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It takes four games for the Protoss to come up with the innovative idea of giving infantry a ranged attack. This is probably linked to the reason they keep getting wooped all the time.
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Jul 14, 2023 17:31
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Poil posted:For all of their supposed brilliantly futuristic high technology the protoss don't have any healthcare beyond shove-'em-into-a-life-support-warframe or any ability to repair or fix something that breaks. It's funny because in SC2 the Protoss inability to heal (outside of using the Spear of Adun) persists, and it's something that AFAIK is never actually explained. We do know, however, that Protoss units and buildings can be healed/repaired outside of battle. My theory is that Protoss physiology and equipment are too complex for robots to handle so it would fall to the Khalai themselves to take care of it, and either sending them out in the middle of a battle was considered too dangerous or Templar would literally rather die than have to suffer the shame of being aided mid-battle by a Khalai. Probably both. Tenebrais posted:You know, that cut line from Fenix does get at a lingering question I had about the Protoss at this point - their whole deal is being a warrior culture, including an entire unit type that consists of injured veterans given exoskeletons so they can keep on fighting. But also there hasn't been a war among the Protoss since the time of Adun in the distant past. So until the Zerg turned up in the sector ~60 years ago, who were they fighting? This is another question that AFAIK goes unanswered. The Protoss at their peak owned hundreds of worlds, but the whole Dae'Uhl thing meant strict non-intervention with other races, so who were they fighting? My best guess is Typical Colonialist Nonsense:™ certain species were considered "enlightened" and thus were protected under the Dae'Uhl, whereas others were considered "dangerous" and thus were fair game for conquest and eradication. Probably with plenty of wink-nudge "These people seem pretty developed, but if we say they were dangerous primitives, who's gonna know?" thrown in for good measure. So I'm guessing that Cythereal's right and the Protoss have been fighting all sorts of small alien species over the centuries that the Terrans have never heard of. This is all speculation, though - again, as far as I know, there's no official answer.
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Jul 14, 2023 17:34
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Eeepies posted:In SC1 there is also technically the interceptor as a fully robotic unit which does damage. Lore-wise aren't the Protoss just repurporsing everyday vehicles for battle, or did that only appeared during sc2? I think that the official lore says the Reaver is some sort of repurposed civilian vehicle, yeah
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Jul 14, 2023 18:20
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JohnKilltrane posted:It's funny because in SC2 the Protoss inability to heal (outside of using the Spear of Adun) persists, and it's something that AFAIK is never actually explained.
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Jul 14, 2023 18:47
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I agree with the other posters that the biggest indictment of the Protoss is that in SC2 they still haven't integrated a particular Brood War era Terran technology (medics) into their loadout. Retooling all their industrial chain and switching to repairable buildings is probably impossible in the timeframe between 1 and 2 though.
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Jul 14, 2023 19:20
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Healing-wise, I'd assume Protoss can heal from minor injuries just like unassisted Terrans can, slowly over the course of days or months - far too slowly to matter to any given battle. Only the zerg's rapid metabolism can make a difference there. I could similarly be convinced that they're perfectly capable of repairing their equipment and infrastructure, but the khalai that do that are never let anywhere near the battlefield. They could warp in some engineers once clear of enemies and warp them out again if it looks like there's going to be another fight. Either to keep them safe or to deny the low-born the honour of combat, possibly both.
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Jul 14, 2023 19:24
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Poil posted:Or maybe they heal/repair by snorting solarite, and the conclave banned that so they can't. Makes as much sense as any other reason. I mean it's actually through that (kinda) that they're able to do it in SC2, so I'd say it makes more sense than any other reason.
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Jul 14, 2023 19:31
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I think my favorite thing about the protons using photosynthesis is that I first saw it in a dev q&a post in the leadup and hype during sc2s late development. People were comically pissed they chose "how do protoss eat without mouths" instead of something related to the actual game being made.
