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The Last Call posted:Marvels latest Alien issue. Ah. I had no idea there was a current comic book.
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Jul 20, 2023 00:33
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You know, Burke, I don't know which species is worse. You don't see them loving each other over for a goddamn percentage.
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Jul 20, 2023 00:35
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Pennywise the Frown posted:Ah. I had no idea there was a current comic book. They do five issues of a storyline. Then another. and another..... It's probably all connected but for now we've had a few different story lines, each with their own arch.
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Jul 20, 2023 00:40
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I'd love to write a whole novel about Newt. About her world and how she sees the world. About her finding Ripley...
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Jul 20, 2023 02:13
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redshirt posted:Burke got his DNA sample I assume love at first sight
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Jul 20, 2023 07:30
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edogawa rando posted:At the end of the day, Gorman's biggest failings were that he was lacking in experience which made him overcompensate by being such a stickler for formality and rules, and that he lacked the ability to think flexibly on his feet, e.g., him overcomplicating instructions to Apone over the radio, and freezing under pressure when poo poo was really hitting the fan at an even greater rate than it was a few minutes ago. It doesn't make him a bad person, it just made him a bad leader that had potential to grow into the role. One thing that stands out to me is that Gorman does make the right call in a stressful situation. When the platoon gets bounced he orders, "Fall back, lay down covering fire with incinerators," in a clear, calm voice. Don't get me wrong, he made a lot of mistakes too. His communication with his platoon was poor - he should have explained why they had to give up their rounds - but he wasn't completely inept. I also think putting the command back in an APC where they can only see what's going on through TV cameras is a terrible idea. But, well, the movies IS a metaphor for Vietnam, and this is representing what happened when commanding officers tried to direct firefights from helicopters far above the jungle. redshirt posted:Agreed. There's nothing malicious about Gorman. Just incompetence. He just wasn't the right man for the job. As has been said, that's just how officers work. And, for that matter, this was exactly what Weyland-Yutani wanted, a new Lt fresh out of Space ROTC who they could push around, who wouldn't get in the way of what the company wanted to do - bring back a Xenomorph. MrMojok posted:But it could also be that the USCMC doesn’t promote as quickly, and even more likely, the writers weren’t familiar with how it all worked IRL and thought Hicks should be an NCO and everyone else privates, except for Apone. I thought he was an NCO, don't they call him "Corporal?" (I.e., E-4)
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Jul 20, 2023 18:40
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Cessna posted:One thing that stands out to me is that Gorman does make the right call in a stressful situation. When the platoon gets bounced he orders, "Fall back, lay down covering fire with incinerators," in a clear, calm voice. Right call, but he still micromanaged it and forced Apone to take a pause in the unfolding chaos to try and listen in…which led directly to him getting picked up and carted off to be an incubator, and then the true chaos unfolded directly after 
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Jul 20, 2023 18:53
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Regarding what I said earlier about people not always becoming NCOs, after looking into it more I think what I was thinking of was the US Army "Specialist" ranks where an enlisted soldier can achieve pay grades equal to and higher than Corporal while still being below Corporal and other NCOs in authority. It looks like you actually have to take a leadership course and be recommended for leadership to go on to be a Corporal instead. So it seems like the US Army specifically has options for people who just want to do a job and don't want to be a leader. However the US Marines don't seem to have anything like that. edit: Except it looks like the Specialist levels were gradually pared back across the second half of the 20th century and it might not be quite like that anymore? drat my information was way out of date. That's what I get for most of my military interest being Cold War BattleMaster fucked around with this message at 19:13 on Jul 20, 2023 |
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Jul 20, 2023 19:04
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Icon Of Sin posted:Right call, but he still micromanaged it and forced Apone to take a pause in the unfolding chaos to try and listen in…which led directly to him getting picked up and carted off to be an incubator, and then the true chaos unfolded directly after Oh, absolutely. He was not good at communication, didn't follow basic leadership principles - all in all, he was pretty much a typical new lieutenant. I'm just pointing out that he wasn't completely inept.
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Jul 20, 2023 19:07
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BattleMaster posted:Regarding what I said earlier about people not always becoming NCOs, after looking into it more I think what I was thinking of was the US Army "Specialist" ranks where an enlisted soldier can achieve pay grades equal to and higher than Corporal while still being below Corporal and other NCOs in authority. It looks like you actually have to take a leadership course and be recommended for leadership to go on to be a Corporal instead. So it seems like the US Army specifically has options for people who just want to do a job and don't want to be a leader. I'm ex-USAF which also doesn't have anything like the Army's specialist ranks, but after a brief bit of googling, it appears that corporals in the US Army are basically pretty rare these days outside of combat arms units. It does seem that you're correct in that a Spec4 (which is the only currently existing specialist rank, all the others having been phased out) basically has all the benefits and none of the responsibilities of a corporal: junior enlisted troops still have to do what they say, they get the same pay as a corporal, but they're not considered NCOs so (theoretically) they wouldn't get their asses chewed out for some of the leadership-related issues that a corporal would get bawled out over. However, as I understand it, for a soldier to progress to corporal in the US Army these days does indicate that they are leadership material to the higher-ups. Which in turn means they'd likely be given preference for things like promotions, training schools, etc. Whereas a SP4 will likely remain in their pay grade a lot longer because they're not as well-rounded as a corporal might be, being an expert in their particular field (hence the term "specialist") but not as skilled in other areas as a corporal.
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Jul 20, 2023 20:17
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Cessna posted:I thought he was an NCO, don't they call him "Corporal?" (I.e., E-4) Yeah, he is an NCO, as a corporal. I meant maybe they thought the platoon sergeant should be an E-6 or E-7, then there’s just one corporal, and everybody else is privates and lance corporals and such.
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Jul 20, 2023 20:25
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Sydney Bottocks posted:However, as I understand it, for a soldier to progress to corporal in the US Army these days does indicate that they are leadership material to the higher-ups. Which in turn means they'd likely be given preference for things like promotions, training schools, etc. Whereas a SP4 will likely remain in their pay grade a lot longer because they're not as well-rounded as a corporal might be, being an expert in their particular field (hence the term "specialist") but not as skilled in other areas as a corporal. Even though they only have Spec-4 now, back in the Vietnam era they went all the way up to E-9.  It is strange to think of an E-9 with no NCO rank. MrMojok posted:Yeah, he is an NCO, as a corporal. Yeah. I only asked because the time we hear someone say his rank was from Ripley and Burke: quote:Ripley: I believe Corporal Hicks has the authority here... And he could have been a LCpl; most civilians don't really care about the difference. The whole USCMC TO&E (from the Colonial Marines Technical Manual) is weird. I like the fact that it can be rationalized - units are generally getting smaller, historically speaking, so ideas like a two-person fireteam/four person squad isn't impossible. But in some ways it just doesn't make sense either. Cessna fucked around with this message at 20:54 on Jul 20, 2023 |
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Jul 20, 2023 20:45
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HiroProtagonist posted:its probably buried somewhere in this thread but there's a compelling theory that isn't at all actually suggested anywhere in the film itself (or the directors cut, for that matter) that the company deliberately chose the unit most likely to get hosed up and mauled badly enough to have to bail back to earth without the opportunity for an orderly retreat that would give time for someone to start asking inconvenient questions I mean to be fair, most units would go in guns blazing and get loving wiped out by the Xenos quickly. doesn't Vasquez even dismiss the deal as just another bug hunt? Oh, you might get 1 or 2 people questioning orders and being smart but the xenos are loving fast and all you need is one fuckup, like we saw in Aliens, for poo poo to scatter.
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Jul 20, 2023 20:54
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Yeah, I don't know that they wanted them to get wiped out per se. I think they didn't take the potential threat seriously. Sure, some crazy lady told a story about monsters on that planet, but she's obviously insane. Maybe just send in a few jarheads to make sure that the colonists didn't get eaten by feral boars, or maybe they just forgot to turn their phone on, who knows?
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Jul 20, 2023 21:00
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Cowslips Warren posted:I mean to be fair, most units would go in guns blazing and get loving wiped out by the Xenos quickly. doesn't Vasquez even dismiss the deal as just another bug hunt? Oh, you might get 1 or 2 people questioning orders and being smart but the xenos are loving fast and all you need is one fuckup, like we saw in Aliens, for poo poo to scatter. I think it was Hudson complaining about another bug hunt. Which always made me wonder: What other bugs? Also, who are the Arcturans?
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Jul 20, 2023 21:33
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I'd figured there were other, non-intelligent insect or arachnid-esque lifeforms encountered that could be easily quelled with a USCM unit armed to the teeth with a particle beam phalanx, tactical smart missiles, phase-plasma rifles, RPGs, electronic ball-breakers, nukes, knives and sharp sticks. Also Arcturus is probably the Alien-universe equivalent of Risa.
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Jul 20, 2023 21:51
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Cessna posted:Yeah, I don't know that they wanted them to get wiped out per se. Yeah, pretty sure it was intended as recon mainly, you don’t need a lot of people to go over and just see what’s going on. Hit something too big for them, fall back and call for reinforcements or drop nukes. The “mission” was pretty much accomplished once they saw the nest and everyone in there being dead, it was just losing the drop ship that screwed them.
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Jul 20, 2023 22:10
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Cowslips Warren posted:I mean to be fair, most units would go in guns blazing and get loving wiped out by the Xenos quickly. doesn't Vasquez even dismiss the deal as just another bug hunt? Oh, you might get 1 or 2 people questioning orders and being smart but the xenos are loving fast and all you need is one fuckup, like we saw in Aliens, for poo poo to scatter. That reminds - I'm sure Xenomrph would know - Vasquez suggests rolling in nerve gas and calling it a day but it's dismissed because they're not sure it would effect them (and that nuking the entire from orbit is the only way to be sure comes up as a more viable option). But like, would the nerve gas have no or less effect on them or would it effect them? Was there any story where it was attempted on them? I mean their biology is uh unusual but they still seem to have like, a nervous system, some kind of brain, etc. just from the behaviors we see throughout the movies.
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Jul 20, 2023 22:10
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Sydney Bottocks posted:However, as I understand it, for a soldier to progress to corporal in the US Army these days does indicate that they are leadership material to the higher-ups. Which in turn means they'd likely be given preference for things like promotions, training schools, etc. Whereas a SP4 will likely remain in their pay grade a lot longer because they're not as well-rounded as a corporal might be, being an expert in their particular field (hence the term "specialist") but not as skilled in other areas as a corporal. Corporal is an interesting rank, in my experience I've mostly seen it used to A) test a young leader to see if they're ready to be an NCO, since CPL stripes are easy to give and easy to take away, a lot less paperwork involved than promoting and demoting paygrades, and B) fill a slot with someone capable for the job but not otherwise eligible for promotion to E-5 yet. But I don't recall working with many of them (except for combat medics). Personally I was a team leader as a SPC until one day they pinned SGT stripes on me and that was pretty common.
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Jul 20, 2023 22:29
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Neo Rasa posted:That reminds - I'm sure Xenomrph would know - Vasquez suggests rolling in nerve gas and calling it a day but it's dismissed because they're not sure it would effect them (and that nuking the entire from orbit is the only way to be sure comes up as a more viable option). But like, would the nerve gas have no or less effect on them or would it effect them? Was there any story where it was attempted on them? I mean their biology is uh unusual but they still seem to have like, a nervous system, some kind of brain, etc. just from the behaviors we see throughout the movies. So, we'll go into some interesting territory here. Actual nerve gasses generally do their thing by getting into the space between a nerve and a muscle, and then shutting down the signal that would normally tell the muscle that it can relax. The net result is that the nerve continually says GO GO GO GO, the muscle can't relax (and can only contract further), and The End comes when the nerve gas either gets to your heart muscles or certain parts of your brain. The acronym for exposure is SLUDGES, meaning Salivation, Lacrimation, Urination, Defecation, and Gastrointestinal Emesis. All of these things have ducts or muscles that control their rate, and if everything clamps down tight those ducts are forcing their contents out. Exposure can be through inhalation or transdermal; transdermal gives you a little bit more time to react, and from what I remember the treatment is "dump atropine into the poor bastard who got exposed until they hit their tolerance, then treat them for atropine poisoning because that's a thing that's going to happen sooner or later when treating someone exposed to a nerve agent". Science talk: they're generally acetylcholineesterrase (AchE) inhibitors; acetylcholine (Ach) is one of the compounds a nerve releases to tell a muscle to contract, and the esterase clears out the Ach and the muscle gets to relax. Nerve gas prevents the 'relax' part of the equation, leading to all the above-mentioned symptoms and death once something contracts that needs to relax, like heart muscle If the gestating chestburster took some of the genes from a human host that regulate muscles, nerves, and the connections between them, nerve agents could work against them. Maybe only transdermally though, breathing it in would expose the nerve agent to their blood and likely be destroyed by it (like everything else).
