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Dr. Cool Aids posted:hello my feedback is that giving out sixers earlier was the right call for making GBS threads up the thread but it was obvious as hell that karma only did it to the people perceived to be on the opposite side to him. to seths credit you can see he went in afterwards and probed all the gbs idiots on the other side of the debate who were also being inflammatory. this. as well as the inconsistent application of 'don't make posts that aren't feedback about gbs' and 'no sniping at others' as a justification.
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Jul 20, 2023 02:54
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ArchRanger posted:I slept on this post because I really don't like giving out personal information online but woke up and am still feeling the same so: i want to raise some points, from one "queer" person to another. im not here to score some dumb meaningless points or anything. 1) you can be upset or not upset at anything you want. no one is going to or even can take that from you. but at the same time, you have to recognize that those internal feelings are exactly that, internal. you can ask people to be mindful of them, and most probably will. but there is a limit to what you can ask of others. if someone is unable or unwilling to meet you at a level you find acceptable, thats something for you to grapple with. as a similar example, if someone on this forum had an extreme phobia of dogs, how much right do they have to ask that people with dog avatars have their avatars blanked? that people cant talk about dogs outside pet island? i would say very little. while the line is probably not going to end up at exactly that place for words that have at least history of being used hatefully, there is a point where it is still overstepping. 2) as a great illustration, queer is ALSO a slur. its a slur with as much hatred and history behind it as ones you take exception with. i know, because i have friends who feel that way. who are fine with other slurs being used against them like dyke, but not queer. if someone took offense to what you said in this thread on that basis, how would you respond? is the expectation ultimate deference to anyone who has any problem ever? or is it different when the words are slightly different? or the context is different? i of course am not going to call you a word you dont like, but i used the word fag in a post recently commenting on a true thing about the queer community. is speaking the truth in a non-hateful way out of line? 3) i am absolutely okay with any queer person speaking out about this. i would be a bad queer myself if i didnt. but the riposte to "you cant say only straight people care about this" is i CAN say that most of the people who have ipushed into this convo are. and between you and me, i care way more about the opinions of people like you and me than any number of straight people. they are immaterial. as a great example, FilthyImp posted:Thank you to Counted and ArchRanger for your posts. unless this poster is a transgender chinese woman, they used those groups as fodder in a petty grievance to annoy an adtrw mod. and they did this in a way that was extremely hurtful to me and my friends. and they admitted as such in a previous iteration of this thread. do you understand why i would be upset that this person even gets to weigh in? that i think maybe their crusade against the word aids is, in the absolute most generous interpretation, not helpful? that queer people like us cant even actually have the millionth iteration of this convo that different groups of queer people have had for probably forever because all the straight people who dont have skin in the game shut it down? its really frustrating! and im not even someone whos gonna use the awesome power of saying a bad word constantly if it is given to me! i just want this to be an actual convo with actual understanding between people and actual nuance. and we cant even have that because nuance is poison to huge swaths of users and staff on this website. i think and hope you could understand why thats insanely frustrating to be on the receiving end of.
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Jul 20, 2023 03:00
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Fluffdaddy posted:I think context matters entirely. I think people mocking other people should be punished and probated heavily. I don't think the words themselves are the problem here I think the intent is. So while I get that word filter moderation is stupid for a myriad of reasons, I disagree that judging solely on intent really helps because people will bend over backwards to come up with reasons why what they said isn't lovely to say. A while back during whatever round of slur chat I, a spastic, pointed out that that the word spastic was largely used in a derogatory fashion towards many groups of people across both america and europe. Multiple goons immediately told me, the person who had direct and personal experience with this, that actually no; spastic wasn't offensive to say to people in america so it was okay to call people spastic. It didn't matter that like, during the 90's and 2000's even there were a bunch of popular shows and comedians directly correlating the term spastic with the disabled and all. The community consensus was that this word was okay to say and use. And it's happened with a few other words too; the people affected are just talked over. So, like, how do we square this one? And what happens when another person says that actually they're okay with being called a spastic? Do we cancel each other out? Do they get to hand out spastic passes to other posters? Or do we just have to hope people posting aren't crossing their fingers and being genuine when they say "actually it just means someone high energy and annoying" despite the everything suggesting the contrary?