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Jul 14, 2023 19:39
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The reason why protoss units can't be healed in gameplay is a fairly simple one. The zerg can heal because they have ultrafast metabolisms due to the fact that no individual unit is supposed to live very long. Essentially, they relegate all their body's resources to combat efficiency at the cost of pretty much zero lifespan after. The terrans have surprisingly similar reasons why they also can be healed. Did you know that the lifespan of a marine in frontline combat in the lore is the exact same as it is in gameplay? That's roughly 30 seconds or so. Terran combat medicine is implied and explicitly shown at different points to have the singular purpose of keeping them alive just long enough to fight a bit more. It's long term effects are pretty much guaranteed supercancer and stuff in ten years, which no marine will ever see so that's not really important. The protoss cannot operate like that. They can't rely on medicine that trades lifespan for effectiveness because of their low numbers. Instead they have to put their efforts into just not getting hurt at all, which they do with shields and stuff. That's why they can't heal in gameplay. NewMars fucked around with this message at 20:08 on Jul 14, 2023 |
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Jul 14, 2023 20:05
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You can't heal protoss units with terran healing?
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Jul 14, 2023 20:09
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Poil posted:You can't heal protoss units with terran healing? SCVs cannot repair Protoss buildings or mech units but Medics can heal Protoss bio units (so, Zealots, HT, and DT).
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Jul 14, 2023 20:14
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Poil posted:You can't heal protoss units with terran healing? Yeah I believe medics in Brood War can heal some Protoss units through the Dark Archon's mind control, either by mind controlling the medic or mind controlling an SCV so you can build up the Terran tech tree yourself. Edit: beaten to it
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Jul 14, 2023 20:14
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Cool. I thought I had memories of it but wasn't sure if it was SC1 and/or 2. 
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Jul 14, 2023 20:16
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I mean you can, but you probably shouldn't. In all seriousness though that's likely just a gameplay edge case thing, especially considering that said medics would be from the UED in brood war and the idea of the nazi UED knowing anything about protoss biology, especially enough to actually heal them is a bit out there.
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Jul 14, 2023 20:17
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Poil posted:Cool. I thought I had memories of it but wasn't sure if it was SC1 and/or 2. SC2 added SCVs repairing Protoss things, but for the longest time I could have sworn it was in SC1 as well. Since it rarely comes up...
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Jul 14, 2023 20:18
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NewMars posted:I mean you can, but you probably shouldn't.
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Jul 14, 2023 21:01
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The medic has two guns, one shoots staples, the other shoots glue, that should work on most everyone.
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Jul 14, 2023 21:14
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SIGSEGV posted:The medic has two guns, one shoots staples, the other shoots glue, that should work on most everyone. "Marines LOVE gossip. They always spread rumors... like, that we use staple guns to close up wounds. Ugh. Idiots. I use a nail gun; staples are expensive!"
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Jul 14, 2023 21:50
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JohnKilltrane posted:So I'm guessing that Cythereal's right and the Protoss have been fighting all sorts of small alien species over the centuries that the Terrans have never heard of. Turns out all the critters we see are actually the remnants of races that the Protoss fought & kept for 'conservation' and the tracking chips explode the critter if they get jostled (clicked on) too fast.
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Jul 14, 2023 23:52
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I thought the manual for SC1 implied the protoss have lots of big guns in mothballs that they aren't using right now and take too long to come back online to impact this war? I'm sure the entry for the scout tries to get across that we're all supposed to be terribly impressed that this is a mere recon vessel and the real stuff is much better.
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Jul 15, 2023 14:49
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Question how are the protoss purging Terran worlds again?
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Jul 15, 2023 23:19
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They have a big fleet with 40k exterminatus guns
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Jul 15, 2023 23:23
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NewMars posted:I mean you can, but you probably shouldn't. Medics were initially UED, but every other Terran faction in Brood War has them too, including Raynor. My hazy childhood memory suggests I either got healing as Protoss from allied computer Terrans, or vice-versa, on a couple campaign maps.
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Jul 16, 2023 01:33
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Pieces of Peace posted:Medics were initially UED, but every other Terran faction in Brood War has them too, including Raynor. My hazy childhood memory suggests I either got healing as Protoss from allied computer Terrans, or vice-versa, on a couple campaign maps. They would have had to be custom campaign maps; you never have active AI-controlled allies on any official campaign map. It's one of the reasons I enjoy UEDAIP so much. But it's also worth noting that not a single Terran AI player that is not associated with the UED will actually train and use Medics.
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Jul 16, 2023 01:39
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ChaosDragon posted:Question how are the protoss purging Terran worlds again? sirtommygunn posted:They have a big fleet with 40k exterminatus guns Poil fucked around with this message at 11:20 on Jul 16, 2023 |
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Jul 16, 2023 10:38
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Poil posted:Which are not shown in game so I call BS on that. Scouts forever. You do get to see one in Starcraft 2.
