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Annabel Pee posted:Oof and the very next episode is the gay marriage one with Patty marrying a woman who turns out to be a man. What a string of horrible episodes. There is a kernel of a good idea in there—the character arc where Marge initially advocates for gay marriage (I still really like the bit of dialogue where she's arguing with Reverend Lovejoy, asks which book of the Bible forbids gay marriage, and he answers "Which book? The Bible!") but finds she isn't comfortable with her sister being a lesbian and has to overcome a prejudice she didn't realize she had is a good one, but the transphobia just completely ruins the whole drat episode. Unfortunately, no one in the mainstream gave a poo poo about trans people back then, the episode was considered progressive just for advocating for gay marriage. Contrast to "Homer's Phobia," which still holds up pretty well today!
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Jul 20, 2023 13:54
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| # ? May 27, 2024 19:18 |
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Homer's Phobia definitely benefits from having an openly gay man involved in the production. I've read before that Homer was originally supposed to use the f-word at some point, but John Waters stepped in and said that wouldn't fly, making the episode much more enjoyable still today.
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Jul 20, 2023 15:12
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Hedgehog Pie posted:Homer's Phobia definitely benefits from having an openly gay man involved in the production. I've read before that Homer was originally supposed to use the f-word at some point, but John Waters stepped in and said that wouldn't fly, making the episode much more enjoyable still today. There is a non-golden years episode where Homer gets kicked out of the house and goes to live in the gay district of town and it's just an episode-long series of Odd Couple jokes about fastidious gays vs. slovenly straights. They tried to get Harvey Fierstein back to voice Karl (Homer's secretary from the early episode where he gets a miracle hair growth cure and gets promoted) again for it and he read the script and was like "No this is trash I won't let you mess with the Karl character to do this." Random guest actors are more protective of Simpsons characters than Al Jean is.
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Jul 20, 2023 15:24
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I've been doing a relaunch and I had to tap out at the Star wars episode of season 10. Probably haven't seen the worst yet. There's been way too many "Homer jobs" episodes at this point.
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Jul 20, 2023 15:27
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Hedgehog Pie posted:Homer's Phobia definitely benefits from having an openly gay man involved in the production. I've read before that Homer was originally supposed to use the f-word at some point, but John Waters stepped in and said that wouldn't fly, making the episode much more enjoyable still today. For sure, could have gone either way but it may be one of the biggest eps saved by still having the A list writers around. I liked how they didn’t forget Smithers already existed, although I hope John’s sick mother was ok. PostNouveau posted:There is a non-golden years episode where Homer gets kicked out of the house and goes to live in the gay district of town and it's just an episode-long series of Odd Couple jokes about fastidious gays vs. slovenly straights. They tried to get Harvey Fierstein back to voice Karl (Homer's secretary from the early episode where he gets a miracle hair growth cure and gets promoted) again for it and he read the script and was like "No this is trash I won't let you mess with the Karl character to do this." Lol good for him. Recently rewatched Independence Day, totally flew over my head before how his character is obviously gay. Wonder if he tried to give the director of Mrs. Doubtfire notes.
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Jul 20, 2023 15:37
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I tapped out around seasons 15 or 16 and I can definitely say that it gets much worse than the Star Wars episode. It's not a good episode by any means, but I think it's helped out by Mark Hamill, who is obviously a very talented voice actor.
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Jul 20, 2023 15:38
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Hedgehog Pie posted:I tapped out around seasons 15 or 16 and I can definitely say that it gets much worse than the Star Wars episode. It's not a good episode by any means, but I think it's helped out by Mark Hamill, who is obviously a very talented voice actor. Yeah some parts like singing the bodyguard theme song were cringey even on the original airing but overall it’s fun. Agreed Hamill does great work, I like how he fakes a leg injury, has to pay George Lucas for lightsabers, and never finished Jedi school.
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Jul 20, 2023 15:41
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Out of curiosity, I looked up the Star Wars episode (Mayored to the Mob) to get an idea of its surrounding episodes and, man, I don't think I ever appreciated how much of a watershed moment season 10 was. Season 9 also had its lows, but there were some definite highs in there too. Meanwhile, season 10 has: - increased violent/gross-out humour (Lard of the Dance - I'll let the Treehouse of Horror instalment go as it's pretty much to be expected, and I remember IX being pretty good otherwise) - an overabundance of pointless celebrity appearances (When You Dish Upon a Star, Sunday, Cruddy Sunday) - crappy characterisation for Homer (Homer Simpson in Kidney Trouble, Make Room For Lisa) - implausible/outlandish plots (Viva Ned Flanders, Maximum Homerdrive, Monty Can't Buy Me Love) - silly gimmick/concept episodes (Simpsons Bible Stories, Mom and Pop Art, Thirty Minutes Over Tokyo) Some of these (like Sunday, Cruddy Sunday) fall into multiple categories, and the remaining half-normal episodes generally aren't good enough to balance things out.
