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What is the most powerful flying bug? This poll is closed. |
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| 🦋 |
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15 | 3.71% |
| 🦇 |
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115 | 28.47% |
| 🪰 |
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12 | 2.97% |
| 🐦 |
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67 | 16.58% |
| dragonfly |
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94 | 23.27% |
| 🦟 |
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14 | 3.47% |
| 🐝 |
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87 | 21.53% |
| Total: | 404 votes | ||
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bedpan posted:yeah and the west was hooting and hollering in approval The US was denying political refugees from disembarking, so they didn't give a poo poo about the Jews, Romani, Soviets, etc. getting whacked.
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Jul 19, 2023 23:04
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Deadly Ham Sandwich posted:Even if Russia is recruiting hundreds of thousands of soldiers, how long will it be until they are deployed to Ukraine? Russia isn't doing human wave tactics with conscripts with a week of training. They aren't in a rush. It takes months to years to train a recruit. No idea how long will it take to prepare for a big assault, especially if they don't want another poo poo show like at the start of the war. It will probably take months, I don’t know about years, but their industry has been engaged for a while now and has been gaining stream.
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Jul 19, 2023 23:05
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V. Illych L. posted:hitler was well recognised as bad news at the time, and popular front doctrine had been a thing for years Yeah, but that's not the same thing as "we must risk it all to stop this man."
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Jul 19, 2023 23:08
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the bourgeois attitude at the time, as far as i can tell, was that hitler's germany was a serious threat and one for which they had no good answer (another great war was not popular, especially in france), but not necessarily worse than the soviet union. the soviets, after all, were out to completely overthrow their (the bourgeoisie's) world order and very possibly kill them all. hitler, while a thug and a killer, and even worse, german, in principle seemed much more amenable to some kind of arrangement. after munich, though, the bourgeois nations seem to have realised that they couldn't give him any more but still hoped that something short of total war with millions of casualties (i.e. the phony war) would bring him to heel. on the soviet side, they abandoned the popular front approach in the face of what they saw as bourgeois unreliability and decided to go for a socialist exceptionalist approach - let the fascists and the liberals exhaust each other, leaving the lighthouse of socialism intact. poland was an old enemy anyway; gently caress them. the molotov-ribbentrop pact was a deeply cynical piece of work, defensible only to the extent that the situation really did warrant extreme cynicism. then france fell incredibly quickly, and stalin was somehow blindsided by the german invasion - and the rest, as they say, is history.
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Jul 19, 2023 23:11
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Neurolimal posted:Yeah, I'm sympathetic to the necessity of delaying the war so that the USSR could get on a war footing, but "nobody knew how evil Hitler was!" is revisionism, usually to absolve collaborators. Hitler was very vocal about the untermenschen, and what he intended for them. If you want to argue Hitler was showing his hands, you have to provide something he said or did around or before 1939. By late 1941 Hitler laid all his cards on the table, but he was holding the cards up his sleeves in 1939. IMO a person behaves very differently before or after he gains power. You can't always look at what one says before winning the election to guess his policies. I can point to Trump being one of the examples.
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Jul 19, 2023 23:11
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stephenthinkpad posted:If you want to argue Hitler was showing his hands, you have to provide something he said or did around or before 1939. By late 1941 Hitler laid all his cards on the table, but he was holding the cards up his sleeves in 1939. uh, no european fascists were *very* clear about their intentions as early as the early 1920s, german ones were no exception
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Jul 19, 2023 23:18
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The Nuremberg laws were in 1935, it wasn’t a secret.
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Jul 19, 2023 23:24
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My struggle was published in 1925
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Jul 19, 2023 23:27
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i mean, poo poo, hitler wrote about the glorious lebensraum in his stupid 1925 book the only way to achieve that poo poo was by exterminating the entire european slavic population lmao but yeah, sure, it wasn't until 39 people noticed he's a genocidal maniac. can't be that the anglo fascists who wrote history at the time got embarrassed about it afterwards e;fb
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Jul 19, 2023 23:28
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And so we National Socialists consciously draw a line beneath the foreign policy tendency of our pre-War period. We take up where we broke off six hundred years ago. We stop the endless German movement to the south and west, and turn our gaze toward the land in the east. At long last we break off the colonial and commercial policy of the pre-War period and shift to the soil policy of the future. If we speak of soil in Europe today, we can primarily have in mind only Russia and her vassal border states. 1925 this make him popular in nato tho
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Jul 19, 2023 23:30
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Liberal states will avoid mobilization like the plague until they have no choice, conscription and total war is very messy, requires a lot of state control, and most importantly higher taxes. At least one reason the Russians came in weak was it was going to have the least impact on the social order, including not touching annual draftees. Then the Russian elite figured out the West wasn’t joking. Admittedly, Mein Kampf was a book, and it really wasn’t until Hitler started more radical measure that the West stated to take measure. They also sleepwalked through the Spanish Civil War and the Aunchluss.