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Jul 16, 2023 11:34
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ChaosDragon posted:Question how are the protoss purging Terran worlds again? Carriers have laser beams they use to glass planets. To quote Liberty's Crusade: quote:Where the energy beams struck, they burned. The sky itself curdled as the beams pierced through the atmospheric envelope. Air itself was torn away from the planet by the force of the blows.
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Jul 16, 2023 11:37
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ChaosDragon posted:Question how are the protoss purging Terran worlds again? This was never actually addressed in StarCraft 1 - neither the game itself nor the manual give any hint as to how the Protoss accomplish this. As others said, including BisbyWorl's quote from the book, it's through giant lasers in the Carriers. This would be added in to the game through the illustrated scenes introduced in Starcraft: Remastered:  That being said, even back in '98 I remember my friends and I, as well as my dad and his friends*, speculating that probably the Carriers were doing it and it would make sense that they had some big Death Star-esque laser that was too impractical to use on the actual battlefield. *These were separate conversations I did not invite my friends over to sit around and talk about Starcraft with my dad's friends
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Jul 16, 2023 12:37
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they do kiiiiiinda imply that the Carriers have weapon systems (or something beside the Interceptors) in the final cutscene for Vanilla. That reminds me that I always wished that they had given the Gantrithor an additional attack, just like how Tassadar actually has an attack, while all other High Templar do not
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Jul 16, 2023 13:33
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There's also the intro cinematic where the poor satellite redneck gets wasted by a laser beam.
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Jul 16, 2023 13:59
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Didn't they retconned it in SC2 from glassing entire planet to "just" bombarding the poo poo out of it?
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Jul 16, 2023 20:57
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Yup, because SC2 starts right on Mar Sara as if nothing happened.
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Jul 16, 2023 21:04
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BlazetheInferno posted:They would have had to be custom campaign maps; you never have active AI-controlled allies on any official campaign map. It's one of the reasons I enjoy UEDAIP so much. Wow! That's weird, considering the fiction tie-ins included Dominion medics pretty much immediately after Brood War. But I guess it's exactly the consistency to be expected in a Blizzard narrative.
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Jul 16, 2023 21:06
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Disclaimer: I try to write these Spotlights in such a way that they start general and delve more into the nitty-gritty as it goes on. I bring this up here because this spotlight really got out of hand. We'll be getting pretty technical, so if that's not your bag, you can duck out after the fluff section guilt-free. If that is your bag, then you're welcome/I'm sorry. I'm assuming that if you're following this thread you've also checked out bisbyworl's excellent ongoing SSLP of SC2 but if you haven't, I highly encourage you to check it out. I mention that because a) it's great, and b) they found a better, more readable way to organize the generalities for unit spotlights and I am shamelessly ripping it off. Unit(s) Spotlight: Workers  The SCV as it appears in the manual. I've been wanting to do a spotlight for workers from the word go but it never felt like there was enough to justify an individual one for each of them. So instead now that we've gotten to use all of them, I'm doing one for them combined. Like the Overlord spotlight, this isn't going to follow the standard structure just because of the nature of the units Since we're doing three units at once, the stats will be done in three columns, with the order being SCV/Drone/Probe. If only one value is given, that means it's consistent across all three units. Cost: 50 minerals HP: 60/40/20 Shields: 0/0/20 Armour: 0 Size: Small Damage: 5 Normal DPS: ~7.9/~5.5/~5.5 Range: 0/1/1 Speed: 4.9 Sight: 7/7/8 Special: Hovers, Does Not Benefit From Upgrades There's some modest differences there. SCVs are considerably tankier and attack faster, in exchange for having a melee attack (although, as mentioned in the Defiler spotlight, SCVs are not actually melee units. Instead they're flagged as ranged units with a range of 0. They're identical to melee units in every way with the exception that they cannot do damage under Dark Swarm. Go figure). Does this matter? Well, it can make a difference in competitive play. Obviously workers are mostly used for building and mining (and, in the SCV's case, repairing), but another crucial role is scouting. In the first couple minutes of the game, players will normally send one worker to scout the map to try to determine where the enemy spawned and, hopefully, get inside their base and take a peek at what