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Jul 20, 2023 23:26
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Icon Of Sin posted:So, we'll go into some interesting territory here. Actual nerve gasses generally do their thing by getting into the space between a nerve and a muscle, and then shutting down the signal that would normally tell the muscle that it can relax. The net result is that the nerve continually says GO GO GO GO, the muscle can't relax (and can only contract further), and The End comes when the nerve gas either gets to your heart muscles or certain parts of your brain. The acronym for exposure is SLUDGES, meaning Salivation, Lacrimation, Urination, Defecation, and Gastrointestinal Emesis. All of these things have ducts or muscles that control their rate, and if everything clamps down tight those ducts are forcing their contents out. Exposure can be through inhalation or transdermal; transdermal gives you a little bit more time to react, and from what I remember the treatment is "dump atropine into the poor bastard who got exposed until they hit their tolerance, then treat them for atropine poisoning because that's a thing that's going to happen sooner or later when treating someone exposed to a nerve agent". You know your nerve gasses. And I'd trust your input. BUT I certainly wouldn't count on it with a first time Xeno encounter.
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Jul 20, 2023 23:40
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redshirt posted:I think it was Hudson complaining about another bug hunt. I think there's some information about Arcturians in the USCM Technical Manual or maybe one of the books related to the RPG. Xenopedia lays out some conflicting descriptions of their physiology and culture. As for your first question, that's a strong point of contention that's deffo come up ITT or the CineD thread before. I kind of like the ambiguity; some people choose to read Hudson's question as basically asking about a 'snipe hunt' (something of a fool's errand heavily implying fruitlessly searching for a made-up creature, something like a 'wild goose chase'). But, if you pay attention real good, you'll notice the dropship is emblazoned with a logo of a cartoon eagle shooting a machine gun and wearing large boots, titled 'Bug Stomper' with the subtitle 'We Endanger Species.' So it seems pretty literal that the USCM has had encounters with... something.
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Jul 21, 2023 00:26
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bees everywhere posted:Corporal is an interesting rank, in my experience I've mostly seen it used to A) test a young leader to see if they're ready to be an NCO, since CPL stripes are easy to give and easy to take away, a lot less paperwork involved than promoting and demoting paygrades, and B) fill a slot with someone capable for the job but not otherwise eligible for promotion to E-5 yet. But I don't recall working with many of them (except for combat medics). Personally I was a team leader as a SPC until one day they pinned SGT stripes on me and that was pretty common. This is all sincerely interesting! I never looked into the differences in promotion structures across branches. I was a Marine sgt. and despite being in a fairly technical role, combat readiness was always a primary focus for proficiency ratings. Maybe due to the USMC's relatively small size and... unique culture, every Marine who is promoted to E4 is nominally a corporal regardless of MOS ('EVERY MARINE A RIFLEMAN!', etc.) and it's just sorta assumed they are specialized in their field since corporal is merit-based (I mean, you'll realistically get it eventually if you don't gently caress up, but it needs a signoff/selection vs. just happening). As an inverse of the Army, the USMC chain of promotion splits at E7 where you can pursue senior technical leadership (master sergeant > master gunnery sergeant) or senior administrative leadership (first sergeant > sergeant major). Until then you're just an NCO-shaped lego that is expected to be able to be plugged into a slot befitting your rank if some shooting starts while you're in the middle of fixing radio equipment or cooking eggs or whatever.
