(Thread IKs:
weg, Toxic Mental)
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I hope Putin gets gaddafi'd
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Jul 20, 2023 02:29
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| # ? May 31, 2024 03:38 |
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I hope Putin gets Trotskied
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Jul 20, 2023 02:37
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Putin can get David Carradine'd for all I care
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Jul 20, 2023 02:41
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cr0y posted:I had a thought, has anything like this ever been attempted to coerce surrender of troops? Air-dropped leaflets are the usual method. Often they explain exactly how to surrender safely and make various promises of safety and comfort. Sometimes they get more specifically targeted, like this one from the Korean War offering a US$100,000 reward (a little over $1M in today's money) to the first North Korean pilot to defect and bring along their MiG-15.  The prize was claimed a few months later, although it was a total coincidence -- he'd never heard of the reward before he defected, so it was a happy surprise.
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Jul 20, 2023 02:54
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mcvey posted:I hope Putin gets gaddafi'd Private Cumshoe posted:I hope Putin gets Trotskied Winkle-Daddy posted:Putin can get David Carradine'd for all I care Goonity
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Jul 20, 2023 02:54
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Putin bawls his eyes out daily over Tak And The Power Of Juju no longer existing
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Jul 20, 2023 02:59
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EorayMel posted:Putin bawls his eyes out daily over Tak And The Power Of Juju no longer existing Hell, same.
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Jul 20, 2023 03:00
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mcvey posted:I hope Putin gets gaddafi'd Private Cumshoe posted:I hope Putin gets Trotskied Winkle-Daddy posted:Putin can get David Carradine'd for all I care I'd be fine with a nice, simple Ceaușescu-ing.
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Jul 20, 2023 03:06
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Я выгляжу так, будто знаю, что такое JPEG? Я просто хочу фотографию хот-дога
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Jul 20, 2023 03:22
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So, was Putin's plan to stay in the grain deal till they did something to piss him off? Does he actually expect to win this war? He's out gunned and more importantly out moneyed. He has no hope in hell.
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Jul 20, 2023 04:09
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Lammasu posted:So, was Putin's plan to stay in the grain deal till they did something to piss him off? Does he actually expect to win this war? He's out gunned and more importantly out moneyed. He has no hope in hell. He doesnt have any option except to try to win this war, so yeah
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Jul 20, 2023 04:21
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The_Franz posted:I'd be fine with a nice, simple Ceaușescu-ing. You want to turn him into a Llama??
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Jul 20, 2023 04:36
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Barudak posted:He doesnt have any option except to try to win this war, so yeah Putin could end the war tomorrow, go back to being king crap of poo poo hill and die in power at the age of 90 if he wanted to.
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Jul 20, 2023 04:42
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autonomously deployed hot dog and pizza service and surrender stations for the hungry mobiks. follow the column of light to a full stomach and a place to sleep instead of the middle of the forest. be careful of mines, but once you're there you're golden.
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Jul 20, 2023 04:43
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Cosmik Debris posted:Putin could end the war tomorrow, go back to being king crap of poo poo hill and die in power at the age of 90 if he wanted to. Except he won't, the only way to stop him now is for Puccia to lose, because he knows what's in store for him if he loses.
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Jul 20, 2023 04:46
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Lammasu posted:He's out gunned and more importantly out moneyed. He has no hope in hell.
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Jul 20, 2023 04:47
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the popes toes posted:Not sure "out gunned" is exactly or even inexactly correct. Ukraine has much less weight of iron in the field. A better ratio of quality stuff, but they are still out gunned by Russia. Recent news from the Zaporizhzhia front suggests that Ukrainians are steadily gaining artillery and counterbattery superiority there. At one stage it isn't the weight of iron that matters, it's how much iron is there on any specific part of the front at any given time
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Jul 20, 2023 04:49
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zone posted:Recent news from the Zaporizhzhia front suggests that Ukrainians are steadily gaining artillery and counterbattery superiority there. At one stage it isn't the weight of iron that matters, it's how much iron is there on any specific part of the front at any given time It will be interesting to see what Ukraine considers the tripwires for committing their newest, most modern reserves that have, for whatever reason, been held back.
