(Thread IKs:
fatherboxx)
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To quote Wikipedia:quote:The report was released by the Fraunhofer Ernst Mach Institut and Wehrtechnische Dienststelle 91 on 19 April 2015. According to their 372-page report, the observed hit rate of the predominantly plastic weapon with the unsupported free-floating barrel drops down to a mere 7% at 100 meters when the temperature increases by 30 °C (86 °F) or more, whereas the Bundeswehr required a hit rate of 90% at that distance. If only Germany had received hundreds of thousands of good reliable assault rifles as inheritance from somewhere... 
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Jul 21, 2023 09:03
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They used the rifle for 25 loving years and suddenly discover that if you magdump a bunch of times a hot barrel doesn't shoot as straight anymore. So they just had to go and replace it by going with a small manufacturer controlled by the UAE. That should immediately raise some gigantic red flags. In the end, it turned out to be another idiotic VdL boondoggle. There's a reason H&K won those lawsuits, and it's not just because Haenel was violating patents and doing under the table dealings with the procurement office.
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Jul 21, 2023 09:28
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Good night sweet prince! https://twitter.com/GirkinGirkin/status/1682339409671200768?t=tByK2J0Tfs-ENuMIxT4O-Q&s=19
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Jul 21, 2023 11:41
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fatherboxx posted:Good night sweet prince! What happened here for those of us without twitter?
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Jul 21, 2023 11:42
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fatherboxx posted:Good night sweet prince! Doesn't show. What was it?
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Jul 21, 2023 11:43
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TescoBag posted:What happened here for those of us without twitter? Strelkov finally got arrested today by Russian authorities
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Jul 21, 2023 11:43
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fatherboxx posted:Strelkov finally got arrested today by Russian authorities Guess he stepped on the wrong set of toes.  edit Slava Ukraine 
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Jul 21, 2023 11:47
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https://twitter.com/spectatorindex/status/1682340996590473216 Don't know what to think of the Spectator Index but they report that he was also charged with "Extremism"
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Jul 21, 2023 11:48
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Kikas posted:https://twitter.com/spectatorindex/status/1682340996590473216 Article 282 that Girkin is reportedly charged withis a catch-all one for prosecuting hate speech and anti-government rhetoric
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Jul 21, 2023 11:56
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fatherboxx posted:Article 282 that Girkin is reportedly charged withis a catch-all one for prosecuting hate speech and anti-government rhetoric In his case can probably find actual hate speech. Wonder if they'll charge him for inciting anti-Ukrainian hatred for maximum Kafka.
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Jul 21, 2023 12:03
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fatherboxx posted:Article 282 that Girkin is reportedly charged withis a catch-all one for prosecuting hate speech and anti-government rhetoric
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Jul 21, 2023 12:19
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Huh. https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russia-extends-eligibility-military-call-up-by-least-five-years-2023-07-18/ Was this mentioned in the thread? Girkin is 51, they could send him back to the front if they demote him lol.
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Jul 21, 2023 12:39
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Kikas posted:Huh. They are not going to send a GRU asset with 30 years of classified information and an axe to grind with the state anywhere he could be captured.
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Jul 21, 2023 12:43
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Kikas posted:Huh.
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Jul 21, 2023 12:51
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In a different chronology where Girkin was arrested earlier, Wagner recruiters might have signed him up from prison and he'd participated in the coup attempt... oh well.
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Jul 21, 2023 13:51
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Dick Ripple posted:Latest War on the Rocks episode was released https://warontherocks.com/2023/07/ukraine-struggles-to-scale-offensive-combat-operations/ Without a more coherent western strategy for arming and training Ukrainian forces I think the conflict is going to freeze very soon unless there’s some hidden morale erosion on the Russian side that could cause a collapse. They seem to be doing a great job of defending and it’s unfortunate that the west didn’t step up all these training efforts from Feb 2022 because if they did there might’ve been a chance Ukraine could’ve pressed their advantage after the Kherson offensive. I think we’ve hit the limit of what Ukraine can do in the present conflict.
