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What is the most powerful flying bug?
This poll is closed.
🦋 15 3.71%
🦇 115 28.47%
🪰 12 2.97%
🐦 67 16.58%
dragonfly 94 23.27%
🦟 14 3.47%
🐝 87 21.53%
Total: 404 votes
[Edit Poll (moderators only)]

 
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Weka
May 5, 2019

That child totally had it coming. Nobody should be able to be out at dusk except cars.

Frosted Flake posted:

There is an entire chapter on the steam engine on one of these books on Hellenistic technology - the term itself reveals trying to understand the past through the ideology of the present because the Greek techne means craftsmanship, which as you explained, is what it was.

Like the many, many wheeled toys that have been found in Mesoamerican societies that “never invented the wheel”, the actual social and material reality does not translate into liberal history. There is not a single animal indigenous to Mexico or Peru that can pull a plow or wheeled vehicle, so even if they had “invented” plows and (larger) wheels for their own sake - what were they going to do with them?

21st century liberals are still finding ways to say these people were stupid and primitive unlike the Enlightened Europeans, without looking at anything material. I’d go further and suggest they deliberately avoid a materialist approach because it undermines their own sense of superiority. If oxen and horses lived in the Americas, I’m sure these complex and productive societies would have developed them. Look how quickly all indigenous societies that encountered the horse and cattle, worldwide, adopted them.

Lamas can pull a small cart just fine. Also
"According to Juan Ignacio Molina, the Dutch captain Joris van Spilbergen observed the use of hueques (possibly a llama type) by native Mapuches of Mocha Island as plow animals in 1614.[55]"

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January 6 Survivor
Jan 6, 2022

The
Nelson Mandela
of clapping
dusty old cheeks


( o(

KomradeX posted:

Bring back punt guns

bring back recoilless rifles loaded with beehive rounds

- it's a shotgun, that oughta gently caress up any drone real bad
- it won't leave UXO since it's, you know, inert
- recoilless shotguns have huge signatures but if it's used to defend an objective it means the enemy already knows about whatever you're trying to defend anyway
- I guess it's cheap enough? right?

Regarde Aduck
Oct 19, 2012

c l o u d k i t t e n
Grimey Drawer

Al-Saqr posted:

yeah i think at this point its a given that the ukranian counter offensive has failed, the problem for the russians is that they cant exploit that failure so the ukranians will just re-arm and try again later.

like when nazi germany rearmed, came back and took stalingrad

HiroProtagonist
May 7, 2007

mawarannahr posted:

i saw it. :whitewater:

e: you should have left it up it would have been worth it

Tell us what kind of weird porn Al accidentally posted already

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010

HELL SERPENT
Lipstick Apathy

Regarde Aduck posted:

like when nazi germany rearmed, came back and took stalingrad

Gregory Liedtke's "Enduring the Whirlwind: The German Army and the Russo-German War" makes a strong case that the Ostheer actually did manage to completely rebuild itself between the 1941 and 1942 campaign periods, which belies the assertion that Fall Blau failed largely because the Axis militaries were depleted going into Spring 1942. In effect, the Soviets defeated the Germans twice, from their full strength.

HiroProtagonist
May 7, 2007

gradenko_2000 posted:

Gregory Liedtke's "Enduring the Whirlwind: The German Army and the Russo-German War" makes a strong case that the Ostheer actually did manage to completely rebuild itself between the 1941 and 1942 campaign periods, which belies the assertion that Fall Blau failed largely because the Axis militaries were depleted going into Spring 1942. In effect, the Soviets defeated the Germans twice, from their full strength.

