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I AM GRANDO posted:This is why I was confused by that lady who said she was anti-slavery. Same way jrodefeld is "anti-slavery" He's against income taxes which are slavery. But is cool with forced labor in the UAE because workers whine too much, and he believes the Confederacy had a right to self-defense against Northern aggression.
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Jul 19, 2023 22:14
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For libertarians, the definition of slavery is "anything that mildly inconveniences me".
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Jul 20, 2023 00:25
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Bears are slavery.
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Jul 20, 2023 00:33
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uber_stoat posted:Bears are slavery. No no, you see bears brought poaching operations to New Hampshire, creating new business opportunity.
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Jul 20, 2023 00:42
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Slavery, to them, is a taxpayer funded service that is free at the point of consumption. You gotta wonder if they get worked up over other uses of "free".  "It's not FREE refills! Someone had to manufacture the soda syrup, the compressed C02, the soda fountain, people had to maintain the machinery! It's not free, you are FORCING people to work to provide you something without compensation!
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Jul 20, 2023 00:42
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uber_stoat posted:Bears are slavery. But I thought they were all about the right to bear arms 
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Jul 20, 2023 00:45
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Panfilo posted:Slavery, to them, is a taxpayer funded service that is free at the point of consumption. Reminds me of when Something Sensitive got brain-twitched over me offhandedly referring to Canadians as having “free healthcare” WHEN IN FACT it is paid for by TAXES
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Jul 20, 2023 01:07
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Need that political compass meme of 'everything is X except actual X, which is fine'. Lower right quadrant is of course slavery.
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Jul 20, 2023 09:55
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Too true https://twitter.com/_Floodlight/status/1681733212429533195?t=eR-u0i3GETKHdmIDamB4iA&s=19
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Jul 20, 2023 13:22
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That tweet was deleted, right? Right? lol of course not.
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Jul 20, 2023 17:13
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It got worse and more terrible Libertarians got involved
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Jul 20, 2023 18:23
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Kaiju Cage Match posted:That tweet was deleted, right? Right? Well surely if someone had a meaningful career at stake they'd avoid saying things like that...but given that they are Googleplex-ing down on their take I assume the people in the NH Libertarian party have little to lose from this negative attention lol. "I'm not owned! I'm not owned!" I shout, as I slowly transform into a killdozer
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Jul 20, 2023 18:58
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Captain_Maclaine posted:New Hampshire libertarians are, somehow, much worse than other libertarians, and that was before the mises fascists took the party over. And not just because of the bears, that's incidental. Professor Shark posted:It got worse and more terrible Libertarians got involved 
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Jul 20, 2023 19:48
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LIVE FREE OR DIE!!! *catapults head-first off the back of a stolen 4-wheeler into the side of an above-ground pool with "google Ron Paul" airbrushed on the side*
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Jul 20, 2023 20:05
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Libertarian.txt https://twitter.com/DylanMAllman/status/1681793915580567553?t=VAXo_Ad_tDyCfykF-rBgdA&s=19
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Jul 21, 2023 01:50
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Panfilo posted:Libertarian.txt I tried to read that and 
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Jul 21, 2023 01:57
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Apparently libertarians are the only ones doing charity right https://twitter.com/RealSpikeCohen/status/1682030276921421824?t=MH0SZ7LnIJNEP0Or4G4v2Q&s=19
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Jul 21, 2023 02:01
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god voluntarists piss me off pure voluntarism and purely beneficial transactions for all included don't work in the case of survival needs, and if the system breaks at any point it's wholly worthless like there's almost kinda an argument for it if there were a very robust social safety net that guaranteed things like a solid UBI, healthcare, etc., in which people would be choosing things to enrich their lives rather than prolong them, except then you have to consider how basic services are provided and the whole thing collapses again the profit motive is seriously poo poo at helping people with their day to day lives and it just makes me so drat miserable that this is a way of thinking that has pervaded so much of modern society
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Jul 21, 2023 03:00
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Panfilo posted:Libertarian.txt I was so hoping this was one of those ones where they celebrate deregulation and then end up violently making GBS threads themselves from drinking now-legal raw milk and instantly getting listeria.  theshim posted:god voluntarists piss me off Like so, so much else about libertarians, the eternal rebuttal to voluntarism remains, "on the other hand, all of recorded history."
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Jul 21, 2023 03:07
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Panfilo posted:Slavery, to them, is a taxpayer funded service that is free at the point of consumption. but I paid for it when I made my meal a combo for 1$ more? if anything if i truelly support the biz, i would ask them to to make the items separate, but still one transaction.