they're up to. This gives you the intel you need to plan ahead, e.g. "Oh, Zerg has a Spawning Pool but haven't taken an expansion yet, they're probably going to try to rush me, I should put up static defense to prepare," etc etc. This means scouting wars can become a part of the early game - your worker scout runs into their worker scout, you're gonna want to try to kill it, delaying their recon considerably and giving yourself a non-trivial edge. SCVs are the strongest worker, but they're melee whereas Probes and Drones have a very tiny range, making them more micro-able. In general, the Probe and Drone perform similarly, but Protoss regenerate shields slightly faster than Zerg regenerate HP, which can sometimes give them an edge. The other main difference, of course, is that with 50% more HP, SCVs are more resilient against harassment than other races - the drawback being that as we saw in Terran 10, SCVs are the only workers that are vulnerable while building. Finally, the extra vision Probes get can sometimes make the difference between spotting and missing the opponent's early rush.  There's not a lot of fan art or illustrations of workers so here's a Lego SCV, I guess. As noted way, way back in the Vulture spotlight, some units hover, and all three workers are in that category. It means they don't set off Spider Mines (though they can still be damaged by them) and that they have an acceleration and deceleration period like air units rather than abruptly switching between top speed and standstill like ground units. The acceleration speed is the same for all workers. There's been a persistent myth for a long time that Probes accelerate faster than others - this is not true. Where's the myth come from? Well, there is a difference in mining speed - Protoss mine minerals slightly faster than Zerg, who mine slightly faster than Terran. Given the lack of obvious explanation, people theorized that different acceleration speeds led to slightly increased rates of movement. Made sense, but it turns out it's not true at all. All workers move, accelerate, and mine at the same speed. The difference actually comes from the shape of the drop-off building (CC, Hatchery, Nexus), which impacts the amount of frames needed to deliver the minerals. This leads to Nexus having the fastest gather rate, then Hatchery, then Command Center, and of course the slowest is a Command Center with an add-on (but the add-on's worth it). The more you know. Fluff: The T-280 Space Construction Vehicle, or SCV, was first used in rebuilding Tarsonis’ Defense Platforms - you know, the things we razed for good back in Terran mission 8. I’m not sure what they were rebuilding them from, but presumably the Guild Wars. Anyway, it’s a ten foot tall mechanical suit that allows the operator to survive in any environment, handling raw resources and wielding a Fusion Cutter to repair damage to machines, buildings, and, in a pinch, defend the SCV. A fun fact is that SCVs don’t actually construct Terran buildings. Instead, Terran buildings come in little self-assembly packs that the SCV operates. Another fun fact is that SCVs are the only unit in the game flagged as both Mechanical and Biological, making them the only unit that can be harmed by both Irradiate and Lockdown. Neat. On the planet Eldersthine, the Swarm encountered a species called the Gashyrr Wasp which would end up serving as the basis for the Drone. They’ve been engineered with similar code to the Larvae, allowing them to disassemble themselves at a genetic level and transform into the various structures the Swarm requires. They’ve also been engineered to have a single-mindedness that defies all instinct, toiling on no matter what’s going on around them. Which, thank goodness. Remember trying to round up workers after an enemy raid in Warcraft 1? Their weapon is listed merely as “Spines.”  The Drone as it appears in the manual. Finally, as mentioned, in Protoss society menial labour is done almost entirely by Probes. These little robots can handle raw vespene without fear and are capable of manufacturing tiny little micro-beacons that open the rift and allow structures to be warped in. They’re outfitted with a Particle Beam, which presumably is what they use to hew through minerals and is also, as a last resort, a means of self-defense. Probes are robots in the truest sense of the word, lacking any sort of self-awareness, personality, or consciousness. The exception is a Probe that will appear in a cutscene in Starcraft 2, which Blizzard decided somehow became self-aware, developed a curious personality, and became a character called Probius in their MOBA Heroes of the Storm, which… boy, things really went off the rails. Also, Probes are robotic, which means they're immune to Spawn Broodling, which is kinda niche. It does mean, however, that they're the only worker immune to Irradiate, which is a bit more helpful. Mine All Mine: Efficient mining rates is one of the most important things to understand about workers. For vespene it’s pretty simple - the rule of thumb is three workers to a geyser, and that generally holds true, although four can often end up being optimal depending on map placement. Of course as we’ve seen the campaign likes to mess with that formula a fair bit. Not a problem for Terran, where we can move our CC as close to the geyser as possible, or Zerg, where we’ll want extra Hatcheries anyway so might as well put one right there, but as