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Jul 20, 2023 03:34
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Kagaya Homoraisan posted:i want to raise some points, from one "queer" person to another. im not here to score some dumb meaningless points or anything. For what it's worth I believe most people in this thread are being genuine about how they feel, even those that I do think are here because they really hate GBS rather than because they care about these issues in particular. 1. I mostly just agree with you here, this entire debate is about where the line falls exactly on what language is appropriate where. Like how I ended my post, were I someone who had that extreme phobia of dogs, I wouldn't stick around a place that posts a ton of them. Similarly, I like the way it's handled on most of the forums now, if it's changed and that sort of posting becomes rampant I'm probably just gonna go somewhere else. Like, I get some people like the FYAD-style posting, but I don't so I stay out of FYAD. Not everywhere needs to have the same rules. I was gonna separate 2. and 3. but they're mostly the same answer so 2/3. It also works similarly to Rust talking about how he feels about AIDS and Counted talking about different lived experiences. I don't think AIDS is a slur, just sorta gross to joke about. Queer was, from my perspective at least, reclaimed before I was even born, while I still hear awful poo poo said about "fags" by shithead straight people regularly. Again, the big thing is that it's a public forum and I'd want the rules to be in a place where people are less likely to get a chance to skate under the radar saying awful poo poo. No matter how much my friends and I love messaging "im gay" to each other, that's a fundamentally different dynamic to me calling them a big ol' queerbo while we're out getting food or something. If we're out grabbing a burger or something and I hear someone call a person they're sitting with a fag as a joke, my first assumption is that they're likely homophobic assholes rather than gay people outside of other evidence. I guess that's basically the thing, I'd rather the line be drawn in a place where unless you're doing something at the same time to make the context obvious, it's not okay. Not the end of the world, rules should be a guideline rather than hard and fast commandments. And again another person has said what feels like I'm trying to say but less awkwardly. I agree with Nuebot where I've seen so many people gleefully doing their best to bend the rules (I mean mostly in places that aren't SA, it's part of why I like the rules as they are) so that they can use whatever offensive language they feel like at the time. Like an example that comes up a lot is one past iteration of D&D saying bigotry was okay so long as you could justify it in a debate. For me personally at least I'd rather a mod hit someone for using a slur or bigoted language and then apologize later if it turns out that it was a bad call than let stuff slip past. Getting probed isn't the end of the world.
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Jul 20, 2023 03:42
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ArchRanger posted:I'd rather a mod hit someone for using a slur or bigoted language and then apologize later if it turns out that it was a bad call than let stuff slip past. Getting probed isn't the end of the world. I'm staying out of slurchat because I am a person that has zero place in it but one of the other broad points of contention here is that there seems to be a some sort of geas that prevents certain mods from doing the bolded part when it really would just be the simple fix, and that's bad
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Jul 20, 2023 03:48
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Kagaya Homoraisan posted:i want to raise some points, from one "queer" person to another. im not here to score some dumb meaningless points or anything. I'm also queer and transgender and wanted to say you raised some good points(I don't remember ever talking to you so I'm hoping that adrtw thing wasn't about me?), I also relate to a lot of what you said about inner control - but man, I don't know where you're from but growing up in the South for me meant there was this risk where I failed to recognize that the problem sometimes wasn't that my inner control needed to be better, that it's okay to seek spaces with better dynamics for me too, to take up space and ask for different from the people around me so I'm not always needing to manage my feelings, that I need to get that space sometimes if they refuse because I was in a place that doesn't respect me or is apathetic to my identity in an unknowingly harmful way so it's time to recognize that and leave Like there was a lot of homophobia in high school even before I came out more as trans, a lot, and it got worse before it got better after that and I had the best grip on my own mental and emotional state when I recognized what I was going through that wasn't *just* due to my inner feelings or being too easily offended and then, when it finally loving dawn on me that the hateful passive aggressive poo poo I experienced where I live would never leave me space to get any better at that sort of thing than I already was, I moved and holy hell it did SO MUCH good for me and yes: offensive jokes tend to get less of a rise out of me now, even if I don't make them very much or like them lol But what I'm thinking and where my thought process driving my feedback is at so far is that this kind of personal growth thing I think is a lot to ask from other people, not just queer people but people who know what it's like to feel unwelcome in a space with people passive aggressively or just plain aggressively using these dumbass words and offensive jokes to get us to leave, on a broader online space as we're all on different timelines processing all the wider bullshit we deal with by just being ourselves, or just any people who faced their own kind of