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Jul 20, 2023 04:56
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the popes toes posted:It will be interesting to see what Ukraine considers the tripwires for committing their newest, most modern reserves that have, for whatever reason, been held back. Upping the supply of mine clearers might help? Haven't heard them clamoring for such, though, so maybe I'm way off 
Cugel the Clever fucked around with this message at 05:05 on Jul 20, 2023 |
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Jul 20, 2023 05:03
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Cugel the Clever posted:The modern equipment isn't an effective counter against minefields and pre-sighted artillery. They mitigate the harm a hell of a lot, but things are stuck right now whittling down the Russian artillery and trying to make paths for the offensive to flow. It's the right approach of there's no obvious breakthrough available. Mine clearers and engineering equipment needs to be supplied in much larger quantities than is currently being given. I seem to recall that it was mentioned Ukraine only got about 20% of what they would actually need to clear the extensive amount of mines and trenches they're facing down.
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Jul 20, 2023 05:05
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the popes toes posted:It will be interesting to see what Ukraine considers the tripwires for committing their newest, most modern reserves that have, for whatever reason, been held back. I think they're waiting for a breakthrough to exploit the gently caress out of, on the grounds that a sudden huge reversal will be more effective in breaking morale and political will than steady attrition.
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Jul 20, 2023 05:42
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Been reading about the mine fields and it seems grim. Russia has deployed a variety of mines and booby traps. When some get cleared they just deploy more farther back. The mines and cluster munitions are also going to be killing who knows how many future civilians.
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Jul 20, 2023 05:58
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Sophy Wackles posted:Been reading about the mine fields and it seems grim. Russia has deployed a variety of mines and booby traps. When some get cleared they just deploy more farther back. The mines and cluster munitions are also going to be killing who knows how many future civilians. It certainly is, but it also isn't new for them. Also, afaik Russian remote minelaying capabilities are behind Western ones - while they have the capability they don't have it for arbitrary artillery systems the way we do (and so the range from the launcher at which they can generate a new minefield is shorter). It's certainly difficult to generate a breakthrough, but should one be generated things heat up suddenly. In the meantime, it looks like the grinding attritional conflict that it is, which doesn't necessarily favor Russia anymore.
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Jul 20, 2023 06:08
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Nearly 18 people were injured, some badly, in the night attack on Mykolaiv. Port facilities, administrative buildings, and grain warehouses were damaged again in Odesa.
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Jul 20, 2023 06:10
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There's been significant Western promises of cleanup assistance, but it's going to take ages and there'll be red zones for the next century just like on the fields of the First World War. And the longer Russia is allowed to persist in its aggression, the worse it will get. The West should be ramping up the provision of hardware to break the stalemate, tightening the noose on the scum who aid Russia's sanction evasion, and building support and capacity for direct intervention—if Ukraine requests it. I scoffed at the talk of no fly zones at the outbreak of the war on the assumption that the Russian military was competent enough to make that disastrously costly. The last year had proven me wrong: call Putin's bluff, seize the skies, and rain hellfire down on every invader that's not heading for the border.
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Jul 20, 2023 06:13
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Cugel the Clever posted:There's been significant Western promises of cleanup assistance, but it's going to take ages and there'll be red zones for the next century just like on the fields of the First World War. And the longer Russia is allowed to persist in its aggression, the worse it will get. The West should be ramping up the provision of hardware to break the stalemate, tightening the noose on the scum who aid Russia's sanction evasion, and building support and capacity for direct intervention—if Ukraine requests it. If a no fly zone is enacted by NATO that is nuclear war shortly thereafter. I get why people might scoff at Russia given their performance the past 1.5 years but make no mistake, a direct military intervention by NATO would result in MAD rather soon after. At that point you are getting into the very basic, foundational level for NATO's existence as well as the primary reason for the current large stockpiles of strategic nuclear weapons owned by both NATO countries as well as Russia. A no fly zone would, by definition, entail NATO aircraft and AA shooting down Russian planes. Once you place NATO in direct, kinetic conflict with Russia, that's the start of a nuclear showdown and has been for the previous 74 years. Are you willing to bank on ALL of Russia's ICBMs, SLBMs, and dumbfire bombs delivered via strategic bombers to fail? Because if even just 1 explodes that's WW3. Russia has about 6,000 strategic nuclear warheads in total, about 1600 of which are in active service. The delivery mechanisms are 10 nuclear armed submarines, 60-70 nuclear capable bombers, 812 deployed warheads on land-based ballistic missiles, 200 warheads at heavy bomber bases, and 1500 retired-but-still-intact warheads in reserve. How lucky are you feeling? HonorableTB fucked around with this message at 06:37 on Jul 20, 2023 |
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Jul 20, 2023 06:30
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HonorableTB posted:If a no fly zone is enacted by NATO that is nuclear war shortly thereafter. I get why people might scoff at Russia given their performance the past 1.5 years but make no mistake, a direct military intervention by NATO would result in MAD rather soon after. At that point you are getting into the very basic, foundational level for NATO's existence as well as the primary reason for the current large stockpiles of strategic nuclear weapons owned by both NATO countries as well as Russia. A no fly zone would, by definition, entail NATO aircraft and AA shooting down Russian planes. Once you place NATO in direct, kinetic conflict with Russia, that's the start of a nuclear showdown and has been for the previous 74 years. Are you willing to bank on ALL of Russia's ICBMs, SLBMs, and dumbfire bombs delivered via strategic bombers to fail? Because if even just 1 explodes that's WW3. Hence the very careful proxy war bullshit. Until Putinism is eradicated, Russia will hold the world at gunpoint. Yes, eradicated. Cancel me.