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Jul 19, 2023 23:32
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V. Illych L. posted:the bourgeois attitude at the time, as far as i can tell, was that hitler's germany was a serious threat and one for which they had no good answer (another great war was not popular, especially in france), but not necessarily worse than the soviet union. the soviets, after all, were out to completely overthrow their (the bourgeoisie's) world order and very possibly kill them all. hitler, while a thug and a killer, and even worse, german, in principle seemed much more amenable to some kind of arrangement. after munich, though, the bourgeois nations seem to have realised that they couldn't give him any more but still hoped that something short of total war with millions of casualties (i.e. the phony war) would bring him to heel. yep
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Jul 19, 2023 23:33
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Ardennes posted:In internal Soviet documents, they were very aware about what Fascism was about and Germany’s intentions btw, they didn’t expect the timing. To be fair, leaving the UK unconquered and instead wasting a poo poo ton of planes and unrecoverable pilots pointlessly bombing it was an incredibly stupid strategic move. There was no reason to believe Hitler wasn't going to invade the UK first and probably take several months to a year or more to subdue the island in order to secure Europe. Launching Barbarossa with an open sore like that was insane. Imagine if literally anyone had been competent or brave enough to launch a cross channel invasion before the Soviets had already won the war.
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Jul 19, 2023 23:38
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like, soviet officers and volunteers had been fighting germans in spain for years. the bourgeois nations went with "non-intervention", which in practice only hindered soviet aid and the republic's ability to trade and raise funds since the italians and germans were openly on the side of the coup and close enough to make that felt. the soviets were under no illusions about how bad hitler was (they probably didn't see the murder factories coming but mass killings were obviously in the air), but they decided that they were on their own and that they could buy time and a stronger position by making a deal. that can only be justified if one sees the soviet position as 1) trying to safeguard socialism which is a greater good, 2) reasonably assessing the westerners as completely unreliable, and/or 3) an attempt to improve the odds on their final showdown against fascism which would otherwise risk extermination of their own people
V. Illych L. has issued a correction as of 23:41 on Jul 19, 2023 |
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Jul 19, 2023 23:38
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V. Illych L. posted:like, soviet officers and volunteers had been fighting germans in spain for years. the bourgeois nations went with "non-intervention", which in practice only hindered soviet aid and the republic's ability to trade and raise funds since the italians and germans were openly on the side of the coup and close enough to make that felt. the soviets were under no illusions about how bad hitler was (they probably didn't see the murder factories coming but mass killings were obviously in the air), but they decided that they were on their own and that they could buy time and a stronger position by making a deal. that can only be justified if one sees the soviet position as 1) trying to safeguard socialism which is a greater good, 2) reasonably assessing the westerners as completely unreliable, and/or 3) an attempt to improve the odds on their final showdown against fascism It cannot be emphasized enough how 2 wasnt just a 'reasonable' position but the absolute iron clad reality proven over and over that Europeans were useless cowards at best and more likely traitorous beasts like Poland
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Jul 19, 2023 23:41
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Truga posted:uh, no There's still a very big difference between this and the view of Hitler post-war (and thus now as well). It's one thing to think "this person is a fascist who wants to do very bad things" (something true of many leaders) and another entirely to think "this person will do systematic mass murder on an unprecedented level, killing tens of millions of people." The lack of a precedent for the magnitude is very important, since you're talking about going to war with a powerful industrialized nation (and in the USSR's case, in a context where other very powerful enemy nations also exist).
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Jul 19, 2023 23:41
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Churchill posted:I cannot forecast to you the action of Russia. It is a riddle, wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma; but perhaps there is a key. That key is Russian national interest. Churchill was the first UK prime minister to figure out that the Soviet Union (which he incorrectly refers to as Russia) might be behaving in its own national interest. It's a shame he only figured that out after the invasion of Poland.
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Jul 19, 2023 23:51
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euphronius posted:And so we National Socialists consciously draw a line beneath the foreign policy tendency of our pre-War period. We take up where we broke off six hundred years ago. We stop the endless German movement to the south and west, and turn our gaze toward the land in the east. At long last we break off the colonial and commercial policy of the pre-War period and shift to the soil policy of the future. If we speak of soil in Europe today, we can primarily have in mind only Russia and her vassal border states. NATO secretary general jans hitlerberg
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Jul 19, 2023 23:53
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euphronius posted:And so we National Socialists consciously draw a line beneath the foreign policy tendency of our pre-War period. We take up where we broke off six hundred years ago. We stop the endless German movement to the south and west, and turn our gaze toward the land in the east. At long last we break off the colonial and commercial policy of the pre-War period and shift to the soil policy of the future. If we speak of soil in Europe today, we can primarily have in mind only Russia and her vassal border states. Germany went woke. Hitler was anti colonialist in the global south.