discrimination and/or had unique experiences informing how they respond to a given word or phrase, as I said I don't have the answers but rules perpetuating situations where there's two people who should be allies or at least friendly walking away from a heated exchange going "was I the problem" when neither person was the problem, the problem being the wider context leaving them with wildly different responses to all the bs they went through, just doesn't make sense to me to keep as the status quo - from my own experiences which are flawed but still all I have, this doesn't work and causes rifts when you're trying to help broader groups of diverse people get along and connect with each other Like, as an example I don't care about other gays using gay slurs with close friends or towards me but if they used them around just any gay person or community without reading the room first or knowing them I'd prepare for a possible shitstorm, it sucks that the emotional labor we're talking about here is not all our doing but some hosed up social prejudices older than any of us, but it's not something I can see myself blaming another person in the same umbrella at least being ready to jump at the first sign of a slur or offensive joke because it was covert by the people who often meant what they were saying too, and sometimes learning that happens in ways that are really hard to let go of or apply in some kind of enlightened way, so how can I judge or police them? I'd let any other gay friend of mine be mad about being called something that made them feel that way before even if it was another gay person, because that feeling IS how these experiences should make us feel because it's hosed they were used on us at all Sorry if this isn't as structured or easy to read as my other posts but I wanted to respond quicker and decided to type this on it instead of my computer since I'm out and about, my older millennial rear end somehow missed the memo on how to type quickly on a phone keyboard Counted fucked around with this message at 03:56 on Jul 20, 2023 |
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Jul 20, 2023 03:51
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lol the ADTRW thing was definitely not about you, no worries there
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Jul 20, 2023 03:53
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Psycho Landlord posted:I'm staying out of slurchat because I am a person that has zero place in it but one of the other broad points of contention here is that there seems to be a some sort of geas that prevents certain mods from doing the bolded part when it really would just be the simple fix, and that's bad Yeah like, my first post in this thread was about how I think the current GBS mods are doing a decent job and I'm happy with how things are overall, but that a mistake was made and that it shouldn't be a huge deal to say as much. Tarquinn has been a good mod, and not saying something to the effect of "Yeah I hosed up, sorry" over something comparatively minor is more of an issue than the bad call was. I'm glad they apologized in PMs though, and I understand not wanting to post around a ton of people who hate you, these threads get insanely aggro for no good reason.
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Jul 20, 2023 03:57
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Counted posted:I'm also queer and transgender and wanted to say you raised some good points(I don't remember ever talking to you so I'm hoping that adrtw thing wasn't about me?), I also relate to a lot of what you said about inner control - but man, I don't know where you're from but growing up in the South for me meant there was this risk where I failed to recognize that the problem sometimes wasn't that my inner control needed to be better, that it's okay to seek spaces with better dynamics for me too, to take up space and ask for different from the people around me so I'm not always needing to manage my feelings, that I need to get that space sometimes if they refuse because I was in a place that doesn't respect me or is apathetic to my identity in an unknowingly harmful way so it's time to recognize that and leave no i understand, and despite what it may seem to people who think im the big ol slur lover cuz im on the pyf "side" of this "forum war", i dont actually have an answer off the top of my head. it would be presumptuous of me to say as such, cuz i dont speak for my entire community. but i want whatever ruleset we end up being at, even (begrudgingly) the current one, to be the result of a nuanced convo that takes place between the actual people it affects. and the site staff taking charge and working off that basis. i dont really give a poo poo about what someone who this doesnt affect has to say, because it doesnt affect them. and thats a big part of the issue of this in my mind. to a lot of gbs, this is academic. this is how we got to the point where multiple people on this website recently have accused queer people of faking it for disagreeing with them. thats insane. that should never have happened to begin with. and it certainly should never happen again. and this convo is related to that because those people were accusing those people of being fake queers, in defense of other, hypothetical queer people. so clearly this convo should be hashed out and at least some compromise reached because it is bonkers that i got called a fake gay in here because i have a different opinion about the word aids. thats an incredible breach. and its really indicative of an attitude on this website that rankles me because people feel fine to say things like that if it doesnt have the bad word. so lets all try and fix that. and if we do that and the bad words stay gone, ill live. and if we do it and the bad words can come back in some form, i hope thats not too disagreeable with you. but either way, we gotta do something! and to answer your question about where im from, arizona. so i understand that part completely too.
