Convicted Felon Donald Trump Legal Troubles: Trump Wins Unanimous Vote

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Convicted Felon Donald Trump Legal Troubles: Trump Wins Unanimous Vote

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Jesus III: May 23, 2007

The only thing that would make me happier than these loons all getting jail time is William Tecumseh Sherman coming back from the dead and burning his way across the south.

# ? Jul 18, 2023 22:20

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# ? Jun 6, 2024 11:45

ihop: Jul 23, 2001; King of the Mexicans

I would like to see him pull an Assange and live out the rest of his days in some lovely embassy closet.

# ? Jul 18, 2023 22:21

neurobasalmedium: Sep 12, 2012

ihop posted:

I would like to see him pull an Assange and live out the rest of his days in some lovely embassy closet.

literally a 'lovely' closet

# ? Jul 18, 2023 22:37

Madkal: Feb 11, 2008; Fallen Rib

Something about Trump trying to live off the grid in the Appalachian Hills feels like it would make for a great mid-90s romantic comedy.

# ? Jul 18, 2023 22:41

Hieronymous Alloy: Jan 30, 2009; Why! Why!! Why must you refuse to accept that Dr. Hieronymous Alloy's Genetically Enhanced Cream Corn Is Superior to the Leading Brand on the Market!?!; Morbid Hound

People evade their own security detail all the time.

# ? Jul 18, 2023 22:48

eke out: Feb 24, 2013

Hieronymous Alloy posted:

People evade their own security detail all the time.

(former) presidents aren't people

# ? Jul 18, 2023 23:02

Alkydere: Jun 7, 2010; Capitol: A building or complex of buildings in which any legislature meets.
Capital: A city designated as a legislative seat by the government or some other authority, often the city in which the government is located; otherwise the most important city within a country or a subdivision of it.

Jarmak posted:

He has a 24/7 personal detail of federal agents who accompany him wherever he goes and coordinate his movement with local law enforcement. Trump would have a harder time fleeing the jurisdiction than people who have to break out of jail up do it.

Unless we think his detail has turned preatorian guard and would help him. I find that both extremely unlikely, as well as it being unlikely he's not also under FBI surveillance given the nature of the crimes.

Isn't a problem Biden has been dealing with is that a certain chunk of the SS did and still does absolutely worship the idiot? Trump was the right kind of guy for them (i.e. massive fascist) and Biden absolutely did not trust the SS when re-entering the White House.

I imagine Trump's post-Presidential detail contains at least a few true believers who'd love to help the rear end in a top hat waddle off to try to escape charges. On the other hand, there's at least one SS who's been accurately posting everything the President has been doing to the authorities, including all the information about shuffling about the documents he stole. So I could see such an escape attempt becoming an absolutely hilarious trainwreck.

# ? Jul 18, 2023 23:07

PhantomOfTheCopier: Aug 13, 2008; Pikabooze!

I'm here to say Yay, though I await the actual indictment. Two weeks? Friday?

Interesting that target letters have not been received by RudyG or JEastman (according to their lawyers). Seems a dumb move to acknowledge that since it might incur T wrath when he realizes they're prosecution witnesses. If true, though, it sure suggests enough actual evidence to skip over those small fries and charge T (and one other, Meadows?) with the whole setup.

# ? Jul 18, 2023 23:10

PhantomOfTheCopier: Aug 13, 2008; Pikabooze!

https://twitter.com/annabower/status/1681391174676774924

Cannon derps again.

quote:

As Judge Aileen Cannon made her debut at a hearing in the classified documents case, she appeared disinclined to grant the Special Counsel’s request for a December trial date…but also seemed skeptical of Trump & Nauta’s bid to delay the trial until after the 2024 election.

She remains out of her league.

# ? Jul 18, 2023 23:15

Jarmak: Jan 24, 2005

Alkydere posted:

Isn't a problem Biden has been dealing with is that a certain chunk of the SS did and still does absolutely worship the idiot? Trump was the right kind of guy for them (i.e. massive fascist) and Biden absolutely did not trust the SS when re-entering the White House.

I imagine Trump's post-Presidential detail contains at least a few true believers who'd love to help the rear end in a top hat waddle off to try to escape charges. On the other hand, there's at least one SS who's been accurately posting everything the President has been doing to the authorities, including all the information about shuffling about the documents he stole. So I could see such an escape attempt becoming an absolutely hilarious trainwreck.