Zhukov ftw

Regarde Aduck
Oct 19, 2012

c l o u d k i t t e n
Grimey Drawer

gradenko_2000 posted:

Gregory Liedtke's "Enduring the Whirlwind: The German Army and the Russo-German War" makes a strong case that the Ostheer actually did manage to completely rebuild itself between the 1941 and 1942 campaign periods, which belies the assertion that Fall Blau failed largely because the Axis militaries were depleted going into Spring 1942. In effect, the Soviets defeated the Germans twice, from their full strength.

god drat it

but also soviet russia ftw

HiroProtagonist
May 7, 2007

Regarde Aduck posted:

soviet russia ftw

Starsfan
Sep 29, 2007

This is what happens when you disrespect Cam Neely

Al-Saqr posted:

yeah i think at this point its a given that the ukranian counter offensive has failed, the problem for the russians is that they cant exploit that failure so the ukranians will just re-arm and try again later.

re-arm? you mean the amputees that are getting prosthetics so they can join back up with their buddies at the front?

**we're at the part of the requisitioning process where the stuff that is being announced for Ukrainian aid shipments is stuff that won't be available for years. I don't think the NATO powers have another armies worth of equipment to send Ukraine, they got to deal with what they have for now..

Starsfan has issued a correction as of 05:46 on Jul 19, 2023

galagazombie
Oct 31, 2011

A silly little mouse!

Regarde Aduck posted:

like when nazi germany rearmed, came back and took stalingrad

That comparison doesn’t really work because for Russia this isn’t a total war. Yes the Russians could conscript every male of fighting age, convert every tractor factory into a tank factory etc etc. But they won’t. Russia is only even still fighting this war instead of having a victory parade because they thought they could do it on the cheap. Ukraine would have to actually credibly threaten to take Crimea or push to the Russian border (which also won’t happen because the Ukrainians can’t) for Russia to be willing to really buckle down.

Lostconfused
Oct 1, 2008

Danann posted:

https://twitter.com/DavidSacks/status/1681028889399762945
https://twitter.com/DavidSacks/status/1681036393122766848

just a few more on the "western talking heads predicting the destruction of cowardly orcs through western ubermensch maneuver warfare" pile

I loving thought that integrating fresh recruits/conscripts into a veteran unit was a thing that was known to work since the french got the idea for a citizen army?

HiroProtagonist
May 7, 2007
yeah but they lose overall veterancy level so you have to take the stat difference between three stars and one and a half stars into account when you merge units

Lostconfused
Oct 1, 2008

Donrf#КРПР posted:


All together. Zaporozhye and the DNR now share a common destiny
(from t.me/donrf22/25581, via tgsa)

Shuttle bus service from Crimea to Donetsk along the land corridor.

Slim Jim Pickens
Jan 16, 2012

gradenko_2000 posted:

Gregory Liedtke's "Enduring the Whirlwind: The German Army and the Russo-German War" makes a strong case that the Ostheer actually did manage to completely rebuild itself between the 1941 and 1942 campaign periods, which belies the assertion that Fall Blau failed largely because the Axis militaries were depleted going into Spring 1942. In effect, the Soviets defeated the Germans twice, from their full strength.

The Germans tried a repeat of Barbarossa tactics of driving forward really fast and abandoning poo poo if it broke down until they got to mountains, barren steppe, and Stalingrad, and suddenly found like four Fronts waiting for them. This time they hadn't actually managed to encircle very much of the Soviet lead elements so the Germans had extended their front insanely far to accomplish almost nothing.

dead gay comedy forums
Oct 21, 2011


gradenko_2000 posted:

Gregory Liedtke's "Enduring the Whirlwind: The German Army and the Russo-German War" makes a strong case that the Ostheer actually did manage to completely rebuild itself between the 1941 and 1942 campaign periods, which belies the assertion that Fall Blau failed largely because the Axis militaries were depleted going into Spring 1942. In effect, the Soviets defeated the Germans twice, from their full strength.