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Jul 21, 2023 14:01
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Kraftwerk posted:Without a more coherent western strategy for arming and training Ukrainian forces I think the conflict is going to freeze very soon unless there’s some hidden morale erosion on the Russian side that could cause a collapse. Its hard for them to demine because when they send out the equipment it gets blown up pronto by a missile or artillery. Doing it by hand while under fire is basically suicide too. Going after the Russian planes, TEL's, or artillery means getting more air power, or at least better GBAD to protect demining operations, ultimately and right now they can't do that. So they seem to still be focusing on 'preparing the ground' by blowing up Russian ammo and supply dumps. That does seem to be having some sort've effect given some of the desperate pleas that Russians in the trenches are putting out for ammo and supplies lately. That and apparently the Ukrainians are starting to achieve local artillery superiority in a few areas is a significant sign that its having a harsh effect on the Russians in the field as well. This hasn't caused a collapse yet but assuming that it won't or can't and that the war will freeze from here on out seems premature.
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Jul 21, 2023 14:24
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Nenonen posted:In a different chronology where Girkin was arrested earlier, Wagner recruiters might have signed him up from prison and he'd participated in the coup attempt... oh well. Prigozhin would have never trusted GRU asset. He'd end up locked up or worse.
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Jul 21, 2023 14:55
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alex314 posted:Prigozhin would have never trusted GRU asset. He'd end up locked up or worse. Wagner is a GRU project itself. It is not clear exactly how and to whom from GRU Strelkov has been connected (Strelkov was a wetwork guy a bit before Utkin so probably previous generation of leadership there) but him and Prigozhin absolutely hate each other.
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Jul 21, 2023 15:13
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PC LOAD LETTER posted:As far as I can tell its less of a training issue (although that is a issue for something like a minefield breach while under attack) and more of a lack of GBAD to defend and/or their own air force to attack the Russians with. To be fair, they said that probably many NATO states weren't able to do so as well. DTurtle fucked around with this message at 15:24 on Jul 21, 2023 |
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Jul 21, 2023 15:22
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When people get really into the subject of russia's postwar recovery time, you have to account for the issues that had russia in a prewar degenerative state. Its erosion into an economic and social wasteland predate the accelerative factors of getting bogged down into a disastrous war. It's not going to be so easy to compare a hypothetical russian postwar resurgence to how and where other countries did it, and it's especially difficult to compare to historical recoveries that existed in a timeframe before modern day tech age economies and things like the limited supply of processors that can even run modern products or production and development.
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Jul 21, 2023 15:47
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Antigravitas posted:They used the rifle for 25 loving years and suddenly discover that if you magdump a bunch of times a hot barrel doesn't shoot as straight anymore. So they just had to go and replace it by going with a small manufacturer controlled by the UAE. Yeah. The G36 bullshit was exactly that. It is an excellent rifle that has been and still is in service around the world with little real world complaints. The “issues” found with it would be found with nearly any service rifle put into those conditions. There is a reason why you are basically taught not to fire in full auto for an extended period of time. This is also why light machine guns were made as they have heavier and often replaceable barrels to deal with these issues. Rifles that have hard lives get replaced pretty quickly as well. SOF for example generally ruin their rifles during missions since they are being used at the extreme ends of their designs and are taught to use their equipment as effectively disposable. Seeing heavy barreled suppressed rifles flowing orange from long sub stained fire is common with those guys. That is the exception and not the norm though and nearly every normal soldier is taught to take care of their equipment in various ways.