If Trump had that level of loyalty from the SS they wouldn't have dragged him away from his coup attempt. Regardless, this theory requires the DOJ to argue that Trump is a flight risk because the Secret Service is going to smuggle him out of the country, which seems like a bit of a non-starter to me.

# ? Jul 18, 2023 23:15

socialsecurity: Aug 30, 2003

Hieronymous Alloy posted:

People evade their own security detail all the time.

Those people are probably able to walk up stairs.

# ? Jul 18, 2023 23:15

Jarmak: Jan 24, 2005

Hieronymous Alloy posted:

People evade their own security detail all the time.

Rich people with mall cop body guards evade their security detail all the time, this is the highest-profile man on the planet evading a US Secret Service presidential protection detail.

# ? Jul 18, 2023 23:20

Oracle: Oct 9, 2004

Jarmak posted:

Rich people with mall cop body guards evade their security detail all the time, this is the highest-profile man on the planet evading a US Secret Service presidential protection detail.

President's kids evade SS all the time.

# ? Jul 18, 2023 23:24

Tayter Swift: Nov 18, 2002; Pillbug

ihop posted:

I would like to see him pull an Assange and live out the rest of his days in some lovely embassy closet.

In a 6-3 Decision, SCOTUS has ruled Hole 6 of Bedminster to be sovereign territory

# ? Jul 18, 2023 23:24

MrMojok: Jan 28, 2011

Cannon is mainly confused as to how she can delay the trial past Nov 2024 without having her own chud brethren on the circuit superior court take a giant poo poo on her face like they did before

Her compatriots in the Federal Society are giving her advice, but it doesn�t make sense to her, it all leads to wearing poo poo on her face and having her rulings reversed.

Must protect Trump, but cannot.

What do?!?

# ? Jul 18, 2023 23:29

mobby_6kl: Aug 9, 2009; by Fluffdaddy

Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:

Those are the countries without extradition treaties with the U.S.

Whoever said "living in interesting times is a curse" was clearly wrong because that's some seriously amazing poo poo.

E: other than the war, the war sucks

PhantomOfTheCopier posted:

I'm here to say Yay, though I await the actual indictment. Two weeks? Friday?

Interesting that target letters have not been received by RudyG or JEastman (according to their lawyers). Seems a dumb move to acknowledge that since it might incur T wrath when he realizes they're prosecution witnesses. If true, though, it sure suggests enough actual evidence to skip over those small fries and charge T (and one other, Meadows?) with the whole setup.

Yeah there are rumors Rudy might've flipped but I don't know if there's anything to support that other than not getting the letter (yet)
https://www.salon.com/2023/07/18/sounds-like-rudy-flipped-giuliani-evades-jan-6-target-letter-after-meeting-with-prosecutors/

# ? Jul 18, 2023 23:29

Professor Beetus: Apr 12, 2007; They can fight us
But they'll never Beetus

PhantomOfTheCopier posted:

https://twitter.com/annabower/status/1681391174676774924

Cannon derps again.

She remains out of her league.

It's cool that the system we have allowed for this outcome after her previous bungling and obvious malfeasance.

# ? Jul 18, 2023 23:40

PhantomOfTheCopier: Aug 13, 2008; Pikabooze!

News slowly leaking that Meadows removed 1000 documents with classified markings at Ts instructions, and Rolling Stone has an article up saying the GJ is not looking at sedition but witness tampering and defrauding the govt types of charges. Pending additional sources, so don't quote me on the details yet.

Talking to self:

I also find the DeSantis comments dumb (imagine that!). If it's "water under the bridge" today, are you saying T should have been seated in the electric chair March 2021? Or that the documents trial needs to be quickened, as do all the others? Just because a twice impeached loser claims election interference, when charges and investigations were announced long before and presidential election, and specifically delayed until after midterms, doesn't mean there's any interference. The true issue is your party's complete lack of any positive message.

# ? Jul 18, 2023 23:41

smackfu: Jun 7, 2004

Piell posted:

https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/1681398445347618830

�Uttering and Publishing� is pretty cool as crime names go.

Sounds like it is the crime that happens when you try to use a forged document.