:stare:

like, holy poo poo, never heard anything like it before, that would be a serious deep cut. Like what the gently caress the German effort was downplayed to make the soviets not look better? what the f-

quote:

About the author (2018)
Gregory Liedtke is a military historian and doctoral graduate of the War Studies Program at the Royal Military College of Canada. An enthusiast of Military History in general, his particular research interests reside in both the study of the German Army during the Second World War and the Russo-German War of 1941-45.

well that ain't the marxist school of nanjing or the school of political economy of leningrad

quote:

Despite the best efforts of a number of historians, many aspects of the ferocious struggle between Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union during the Second World War remain obscure or shrouded in myth. One of the most persistent of these is the notion - largely created by many former members of its own officer corps in the immediate postwar period - that the German Army was a paragon of military professionalism and operational proficiency whose defeat on the Eastern Front was solely attributable to the amateurish meddling of a crazed former Corporal and the overwhelming numerical superiority of the Red Army. A key pillar upon which the argument of German numerical-weakness vis-à-vis the Red Army has been constructed is the assertion that Germany was simply incapable of providing its army with the necessary quantities of men and equipment needed to replace its losses. In consequence, as their losses outstripped the availability of replacements, German field formations became progressively weaker until they were incapable of securing their objectives or, eventually, of holding back the swelling might of the Red Army.

This work seeks to address the notion of German numerical-weakness in terms of Germany's ability to replace its losses and regenerate its military strength, and assess just how accurate this argument was during the crucial first half of the Russo-German War (June 1941-June 1943).

Employing a host of primary documents and secondary literature, it traces the development and many challenges of the German Army from the prewar period until the invasion of the Soviet Union in June 1941. It continues on to chart the first two years of the struggle between Germany and the Soviet Union, with a particular emphasis upon the scale of German personnel and equipment losses, and how well these were replaced. It also includes extensive examinations into the host of mitigating factors that both dictated the course of Germany's campaign in the East and its replacement and regeneration capabilities.

In contrast to most accounts of the conflict, this study finds that numerical-weakness being the primary factor in the defeat of the Ostheer - specifically as it relates to the strength and condition of the German units involved - has been overemphasized and frequently exaggerated.In fact, Germany was actually able to regenerate its forces to a remarkable degree with a steady flow of fresh men and equipment, and German field divisions on the Eastern Front were usually far stronger than the accepted narratives of the war would have one believe.

WHAT

Slim Jim Pickens
Jan 16, 2012

Lostconfused posted:

I loving thought that integrating fresh recruits/conscripts into a veteran unit was a thing that was known to work since the french got the idea for a citizen army?

Not if the vets are trained wrong. Also we can train the new guys on a leaner and more streamlined programme, it's more efficient because they spend less time doing exercises and more time kicking butt!

DancingShade
Jul 26, 2007

by Fluffdaddy

Has anyone ID'd that jacket yet so the Prigozian boys can dress accordingly?

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010

HELL SERPENT
Lipstick Apathy

dead gay comedy forums posted:

:stare:

like, holy poo poo, never heard anything like it before, that would be a serious deep cut. Like what the gently caress the German effort was downplayed to make the soviets not look better? what the f-

well that ain't the marxist school of nanjing or the school of political economy of leningrad

WHAT

Lmfao it's incredible right? I listened to it on audiobook the first time through, I think around early 2019, and it's one of those works where you stop at the sidewalk, take the earphones off and go "what?" to no one in particular as you grasp the enormity of what's being said.

Slim Jim Pickens
Jan 16, 2012

dead gay comedy forums posted:

well that ain't the marxist school of nanjing or the school of political economy of leningrad

WHAT

A Canadian military historian was also the guy to bust down SLA Marshall's stupid theory about soldiers not shooting in combat by simply reading the study and seeing that Marshall was claiming to have interviewed a soldier every 5 seconds for a whole month of frontline interviews. This study btw is the foundation behind "killology" and other military/police brutalization training where they try to condition shooters to automatically open fire on human shapes.

KomradeX
Oct 29, 2011

galagazombie posted:

That comparison doesn’t really work because for Russia this isn’t a total war. Yes the Russians could conscript every male of fighting age, convert every tractor factory into a tank factory etc etc. But they won’t. Russia is only even still fighting this war instead of having a victory parade because they thought they could do it on the cheap. Ukraine would have to actually credibly threaten to take Crimea or push to the Russian border (which also won’t happen because the Ukrainians can’t) for Russia to be willing to really buckle down.