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Jul 21, 2023 15:51
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DTurtle posted:I can't remember which Ukraine thread it was in, but a summary was posted that said very clearly that it very much is a training issue. More specifically it is the issue that the Ukrainian military is not capable of performing combined armed operations on a level larger than a company or so. It takes years and a ton of practice to master combined arms. It’s not something you can do when your entire country is under fire. If Ukraine had another decade of serious military reform efforts with a strong professional corps of officers who can transfer the knowledge with each generation then maybe they could’ve pulled it off. It’s probably why Russia invaded now instead of later. They knew they’d eventually get beaten if they let the modernization and liberalization of Ukraine continue. Not to mention the insult to Russian pride to see a Ukrainian state sort out its corruption issues, join the EU and then have a modern thriving society where laws matter and people feel confident in their futures. For a guy like Putin, that simply won’t do. Anyway this is why I think the conflict will freeze. You can’t astroturf an airforce out of nowhere while under fire. If you could it won’t be coordinated well enough to push an advantage so more losses and shoot downs will happen. Then the GBAD side of things doesn’t work because the US/NATO is optimized towards letting their air forces do all the heavy lifting while ground formations mop up. The MIC simply isn’t configured to produce GBAD in sufficient numbers and effectiveness. I’d go as far as argue the US military only keeps patriots around for missile defence, that’s it. The idea that any US soldier would have to fire a stinger missile or patriot in anger at an enemy aircraft is probably a humorous joke since they’d have air superiority long before those weapons even make it to the theatre. It’s still worth spooling up artillery production and GBAD because I think in peer conflict it won’t be so easy to establish air supremacy like it has been for the asymmetric wars we’ve fought since the 1990s I just don’t think any of that stuff is gonna be ready in time to make a difference for this counter offensive. Gotta hope that the damage Ukraine is inflicting now is going to cause a sudden break. But from my perspective I don’t see the offensive yielding any major liberations. There’s too many mines and defences plus air supporting picking off your armoured vehicles and mine clearing equipment and the solution to these issues requires years of training and equipment build up Ukraine doesn’t have.
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Jul 21, 2023 15:54
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DTurtle posted:I can't remember which Ukraine thread it was in, but a summary was posted that said very clearly that it very much is a training issue. And yes its something many countries wouldn't be able to do. Its also something I clearly mentioned in that very part of my post you quoted. That isn't their only option though. Weakening a opponent in the field by destroying their supply lines while also continuously doing probing attacks to keep pressure on them isn't some new and unheard of tactic. Its something that, arguably, they've already pulled off at least once so far in the war. That is what the 'preparing the ground' quote I made was referencing. Kraftwerk posted:Then the GBAD side of things doesn’t work because the US/NATO is optimized towards letting their air forces do all the heavy lifting while ground formations mop up. The MIC simply isn’t configured to produce GBAD in sufficient numbers and effectiveness. But you're ignoring the existing supply of old but still serviceable weapons that while not great can still be good enough for some circumstances. For instance apparently Ukraine is getting around 100 upgraded Hawks from Taiwan soon. Spain has plenty of Aspides to sell or give away too. Those are NOT at all new systems but they're still good enough to shoot down helicopters and drones and help keep fighters away from a area you want protected. Apparently systems like NASAMS can also use common missiles that were produced in large numbers over the years and stockpiled as well. PC LOAD LETTER fucked around with this message at 16:08 on Jul 21, 2023 |
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Jul 21, 2023 15:55
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PC LOAD LETTER posted:For instance apparently Ukraine is getting around 100 upgraded Hawks from Taiwan soon. Spain has plenty of Aspides to sell or give away too. Those are NOT at all new systems but they're still good enough to shoot down helicopters and drones and help keep fighters away from a area you want protected. People are quoting the taiwan defence minister saying otherwise https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/en/news/4947405
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Jul 21, 2023 16:19
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LordLeckie posted:People are quoting the taiwan defence minister saying otherwise This still leaves plenty of Aspides to use assuming they don't get any Hawks. And NASAMS to though.
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Jul 21, 2023 16:29
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NASAMS is particularly handy as it can fire Air-to-Air missiles like Sidewinders and AMRAAMs, which for reasons stated above (ie: emphasis on airforce rather than GBAD) there are greater stockpiles of compared to modern SAMs.