# ? Jul 18, 2023 23:42

Tayter Swift: Nov 18, 2002; Pillbug

Now that I think about it it seems a little surprising that Flynn hasn't skipped the country yet.

# ? Jul 18, 2023 23:43

smackfu: Jun 7, 2004

PhantomOfTheCopier posted:

https://twitter.com/annabower/status/1681391174676774924

Cannon derps again.

She remains out of her league.

This is literally just saying she is skeptical of both sides.

# ? Jul 18, 2023 23:43

Murgos: Oct 21, 2010

Judgy Fucker posted:

Mar-a-Lago being the locus of the coming Kingdom of God would be quite unexpected

He has all the characteristics of the antichrist so, uh, not really that unexpected.

# ? Jul 19, 2023 00:11

Main Paineframe: Oct 27, 2010

PhantomOfTheCopier posted:

https://twitter.com/annabower/status/1681391174676774924

Cannon derps again.

She remains out of her league.

Did you mean to copy-paste something else? Because I don't see how you get from this tweet thread to "Cannon derps again" and think it's so obvious and self-explanatory that it requires no further commentary. At least not unless you have a very strongly held preexisting opinion about how things will play out, and are interpreting everything through that lens.

All this thread really says is that Judge Cannon thinks that six months might be too short for discovery and other necessary pre-trial preparations, but also that eighteen months is too long. I don't think that sounds super obviously unreasonable!

# ? Jul 19, 2023 00:12

BiggerBoat: Sep 26, 2007; Don't you tell me my business again.

OgNar posted:

Here is a copy of that super long and whiny Trump post.
Says he has 4 days from Sunday to report to GJ.

https://twitter.com/patriottakes/status/1681299909268631552

That's a lot of words to say "witch hunt"

# ? Jul 19, 2023 00:24

Murgos: Oct 21, 2010

PhantomOfTheCopier posted:

I'm here to say Yay, though I await the actual indictment. Two weeks? Friday?

I hope it�s Friday. I want to spend my weekend reading a detailed indictment and poo poo posting about it while reading ever more deranged truth farts that descend into madness.

# ? Jul 19, 2023 00:38

Uglycat: Dec 4, 2000; MORE INDISPUTABLE PROOF I AM BAD AT POSTING
---------------->

Meatball posted:

He'd almost definitely post about it before he did it. Maybe to even brainstorm potential countries.

https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2020/10/17/trump-leave-the-country-sot-macon-rally-nr-vpx.cnn

# ? Jul 19, 2023 00:52

Caros: May 14, 2008

BiggerBoat posted:

That's a lot of words to say "witch hunt"

More like 'Which hunt?' amirite?

# ? Jul 19, 2023 01:06

snorch: Jul 27, 2009

OgNar posted:

Here is a copy of that super long and whiny Trump post.
Says he has 4 days from Sunday to report to GJ.

https://twitter.com/patriottakes/status/1681299909268631552

I went to high school in Germany and in history class they taught us how antisemitic propaganda was effective due to its simple slogans, whereas flyers posted in defense of our friends the jews were often full-page essays.

I guess what I'm saying is, lol.

# ? Jul 19, 2023 01:23

Zero_Grade: Mar 18, 2004; Darktider 🖤🌊

~Neck Angels~

Underrated funniest non-extradition country for him to flee to: Cuba

smackfu posted:

�Uttering and Publishing� is pretty cool as crime names go.

Sounds like it is the crime that happens when you try to use a forged document.

The formal name for 'talk poo poo, fake lit'

# ? Jul 19, 2023 01:35

BigglesSWE: Dec 2, 2014; How 'bout them hawks news huh!

snorch posted:

I went to high school in Germany and in history class they taught us how antisemitic propaganda was effective due to its simple slogans, whereas flyers posted in defense of our friends the jews were often full-page essays.

I guess what I'm saying is, lol.

I genuinely think that Trump's presence on Twitter was enormously helpful in creating his persona, not the least because (at the time) Twitter only allowed a limited amount of characters, meaning he couldn't go on these wall-of-texts tirades.

I mean this is obviously a pdf. posted on the account but the point stands. Giving him *more* space to talk is actively hurting his messaging.

# ? Jul 19, 2023 01:40

BiggerBoat: Sep 26, 2007; Don't you tell me my business again.