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Jul 20, 2023 16:05
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Yeah. Solid analysis. I really wanted to make it to the death of Maud Sanders and Apu's kids. I know there were other episodes I enjoyed but it's not a good show and I'm not having fun anymore
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Jul 20, 2023 16:20
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Hedgehog Pie posted:I tapped out around seasons 15 or 16 and I can definitely say that it gets much worse than the Star Wars episode. It's not a good episode by any means, but I think it's helped out by Mark Hamill, who is obviously a very talented voice actor. Mercifully I can't remember anything about the actual plot, just the funny bits. So, every scene with Mark Hamill and the 2 second clip of "Give me that knife!" "No, it's mine!"
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Jul 20, 2023 16:47
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Nm pages old
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Jul 20, 2023 17:34
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Hedgehog Pie posted:- silly gimmick/concept episodes (Simpsons Bible Stories) I’ll bite: I always enjoyed this episode.
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Jul 20, 2023 21:38
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Halisnacks posted:I’ll bite: I always enjoyed this episode. I like the Spin-off Showcase episode (the Brady Bunch bit isn't so great), so I'm definitely not an arbiter of taste!
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Jul 21, 2023 02:06
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Harold Fjord posted:Yeah. Solid analysis. I really wanted to make it to the death of Maud Sanders and Apu's kids. I know there were other episodes I enjoyed but it's not a good show and I'm not having fun anymore Wait, did Apu's kids die? 
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Jul 21, 2023 02:14
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Hedgehog Pie posted:I like the Spin-off Showcase episode (the Brady Bunch bit isn't so great), so I'm definitely not an arbiter of taste! Zero need to explain, Wiggum PI is a series high point and I like how the other two segments commit to their meta viewpoints and expect the audience to keep up. Like how being trapped in a machine unable to die is a hellish existence or how shoving actors into a variety show looks cheap and thrown together.
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Jul 21, 2023 02:30
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Hyrax Attack! posted:Zero need to explain, Wiggum PI is a series high point and I like how the other two segments commit to their meta viewpoints and expect the audience to keep up. Like how being trapped in a machine unable to die is a hellish existence or how shoving actors into a variety show looks cheap and thrown together. What I liked is that you don't even need to be aware of Magnum PI or My Mother The Car to get the jokes. I was born in the UK in 1990 and I probably first saw the episode around 2000, I can't remember, but I still got that it's doing a bit on bad cop shows and sitcoms. Then again, I did have a miserable childhood. (laughter)
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Jul 21, 2023 02:34
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I'd happily rewatch most of those season 10 episodes. They're like your dumber kids, you're less proud of them but you still like them.
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Jul 21, 2023 05:15
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The Stargate episode is in season 17, and I laughed.
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Jul 21, 2023 05:16
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Hedgehog Pie posted:I like the Spin-off Showcase episode (the Brady Bunch bit isn't so great), so I'm definitely not an arbiter of taste! There was no Brady Bunch parody in that episode. Do you mean the variety show segment? Because the was intended to be a play on cheesy 70s variety shows like the Sonny and Cher show. Everyone had a variety show back then. Even Johnny Cash.
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Jul 21, 2023 05:21
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Hyrax Attack! posted:Zero need to explain, Wiggum PI is a series high point and I like how the other two segments commit to their meta viewpoints and expect the audience to keep up. Like how being trapped in a machine unable to die is a hellish existence or how shoving actors into a variety show looks cheap and thrown together. "Look, Big Daddy! It's regular daddy!"
