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All this Troi talk and nobody remembers that Troi got space-raped by an energy being and forced to bear its meat suit…and everybody kind of laughed it off, even her.
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Jul 20, 2023 01:58
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MuddyFunster posted:Polished off the last of TNG S1 and boy howdy, that Conspiracy, eh? That sure was a sweaty load of weird, dark paranoia. Pretty gross too what with all the maggot eating and of course, the famous head explosion, which is nice to have some context for finally. Did not know about the gross bug sitting in the exploded corpse though, that was downright ghoulish. Unsettling ending too. the other romulan is marc alaimo, who later plays gul dukat on DS9
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Jul 20, 2023 02:01
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MuddyFunster posted:Should I keep posting my thoughts on the rest of the show as I go? I thought you guys would appreciate a first timer's experiences, but if you want me to cool off, I'll do so. Yes please! Looking forward to your takes on the end of season 3 (and the beginning of season 4, to a lesser extent).
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Jul 20, 2023 02:02
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Marsupial Ape posted:All this Troi talk and nobody remembers that Troi got space-raped by an energy being and forced to bear its meat suit…and everybody kind of laughed it off, even her. Weird that you think that should be her defining moment.
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Jul 20, 2023 02:13
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SlothfulCobra posted:Weird that you think that should be her defining moment. It's really gross Nemesis was kind of a greatest hits of some of Troi's big TNG moments: getting space-raped and crashing the Enterprise into something.
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Jul 20, 2023 02:16
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SlothfulCobra posted:Weird that you think that should be her defining moment. When did I imply that was her defining moment? That’s…a very strange assumption. I’m just adding it to list of transgressions made against the character.
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Jul 20, 2023 02:23
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FISHMANPET posted:Watching TOS now and it's kinda funny how often there's some crisis and Kirk wants reports from all department heads. Like, yeah, Ron Howard's brother is threatening to blow up the ship, let's get a report from the head of the history department. Those are where all the babes work Marsupial Ape posted:All this Troi talk and nobody remembers that Troi got space-raped by an energy being and forced to bear its meat suit…and everybody kind of laughed it off, even her. That’s because actually everyone wanted her to abort it and she chose to have it.
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Jul 20, 2023 02:23
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Marsupial Ape posted:When did I imply that was her defining moment? That’s…a very strange assumption. I’m just adding it to list of transgressions made against the character. Troisgressions
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Jul 20, 2023 02:28
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zoux posted:
And it was cool that Picard was immediately like “That settles that. Moving on”. It just feels weird that it’s all “not a big deal” because the pregnancy was fast, painless, and didn’t permanently change her body. There’s some tone deafness I don’t like about that.
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Jul 20, 2023 02:28
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Ah, thanks guys, I'll try and keep it to notable episodes (for better or worse) and general thoughts on how seasons are going, rather than picking every single one apart. You'll notice I said nothing of We'll Always Have Paris because... Well, yeah.WhiteHowler posted:Yes please! Looking forward to your takes on the end of season 3 (and the beginning of season 4, to a lesser extent). If you're referring to Best of Both Worlds, I'm pretty sure I've seen that at some point years (decades?) ago, but I'm still looking forward to it. There's a tiny handful of ones I know (don't know episode titles YET), be it the with all the aliens who keep calling Picard "The Picard" and think he's god, the one where Worf (I think?) keeps jumping into different universes. A few more will come up that I recognise, probably. Sometimes, you can't help catching it on the TV, I suppose. And with regard to BoBW, that's surely a big cultural landmark bit of Trek, isn't it?
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Jul 20, 2023 02:32
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MuddyFunster posted:Ah, thanks guys, I'll try and keep it to notable episodes (for better or worse) and general thoughts on how seasons are going, rather than picking every single one apart. You'll notice I said nothing of We'll Always Have Paris because... Well, yeah. It's telling that I read that as "We'll Always Have Tom Paris" and was like "Wait, that episode was really good, what the gently caress?" and then I realized you were talking about the TNG episode where Picard is horny (part 1 of an ongoing anthology).
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Jul 20, 2023 02:34
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McSpanky posted:That kind of arrangement would definitely be more realistic, but wouldn't be as easy to follow for casual viewers. They do mention department heads and lower staff now and then on TNG but yeah, it's kinda crazy that seemingly all of the ship's operations are managed by the day shift senior staff. There's no way you could possibly have 50 regular cast members either
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Jul 20, 2023 02:36
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FISHMANPET posted:Watching TOS now and it's kinda funny how often there's some crisis and Kirk wants reports from all department heads. Like, yeah, Ron Howard's brother is threatening to blow up the ship, let's get a report from the head of the history department. Ever since the incident in Charlie X where the meatloaf in the galley ovens mysteriously turned into turkey, Kirk knows that weirdness can strike anywhere, and he wants to know about it.