I didn't even read that loving thing and I bet I could tell you what it said or write it out word for word with 90% accuracy.

# ? Jul 19, 2023 02:49

Xand_Man: Mar 2, 2004; If what you say is true
Wutang might be dangerous

jfc that first paragraph is one sentence

# ? Jul 19, 2023 02:54

smackfu: Jun 7, 2004

It�s a good sentence diagramming exercise.

# ? Jul 19, 2023 03:36

Murgos: Oct 21, 2010

Xand_Man posted:

jfc that first paragraph is one sentence

It�s amazing how he can�t help but suck his own dick in the middle of trying to make a statement about being arrested.

# ? Jul 19, 2023 03:47

Charlz Guybon: Nov 16, 2010

Some interesting details in here.
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/07/18/opinion/trump-false-electors-michigan.html

quote:

Trump�s Conspirators Are Facing the Music, Finally
July 18, 2023

By Norman Eisen and Ryan Goodman

Mr. Eisen is a senior fellow at the Brookings Institution. Mr. Goodman is a law professor at New York University.

We�ve reached a turning point in the effort to ensure there are consequences for those who deliberately attempt to undermine our democracy: Michigan�s attorney general, Dana Nessel, charged 16 Republican leaders in her state on Tuesday for their role as fake electors working to overturn the results of the 2020 election. The charges, coming on the heels of news that the special counsel Jack Smith has informed Donald Trump that he�s a target of the Department of Justice�s investigation into the Capitol riot, mean we are witnessing a new and necessary phase in this quest for accountability, one in which the federal and state wheels of justice work to hold people accountable not only for the violence on Jan. 6, but also for what got us there: the alleged scheme to interfere with the transfer of power.

The charges in Michigan will surely meet criticism on all sides. Some will say the case is not broad or bold enough, that Mr. Trump and the other alleged national ringleaders should have been charged as well. Others will say Ms. Nessel cast too wide a net, pulling in low-level party functionaries who did not know better. We think those critiques are misconceived. Ms. Nessel got it just right, prosecuting crimes firmly within her jurisdiction, while opening the way for federal authorities to net even bigger fish.

Ms. Nessel brought the same eight counts against all 16 defendants. The offenses include conspiracy to commit forgery, since the defendants are accused of signing documents stating they were the qualified electors (they were not), and publishing forged documents by circulating these materials to federal and state authorities. On paper, the penalties for the offenses range from five to 14 years, but sentencing in this case would presumably be lower than that maximum.

Until now there have been no charges centered on the fake electors plot. For that reason alone, Michigan�s action brings a sense of needed accountability for those who fanned the rioters� passions leading up to Jan. 6 by spinning a false narrative about a stolen election.

Michigan saw some of the most outrageous fake electoral certificates to emerge during the period leading up to the Capitol riot. Unlike the fake certificates in Pennsylvania and New Mexico, the Michigan documents did not include a disclaimer that they were to be used only in the case of litigation. What�s more, the documents contained more outright false statements than simply declaring that the signers were the lawful electors of the winning candidate.

For example, they state that the electors �convened and organized in the State Capitol,� when, according to the attorney general, they were hidden away in the basement of the state Republican headquarters. (It seems likely that the fake electors included this lie because Michigan law requires presidential electors to meet in the Capitol � a requirement and legal problem that a Trump campaign legal adviser, Kenneth Chesebro, had flagged in his confidential memorandum setting out the scheme.)

In proving these cases, establishing intent will be key. Here, there are several indicators that the defendants may have been aware of the illicit nature of their gathering. According to congressional testimony from the state Republican Party�s chairwoman at the time, Laura Cox, the group originally planned to meet inside the Capitol and hide overnight, so they could vote in the building the following day. Ms. Cox said she told a lawyer working with the Trump campaign and supposedly organizing the fake electors �in no uncertain terms that that was insane and inappropriate,� and �a very, very bad idea and potentially illegal.�

As she put it, Ms. Cox was �very uncomfortable� with facilitating a meeting of the fake elector group, and said so at the time in accord with her lawyers� opinion. Ms. Cox even urged the group to draft a significantly more measured document simply �stating that if perhaps something were to happen in the courts, they were willing and able to serve as electors from Michigan for Donald Trump.� Her advice was not followed.