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Jul 21, 2023 05:29
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New Yorp New Yorp posted:There was no Brady Bunch parody in that episode. Do you mean the variety show segment? Because the was intended to be a play on cheesy 70s variety shows like the Sonny and Cher show. Everyone had a variety show back then. Even Johnny Cash. I worded it poorly, but from what I've seen, it's explicitly supposed to be riffing on the Brady Bunch variety show. This is Wikipedia so lol (pinch of salt): quote:The Simpson Family Smile-Time Variety Hour is a parody of the 1960s and 1970s live variety shows. Mainly it is a parody of The Brady Bunch Hour, a short-lived spin-off of the 1970s sitcom The Brady Bunch. The replacement of Lisa in the third segment with another girl reflects the recasting of Jan Brady in the Brady Bunch Hour when Eve Plumb refused to participate.[21]
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Jul 21, 2023 05:30
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Hedgehog Pie posted:I worded it poorly, but from what I've seen, it's explicitly supposed to be riffing on the Brady Bunch variety show. This is Wikipedia so lol (pinch of salt): Oh yeah, I forgot about that one. There were so many.
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Jul 21, 2023 05:32
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New Yorp New Yorp posted:Oh yeah, I forgot about that one. There were so many. As someone born after they were all on the air and died, I think that's why I'm not so much into that skit. Bad cop shows and bad sitcoms have been on TV all my life, but variety shows seem distinctly 70s to me.
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Jul 21, 2023 05:40
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The CHIEF WIGGUM PI WILL RETURN... RIGHT NOW! joke was particularly funny to me as a child because most of the US imports I saw were on BBC, which doesn't have mid-show adverts. So you'd get these awkward pauses instead, which we can now all experience on Netflix or what have you.
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Jul 21, 2023 05:46
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I remember being really confused as a kid about why an episode of Teenage Mutant
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Jul 21, 2023 06:34
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I legit randomly chuckle thinking about The Simpsons clip show. HI! I'm Troy McClure!
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Jul 21, 2023 06:50
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I still love that it remembers the Armin Tanzerian plot point and works it in. I also have a vivid, probably insane mental image of a Kingdom Hearts game where Homer gets along strangely well with Sora, Donald and Goofy, and also goes back-to-back with Flanders fighting off an entire horde of Heartless in an unnecessarily badass battle scene. And then thinks Luke Skywalker is Mark Hamill and decks an entire platoon of Stormtroopers thinking they're rowdy cosplayers, much to Luke's bemusement.
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Jul 21, 2023 07:19
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Ghost Leviathan posted:I also have a vivid, probably insane mental image of a Kingdom Hearts game where Homer gets along strangely well with Sora, Donald and Goofy, and also goes back-to-back with Flanders fighting off an entire horde of Heartless in an unnecessarily badass battle scene. And then thinks Luke Skywalker is Mark Hamill and decks an entire platoon of Stormtroopers thinking they're rowdy cosplayers, much to Luke's bemusement. I legit hope Springfield is a world in the next game, because why not at this point?
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Jul 21, 2023 07:38
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The Awesomesaurus posted:I legit hope Springfield is a world in the next game, because why not at this point? Almost certainly going to be a very cursed Simpsons Sora. Lisa would probably still crush on him.
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Jul 21, 2023 08:38
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Ghost Leviathan posted:Almost certainly going to be a very cursed Simpsons Sora. Lisa would probably still crush on him. The Family Guys and the Futuramas went to Springfield without their designs changing, so I think it’s been canonically established that Springfield wouldn’t change their appearance the way other worlds do. 🤓
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Jul 21, 2023 09:02
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Hedgehog Pie posted:Homer's Phobia definitely benefits from having an openly gay man involved in the production. I've read before that Homer was originally supposed to use the f-word at some point, but John Waters stepped in and said that wouldn't fly, making the episode much more enjoyable still today. I definitely agree, I think Homer's Phobia is more of a hit than a miss. The stereotype stuff about the steel workers doesn't quite land as well in 2023 but I think John Waters did a great job and it was a smart and forward-thinking move to make him the hero at the end, and the callback to the Japanese Santa saving the day was nice, since it's sort of linked to his personality and profession in a positive way. One of the great things about Homer is that he can be painted as a moron and bigot in contrast to people who are just living their lives and are happy. They could probably write some great episodes about that using that same bad vs. good energy these days too, they're just too lazy to do it.
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Jul 21, 2023 09:18
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Homer's Phobia does make a lot of fun jabs at how fuzzy the line is between stereotypical heterosexual masculinity and homosexual stereotypes, and how Homer suddenly finds his homophobia is making it a struggle for him to display affection. Pretty outright touching on what would later be called toxic masculinity. Honestly some pretty great and almost unique social commentary because it's specifically about how arbitrary those stereotypes are, and how life is so much easier when you simply don't worry about them and accept people as they are.