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Jul 20, 2023 02:40
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I’ve been telling you turds every ship needs a Chief Metaphysican!
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Jul 20, 2023 02:43
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Sash! posted:There's no way you could possibly have 50 regular cast members either
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Jul 20, 2023 02:48
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There is no day or night and if they do adhere to US naval shifts it's absolutely brutal. Although having Data is a real plus. They can make this loving automaton sit on the bridge for weeks at a time without any degradation in his performance. Why they even give him time off makes no real narrative sense. He doesn't need time off to relax in his quarters or care for his cat (which he never should have had in the first place) He should be made to sit on the bridge indefinitely and the failure to do so is a blight on Starfleet Command in general and on Picard as a Captain.
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Jul 20, 2023 02:57
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MrMojok posted:There is no day or night and if they do adhere to US naval shifts it's absolutely brutal. Yeah okay Commander Maddox
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Jul 20, 2023 03:10
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the Vidians could have stopped the Phage but they didn't believe in mask mandates or aerosols
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Jul 20, 2023 04:02
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MrMojok posted:There is no day or night and if they do adhere to US naval shifts it's absolutely brutal. You want to go on a free elevator ride?
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Jul 20, 2023 04:31
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MrMojok posted:There is no day or night and if they do adhere to US naval shifts it's absolutely brutal. Yeah and they should have tried to duplicate him and have copies on every ship doing all sorts of menial work!
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Jul 20, 2023 05:06
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Powered Descent posted:Ever since the incident in Charlie X where the meatloaf in the galley ovens mysteriously turned into turkey, Kirk knows that weirdness can strike anywhere, and he wants to know about it. Speaking of Charlie X, I did not like two episodes in a row of "being with super human mental powers does bad things." They don't feel quite like Star Trek problems (with the hindsight of having watched everything else) but somehow they're some of the first aired episodes.
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Jul 20, 2023 05:35
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Lord Hydronium posted:It would have been fun if they'd done a one-off "Lower Decks" style episode that explored the night shift. I think the most we see is a few bits of it throughout the series, usually with Data in charge. I want an episode where the main cast start their duty and the night shift commander is just "Hey guys, hope you slept well. While you were asleep, the ship was attacked by an alien entity that claims to have been worshiped in ancient Carthage as Moloch and he forced the bridge crew into an illusory version of the Third Punic War that seemed to last five months for us but was actually just a few minutes. Also, we finished mapping that nebula. Well, see you tonight, the bridge is yours."
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Jul 20, 2023 08:03
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For the night shift bridge crew, Q's usual shenanigans are just showing up with real booze, weed, takeout, and long-lost episodes of Doctor Who. Now I'm wondering if in addition to synthahol there's also.... synthannabis? Synthabis?
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Jul 20, 2023 10:31
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Sash! posted:There's no way you could possibly have 50 regular cast members either No, but it did make me think that you could have a Galaxy-class ship performing its original mission to fly out beyond Federation space on a long-term voyage of exploration, with several series taking place on the same ship like all those Chicago shows. Galaxy Command, Galaxy Medical, Ten-Forward, Lower Decks the Sitcom, the possibilities are endless!
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Jul 20, 2023 12:31
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FISHMANPET posted:Speaking of Charlie X, I did not like two episodes in a row of "being with super human mental powers does bad things." They don't feel quite like Star Trek problems (with the hindsight of having watched everything else) but somehow they're some of the first aired episodes. TOS made some weird decisions about the order they aired the episodes vs. the order they filmed them.
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Jul 20, 2023 13:27
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TOS aired what they had. “Charlie X” aired second because it was quicker to finish production, as a bottle episode (the ship exterior shots are reused—notice how you never see the ship Charlie came from). “Where No Man…” aired third because it was the second pilot episode shown to the network, and therefore already finished.
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Jul 20, 2023 14:00
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Except in remastered they did add a shot of the Antares, so that little bit of lore/history got kind of erased by the remastering.
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Jul 20, 2023 14:13
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disaster pastor posted:TOS made some weird decisions about the order they aired the episodes vs. the order they filmed them. TOS and TNG both make the same crazy mistake of having Naked Time/Now really early in their runs, so they both had an episode where the crew is all acting out of character before we even get a grasp on what they're like IN character. Naked Time, I dunno, maybe you can get away with that, it's the fourth episode, the characters are indelible archetypes and the story is very campy and fun. Naked Now however... I don't think there's an excuse, given that they should have had the benefit of hindsight. It's a downright stupid choice having that as the second story right out of the gate with so many different characters to juggle. Add to that, it's nowhere near as fun, just a bit annoying and weird. Still I suppose Picard's weird little laugh when Beverly is trying to sex him up is SOMETHING.
