face as he says it. It still cracks me up when you think Phoenix is saying it, like he's suddenly closely familiar with Von Karma's extended family.
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Jul 18, 2023 10:21
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A seven year old? Eww, that's grody, Phoenix
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Jul 18, 2023 11:09
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Tree Reformat posted:I'm trying to imagine being a real lawyer playing this, somehow surviving the game so far without having a stroke, and then getting to this moment. There are youtube channels that have done this (because it's too funny not to). Save Data is probably the most complete one, they've basically done all the Phoenix Wright games up to the point.
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Jul 18, 2023 14:54
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AncientSpark posted:There are youtube channels that have done this (because it's too funny not to). Save Data is probably the most complete one, they've basically done all the Phoenix Wright games up to the point. More after I get the chance to read the update.
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Jul 18, 2023 19:46
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Omobono posted:DKII, you kept asking why Yogi's life got ruined. There's your answer, Hammond refused to believe his innocence and instead threw him under the bus for the sake of a technical win by making him fake massive permanent brain damage. Yogi's life was ruined because no one showed him an attorney's badge back then
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Jul 19, 2023 06:49
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...! posted:Yogi's life was ruined because no one showed him an attorney's badge back then True, but I'd say this is more of a symptom of Hammond's incompetence than a direct cause.
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Jul 19, 2023 08:03
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Also Japan has a huge shame-based culture and the immense social pressure of even being accused/suspected is horrible. You think internet-based cancel culture is bad? How about being unemployable because you're such a bad public relations risk that even the yakuza think twice about taking you in? How about not wanting to go outside during the day because nobody will make eye contact with you but plenty of people will talk poo poo about you while you can still hear them? How about having your residence vandalized with the charges the state (or merely your accuser) levied against you? You can see bits and pieces of this in the flashback during the live action remake--in that version, it's pretty much all but stated out loud that human!Polly committed suicide because she became a social pariah. dotchan fucked around with this message at 00:00 on Jul 20, 2023 |
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Jul 19, 2023 08:25
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DKII posted:
I bookmarked this page just so I could bring this back up. Dagnabit, Edgeworth. Keeping those hands clean.
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Jul 19, 2023 14:16
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dotchan posted:Also Japan has a huge shame-based culture and the immense social pressure of even being accused/suspected is horrible. You think internet-based cancel culture is bad? How about being unemployable because you're such a bad public relations risk that even the yakuza think twice about taking you in? How about not wanting to go outside during the day because nobody will make eye contact with you but plenty of people will talk poo poo about you while you can still hear them? How about having your residence vandalized with the charges the state (or merely your accuser) levied against you? It's also specified that Polly committed suicide in this version as well, just not the cause.
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Jul 19, 2023 16:03
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dotchan posted:Also Japan has a huge shame-based culture and the immense social pressure of even being accused/suspected is horrible. You think internet-based cancel culture is bad? How about being unemployable because you're such a bad public relations risk that even the yakuza think twice about taking you in? How about not wanting to go outside during the day because nobody will make eye contact with you but plenty of people will talk poo poo about you while you can still hear them? How about having your residence vandalized with the charges the state (or merely your accuser) levied against you? That’s not just Japan, that’s a lot of Asia. I’ve lived there. Having read the update and recent comments, I find myself with little to say that hasn’t been said already. I will just add that I too hope we can resolve this trial soon. Edgeworth has a lot of problems in his life. He really needs a friend.
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Jul 19, 2023 22:47
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Speaking of the movie, there it's shown that Yogi was lying about his fingerprints; he intentionally melted them off as part of the scheme. The movie is really good, honestly. The third investigation scene is just Phoenix bumbling around acting desperately because he has ZERO leads to go on.
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Jul 20, 2023 01:47
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Faillen Angel posted:Speaking of the movie, there it's shown that Yogi was lying about his fingerprints; he intentionally melted them off as part of the scheme.