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Jul 20, 2023 06:36
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anonumos posted:Hence the very careful proxy war bullshit. Until Putinism is eradicated, Russia will hold the world at gunpoint. Yes, eradicated. Cancel me. No canceling needed, you are right. Putinism is just authoritarian autocracy in the 21st century and until it is eliminated entirely, eastern europe specifically and Europe/the world in general, will not be safe. However, this is not a proxy war between the West and Russia. This is a war between Russia and Ukraine. Western support does not turn this into a proxy war automatically; approaching it as such is a huge blind spot for many westerners. Ukraine and Russia have centuries more enmity between each other than "the West" has against Russia. Russia has been abusing its neighbors centuries before "The West" existed. This is not a proxy war between the West and Russia. It is a direct war between Russia and one of its former imperial vassals, who naturally look to "The West" for support because "The West" is opposed to Russian imperialism. This war is a continuation of things that started almost 1000 years before "The West" and proxy wars as a modern concept existed, and this is where many western observers go wrong. Just as people think the invasion of Feb 2022 was "the war" and fail to notice or understand that the previous 8 years were ALSO "the war" and for Ukrainians/Russians, this is just another phase in the existing war that has been ongoing since 2014. Considering this a proxy war is very western-centric thinking and incorrect because the root of this is NOT in any kind of West vs East methodology. It's Russia attempting to reassert its historical imperial authority and getting its poo poo kicked in because its former vassal found stronger friends than Russia - BECAUSE of Russia's historical aggression. TLDR: it aint proxy wars that drove the majority of the Warsaw Pact countries directly into NATO's arms as soon as the immediate and direct threat of Soviet military intervention disappeared in 1991 HonorableTB fucked around with this message at 06:47 on Jul 20, 2023 |
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Jul 20, 2023 06:39
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HonorableTB posted:Once you place NATO in direct, kinetic conflict with Russia, that's the start of a nuclear showdown and has been for the previous 74 years But it's not going to happen without a determined and nigh impossible consensus-building campaign. Still, better to strive toward and establish the capability even if it's never actioned. Same goes for consensus for the defense of Taiwan. The only thing that gives pause to revanchist authoritarians eager to slaughter innocents in a quest for imperial glory is the capacity and will of the forces arrayed against them.
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Jul 20, 2023 06:46
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Cugel the Clever posted:That's certainly a risk and it'll probably be hard to overcome that fear. But the same argument has been made for various lower stages of the escalation ladder that we've already surpassed, with Russia impotently rattling the nuclear sabre at every step.If Ukraine wants direct assistance, narrowly limited to the scope of efforts needed to regain its sovereignty, that's just one more Russian bluff to call. The key thing that you are not considering here is that the various lower stages of escalation, as you call them, ignore one critical thing: it ain't Western forces doing the killing of Russians. It's Ukrainian forces using Western kit. That is a whole world away from literal NATO marked F-35s doing air strikes on MiGs and Russian ground forces. Everything until now has been Western supplied gear but Ukrainians pulling the trigger. That makes all the difference. If it's a Brit or German or American pulling the trigger on a HARM missile or Storm Shadow, that means direct NATO involvement. That is not the case for simply providing military aid but it being a Ukrainian pulling the trigger. Seems semantic in text but it makes a huge difference in diplomacy and foreign affairs. Russia rattles the nuclear saber a lot, yes. It should be ignored most of the time. However, as important as it is to know when to ignore it, it's as equally important to know when NOT to ignore it. If you put Americans in boots-on-ground conflict against Russia, that's a nuke war. Don't ask me to explain why and how it's different because I can't, I'm not one of the people that decides it. I just know that this IS the case and has been since the USSR first got nukes in 1949, when the first discussion of invading and pre-emptively nuking the Soviet Union took place by Truman and his advisors. E: this is also ignoring the base point that NATO is a defensive alliance, not an offensive one. For NATO to do a no-fly-zone it would have to either be attacked and institute it as a response, or declare that this is a Balkan operation and