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Jul 20, 2023 14:55
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I would say that Naked Time is far more successful for a number of reasons: the concept is fresher and the writing is significantly better. Naked Now is derivative and doesn't really tell us anything especially insightful about the crew. Geordi is resentful about being blind. Tasha and Troi are horny. Picard is.....? Wesley is an annoying teenager, etc. That Picard laugh is among the most bizarre moments in all of TNG's run.
F_Shit_Fitzgerald fucked around with this message at 15:12 on Jul 20, 2023 |
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Jul 20, 2023 15:00
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The Naked Now was extensively rewritten by a declining Roddenberry and team to make it all horny, to the point where DC Fontana, the original writer, had her name taken off it.
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Jul 20, 2023 15:05
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Naked Time isn’t about being out of character, they’re not just being different people like in “Return to Tomorrow” or becoming lotus eaters like in “This Side of Paradise” or whatever. it’s a look beneath the facade. It’s about exploring the sides of the characters that are always present, but that they never want to show others. Naked Time is the first “Spock loses his cool” episode and as a result gave us the Spock character as we know him. (The character wasn’t originally intended to be the hyper-repressed emotionless one, that was Majel). The character dynamic established between Kirk and Spock in that ep lasts through like, everything else that ever had the characters in it. Essentially men who relate deeply to one another because they have both cut themselves off from intimacy and normal human feeling, to try and live life in the service of an ideal. I think it was far from a mistake to run Naked Time early, and I can see why they wanted to repeat the trick with TNG. They just hosed it up.
skasion fucked around with this message at 15:12 on Jul 20, 2023 |
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Jul 20, 2023 15:09
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That's a good read and you make a fair point. Perhaps calling Naked Time a mistake is wrong. But Naked Now is absolutely a capital M Mistake. Perhaps it could have worked the same way if it weren't so inept and confused. I think it might be where a lot of the "Wesley is annoying" stuff originates from, because he's not that bad for the rest of the season. As I've said before, I find him surprisingly endearing.
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Jul 20, 2023 15:28
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Early on Wesley gets into a whole lot of 'no really captain, there's a gremlin on the side of the ship!' situations and just gets constantly belittled and dismissed and I do feel bad for the poor guy. Datalore was terribke for this I remember
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Jul 20, 2023 15:37
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I think they wanted to make Wesley annoying in S1 and you’re supposed to relate to Picard being sick of his poo poo, but they just way overdid it. He’s always right and in fact, a super genius who’s practically ready to embark on a Starfleet career, but they treat him (and dress him) like a fourth grader. Then they let him drive the boat. Idk it’s all over the place. Later Wesley appearances are much better imo
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Jul 20, 2023 15:46
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"SHUT UP, WESLEY." I knew it'd appear at some point, but I still wasn't ready for the context of him voicing pretty valid concern about Data/Lore.
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Jul 20, 2023 15:47
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MuddyFunster posted:That's a good read and you make a fair point. Perhaps calling Naked Time a mistake is wrong.
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Jul 20, 2023 15:49
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skasion posted:I think they wanted to make Wesley annoying in S1 and you’re supposed to relate to Picard being sick of his poo poo, but they just way overdid it. I'm skeptical that they intentionally made Wesley a bit annoying. Remember that the character was created by a certain Eugene Wesley Roddenberry.
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Jul 20, 2023 15:51
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Wesley was way better as a recurring character than as a main cast member. The First Duty is a good episode. The Naked Now sucks but it’s funny that Tasha and Data smashed.
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Jul 20, 2023 15:51
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MuddyFunster posted:"SHUT UP, WESLEY." Yeah, last time I went through the first TNG seasons, I was like "drat, they're being really mean to this kid"
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Jul 20, 2023 15:55
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"the naked now" could be described as a mistake, it's a terrible episode and making it the second episode of the series is even worse since any new viewers that hadn't seen "encounter at farpoint" have no idea how the characters are normally supposed to act. and even then, everyone just gets all horned up. we don't really see many effects of the intoxication beyond that in contrast, as skasion points out, we see spock lose his emotional control in "the naked time". we see kirk deal with not being able to command effectively (something that is coincidentally? more heavily the focus of the next episode, "the enemy within"). it's a much better episode that isn't strictly a comedic romp, which is something "naked now" fails at, probably due to gene's rewrites
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Jul 20, 2023 16:16
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