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Jul 20, 2023 04:18
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Kagaya Homoraisan posted:and this convo is related to that because those people were accusing those people of being fake queers, in defense of other, hypothetical queer people. who are "those people"? are you referring to this disaster of a post? https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=4027830&userid=0&perpage=40&highlight=browning&pagenumber=61#post533084814 if you are, it wasn't multiple people, it was one person who was immediately dogpiled by posters on every side of the slur issue and the poster was banned. it was bad but i don't think the problem extends beyond that one incident unless you mean the same type of fake gay accusation actually happened elsewhere recently too (which i'm not aware of), because if so  e: vvv ok, not a cspammer and didn't know that. i guess it is then.
Bad Purchase fucked around with this message at 04:50 on Jul 20, 2023 |
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Jul 20, 2023 04:43
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Bad Purchase posted:who are "those people"? are you referring to this disaster of a post? multiple times recently in cspam, about an unrelated matter. multiple times in various different flavors over the past few years. things of this nature and the more general idea that its okay on this website to say truly horrid awful things about people if you dont use a naughty word is a really pervasive idea and i am always going to take a stand against it. which is why im having this convo and why ive been having it repeatedly over the past few years. maybe todays the time something improves, id really like for that to be the case.
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Jul 20, 2023 04:48
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Why did calling things AIDS start becoming a thing again? I noticed it around here recently and thought it was weird because I thought SA outgrew that kind of thing years ago.
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Jul 20, 2023 05:13
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well you were wrong. calling a movie aids got arf a moderator quad-kill a year or so ago
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Jul 20, 2023 05:15
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Kagaya Homoraisan posted:Genuine post I'm going to respond later to the rest, but that's hosed and screw anyone trying to erase your identity because far too many people have tried that already with most of us for any the rest to put up with it happening to them I don't care what the disagreement was about also, straight cis folks shouldn't even try to do this to call out someone they perceive to be suspicious imo because genderfluid people exist, nonbinary people are a thing, people come closer to understanding who they are at all kinds of points in life and change their pronouns, poo poo changes and how we express our gender, identity or orientation can sometimes move along that spectrum - expecting us to meet their standard of gayness by somehow being ~gay enough~ for them to perceive it is as genuine is another way they don't get it with blind privilege and they need to spot this yesterday. It also pisses me off as I've definitely been told I'm not gay or trans in the "right" way and remember how that felt, I'm preaching to the choir but I do feel solidarity with you on this not being okay and personally I think it should be steeply punished on the first attempt by mods if they're reading this. Like, permaban steep. But this also kind of links to what I mean when I say this isn't just about someone's individual trauma but it's about group dynamics in response to Fluffdaddy, what can be painful to folks who have gone through things like we have can vary and I've seen it so many times, when you have a group of people with varying bullshit things ignorant yahoos have tried with them because of who they were in ways they had little say over, what sets them off is different and just indirectly telling the ones who have different things that set them off to stop being so sensitive runs the risk of destroying any chance we have at finding neutral ground and getting to know each other genuinely first a bit as posters, people hanging out or the like or even activists, I've seen groups of people who otherwise would get along famously fail to see how this rift is another malicious way the previous actions of hateful people and prejudice that's spread its roots in various communities in a wide range of sadistic ways have created wedges between us that we've had to work around to build our own communities instead after finally finding a place away from their hellholes, like so many small towns in the states in particular I've dealt with and heard about from others So yeah, no answers but I appreciate you talking to me, genuinely, I don't see anything you said as poorly thought out and can tell you're being just authentic about it, no perception of a posting crew here from me but I think I've said enough of what I wanted to say here and will leave it to the mods and others to consider, and if it hasn't changed any minds I get that