At the time the fake electors met to allegedly forge their documents, they should have been aware that state officials had certified the election results for Joe Biden � it was national and state news. By that point, there was no prospect of changing that outcome through either litigation or legislative action. On the day prosecutors say the fake electors met, two of the most powerful Republicans in the state acknowledged as much. Mike Shirkey, the majority leader in the State Senate, and Lee Chatfield, the House speaker, both issued statements declaring the presidential race over. Mr. Shirkey said that Michigan�s �Democratic slate of electors should be able to proceed with their duty� without the threat of harassment or violence.

The fake electors were told they were not allowed to bring their phones into the meeting at the Republican headquarters that day, according to testimony one of them gave congressional investigators. They were instructed to maintain secrecy and not to share any details about what was occurring. That secrecy suggests that they knew what they were doing was wrong.

Michigan�s former secretary of state, Terri Lynn Land, who had been designated a Trump elector, declined to participate in the proceedings, saying, according to Ms. Cox�s testimony, she was not comfortable doing so.

With these facts, it would have been unthinkable for the state attorney general to choose not to prosecute the Michigan 16. Ms. Nessel�s office has regularly brought prosecutions, some of them against her fellow Democrats, centered on false documents in connection with elections. The case of the fake electors is far more egregious than most of those other cases: The defendants here were politically engaged individuals who should have been aware of the election results, as well as the flat rejection by the courts and Michigan Legislature of the Trump campaign�s claims of voter fraud.

To be sure, some critics of the case may still think that the Michigan attorney general should have gone after Mr. Trump and his top lieutenants, who helped organize the false electors. But prosecutors have a responsibility first to pursue those individuals within their jurisdiction. By focusing solely on the figures who undertook their acts in Michigan, Ms. Nessel is wisely insulating her case against charges that she overreached, exceeding her jurisdiction.

Of course, broader prosecutions may still be justified. Reporting indicates that the district attorney for Fulton County, Ga., Fani Willis, may be considering a different kind of wide-ranging case, involving state RICO crimes. Unlike the Michigan prosecution, her case may focus on Mr. Trump�s direct efforts to pressure state election officials � efforts that were caught on tape � and Rudy Giuliani�s attempt to provide false statements of election fraud to state officials.

If broad-based indictments ultimately emerge out of Georgia, and are supported by the facts and appropriate law, then we would welcome it. That is part of the genius of American democracy: The states, which are responsible for running our elections, are laboratories of both democracy and of accountability.

Ms. Nessel�s case also leaves a clear lane for Mr. Smith, the special counsel. She has avoided charging high-level national individuals whom Mr. Smith is apparently investigating. If anything, her case provides greater foundation for Mr. Smith to act, and he now seems to be following through. If Ms. Nessel can move against these individuals in Michigan, Mr. Smith can and should do the same against the ringleaders. Together, they can hold both the foot soldiers and their organizers accountable for their actions leading up to the Capitol riot.

# ? Jul 19, 2023 04:06

Paracaidas: Sep 24, 2016; Consistently Tedious!

PhantomOfTheCopier posted:

https://twitter.com/annabower/status/1681391174676774924

Cannon derps again.

She remains out of her league.

This is nonsense, as it was last time you tried to analyze a hearing.

You've failed to identify the actually newsworthy bit of the hearing:

quote:

At one point in the proceedings, Cannon asked whether a Manhattan judge may be open to moving Trump�s separate criminal trial in New York in March 2024, which is expected to last three weeks.

And are wrong about what you did highlight

quote:

Jay Bratt appeared to concede the "aggressive" schedule was aspirational.

"We feel it is very important that we have a trial date to work from, realizing that the trial date may not be set in stone."

The government is pushing for an earlier trial date so that Trump's team have to try and postpone particular steps with particular reasons instead of the generalized objections to the concept of a trial itself we saw in their most recent filing. Knowing that Trump badly wants to delay, they're pushing that date to be earlier with the recognition that even an impartial judge will be able to justify weeks of slip in the schedule.

While the case is uncommon (in ways that both push for and pull against an earlier date), the gap between indictment and resolution (plea or verdict) is commonly 8-12 months and the March timeframe sits squarely in that range.

Cannon has provided an unprecedented amount of poo poo to :bahgawd: