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Cthulu Carl posted:Yeah, I'm not saying it needs gassed - gently caress, I post in it - but it might need those rules reiterated. The slip last night was temporary, and I hope it doesn't start more often. I feel like it popped up based on the discussion of the previous page re grain exports (so not quite out of nowhere), and was mostly not serious- especially since it died down fairly quickly and the thread title remains unchanged. That's just my opinion though. Agreed that any humor there isn't really worth the trouble. Lovely Joe Stalin posted:Actually SAD disproved this. When it was at its most openly dramatic and vitriolic a lot of lurkers came out to give their feedback on topics they read but don't post in. They did that because they cared. If people aren't posting in feedback spaces it isn't that they automatically agree with the status quo, it is that they don't care enough to speak up. Or they don't exist and are an imaginary 'silent majority' construct being used to try and win an argument that is otherwise unsupported. I very, very rarely post feedback in SAD. Half of it is that threads on issues I might care about move fast enough even with slow mode that usually somebody has always made a point I might want to. The other half of my hesitation has to do with seeing what I read as good faith posts on an issue being met with aggro, dismissive or trolling responses, enough times that I don't feel comfortable posting there. I'm posting here because it's in a forum I'm already comfortable with, I don't want to see massive changes to GBS, and theoretically Fluffdaddy is hovering over the thread to stomp on any of that. anyway that's a long way of saying that people with opinions don't necessarily show up in or read the feedback forum, so maybe consider other ways of reaching them about major changes that can affect them instead of dismissing them out of hand
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Jul 20, 2023 17:46
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16-bit Butt-Head posted:i dont know about the gbs mock thread but the star citizen forum when it existed went from something that was supposed to laugh at a stupid video game kickstarting scam to doxxing random people related to the game and being weirder than the star citizen stans they were obsessed with the thread in games also recently had a blow up related to transphobia lol thats also not the first time some sort of bigotry took place within the star citizen discussions on the forums
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Jul 20, 2023 17:50
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Endorph posted:he literally says it in the post!!! ahhh!!!!!! I was talking in general, not in that specific interaction. I am also dumb and gay.
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Jul 20, 2023 17:57
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lots of stupid gay people on this website...
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Jul 20, 2023 17:58
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Lord Awkward posted:I'm posting here because it's in a forum I'm already comfortable with, I don't want to see massive changes to GBS, and theoretically Fluffdaddy is hovering over the thread to stomp on any of that. that's not why fluffdaddy had to take over moderating the thread from the gbs moderators
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Jul 20, 2023 17:59
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Lord Awkward posted:I feel like it popped up based on the discussion of the previous page re grain exports (so not quite out of nowhere), and was mostly not serious- especially since it died down fairly quickly and the thread title remains unchanged. Yeah, I feel like the point where it took a turn from "borderline, but mostly unserious" to "weirdly tribal was here Toxic Mental posted:Ukraine War: Thread for discussing how the holodomor thread defniitely DIDN'T happen Which seemed oddly similar to a CSPAM thread title, if not the actual title and seemed like it was meant for more forums war nonsense instead just "oh those silly Russians" and subsequent posts after if seem to be on the same lines. I don't think I needs gassed, I don't even think Toxic Mental needs de-IKed. But that thread can be a bit of a lightning rod and I don't want it gone because it was allowed to get out of hand. If they wanna post Putin Chimps or snicker about Tankies, whatever, but turning it into forums war bullshit again should be nipped in the bud. And again, once legitimate content got posted, things moved on, but I'd rather it not happen again or more often.
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Jul 20, 2023 18:07
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Mekchu posted:that's not why fluffdaddy had to take over moderating the thread from the gbs moderators Sure, and I'm not saying anything about that, just that he said he'd be keeping things from getting personal in here.
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Jul 20, 2023 18:07
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16-bit Butt-Head posted:lots of stupid gay people on this website... [looks in mirror, thinks about the ice cream I put in the fridge by mistake last night] goddamn it, he's right
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Jul 20, 2023 18:10
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Cthulu Carl posted:Yeah, I feel like the point where it took a turn from "borderline, but mostly unserious" to "weirdly tribal was here Agreed, as someone who reads and has posted in the thread before. The rules that were made in order to stop that kind of thing and stop the forums war poo poo got ignored for a while and nobody did anything. I think there needs to be a change of IK at the very least.
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Jul 20, 2023 18:10
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Cthulu Carl posted:Yeah, I feel like the point where it took a turn from "borderline, but mostly unserious" to "weirdly tribal was here Its worth mentioning that the jokes in question were because russia blew up grain and grain facilities in Ukraine specifically out of spite. Meta forums humour feels reasonable rather than immiediately painting it as a dig at cspam.
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Jul 20, 2023 18:20
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Cthulu Carl posted:Yeah, I feel like the point where it took a turn from "borderline, but mostly unserious" to "weirdly tribal was here Yeah it was a just joke about the grain exports using the SA reference of that other thread. It's not meant to be tribalism or forums war poo poo. It was never going to be a title change and I don't care about that other thread which I think has vanished anyways so it's not like some timely needling or something. FWIW I don't read or care about any politics forums. Except forum politics ones that is!!!!
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Jul 20, 2023 18:20
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probably just do nothing. maybe add another IK or something. hell, give everyone in that thread thread-specific grey stars, that could be fun while removal of IK-hood is more of a blessing than a punishment, this isn't exactly "mucking about with others' posts at the behest of my modfriend" levels of things and imo doesn't warrant removal of unfathomable button janitor superpowers if the thread's normally kept under control.
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Jul 20, 2023 18:23
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While I was probed for Hot Dog Day '23 I even gave a 6er to HonorableTB for actual real "other forums" ranting, which is cool and also good to know that you can probe people while probed yourself apparently
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Jul 20, 2023 18:25
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Toxic Mental posted:Yeah it was a just joke about the grain exports using the SA reference of that other thread. It's not meant to be tribalism or forums war poo poo. It was never going to be a title change and I don't care about that other thread which I think has vanished anyways so it's not like some timely needling or something. FWIW I don't read or care about any politics forums. Except forum politics ones that is!!!! Yeah, I'm not braying for blood - you even dinged HonorableTB for getting too close to forums war bs. I'm more like... Using you as an example to say "please be more careful, button-pushers." Thanks for the explanation, Toxic Mental.
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Jul 20, 2023 18:30
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Lord Awkward posted:I very, very rarely post feedback in SAD. Half of it is that threads on issues I might care about move fast enough even with slow mode that usually somebody has always made a point I might want to. The other half of my hesitation has to do with seeing what I read as good faith posts on an issue being met with aggro, dismissive or trolling responses, enough times that I don't feel comfortable posting there. At the end of the day the worst that can happen to you for contributing is that people don't respond. You're not getting tarred and feathered, banned or chain probed unless either the moderation has gone way off the rails or you post egregiously badly. If the former then others notice and speak up, if the latter then it was going to happen sooner or later anyway and you can learn from it. We're all users of the SA forums, we can and should post wherever we want. Whether you're accepted by FYAD, or agreed with in Games is irrelevant. If you have something you think is actually worth posting then just post.
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Jul 20, 2023 18:32
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Cthulu Carl posted:Yeah, I'm not braying for blood - you even dinged HonorableTB for getting too close to forums war bs. I'm more like... Using you as an example to say "please be more careful, button-pushers." I mean it's my bad if it wasn't clear that I was making a joke though, that was a misfire I guess. My b, I don't want anyone to feel uncomfortable. You've even probably seen me ding people in the past for trying to "get out CSPAM poster" people too because I genuinely wish CSPAM people would come and post in that thread. I think randomly appearing at the top of a new page gave my joke some kind of "standalone energy" or something too, if you know what I mean, I had no idea it was going to show up there lol. Thanks for bringing it up at least, I'll definitely avoid that in the future if it made anyone think it was weird.
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Jul 20, 2023 18:33
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Lord Awkward posted:Sure, and I'm not saying anything about that, just that he said he'd be keeping things from getting personal in here. Outside of like 5 people or so this has been an eye opening and productive feedback thread. I do wish to see more gbs mod participation though. I also know it's a weekday and probably not a good time for everyone.
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Jul 20, 2023 18:35
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Toxic Mental posted:I mean it's my bad if it wasn't clear that I was making a joke though, that was a misfire I guess. My b, I don't want anyone to feel uncomfortable. You've even probably seen me ding people in the past for trying to "get out CSPAM poster" people too because I genuinely wish CSPAM people would come and post in that thread. Another GBS Feedback Thread success story. I wish more could be like this.
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Jul 20, 2023 18:37
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Feedback was received, communication was exchanged, and a positive outcome was reached. Goldmine this poo poo now before it's too late.
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Jul 20, 2023 18:38
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Fluffdaddy posted:Outside of like 5 people or so this has been an eye opening and productive feedback thread. I do wish to see more gbs mod participation though. I also know it's a weekday and probably not a good time for everyone. Yeah sorry I've been absent but I've honestly not had any idea what to say or what I could really contribute to the discussions. I've been reading everything and of course taking everything on board as I want us all to learn to be a better moderating team. I really value everyone's feedback and if anyone has any specific questions for me to answer then I'll be happy to do so. also thanks for having an eye on the thread Fluff. edit: SIB's post is great and I'm very much on board with it Solefald fucked around with this message at 18:50 on Jul 20, 2023 |
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Jul 20, 2023 18:45
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Solefald posted:Yeah sorry I've been absent but I've honestly not had any idea what to say or what I could really contribute to the discussions. I've been reading everything and of course taking everything on board as I want us all to learn to be a better moderating team. I really value everyone's feedback and if anyone has any specific questions for me to answer then I'll be happy to do so. Can there also be a commitment, along with the possible rules changes you're probably considering right now, from mods to not read phobic posts that are perceived as "in a grey area" with any kind of charity? I think it'll go a long way if delivered on, honestly. There's numerous examples in this thread of mods responding with "well it could be X or Y" after other posters called them out when I think creating a culture through moderation where people stop and pause before posting on these subjects would be best for everyone - accidental phobic behavior is still phobic, and is still cause for accountability - and I think just giving a steep penalty from the get go, going "yeah, ____ aside the message that was sent here was not okay" would have prevented at least a half-dozen of the pages in this thread from even existing or being necessary
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Jul 20, 2023 19:01
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Toxic Mental posted:I mean it's my bad if it wasn't clear that I was making a joke though, that was a misfire I guess. My b, I don't want anyone to feel uncomfortable. You've even probably seen me ding people in the past for trying to "get out CSPAM poster" people too because I genuinely wish CSPAM people would come and post in that thread. I appreciate the explanation, thanks.
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Jul 20, 2023 19:16
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Fluffdaddy posted:I do wish to see more gbs mod participation though. quote:VLADIMIR: Let's wait and see what he says.
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Jul 20, 2023 19:24
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Autisanal Cheese posted:I appreciate the explanation, thanks. No problem, and also thanks for your feedback as well. I'll try and do better.
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Jul 20, 2023 19:33
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It'd be real cool it if Seth posted in here and replied to all the stuff that he didn't really respond to, a lot of the heat around this flareup came from people posting in SAD about being pissed at his decisions and him not responding/engaging there. I don't think it's legit to dodge the SAD feedback but I can understand how people who a lot of people are mad at could feel like they're in "enemy territory" or w/e, but I don't think there's any excuse to dodge feedback in a space that is specifically carved out to get rid of that feeling as a result of you saying you felt that way. If he's busy with work or w/e I think it'd be cool if he just dropped a note in here saying that and was like "but I recognize that as a mod I can't just nope out on community feedback and I'm gonna carve out some time this weekend" or w/e (and then actually did). I would hope/imagine that Fluffdaddy would continue to slap down people who got out of line and maybe could even coordinate with seth to make sure he's actively watching when seth's posting or something IDK.