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Jul 21, 2023 00:40
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We also have to take into account that this is a futuristic fantasy military and the writers have absolutely every liberty they want.
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Jul 21, 2023 01:44
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redshirt posted:Also, who are the Arcturans? It doesn't matter baby!
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Jul 21, 2023 02:55
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Cessna posted:Yeah, I don't know that they wanted them to get wiped out per se. not wiped out, just depleted enough to make sure the company got their specimen without too many grunts asking questions on the ground to chance people thinking about anything more than basic survival and gtfo
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Jul 21, 2023 03:27
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redshirt posted:Also, who are the Arcturans? I'm pretty sure my headcanon is wrong but the only non-gross way for me to square it from the throw away line in the film is that it's a far flung human colony of human beings with very libertine views of normative human gender expression, space Bangkok more or less.
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Jul 21, 2023 03:38
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quote:The Arcturians were a humanoid extraterrestrial species native to the planet Arcturus They were the first sentient alien species encountered by mankind and humanity had established interspecies trade with them by the late 2100s.
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Jul 21, 2023 03:56
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This guy Arcturians
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Jul 21, 2023 03:57
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redshirt posted:You know your nerve gasses. And I'd trust your input. BUT I certainly wouldn't count on it with a first time Xeno encounter. you could always try it and see what happens from a safe distance
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Jul 21, 2023 04:04
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HiroProtagonist posted:you could always try it and see what happens from a safe distance Tell that to Spunkmeyer
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Jul 21, 2023 04:06
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to be fair, if we have learned nothing from aliens in sci fi, it's that one of the first things we as humans will try to do is gently caress one. Xenos are just not listening to our safe words and don't practice safe sex or birth control.
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Jul 21, 2023 04:39
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Cowslips Warren posted:to be fair, if we have learned nothing from aliens in sci fi, it's that one of the first things we as humans will try to do is gently caress one. And yet when one fucks us back, it’s all “chestburster” this or “xenomorph infestation” that 
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Jul 21, 2023 09:06
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redshirt posted:I'd love to write a whole novel about Newt. About her world and how she sees the world. About her finding Ripley... That's not a terrible idea for an Alien: Isolation sequel.
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Jul 21, 2023 12:18
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Newt wouldn’t have any weapons, barely any tools, probably no crafting skills, just Casey for company, and there’d be scores of the bastards wandering about every night for close to a month. Make it with VR in mind and you’ve basically designed a program to cause coronaries, ie a Terrible Idea. Let’s do it.
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Jul 21, 2023 12:37
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Sentinel Red posted:Newt wouldn’t have any weapons, barely any tools, probably no crafting skills, just Casey for company, and there’d be scores of the bastards wandering about every night for close to a month. Make it with VR in mind and you’ve basically designed a program to cause coronaries, ie a Terrible Idea. The official sequel to Alien: Isolation was sort of like a Five Nights game where Amanda Ripley has an overhead view of a place and directs everyone around to avoid alien stuff by having them close/unseal stuff solve things to accomplish objectives. I could see a Newt game where you're the one on the ground doing all that stuff but without the rest of the crew/someone directing you, but it wouldn't be much different from like, Penumbra or any number of first person games like that.
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Jul 21, 2023 14:46
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Cowslips Warren posted:to be fair, if we have learned nothing from aliens in sci fi, it's that one of the first things we as humans will try to do is gently caress one. The James T. Kirk method of Interspecies diplomacy
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Jul 21, 2023 15:33
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Went to a shop to recharge some fire extinguishers & saw this in their wall: Guess what I'm thinking about now… Fire safety
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Jul 21, 2023 23:41
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I did not know you could recharge fire extinguishers. I have a few but they're very old, maybe 8 years, and I'm worried they might not work.
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Jul 21, 2023 23:51
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Pennywise the Frown posted:I did not know you could recharge fire extinguishers. At that point you'll need hydrostatic testing done on them to make sure they can hold a charge. You may want to get them replaced at 10 years, but as long as they're stored in a decent environment I've seen dry chem ones last for 15+ years no problem.
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Jul 21, 2023 23:57
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