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Jul 21, 2023 03:17
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I feel like the car accident dilemma applies here. A Libertarian gets in a car accident. He needs a blood transfusion to live. Under his own ideology, are we to presume he'd just accept the potential death sentence? After all, the only compatible donor could simply say "no". Someone could have deliberately run him off the road, cut his brakes, doesn't matter, it isn't the donor's responsibility after all right? By their logic, forcing someone to donate blood would be slavery but "force" could be applied very broadly... Is it "force" to ostracize the person into going through with it? Is it slavery to act in lieu of getting cancel cultured? Choice and force, much like slavery and liberty, end up being very mushy concepts to libertarians.
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Jul 21, 2023 03:25
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PhazonLink posted:but I paid for it when I made my meal a combo for 1$ more? if anything if i truelly support the biz, i would ask them to to make the items separate, but still one transaction. If they don't give you a rebate for choosing not to take a refill then it's technically slavery. Their rules not mine. After all, under those circumstances you are saving them money! Why should you have to pay as much as the glutton that took eight refills? But they don't give you the choice! You are FORCED to pay for the excess that others consume at your own expense. Obviously taxes work the exact same way.
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Jul 21, 2023 03:28
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well if thats the case then I/we should take 9 or more sodas. also was it this forum/SA that had some user try to steal Taco Bell Mountain Dew Baja Blast with a fake cup, a hose, and a gym bag with some sort of tank? there was a crude ms paint diagram of this setup.
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Jul 21, 2023 05:05
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OwlFancier posted:
Oh hmmm this is awkward, but the rest of us got asked about being brought into the world, someone just forgot to ask you, sorry about that.
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Jul 21, 2023 05:10
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Panfilo posted:I feel like the car accident dilemma applies here. The person who can save the libertarians life with blood says "I will give you blood if you choose to sign a contract with me that gives me total control over your for the rest of your natural life", the libertarian is thus contractually obliged to serve for the rest of their life. This is freedom according to libertarians.
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Jul 21, 2023 06:25
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Generally the rule is you're putting more thought and good faith into it than libertarians ever do.
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Jul 21, 2023 06:39
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PhazonLink posted:also was it this forum/SA that had some user try to steal Taco Bell Mountain Dew Baja Blast with a fake cup, a hose, and a gym bag with some sort of tank? there was a crude ms paint diagram of this setup. nah, it was GameFAQs I think, but here's a goon telling the story https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fD7X9SCn0To
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Jul 21, 2023 10:34
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hooman posted:The person who can save the libertarians life with blood says "I will give you blood if you choose to sign a contract with me that gives me total control over your for the rest of your natural life", the libertarian is thus contractually obliged to serve for the rest of their life. This is freedom according to libertarians. I'm just rules-lawyering for the fun of it, as Ghost Leviathan says we're thinking about this more than libertarians ever will, but would this run afoul of the NAP? Like, does this count as coercion in the first place for libertarian thought, and is coercion against the NAP? It's perfectly fine by them to sell children against their will since children are dependents, so that's definitely coercion towards the child to a normal human mind, but is the child just an object in relation to the NAP in all this? Whereas the car accident victim libertarian is, presumably, a participant in the NAP and thus counts as a "human being" while the child in the previous example does not, for the purposes of the NAP. The other coercion example, I suppose, is that I assume libertarians would abhor Elliot Stabler (  ) beating some dude trying to get him to confess to raping someone (I assume rape is against the NAP), because he's fundamentally the figure standing in the background of that libertopiacartoon; maybe it should be the rape victim beating a confession out of their attacker, since the state should only exist to enforce contracts and everything else is up to the libertarian individuals? This is all incredibly silly, but that's what this thread is about.
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Jul 21, 2023 11:06
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Panfilo posted:Old and Busted: "Democracy is two wolves and a sheep deciding what's for dinner." How much would you like to give this bloke a knuckle sandwich
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Jul 21, 2023 11:36
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Wizard Master posted:How much would you like to give this bloke a knuckle sandwich I propose we put the matter to a vote and let the will of the collective individuals decide the matter  https://twitter.com/jackvlloyd/status/1682097245921898498?t=n8c2Zbj4rvJbYECNv2UdmA&s=19 Why are these idiots like this? 