Its just doubly hilarious that even this tiny effort by the Russians would be impossible for the US and every other NATO country

Cuttlefush
Jan 15, 2014

gotta have my purp

HiroProtagonist posted:

yeah but they lose overall veterancy level so you have to take the stat difference between three stars and one and a half stars into account when you merge units

Ardennes
May 12, 2002

sum posted:

Ukraine is down to firing "2,000 to 3,000" shells per day. Thankfully they plan to fix the problem in only a few years by incentivizing private manufacturers to expand capacity.
https://www.cnn.com/2023/07/18/politics/ukraine-critical-ammo-shortage-us-nato-grapple/index.html

Didn't some dude on Twitter just say the Ukrainians have an advantage in tube artillery?

Starsfan
Sep 29, 2007

This is what happens when you disrespect Cam Neely

Ardennes posted:

Didn't some dude on Twitter just say the Ukrainians have an advantage in tube artillery?

localized to one specific area of the front, for one sub-component of artillery, according to Ukrainian sources...

Pistol_Pete
Sep 15, 2007

Oven Wrangler

sum posted:

I mean, they can't outright print the real reason in the paper, which is that the AFU is incompetent at planning and executing a combined arms operation because there's a dearth of qualified officers and because the army has been watered down with barely-trained reservists and conscripts. So the best they can do is allude to it by saying their planning is "Soviet-style" (i.e. bad) and that the grunts should be pressed to demonstrate more elan.

I mean, the WaPo did note that the Ukrainians were failing to execute large-scale combined operations and that things were all disjointed but left it as just one of those inexplicable things, rather than coming out and stating the obvious.

Pener Kropoopkin
Jan 30, 2013

dead gay comedy forums posted:

:stare:

like, holy poo poo, never heard anything like it before, that would be a serious deep cut. Like what the gently caress the German effort was downplayed to make the soviets not look better? what the f-

well that ain't the marxist school of nanjing or the school of political economy of leningrad

WHAT

iirc the Red Army didn’t even have numerical superiority over the Axis until 1944.

KomradeX
Oct 29, 2011

DEFENSE

Ukraine Could Get 60-Year-Old Ex-British Chieftan Tanks




quote:

On Tuesday, Ukrainian journalist Roman Bochkala posted a video of himself apparently somewhere in the United Kingdom, standing in front of a crew working on a half-painted tank.

The tank and others like it soon would be in Ukraine, Bochkala said.

Bochkala described the tank as a 1980s-vintage Challenger 1. It’s not. It’s a Chieftan, the 62-ton tank that came before the Challenger 1 ... in the 1960s.

The diesel-powered, four-person Chieftan is obsolete but not useless. “It will comprehensively outclass [ex-Soviet] T-54/55, T-62, T-64 and T-72 [tanks],” tweeted Nicholas Drummond, a British armor consultant.

A Chieftan can fire, while moving, a wide array of modern rounds from its 120-millimeter rifled gun out to a distance of two or three miles.





lol, lmao

DancingShade
Jul 26, 2007

by Fluffdaddy
Look forward to an onslaught of overly fawning "thank you we so grateful meestah westerner mastah sah" style PR posts after the dressing downs post NATO summit.

Ardennes
May 12, 2002
The Chieftain's maximum road speed is 25-27 mph an hour.

Cerebral Bore
Apr 21, 2010


Fun Shoe

dead gay comedy forums posted:

:stare:

like, holy poo poo, never heard anything like it before, that would be a serious deep cut. Like what the gently caress the German effort was downplayed to make the soviets not look better? what the f-

well that ain't the marxist school of nanjing or the school of political economy of leningrad

WHAT

not really surprising given that germany basically had the whole of europe under their thumb at that point and could plunder at will

Slim Jim Pickens
Jan 16, 2012

Cerebral Bore posted:

not really surprising given that germany basically had the whole of europe under their thumb at that point and could plunder at will

Well, Germans had some 6 months to rearm basically, because after the Winter of 1941 there was the mud season where they hunkered down. In 1942 the Soviets pulled a really bad own goal at Kharkov and didn't do very well at Rzhev, which allowed the Germans to recuperate in time to launch Fall Blau