but all I ask if we go in the other direction is to keep what I said in the back of your minds if these problems do become more frequent, because I don't think just taking the safeties off will help in the sense that it'll just drive out the shitheads, smoke them out of their holes and leave the rest of us to post when the dust settles, it's likely it will just lead to more people leaving with seemingly little rhyme and reason and no one will notice until they're already gone and the community is smaller for it with no rest from the same old kinda bigotry you get online anyways, I just don't think it'll even help with the intended purpose of giving them less ways to hide unfortunately if that's what's driving this difference Counted fucked around with this message at 05:37 on Jul 20, 2023 |
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Jul 20, 2023 05:21
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Bad Purchase posted:who are "those people"? are you referring to this disaster of a post? Helpful context to "immediately dogpiled by posters on every side of the slur issue": no it wasn't. It was pointed out as real homophobia by the "outsiders" of the thread and the people on the opposite side of the debate either chose to remain silent or defended it, including GBS mod CaptainSarcastic. The same mod started probating perceived infractions from the "outsiders" while ignoring that Cousin Todd post, until finally the controversy built to such a degree that a ban was finally imposed. In that act, the whole point myself and others were making in the feedback thread was proven: the people who declared themselves against homophobia in the form of ironic references to 'aids' were being performative in order to score points on posting enemies and outsiders. Meanwhile, actual homophobia was overlooked, because it came from one of their own.
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Jul 20, 2023 05:25
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Kagaya Homoraisan posted:unless this poster is a transgender chinese woman, they used those groups as fodder in a petty grievance to annoy an adtrw mod. and they did this in a way that was extremely hurtful to me and my friends. and they admitted as such in a previous iteration of this thread. do you understand why i would be upset that this person even gets to weigh in? I have never targeted transpeople as a joke. Where the gently caress does that come from? I'll cop to the very bad joke about placing non-japanese comics in a containment thread because the armaghetto is a DC Comics thing and I thought that the obvious idiocy of placing other forms of manga-like art was going to be taken as a really dumb joke but gently caress dude, if you thought I was actually targeting Chinese/Korean people I'm sorry and that's extremely lovely. // E: I think the conversation that happened on this page that Kagaya/ArchRanger/Counted engaged in is a model for what the discussion should look like. Something modeled more on Restorative Justice practices where the people speaking are the ones affected, and the ones that get to hash out an understanding. I don't think GBS/SAD are necessarily the right venue for that though. FilthyImp fucked around with this message at 05:59 on Jul 20, 2023 |
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Jul 20, 2023 05:43
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Autisanal Cheese posted:Helpful context to "immediately dogpiled by posters on every side of the slur issue": no it wasn't. It was pointed out as real homophobia by the "outsiders" of the thread and the people on the opposite side of the debate either chose to remain silent or defended it, including GBS mod CaptainSarcastic. The same mod started probating perceived infractions from the "outsiders" while ignoring that Cousin Todd post, until finally the controversy built to such a degree that a ban was finally imposed. In that act, the whole point myself and others were making in the feedback thread was proven: the people who declared themselves against homophobia in the form of ironic references to 'aids' were being performative in order to score points on posting enemies and outsiders. Meanwhile, actual homophobia was overlooked, because it came from one of their own. i'm not an "outsider", i post in gbs all the time, and i was the first one to call it an awful post. i saw many other people who are not what i would consider outsiders also calling it out. the mod who didn't take action on it immediately and explained why clearly didn't understand the post -- it wasn't that they saw it for what it was and were ok with it. the mod may have fumbled but the posters did not. e: also re: outsiders, i know i'm one of the ones who has said multiple time i see groups from sad and gbs as opposed camps itt, but i will try to put that aside from now on since i agree it's not productive. even if i think ignoring it is putting one's head in sand to a degree, it definitely does not help to amplify the us vs them thing by bringing it up, so i'm sorry for doing that in the past. Bad Purchase fucked around with this message at 05:54 on Jul 20, 2023 |
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Jul 20, 2023 05:50
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What actually happened there was someone said that it was okay for everyone to say things that other posters considered offensive towards group x because they are a member of group x, despite the other posters in group x (and external) explaining in great detail why it wasn't okay, and then insinuating that anyone who isn't paying money to the cause isn't sincere and therefore their feelings don't matter. And then I responded, in a terrible way, based on my own sincerely held belief that using membership in group x as a way to hand wave the concerns of others as if you had the authority to speak for everyone is actually a bad thing. Was I out of line? Absolutely. But my belief that you can't in good conscience hand out what are essentially n-word passes to everyone because you personally don't mind is legitimate, even if my words caused more harm than good. It's almost incomprehensible to me that the "don't use the word gay as a derogatory term" camp are somehow the villains in this narrative and the people who are defending the right to use objectively hurtful rhetoric are the heroes. In reality there are very few heroes or villains here, mostly just a lot of people with different opinions about an issue. Ultimately the question is, some people are telling us that they find it hurtful, is that sufficient enough reason to take any action? What's the threshold? I have no fuckin idea, but generally I'd say the mods do an okay job calling balls and strikes. (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST) (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jul 20, 2023 05:54
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todd, no, dear god no
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Jul 20, 2023 05:58
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FilthyImp posted:Whoah whoah whoah, what the gently caress? you said this to a trans person in your attempt to get some lovely dunks in on baal. i dont care what jokes you were making or trying to make because we all made it clear to you THE FIRST TIME what your issues in that thread were but you were more concerned with getting your fun in than the people who were telling you straight up to stop posting because your posts were awful. maybe now you can understand why i dont really care about what your personal opinion about the words aids is, given how you act when youre the one making the joke and were the ones who are supposed to accept it. and why i dont want this to be a convo that involves people who arent affected by it, because its really easy for people like that to change their minds.
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Jul 20, 2023 05:59
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Bad Purchase posted:who are "those people"? are you referring to this disaster of a post? there were a other people dismissing people calling that post out for being homophobic Schweinhund posted:
Facebook Aunt posted:
stux ate a probe for laughing at the post and mocking it being made Stux posted:oh hell yeah lol while one of the gbs mods was stoking the 'forums wars' rhetoric/bullshit CaptainSarcastic posted:Why people from other forums find prospective GBS rules to be an existential threat is beyond me. It's very odd. go figure people think the mods around here are bad at their jobs and think that maybe things should be changed in some way to make gbs less bad 
Mekchu fucked around with this message at 06:12 on Jul 20, 2023 |
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Jul 20, 2023 06:07
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none of those posts are agreeing with cousin todd that people were faking being gay, and stux getting a probe for trollishly egging it on is the universe's equilibrium state
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Jul 20, 2023 06:13
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Kagaya Homoraisan posted:you said this to a trans person in your attempt to get some lovely dunks in on baal. i dont care what jokes you were making or trying to make because we all made it clear to you THE FIRST TIME what your issues in that thread were but you were more concerned with getting your fun in than the people who were telling you straight up to stop posting because your posts were awful. With respect to the exchange, I really was not aware that the person I was replying to was trans. Maybe I missed it in the conversation, and I am guilty of just feeling like 99% of the time I'm communicating with abstract amorphous posters with no clear identity. When they said that someone in the thread previously had thought that boys could get pregnant, my smart-rear end remark was made not knowing their identity and not realizing that it would be patronizing. Given my previous comportment in the thread, yeah, I get it. And for some reason, jumping into the conversation at that point, the language about gender dynamics was affirming that yes, men/boys can "get pregnant" because gender and sex are distinct as I understand it. And I was taken aback by the response, because I didnt understand how what I said would be received, though now I understand why. I can't undo being a lovely poster, but I am sorry that I caused harm.