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Jul 20, 2023 19:52
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LanceHunter posted:Okay, maybe feedback on the Star Citizen megathread in the Games forum can go in that forum's feedback thread. I don't see anyone banned in the GBS Star Citizen thread since at least April (which was as far back as I cared to check).
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Jul 20, 2023 20:01
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Yeah I appreciate the mods and IKs who commented and of course its great to see some actual user communication going on in here but Seth is MIA and Karma pretty much just posted to say he wasn't mad while in the process of tilting at fluff. Mods are part of this ecosystem too folks, you got someone going out of their way to let you post earnestly for a bit without worrying about the power dynamic. Use it.
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Jul 20, 2023 20:02
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The current incarnation of the gbs Ukraine thread is doing alright and I actually feel comfortable posting there on a regular basis again.
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Jul 20, 2023 20:06
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surc posted:It'd be real cool it if Seth posted in here and replied to all the stuff that he didn't really respond to, a lot of the heat around this flareup came from people posting in SAD about being pissed at his decisions and him not responding/engaging there. I don't think it's legit to dodge the SAD feedback but I can understand how people who a lot of people are mad at could feel like they're in "enemy territory" or w/e, but I don't think there's any excuse to dodge feedback in a space that is specifically carved out to get rid of that feeling as a result of you saying you felt that way. seth is indeed busy with work for the week iirc. just fyi as to why he's not active atm
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Jul 20, 2023 20:08
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Keep in mind that some people have real life poo poo going on too though. I was super busy all morning with actual real life work emails and phone calls and poo poo which is why I couldn't respond faster here. Both of them might be doing work stuff since it's the middle of the day. edit beaten by a superior poaster Runa posted:The current incarnation of the gbs Ukraine thread is doing alright and I actually feel comfortable posting there on a regular basis again. Yeah thanks for doing that, I do notice it, I wish more people would do the same. More genuine posting and voices is a good thing. Toxic Mental fucked around with this message at 20:13 on Jul 20, 2023 |
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Jul 20, 2023 20:10
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I'm going to post on Seth's behalf to say that he and I were talking about these issues a day or two ago and he recognized during our conversation that he was starting to feel burned out, so he decided to log off and take a break from the forums. I really strongly support mods taking breaks when they feel that sort of low-key burnout, but the side effect is it means he won't be around to comment on feedback for a little while.
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Jul 20, 2023 20:12
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vyelkin posted:I'm going to post on Seth's behalf to say that he and I were talking about these issues a day or two ago and he recognized during our conversation that he was starting to feel burned out and it was contributing to him getting annoyed more easily in situations like the recent feedback threads, which was not helping the situation. This was something he regretted so he decided to log off and take a break from the forums. I really strongly support mods taking breaks when they feel that sort of low-key burnout, but the side effect is it means he won't be around to comment on feedback for a little while. Good context and a good call then.
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Jul 20, 2023 20:14
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vyelkin posted:I'm going to post on Seth's behalf to say that he and I were talking about these issues a day or two ago and he recognized during our conversation that he was starting to feel burned out, so he decided to log off and take a break from the forums. I really strongly support mods taking breaks when they feel that sort of low-key burnout, but the side effect is it means he won't be around to comment on feedback for a little while. 