Cerebral Bore
Apr 21, 2010


Fun Shoe
like, it's hard to overstate how much poo poo the nazis managed to steal, they had some hefty stockpiles lying around

dead gay comedy forums
Oct 21, 2011


Cerebral Bore posted:

not really surprising given that germany basically had the whole of europe under their thumb at that point and could plunder at will

sure; my surprise comes from how much that narrative dominates even socialist historiography because I never seen that overall point challenged* (and makes sense as it portrayed the merit of communist organization and central planning)

* not the profissionalism or discipline part, the production/logistics part - most non-military commentaries I've seen attest to the logistic capability of the USSR in wartime from the perspective of political economy, which was a much broader lens of analysis

then suddenly not only that but oh the Red Army beat the poo poo out of the fucks twice on their full strength with them not having their alleged handicap? praise zhukov holy poo poo

Cuttlefush
Jan 15, 2014

gotta have my purp
wonder what that troop who went to russia is up to

Homeless Friend
Jul 16, 2007

Endman
May 18, 2010

That is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even anime may die


gradenko_2000 posted:

Gregory Liedtke's "Enduring the Whirlwind: The German Army and the Russo-German War" makes a strong case that the Ostheer actually did manage to completely rebuild itself between the 1941 and 1942 campaign periods, which belies the assertion that Fall Blau failed largely because the Axis militaries were depleted going into Spring 1942. In effect, the Soviets defeated the Germans twice, from their full strength.

This is a Helion & Company book, so be very careful. That company aims their products almost exclusively towards wargamers and they aren't a university press or other specialist academic publisher like Routledge. You're basically reading a more in-depth Osprey book.

Slavvy
Dec 11, 2012

Slim Jim Pickens posted:

A Canadian military historian was also the guy to bust down SLA Marshall's stupid theory about soldiers not shooting in combat by simply reading the study and seeing that Marshall was claiming to have interviewed a soldier every 5 seconds for a whole month of frontline interviews. This study btw is the foundation behind "killology" and other military/police brutalization training where they try to condition shooters to automatically open fire on human shapes.

What I'm getting from this is that the Canadian armed forces are very efficient at producing military history nerds who relentlessly dig deeper than you thought humanly possible

DancingShade
Jul 26, 2007

by Fluffdaddy
Well I firmly believe that history, that is accurate and true history (warts and all), is a power unto itself. You can learn from someone else's expensive mistakes and hopefully not repeat them.

Slim Jim Pickens
Jan 16, 2012
Germany was just the biggest industrial power of Europe by far. They had relied on stolen stockpiles up til about midway through Barbarossa, when they suddenly had the realization that they needed to massively expand their production lines. It takes a long time to spool up that stuff, but the Germans did have roughly 9 months to do it.

Elsewise a lot of the recovery came from Hungary and Italy, which hadn't participated fully in Barbarossa and had mobilized army-sized expeditionary forces over the year. Romania contributed a lot more to initial invasion, but had continued to expand its military as well. Between them they brought around 500,000 more soldiers to Army Group South. These were mostly infantry equipped with WWI-esque weaponry, which wasn't too different from Germany infantry, so they were used to man the frontlines. They were also devastated during Uranus/Saturn, which really undermined the Eastern Front for the Axis. It's what made Kursk the only option left in 1943, not enough infantry to do anything more than pinch the bulge.


Slavvy posted:

What I'm getting from this is that the Canadian armed forces are very efficient at producing military history nerds who relentlessly dig deeper than you thought humanly possible

One of positive ways of coping with living in the shadow of the US is second-guessing their smug twits

Orange Devil
Oct 1, 2010

Wullie's reign cannae smother the flames o' equality!

stephenthinkpad posted:

Have you considered arty shells production, but with gig economic?

shellr


shetsy

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FallenGod
May 23, 2002

Unite, Afro Warriors!

Truga posted:

also, fate is the best arthurian media, i will not be elaborating further

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