we’ll see it’ll be an issue for Protoss. But generally, 3-4 workers for gas. Minerals are more complicated. With vespene, only one worker can be in the geyser at a time. The same, believe it or not, is actually true for minerals as well: Each mineral patch can only be worked by one worker at a time. This leads to an interesting situation where the more workers you have on a single mineral patch, the more you eliminate downtime from dropping off harvested minerals, but also the more you increase overlap where workers are twiddling their thumbs waiting for someone else to finish with the patch. In other words, putting more workers on a patch results in your ROI decreasing; however, prior to a certain threshold, it also results in your raw amount of minerals gathered increasing. So there’s a balancing act. The general rule of thumb is 2.5 SCVs or Probes per mineral patch - in other words, half the mineral patches at a base are mined by 2, the other half by 3. This is just the point where the math works out to allow the best harvesting rate. In theory you could do more than that, doing 3 on all or even 4 on all, and you would benefit a little - but you’d benefit a lot more from shipping those extra workers off to an expansion, instead.  The Field Manual gives us the scale of the SCV relative to a Marine, to give you the size difference. Zerg, as usual, follow their own rules. With Zerg, you just want one Drone per mineral patch. People can assume that this is because Zerg doesn’t need as many minerals, and it is true that Zerg units are by far the most mineral-efficient. But that’s not why. The real reason why is because having one worker per patch gives the best ROI, and Zerg will take enough expansions that they can have one worker per patch while still matching Terran and Protoss worker counts. If this is confusing for anyone, just think of it this way: More workers total = faster mining, less workers per patch = more efficient mining, therefore having enough expansions to allow for many workers each having their own patch = fastest and most efficient mining. This also gives Zerg an advantage if you’re bad at the game like me and find the twelve-unit selection limit makes it hard to keep track of how many workers an expansion has, since you’ll never have more than nine. Aspiring Terran and Protoss players, your best bet is to do separate counts of the left side and right side of a base’s mineral lines. Finally, this is another use for Cloning: https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3965681&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=14#post517565998 At the start of the game, being able to quickly split your starting workers up so that each is mining their own patch gives a small but non-trivial and occasionally decisive boost to your early mineral gathering.  The Probe as it appears in the manual. Oh, My Love, My Darling: So given how janky and bonkers the pathfinding is in this game, you might be surprised at how smooth the mining process actually is - particularly if it's not your first Blizzard game and you've got experience with worker traffic jams in Warcraft 2 and especially 1. You might be wondering - how did they get it right, when so much of the other pathfinding is off? The answer is they didn't. Instead they went with a workaround. When workers are gathering minerals, they become ghosts. No, not the kind that can call down nukes, the kind that are insubstantial. A worker in the process of mining will clip through other units, as well as things like other mineral patches (which IIRC are technically flagged as units anyway), to reach their destination and return to the drop-off point. The end result is that a) mineral lines are nice and clean and don't get bogged down by the workers colliding with each other or other workers, and b) this can be exploited to clip units (any unit, not just workers) through to otherwise blocked-off areas. True to form, rather than considering it game-breaking, the Brood War community embraced this exploit, and some mapmakers have worked this into their maps. To illustrate, I'll pull up one of the more well-known examples: On this map, Neo-Requiem, there's an expansion in each corner. Each of these expansions is blocked off by an impassable wall of minerals. They're effectively island bases, but with the key difference that air forces and transports aren't necessary to take or harass it - instead the player can just glitch through the minerals to take it.  We have an SCV already at the mineral wall, so we have a second on the way.  The SCV arrives and starts mining. Because it's mining, it's able to clip through the other SCV. If we tell it to Stop here while it's on top of the other SCV...  And as it pushes the two SCVs apart so they don't overlap anymore, it shoves one through the minerals...  ...to appear out the other side...  ...and the SCV is good to start an expansion underneath. This isn't the only way of doing it; just an example. Why does that matter? Well, the process of using workers to push other units through mineral walls is finicky, imprecise, and takes a fair bit of the player's attention (the above sequence took me a few tries). So if you're playing against Terran and you take one of those corner bases, they might feasibly be able to glitch one or two Vultures through to go harass you, but anything more than that generally isn't worth the trouble. If they want to really hit your expansion, they'll have to wait for Dropships to come online. So the mineral wall ends up presenting much of the same defensive advantages as an island base without being something that you have to wait for air units to take it. Another common use is to have a shortcut between two bases blocked by a mineral wall; this can give players a possible but again finicky route for launching sneak attacks, and makes each player weigh carefully whether it's worth investing in defences to watch these avenues or not. Of course, "common" is a relative term - this is still a pretty gimmicky thing that you won't see on the majority of maps. Low-Down, Dirty Tricks. Just a couple of last things to touch on, some fun pranks you can pull with your workers. Protoss can do something called a "gas steal" where, because of warping in, a scouting Probe that's made it into the enemy base can just drop an Assimilator on their geyser. Oh, right, we didn't cover Assimilators in the last mission. They're the Protoss vespene mining building and they don't require a Pylon (instead utilizing raw vespene to power itself). Anyway, put one on the opponent's gas and it'll warp in on its own, preventing the enemy from harvesting gas until they kill it. Particularly commonly seen against Terran, for whom it can be a real pain to deal with. It can slow their build down, and even if it doesn't it can throw them off-kilter and goad them into making mistakes. I find it a pretty funny strategy but as a disclaimer I play Zerg and Protoss generally doesn't bother with this against Zerg. Finally, Zerg have something called the "Extractor trick." Since Drones become buildings, Zerg can Drone up to their supply cap, morph a Drone into an Extractor, morph another Drone to replace it, then cancel the Extractor, allowing them to essentially "cheat" over the supply limit. This actually has fallen out of practice and indeed did so quite a long time ago as the benefit you gain from it is pretty minute, but it's still a neat thing to note. AndnoneforSCVsbye
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Jul 16, 2023 23:50
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(bisbyworl I apologize for lifting your spotlight structure; I tried asking you about it but it got buried pretty quickly)
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Jul 16, 2023 23:51
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JohnKilltrane posted:Disclaimer: I try to write these Spotlights in such a way that they start general and delve more into the nitty-gritty as it goes on. I bring this up here because this spotlight really got out of hand. We'll be getting pretty technical, so if that's not your bag, you can duck out after the fluff section guilt-free. If that is your bag, then you're welcome/I'm sorry. Y'know, I don't see what's wrong with the way you've been doing these Spotlights. I like them, particularly the stuff about multiplayer. Yeah, bisbyworl's SSLP is also great, but I've really been enjoying how you've been doing it. Especially the lore info.
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Jul 17, 2023 01:29
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painedforever posted:Y'know, I don't see what's wrong with the way you've been doing these Spotlights. I like them, particularly the stuff about multiplayer. Seconded. I've enjoyed how you're doing your own thing, John, you don't need to copy how another LP does it.
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Jul 17, 2023 01:35
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painedforever posted:Y'know, I don't see what's wrong with the way you've been doing these Spotlights. I like them, particularly the stuff about multiplayer. Cythereal posted:Seconded. Oh, whoops. The only thing I've copied is listing the general stats in point form rather than paragraph form to make it more readable. If it doesn't change readability then I'll revert. This spotlight didn't have a section for multiplayer but that's only because of the nature of the unit being covered. Those bits will be back from now on.
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Jul 17, 2023 01:42
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Yeah, I feel like this spotlight being different is more due to it being about workers, and the lack of the multiplayer section.
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Jul 17, 2023 01:45
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BlazetheInferno posted:Yeah, I feel like this spotlight being different is more due to it being about workers, and the lack of the multiplayer section. Yeah exactly. The only change I'm making is replacing stuff like: quote:Marines come from the Barracks. For 50 minerals and 1 supply, we get a unit with 40 HP, 6 normal damage (~9.5 DPS), 4 range, 4 speed, and 0 armour. We’ve already seen the two upgrades we can get for the guy: U-238 Shells (increases range from 4 to 5) and Stimpack (increases DPS from ~9.5 to ~14 and movement speed from 4 to 6). With stuff like: JohnKilltrane posted:Cost: 50 minerals Anything else that's different is exclusively due to it being a weird unit to spotlight. Even then, I'm of two minds on it. Paragraph form can make commentary a bit smoother. I'll experiment with the next spotlight, e.g. one for a regular, non-worker unit, and see where I land.
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Jul 17, 2023 02:19
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