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Jul 20, 2023 20:18
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Also thanks fluff for making this thread feel safe to post in despite also being a PYF regular. It's easy to see that past incarnations of this thread were hobbled by too much of an ingroup vs outsiders perspective to actually have a constructive conversation about a sensitive topic. I don't really have a strong opinion on word filter moderation. I think it's a bit silly, feeling more like straight people covering their rear end than making a genuinely safe space, as was evidenced in past iterations of the discussion, but I don't have a problem with trying to have consistent rules in general. The problem arises when people seem more concerned with the letter of the law than the spirit, and find other ways to openly display homophobia, transphobia, and ableism all without saying banned words. E: that isn't meant to be a call-out but rather an acknowledgement of what was happening and recognizing that we can do better, as posters. Also, Toxic Mental posted:Yeah thanks for doing that, I do notice it, I wish more people would do the same. More genuine posting and voices is a good thing. I do genuinely appreciate your efforts as IK of that thread a lot. You do a good job keeping the thread approachable and on-track and I just wanted to say thanks for that Runa fucked around with this message at 20:26 on Jul 20, 2023 |
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Jul 20, 2023 20:21
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vyelkin posted:I'm going to post on Seth's behalf to say that he and I were talking about these issues a day or two ago and he recognized during our conversation that he was starting to feel burned out, so he decided to log off and take a break from the forums. I really strongly support mods taking breaks when they feel that sort of low-key burnout, but the side effect is it means he won't be around to comment on feedback for a little while.  Thanks, that's useful context. Hope he feels up to engaging on it when he comes back (assuming he doesn't realize it's full on burnout and peace or anything), because I think it's extremely necessary for any positive outcome to this crap, otherwise it just ends in a wet fart of resentment and grudges that contribute to whatever next thing.
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Jul 20, 2023 20:21
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Runa posted:The current incarnation of the gbs Ukraine thread is doing alright and I actually feel comfortable posting there on a regular basis again. I think it's doing fine even if I find it painfully unfunny and cringe a lot of the time. But that's just GBS for you, gotta run that already unfunny joke into the ground so hard it ends up in Hell.
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Jul 20, 2023 20:22
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moderators are like onions
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Jul 20, 2023 20:23
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Runa posted:The problem arises when people seem more concerned with the letter of the law than the spirit, and find other ways to openly display homophobia, transphobia, and ableism all without saying banned words. this is my chief problem with it. i don't specifically have a problem with banning heinous words, as having agreed with aardvarks post earlier. the problem is that many lovely posters continue to use gross language and messaging but because they didn't use the special naughty word they can sometimes slip by. that's what i mean when i decry "word filter moderation". it's ineffective at actually solving the root problem which is punishing bigots, meanwhile some random poster gets destroyed for saying "oi 'es a cheeky oval office innit" or w/e bri'ish people say (thankfully this doesn't really happen any more)
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Jul 20, 2023 20:27
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unfortunately that is incorrect. british people are still saying things
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Jul 20, 2023 20:29
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Counted posted:Can there also be a commitment, along with the possible rules changes you're probably considering right now, from mods to not read phobic posts that are perceived as "in a grey area" with any kind of charity? I think it'll go a long way if delivered on, honestly. edit: accidentally hit post before actually writing anything lmao one sec edit2: I can't speak on behalf of the other Moderators but this will be good for us all to discuss and make sure we're on the same page. As far as I am aware we should already have a no-tolerance approach on any reported -phobic posts, and if we aren't 100% sure that the content is -phobic then we would usually discuss it with other moderators just to get some feedback but for the most part there shouldn't be any doubt in why someone would be making that report in the first place. Moderators can only give out a maximum of 1 day probation so anything more than that has to be run past an Admin anyway, who will usually give their feedback and make the final call on it. This may be why it takes time to escalate punishments as we can't just give out a steep penalty without it being run by an admin and discussed. I hope that makes some sense and answered the question but obviously just shoot me more questions if need be. I'm not always the best at articulating my thoughts so I'm worried I may have missed bits. Sorry! I'll try my best to answer what I can. 
Solefald fucked around with this message at 22:32 on Jul 20, 2023 |
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Jul 20, 2023 20:29
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