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Jul 20, 2023 06:20
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the stux post wasn't the problem there, hth
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Jul 20, 2023 06:21
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Bad Purchase posted:none of those posts are agreeing with cousin todd that people were faking being gay, and stux getting a probe for trollishly egging it on is the universe's equilibrium state no they weren't reiterating his claim, but 2 of them were very obviously saying its not a problem for cousin todd to make that accusation- schweinhundd and facebook aunt in particular in that case. and captain sarcastic is obviously trying to make it an us vs them thing about outsiders instead of engaging with the fact that cousin todd made an incredibly homophobic post. so they don't need to say they agree people are faking being gay, because they are still supporting homophobia by saying "hey that homophobic statement is not a problem" very hypocritical when the conversation it happened in was about whether saying things are gay or aids is homophobic Sudsygoat fucked around with this message at 06:28 on Jul 20, 2023 |
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Jul 20, 2023 06:25
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Bad Purchase posted:none of those posts are agreeing with cousin todd that people were faking being gay, and stux getting a probe for trollishly egging it on is the universe's equilibrium state That's what you took away from that exchange?
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Jul 20, 2023 06:34
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Bad Purchase posted:none of those posts are agreeing with cousin todd that people were faking being gay, and stux getting a probe for trollishly egging it on is the universe's equilibrium state bro come on
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Jul 20, 2023 06:40
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i reread those posts and the conversation leading up to it. i don't think the first one is supporting homophobia, it's a shitpost about hyperbole. the second one you may have a point. i can't tell if facebook aunt actually understood cousin todd's fake gay accusation but it does read like they're defending it in some fashion. i don't think stux's post was a problem, but he knew what he was doing. in any case, the IK who probed it has been de-IK'd. oops double edit: i was right the first time, it was a smugworth probe Bad Purchase fucked around with this message at 06:52 on Jul 20, 2023 |
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Jul 20, 2023 06:41
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it's not about if the ik is still an ik. the issue is the 'my friends can make certain posts but you're not allowed to' sort of stuff like the posts that defend a homophobic post, but you're not allowed to laugh at the person making the homophobic post sort of 'us vs them' culture the gbs mods have allowed to fester. you see that happening in captainsarcastics post, you saw it in seth's post trying to explain why he won't listen to feedback in SAD, etc.
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Jul 20, 2023 06:45
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Thread mascots
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Jul 20, 2023 06:51
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yeah we can do better with us vs them stuff
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Jul 20, 2023 06:51
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We could all do with a little commencement of the jigglin
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Jul 20, 2023 06:54
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Mekchu posted:it's not about if the ik is still an ik. I openly acknowledged the post could be read as homophobic and said I was not closing the report on it. And the post did indeed get probed. Claiming favoritism was in play is a stretch considering I did not recognize Cousin Todd or a lot of the other posters in the thread, and was trying to thread a needle between people who were very angrily and rapidly going back and forth. I wasn't defending the post in question. Also, the line about other forums finding prospective rules in GBS to be an existential threat was a reference to the blow-up that occurred when we introduced the rule against making pedophile accusations and jokes, including "mods knew." There was a shitstorm about that elsewhere, but not in GBS. It wasn't all that long ago, I don't think, but my sense of time can be fluid.
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Jul 20, 2023 06:56
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My feedback is that all PMs to and from mod/ik accounts should be made public. Unthinkable power should come with full transparency.