that it's offensive in nature, which would preclude an Article 5 response by NATO charter. Both are equally unlikely at this juncture. You may remember the Kosovo campaign, or the No Fly Zone instituted above Libya in 2012. NATO uses those in contexts where it can get away with it; Russia would swat a lot of those Rafaels, Mirages, Eurofighters, and the like out of the sky with Strelas, Buks, or S300/S400, which were created to defeat such NATO aircraft. NATO would still likely win (assuming a non-nuclear conflict) but most likely, everyone loses lol E2: I won't bring up or discuss Taiwan because that's outside my jurisdiction and expertise. I can only reliably and accurately speak to NATO doctrine and responses; Taiwan is governed by a much different dynamic that I'm far less familiar with and would just make an rear end out of myself in trying to discuss 
HonorableTB fucked around with this message at 06:58 on Jul 20, 2023 |
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Jul 20, 2023 06:50
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HonorableTB posted:If a no fly zone is enacted by NATO that is nuclear war shortly thereafter. Is this one of those one way rule things where the Soviets could shoot down U.S. planes and it's not nuclear war but if the reverse happens it is?
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Jul 20, 2023 06:59
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Bashez posted:Is this one of those one way rule things where the Soviets could shoot down U.S. planes and it's not nuclear war but if the reverse happens it is? Honestly, I don't think so. There's a few key differences between a hypothetical where a NATO plane gets shot down by Russian AA and, say, a Soviet gunner blowing an American B-2 out of the sky over Vietnam. In the first example, Ukraine's government would be the ones requesting the no-fly-zone and NATO agrees, putting them as direct combatants against Russia. With the Vietnam scenario, the Soviet AA gunners that shot down American bombers were "advisors", and it didn't count because the US was at war with VIETNAM, not the Soviet Union. Does it matter, in practical terms? Not really. Soviets died the same as Americans died, killed by the other. Does it matter in geopolitical terms? Oh you bet your rear end it does If Russian AA shoots down a NATO plane in Ukraine in 2023, either it gets swept under the rug entirely (like Vietnam) or uh, it doesn't. I don't think anyone can say for sure what would happen, but I can tell you for certain that the past 8 decades of foreign policy and foreign military policy by the United States have taken this into account and the responses for it are "nuke em" because the assumption is that the Soviets would think the same. Whether or not that's feasible is an exercise for the reader, but this IS how the thinking has gone in government for decades now. But there has not been any kind of direct conflict between Russian and American/western militaries in this manner since the Allied invasion of Russia in Archangel in 1918 tldr: countries will conveniently ignore such things as long as theyre able to, but some things simply cannot be ignored without massive loss of face or reputation on the global stage. if you remove the fig leaf of plausible deniability, in the process you also remove the possibility of de-escalation in many cases, especially when dealing with authoritarian dictatorships that work off of cult of personality. with those governments, loss of faces often means loss of life as their entire government is predicated on iron fisted strongman behavior and if you get pantsed on the global stage in front of an international audience (lol wagner), your soft power internally is immediately erased and you're headed for the dumpster as a leader HonorableTB fucked around with this message at 07:11 on Jul 20, 2023 |
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Jul 20, 2023 07:05
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Bashez posted:Is this one of those one way rule things where the Soviets could shoot down U.S. planes and it's not nuclear war but if the reverse happens it is? as far as I know this hasn't been tested IRL. Yes, Russian aircraft hot dog around US ones, especially unarmed ones, but only cause actual damage by literal collision which fucks both aircraft all the way up. For whatever reason, this is not regarded as a really hostile act as a shoot down with missiles or guns would (presumably) be. e: to HTB's point, post 1991.
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Jul 20, 2023 07:06
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Well either russia runs away or their planes get shot down and ground installations bombed to poo poo The whole point of MAD is that there is no limited nuclear war. There's no reason to launch noooks if you just get nuked in return. But it can't be a reason to give in to threats at every opportunity, otherwise poopin can just invade the Baltics next and, applying the same logic, we'd have to retreat immediately.