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Jul 21, 2023 13:00
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Rappaport posted:I'm just rules-lawyering for the fun of it, as Ghost Leviathan says we're thinking about this more than libertarians ever will, but would this run afoul of the NAP? Like, does this count as coercion in the first place for libertarian thought, and is coercion against the NAP? It's perfectly fine by them to sell children against their will since children are dependents, so that's definitely coercion towards the child to a normal human mind, but is the child just an object in relation to the NAP in all this? Whereas the car accident victim libertarian is, presumably, a participant in the NAP and thus counts as a "human being" while the child in the previous example does not, for the purposes of the NAP. The great thing is, it's not coercion, you're free to do whatever you choose, I'm not forcing you to do anything, all I'm doing is setting a market price on the blood. It's *my* blood after all, I can charge whatever price *I* choose for it, if I wanted to I could just not sell it at all! If the price happens to be your indentured servitude forever, well, you can go buy blood elsewhere I guess (note: you can not buy blood elsewhere).
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Jul 21, 2023 13:15
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Rappaport posted:(I assume rape is against the NAP), That rumbling in the distance is the sound of thousands of "well actually"s being hammered out across all of libertarian twitter.
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Jul 21, 2023 14:23
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Panfilo posted:I feel like the car accident dilemma applies here. Maybe I am naive, but I fail to see how a libertarian would consider this even slightly a problem. If you can't afford to live then you loving die, this is how the economy is supposed to work. The idea that people deserve any kind of safety net is disgusting socialism. That said, they would probably argue that in a properly unregulated market people would be lining up to donate blood at fair market values, and therefore this is the government's fault somehow. Clarste fucked around with this message at 14:33 on Jul 21, 2023 |
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Jul 21, 2023 14:29
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Panfilo posted:I propose we put the matter to a vote and let the will of the collective individuals decide the matter *in utter shock, the sudden realization giving way to outrage* “I live in a society?”
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Jul 21, 2023 14:30
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Clarste posted:Maybe I am naive, but I fail to see how a libertarian would consider this even slightly a problem. If you can't afford to live then you loving die, this is how the economy is supposed to work. The idea that people deserve any kind of safety net is disgusting socialism. That said, they would probably argue that in a properly unregulated market people would be lining up to donate blood at fair market values, and therefore this is the government's fault somehow. They don't seem to accept that people would die as a consequence to libertarian ideology. The idea that NO ONE would act, under Voluntaryism, is inconceivable to them.
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Jul 21, 2023 14:45
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I guess they are dumber than I thought. At least ruthless social darwinism would've made sense.
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Jul 21, 2023 14:48
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Panfilo posted:They don't seem to accept that people would die as a consequence to libertarian ideology. The idea that NO ONE would act, under Voluntaryism, is inconceivable to them. on that note, it bears repeating that praxeology is a bullshit pseudoscience which doesn't tell you anything about how or why people act that you won't learn from a good sociology or anthropology course
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Jul 21, 2023 15:02
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Does praxeology count even as pseudo, since it explicitly states it rejects any and all empirical evidence? At least the crystal woo-woo people try and pretend they do something, etc.Captain_Maclaine posted:That rumbling in the distance is the sound of thousands of "well actually"s being hammered out across all of libertarian twitter. Oh I realize the example breaks down in a society with slavery, slaves who are not participants in the NAP and rape away, Elliot won't punch you, but the semi-fictional universe of SVU seems to involve characters who'd ostensibly be part of the NAP. Although there are episodes with slavery too, but this is presented as a Bad Thing , so I guess libertarians would be insulted by Dick Wolf's media empire in general.hooman posted:The great thing is, it's not coercion, you're free to do whatever you choose, I'm not forcing you to do anything, all I'm doing is setting a market price on the blood. It's *my* blood after all, I can charge whatever price *I* choose for it, if I wanted to I could just not sell it at all! If the price happens to be your indentured servitude forever, well, you can go buy blood elsewhere I guess (note: you can not buy blood elsewhere). It's like the inverse of the lesson in this Donald Duck story (here the hour glass is a magic money-making thing, this was before Scrooge's first dime was invented), when you're desperate you're at the mercy of others and the sensible person would try and help those in dire need. But no, in the libertopia you charge people for the air they breathe because what are you gonna do, sue the air company? Air cleanliness is either never quantified, or it's a premium package to breathe stuff that isn't full of carcinogens. Woof. 
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Jul 21, 2023 15:16
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Captain_Maclaine posted:That rumbling in the distance is the sound of thousands of "well actually"s being hammered out across all of libertarian twitter. If I remember the DRO discussion correctly, rape is a crime: against the girl's father who took out insurance on her virginity. Same crime as having consensual sex with her: property damage.
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Jul 21, 2023 15:52
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hooman posted:The person who can save the libertarians life with blood says "I will give you blood if you choose to sign a contract with me that gives me total control over your for the rest of your natural life", the libertarian is thus contractually obliged to serve for the rest of their life. This is freedom according to libertarians. Whether it's freedom or slavery depends on which side of the transaction the libertarian is on.
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Jul 21, 2023 15:56
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