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Jul 20, 2023 06:59
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if an IK's power is "unthinkable" to you I'm enrolling you in a kindergarten to see if we can't jump start some of those neurons also, sometimes mods and IKs get PMs from users about sensitive stuff that they, for one reason or another, don't want to post in a thread there's no need for a moderation PMs feed or w/e
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Jul 20, 2023 07:05
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you said it could be read as homophobic, but also that people were taking a hyperbolic reading on it when they were calling it out as homophobic.CaptainSarcastic posted:Saying stuff louder and angrier doesn't make it any more true. People taking a hyperbolic read on that post is not helping anyone, and I would suggest you stop. and that people who were pivoting the discussion to condemn it were being disingenuous since they were also talking about how saying something is 'aids' isn't a slur. also that actually it was just a response to 'bad fith arguments.' CaptainSarcastic posted:Considering the genesis of the whole thing was people making a frenzied argument that using "gay" and "AIDS" is something that must absolutely be defended changes the equation somewhat. Pivoting to a strident condemnation of that post appears disingenuous considering the starting point. While the post in question is not one I would say is good, I read it more as a response to weird bad faith arguments being made. This whole thing began because some people are very upset that low-effort trolling might potentially be curtailed in GBS. Potentially. In GBS. wrt to 'other forums' no, you specifically said as much when the whole 'lol aids' stuff started CaptainSarcastic posted:Jesus Christ, I see the AIDS thing is like a loving batsignal for people who don't post in GBS to suddenly swarm into the Feedback thread. Namecalling and slapfight posts will not be considered feedback unless this is a different 'aids thing' that happened at the same time we've been talking about, you seem to think people who were agreeing with being able to call a thread that is bad 'aids' were actually 'outsiders'. which again, is you pushing/supporting the whole 'us vs them' forum war bullshit. Mekchu fucked around with this message at 07:29 on Jul 20, 2023 |
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Jul 20, 2023 07:26
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Mekchu posted:you said it could be read as homophobic, but also that people were taking a hyperbolic reading on it when they were calling it out as homophobic. Yes, I said those things, and I'm not sure what you want in response. That was what the conversation appeared to be doing at the time, and the thread suddenly exploded out of nowhere with a lot of people who had not been posting in GBS prior to said explosion. As far as I could tell that was what was going on, and I'm not sure if you want an apology for that or what I can do in answer to the complaint. In hindsight do I wish I had gone ahead and probed the objectionable post myself? Sure, but I also took pains to make sure I wasn't endorsing it. I was making a best effort to rein in a thread that had suddenly and out of nowhere become a firestorm, and I can't pretend that I did it perfectly.
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Jul 20, 2023 07:33
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if gbs wants to ban calling threads gay/aids i dont really care the reason this discussion went the way it did is because there's a ton of insanely homophobic/transphobic/etc stuff that just slips by while everyone is crowing about their superior morality over a guy who says 'failaids.' thats the core discussion here and why people were acting like only boring straight dudes cared.
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Jul 20, 2023 08:03
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Kagaya Homoraisan posted:2) as a great illustration, queer is ALSO a slur. its a slur with as much hatred and history behind it as ones you take exception with. i know, because i have friends who feel that way. who are fine with other slurs being used against them like dyke, but not queer. if someone took offense to what you said in this thread on that basis, how would you respond? also to add to this point if someone yelled human being tranny dyke @ me in real life i would lol but if they called me queer i would do every street fighter 4 ultra move simultaneously. so yeah i dont like being called Queer, included as queer, when discussions are called 'queer spaces,' etc. when a space is labelled 'queer' i distance myself from it. ive made a handful of things and bristled when people commenting on them call them 'queer' or include them as 'by queer creators.' it genuinely disgusts me and i do not want anything to do with it. not just in terms of its use as a slur, but how its been reclaimed and what its reclamation represents, to me. i dont expect the something awful staff to moderate based on this opinion and i can understand when people are just using it because they are personally comfortable with or prefer the term. Endorph fucked around with this message at 08:12 on Jul 20, 2023 |
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Jul 20, 2023 08:08
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I'm pretty sure I was the one who originally brought up not liking the term but it was because I thought it was gross because I kept seeing it used as a "substitute slur" as it were. But also if people are like, "whatever no one cares" then okay, I can continue to not like it but I'm not gonna picket the forums about it. For reference I have been been a bi twink since high school and later transitioned, so I am not a hypothetical gay or cis person looking for points or whatever the gently caress. I just personally don't like the term, I didn't think the discussion would go for two friggin threads goddamn.
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Jul 20, 2023 08:14
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