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Jul 19, 2023 23:55
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Tony Tone posted:Nazism in Ukraine is massively overblown, comedyblissoption posted:more polls for the poll god
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Jul 19, 2023 23:56
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I thought a lot of American industrialists were actually really big fans of Hitler att. Ford was handing out copies of the Protocols and Rockefeller got in trouble for throwing a party to celebrate the German victory over France.
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Jul 19, 2023 23:57
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Horseshoe theory posted:The US was denying political refugees from disembarking, so they didn't give a poo poo about the Jews, Romani, Soviets, etc. getting whacked. “none is too many” — some Canadian dude
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Jul 20, 2023 00:01
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Cpt_Obvious posted:I thought a lot of American industrialists were actually really big fans of Hitler att. Ford was handing out copies of the Protocols and Rockefeller got in trouble for throwing a party to celebrate the German victory over France. There was a literal American Nazi organization
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Jul 20, 2023 00:02
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TANO
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Jul 20, 2023 00:04
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comedyblissoption posted:these are allegedly polls of the non-annexed parts of ukraine The "Ukrainians abroad" only includes Ukrainians in the EU or UK, it doesn't include Ukrainian nationals in Russia (or Canada).
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Jul 20, 2023 00:06
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Slavvy posted:There was a literal American Nazi organization There was also a Business Plot around the time of Hitler being appointed Chancellor by von Hindenburg in the US by a bunch of business guys that were overt fascists to make Smedley Butler their puppet dictator.
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Jul 20, 2023 00:06
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Majorian posted:I'd like to speak to Communism's manager about this poor service, please! President Xi is not taking calls right now
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Jul 20, 2023 00:07
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StashAugustine posted:I'd also note that it's entirely possible to argue molotov ribbentrop wasn't the result of a pact between equally evil authorians but was still a really bad move
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Jul 20, 2023 00:17
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The mistake was not signing the peace pack, the mistake was not digging deep trenches after signing the pack.
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Jul 20, 2023 00:19
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Jul 20, 2023 00:20
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I was at a larger book store in the US (they exist) and I was bowled over about the size of the Russia/Soviet section, about 1/3 of them were about Putin and in red/black along with the Soviet books (which were most of the remainder). They dwarfed the Nazi section (which is also all red and black). That shelf has a bit of a theme going on.
Ardennes has issued a correction as of 00:30 on Jul 20, 2023 |
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Jul 20, 2023 00:26
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Horseshoe theory posted:There was also a Business Plot around the time of Hitler being appointed Chancellor by von Hindenburg in the US by a bunch of business guys that were overt fascists to make Smedley Butler their puppet dictator. Did the business plot fail though? Like Smedley refused to go along with it, so the immediate plot failed... but like all the participants stuck around and many of them and their scions end up in various places, and the US ultimately takes up the mantle of reaction not really all that long later and begins to decimate it's internal left via super predators like Hoover, the Dulles bros, and Bush the elder (whose father was in the business plot).
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Jul 20, 2023 00:29
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Enjoy posted:the soviet invasion lasted for 3 weeks and the red army suffered thousands of casualties against the "collapsed" polish army lmfao they teach that poland would have mano el mano’d either one no problem but got double teamed in public school dont they
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Jul 20, 2023 00:31
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I used to be a doomer and degrowther. That was how we were trained during my MS at Michigan and my PhD at UCLA. But once I started to learn about anime villain speeches, which virtually none of my colleagues had any understanding of at all, my view of the future changed completely.
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Jul 20, 2023 00:33
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pretty sure 'thousands' of casualties in ww 2 is a tuesday
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Jul 20, 2023 00:33
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lol at all the fail rear end national myths we’ve got to learn about as a result of this conflict
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Jul 20, 2023 00:42
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Homeless Friend posted:lmfao they teach that poland would have mano el mano’d either one no problem but got double teamed in public school dont they My HS history class teacher was cool so we basically spent that part collectively laughing at the Poles sending cavalry out against tanks.
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Jul 20, 2023 00:44
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Majorian posted:My HS history class teacher was cool so we basically spent that part collectively laughing at the Poles sending cavalry out against tanks. your history teacher was a dumbass who taught you wrong, then
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Jul 20, 2023 00:46
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John Charity Spring posted:your history teacher was a dumbass who taught you wrong, then lol no he wasn't, that poo poo was funny.
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Jul 20, 2023 00:47
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Majorian posted:lol no he wasn't, that poo poo was funny. yeah the nazi propaganda about stupid poles that didn't actually happen was very funny
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Jul 20, 2023 00:48
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