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Jul 21, 2023 09:31
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That's the Sora, wielder of the keyblade and savior of Kingdom Hearts! When Xehanort brought Vetnus to the Nowhere Islands, they joined hearts to save Ventus's life, because the darkness in Ventus's heart had been extracted to create the dark χblade wielder, Vanitas. Hi Lisa!
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Jul 21, 2023 10:08
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Now I get it, the decades of zombie simpsons is actually a slow burn backstory of the imposter 𝚾ombodies
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Jul 21, 2023 10:20
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Yeah earlier seasons had their problems but Season 16 seems like a massive step back, I guess it was just a product of the edginess at that time, but it's full of gay jokes that feel hateful in a way earlier ones weren't. It's also full of stereotypes like in the episode where Selma goes to China to adopt, they have always had fun with stereotypes in the travelling episodes but usually there's a level of subversion, this one just feels straight up racist.
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Jul 21, 2023 11:32
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Ghost Leviathan posted:I still love that it remembers the Armin Tanzerian plot point and works it in. My name is Mr Snruxb...yes, that'll do
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Jul 21, 2023 11:33
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Junk posted:"Look, Big Daddy! It's regular daddy!" (No longer a cop Wiggum kicks a cop off fan boat) Police business!
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Jul 21, 2023 13:32
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PostNouveau posted:There is a non-golden years episode where Homer gets kicked out of the house and goes to live in the gay district of town and it's just an episode-long series of Odd Couple jokes about fastidious gays vs. slovenly straights. They tried to get Harvey Fierstein back to voice Karl (Homer's secretary from the early episode where he gets a miracle hair growth cure and gets promoted) again for it and he read the script and was like "No this is trash I won't let you mess with the Karl character to do this." 
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Jul 21, 2023 14:10
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I mostly remember that one implying Homer is bi.
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Jul 21, 2023 14:12
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The Simpsons Smile Time Hour in the Spinoff Showcase is tough, because it really just nails the sheer hackiness of the concept. Which means it's deliberately and hideously unfunny. It's a soulless cash-in through and through... released at the cusp of the Simpsons genuinely becoming a soulless cash-in. A lot of 8 and 9 are like that, when the writers thought the show was likely coming to a close and this was the last chance to make episodes you'd never make without the axe over your head. They turned the satire against themselves and started chopping down their own foundation and undermining our history with the characters because they thought they were on their way out. It lets them be a hell of a lot meaner as well, with Frank Grimes tearing into Homer and then dying horribly or Armin Tanzarian kicking our feet out from under us. I think if the show had actually ended around there, they'd be better regarded episodes, because audiences are more permissive of writers getting experimental, weird, and self-indulgent in their late period. There's a sense of "Well, they earned it," but instead of being an anarchic swan song before Fox called it off, it's just a herald of an increasingly lazy and mean-spirited kind of writing that would continue for more than two decades. But on that ground, I'll make the case: the lowest point of the Simpsons is the Season 14 episode, Strong Arms of the Ma. You know it as the one where Marge gets into bodybuilding and rapes Homer. Which... yeah. Case enough on its own. However, it's also an episode that's built on the audience's long history and relationship with Marge as a character. She's our mom: lame, not the often a driver of plots or delivering funny lines, but the real heart of the show. Episodes like Marge Be Not Proud and Bart the Mother are built on the fact that we get why Bart doesn't want to disappoint her. Strong Arms of the Ma builds on that relationship by showing Marge get mugged and treats it as not a joke at all when she goes back to the car in silence and breaks down and cries in front of the kids. The show still has a lot of weaker, Season 14 humor through it, but when Marge realizes she's overcome her fear, it's a genuinely good moment! A moment built on the fact that we really do, as an audience, have a long history with Marge and want her to be happy. Then the show turns that momentum into an incredibly unfunny third act about female bodybuilders, steroids, and capping it all off with a rape joke. What makes it the lowest point, for me, is that the show doesn't have the juice anymore to set me up like Strong Arms of the Ma could. Tell me about something appalling that happened in Season 25, and I don't doubt it's bad, but it's Season 25. I don't have expectations for that era of the Simpsons and I'm sure not watching it. I was still watching at Season 14, and the episode had a strong enough start to get my hopes up. And then they used it all to make a lovely rape joke. The show doesn't have the power to get lower than that, and we're all better off for it.
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Jul 21, 2023 15:19
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