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Jul 20, 2023 04:55
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Part 112: Episode 4, Final Day, Trial: Crossing Our Client Music: Suspense  Sound: Gallery We last left off with Edgeworth confessing to the DL-6 Incident, which of course got the crowd buzzing again. Sound: Gavel x 3 Order! Order! This is certainly unexpected! A crime for which the statute of limitations runs out today! I'm not really sure how I should deal with this... Bah! It's obvious. Sound: Fwa-Shing 2 We try this man for his crime of fifteen years ago!Now we get to the real reason for the precise timing of Mr. Hammond's murder. Karma gets to try Edgeworth now for the DL-6 Incident, with a single-day trial and no time to investigate. Good thing we already have everything we need... I hope.  Sound: Gallery The crowd: "Wow we get two trials for the price of one ticket today! What a deal!" Sound: Gavel  During this time, I will consider the appropriate course of action to take. Court is adjourned!Sound: Gavel Note the suspenseful music hasn't actually stopped yet.   I've just wasted all of your effort. ...Even Gumshoe is here with his hangdog face.  I mean you... kill your dad? But... it's the truth. I deserve to be punished. Murder is murder, no matter the circumstances.Did Karma spend the last fifteen years brainwashing Edgeworth into this punish-the-guilty attitude just to set him up for this self-flagellation today?  Sound: Damage 2  ...Looks like everyone has given up. Music: Silence  Sound: Light Bulb Everyone, except one person, that is. Huh? Oh... I'm getting my case ready. Your case... for what? Music: Telling the Truth  ...!Sound: Light Bulb  Sound: Damage 2   He confessed that he did it! In court! I'm sorry, Edgeworth. Every time we think we learn a little bit about this case, it turns out to be another false trail laid by Karma. It's time to really solve this case. Wh-what!?Sound: Realization It's just a dream. It's not real. The truth is right here in this Court Record. I'll prove you're innocent. Trust me. W-Wright... Sound: Gavel  Judge! Let us begin by hearing his testimony. Thanks, dick. The statute of limitations on the DL-6 Incident runs out today. I bet you would. Still a dick. I see. Does the defense have any objections? No, Your Honor. Even when he loses, he wins. Up until right now. Very well.Sound: Gavel Music: Silence Will Miles Edgeworth take the stand? Will the witness state his name and profession. Mr. Edgeworth. Is this correct? ...Sound: Realization It is correct. Then testify about this matter to the court. (One detail didn't quite fit.)Sound: Realization Really? I missed it. I guess I'll see what Edgeworth actually says in his testimony.   Please... Please... Sound: Testimony 2 Music: Questioning - Moderato  As we went to leave, an earthquake struck, trapping us in the elevator.  Just then, something heavy fell at my feet.  Sound: Weak Gunshot It was a terrible scream. I remember it to this day. That's all.Music: Silence Hmm... We were stuck in that elevator for five hours. Bah! The same claim Mr. Yogi has made! Very well. Yes, Your Honor. Sound: Testimony 2 Music: Questioning - Moderato (There it is!) I think I know which part, but not exactly which evidence. Still, not like there are a lot of options. (But I don't know what it means...!) (I'd better find out, and quick...)Anyway, we'll press on to try and learn more. That day, I had gone to the courtroom to observe one of my father's trials. What was the trial your father was involved in on that day? I don't remember things very clearly. Only two things... Well that much lines up with what he heard from Grossberg.  Sound: Gallery Sound: Gavel Mr. von Karma? You were handling that case? Like hell you don't. (That was when Edgeworth pointed out the problem in von Karma's evidence...)We're going to have to watch our back after we win this one, aren't we? As we went to leave, an earthquake struck, trapping us in the elevator. Yes. Myself, my father, and Yanni Yogi. We were fine at first... My father and Mr. Yogi lost their composure, and began to argue. What did you do then? I was scared... Trembling, in the corner. But then... Just then, something heavy fell at my feet. What was it? A pistol. I assume it was the bailiff, Yanni Yogi's. And you picked it up. What happened next? I picked it up, and threw it at Mr. Yogi. I wanted them to stop fighting. Did you know it was a pistol when you threw it? I think I knew. I knew it was dangerous. Sound: Fwa-Shing 2 So, you're saying that you threw the pistol at Mr. Yogi. I was... in a daze. A moment later, there was a single gunshot, then a scream. The gun fired once? Yes... We've spent a lot of time talking about how many times a particular pistol was fired in this episode. Do we have something that says it was fired more than once fifteen years ago? Since then... They've echoed in my head, every day. The scream...Sound: Realization It was a terrible scream. I remember it to this day. "To this day"...? Yes. I can practially hear it now. Well, that's all we have.  This line has the only real fact in his testimony. But what could contradict it?
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Jul 22, 2023 01:10
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I love how this basically just sounds like him saying that he usually runs nothing but crooked trials. And I mean, it's true, but you'd think he'd at least not want to admit it. Also, lmao at the notion that Edgeworth would be able to give accurate testimony about a traumatic event from over 10 years ago.
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Jul 22, 2023 01:17
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quote:Thanks, dick.  That moment where everyone's despairing and Phoenix is already 100% focused on turning things around rules, makes you feel all warm inside.
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Jul 22, 2023 07:35
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He spotted the thread to pull from the first moment Edgeworth spoke his version of the incident. He has no clue where it'll lead apart from his innocence of course, but he has done more with less. Still, ol' Manfred here must have really loving hated Gregory.
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Jul 22, 2023 08:13
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| # ? May 23, 2024 09:17 |
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One thing that always bothered me about mystery games is that, by design, the protagonist is more of a passenger than an active agent. They can't very much be ahead of the curve, since the story has to unravel at the player's rate, so the plot and the antagonists have to be the ones to move things into place, other than the occasional declaration of hope and spunk, or maybe some cryptic advice from a friend who is ahead of the plot but doesn't spell it out for you, like Ghost Mia. Which is why I absolutely adore moments where the protagonist actually takes charge. Phoenix just casually going "who cares about the confession; this case hasn't been solved yet" feels so good and earned.
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Jul 22, 2023 11:04
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