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Jul 20, 2023 07:43
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Cugel the Clever posted:There's been significant Western promises of cleanup assistance, but it's going to take ages and there'll be red zones for the next century just like on the fields of the First World War. And the longer Russia is allowed to persist in its aggression, the worse it will get. The West should be ramping up the provision of hardware to break the stalemate, tightening the noose on the scum who aid Russia's sanction evasion, and building support and capacity for direct intervention—if Ukraine requests it. I'm starting to lean in this direction too. The West should just stop this charade and commit more than equipment. I know it's a hard decision, but maybe start with planes and pilots and on-the-ground logistics. This war can be ended quicker and that's better for everyone. Any normal-ish relations with Russia for the foreseeable are gone already and Europe reasonably has to fear a Russian invasion any where and any time as long as any current regime is in power. So it's not like any of value will be lost. E: there are degrees of assistance. The west could use western pilots and planes with Ukrainian markings, for instance. Which is what the Soviets did in Korea. Oldsmobile fucked around with this message at 07:57 on Jul 20, 2023 |
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Jul 20, 2023 07:53
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HonorableTB posted:If a no fly zone is enacted by NATO that is nuclear war shortly thereafter. I get why people might scoff at Russia given their performance the past 1.5 years but make no mistake, a direct military intervention by NATO would result in MAD rather soon after. At that point you are getting into the very basic, foundational level for NATO's existence as well as the primary reason for the current large stockpiles of strategic nuclear weapons owned by both NATO countries as well as Russia. A no fly zone would, by definition, entail NATO aircraft and AA shooting down Russian planes. Once you place NATO in direct, kinetic conflict with Russia, that's the start of a nuclear showdown and has been for the previous 74 years. Are you willing to bank on ALL of Russia's ICBMs, SLBMs, and dumbfire bombs delivered via strategic bombers to fail? Because if even just 1 explodes that's WW3. Russia has about 6,000 strategic nuclear warheads in total, about 1600 of which are in active service. The delivery mechanisms are 10 nuclear armed submarines, 60-70 nuclear capable bombers, 812 deployed warheads on land-based ballistic missiles, 200 warheads at heavy bomber bases, and 1500 retired-but-still-intact warheads in reserve. How lucky are you feeling? Hi Mr. Putin, please cancel special military operation, it is bad.
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Jul 20, 2023 08:03
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well remember that putin's most likely scenario for going off the handle and nuking poo poo is if he feels the west has a goal to remove him, personally. western pilots in UA planes is a drat serious step in that direction. unfortunately something like chef boyar p's mutiny was and is the best way for peace to be achieved without a nuclear incident threatening the globe. putin needs to get operation valkyrie'd and whichever gangster takes his place needs to tell NATO "yeah that was the last guy and he's dead now".
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Jul 20, 2023 08:06
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I've believed for the last year or so that the west has been able to end this by just stomping russia to the curb at any time point of their choosing, but they do not, as it's more beneficial to long term strategic goals to let russia pulverize itself in a slow grind against ukraine and the minor road blocks that are being set up there, thereby taking a presumed major player out of the big league game for the duration and plopping them right back into mud hut territory for the foreseeable future.
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Jul 20, 2023 08:07
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i mean it's definitely beneficial to the long term strategic goal of having no nukes fly, for sure. feels like folks need to re-read what honorable said w.r.t. russia's nuclear stockpile. like yes, russia's a kleptocracy and corruption is everywhere, doing everything, all the time. also, nuclear armaments take a staggering amount of infrastructure and maintenance to remain combat-ready, and if any piece of that infrastructure is compromised, there's a huge chance that the weapon will not function. further, if a nuclear weapon does not function, there is no such thing as slapping in a spare part and calling it good; everything is so sensitive that any replacements like that have to be done with utmost care and everything needs to be tested thoroughly. but if even a tiny handful of those thousands of weapons function, hundreds of thousands will die. the casualties in this war have been absolutely appalling but those counts will double pretty fast if nukes start getting fired.
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Jul 20, 2023 08:13
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| # ? May 31, 2024 03:38 |
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Saint Javelin launched their CRIMEA BEACH PARTY line. All the stuff is made in Ukraine and the benefits go to supporting Ukrainians in various ways* so it's all quite expensive by design. But still clearly selling because most of the stuff is sold out on less than a week.    Not gonna lie, if they still had my size of those hawaian shirts, I would be tempted. * all of their campaigns benefit different charities and support drives. For instance last fall they sold hoodies and stuff to buy winter gear and medical supplies, and I'm not sure what charity/function the Crimea Beach Party line is supporting. Shaman Tank Spec fucked around with this message at 08:30 on Jul 20, 2023 |
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Jul 20, 2023 08:27
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