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Jul 21, 2023 16:40
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Kraftwerk posted:It takes years and a ton of practice to master combined arms. It’s not something you can do when your entire country is under fire... The solutions they've come up with for these issues is "Do your combined arms training in countries that aren't at war" and "Eventually get some F-16s maybe"
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Jul 21, 2023 16:52
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Gort posted:The solutions they've come up with for these issues is "Do your combined arms training in countries that aren't at war" and "Eventually get some F-16s maybe" That's the approach that has proven a failure at the start of the counter-offensive. I think Kofman makes a good point: Trying to change Ukraine's military culture in the middle of the war is doomed to fail; you can't retrain the upper echelon of officers to acquire skills that take years to develop during the war. The goal should be to support Ukraine in fighting the way they know how to fight, and not expect unrealistic outcomes. Ultimately (my take), that means ramping up training of Ukrainian troops, production of artillery ammo & barrels, GBAD, tanks and armored vehicles, and not expect any dramatic offensives until Western supporters can and do outproduce Russia in these. If that means a substantial period of no territorial progress, and possibly a limitation of war aims, so be it.
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Jul 21, 2023 17:45
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DTurtle posted:Germany is planning to permanently base a full brigade in Lithuania. In the future, there will be no need to mobilize from Germany before having boots on the ground there. Up until now, only a tiny staff was stationed there, with units scraped together and transferred for exercises in the Baltic states. Starting in 2026 or so (infrastructure needs to be built), roughly 4000 German soldiers (+ families) will be right on the frontline of any shenanigans in that area. Cool, are they actually going to have equipment or are they going to go with the old standby of pretending broomsticks are rifles and saying "BANG!"
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Jul 21, 2023 17:58
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Moon Slayer posted:Cool, are they actually going to have equipment or are they going to go with the old standby of pretending broomsticks are rifles and saying "BANG!" Don't be absurd. A broomstick might hurt someone if you tripped while running. They are given tactical pool noodles.
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Jul 21, 2023 18:07
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It might be naive but I hope that Strelkov was arrested in preparation for him being turned over to Ukraine or the Hague as part of a wider peace agreement. With the failure of the counter-offensive it makes sense for Ukraine to seek peace now.
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Jul 21, 2023 19:09
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It might be naive to hope but I hope that Strelkov was arrested as the beginning of denazification of Russia, which culminates in Putin ordering withdrawal from Ukraine and shooting himself.
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Jul 21, 2023 19:19
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Enjoy posted:It might be naive but I hope that Strelkov was arrested in preparation for him being turned over to Ukraine or the Hague as part of a wider peace agreement. With the failure of the counter-offensive it makes sense for Ukraine to seek peace now. Explain how Gravitas Shortfall fucked around with this message at 19:40 on Jul 21, 2023 |
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Jul 21, 2023 19:19
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There is no interest in Ukraine in letting Russia continue genociding occupied territories indefinitely, and handing over Girkin is one thing that is absolutely inconsistent with Putin's values; now prosecuting him in Russia for lèse majesté --- that's absolutely consisrent). Edit: LOL, Gubarev apparently arrested as well. OddObserver fucked around with this message at 19:27 on Jul 21, 2023 |
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Jul 21, 2023 19:21
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Enjoy posted:With the failure of the counter-offensive it makes sense for Ukraine to seek peace now. 1. By whose narrative is counter-offensive concluded — not stalled, coming up short, but instead at some hypothetical position of showing us that Ukraine cannot achieve its war goals? 2. Do those narratives heavily overlap with the people who frequently previously insisted that Ukraine's war goal of "don't let russia conquer the country" was also unachievable, and they should not be encouraged to fight back because it would just throw thousands of lives into pointless death and destruction? 3. Do those narratives heavily overlap with the people who frequently previously insisted before that that russia was not going to invade?
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Jul 21, 2023 19:27
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Kavros posted:1. By whose narrative is counter-offensive concluded — not stalled, coming up short, but instead at some hypothetical position of showing us that Ukraine cannot achieve its war goals? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-66121584 "As the casualties from Ukraine's counter-offensive mount, it is easy to see why - on a rare visit to this closely guarded section of the southern front - some soldiers and observers are starting to wonder if a breakthrough is possible, or whether Russia's defensive lines, built up and heavily-reinforced over the winter months, are simply too much of a barrier." (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jul 21, 2023 19:33
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Well then, better give it up since winter starts in August.
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Jul 21, 2023 19:39
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Enjoy posted:https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-66121584 quote:And yet, one month into this long-planned counter-attack, there are plenty of soldiers and experts who vehemently disagree, judging that the opening phase is going according to plan, and that the active frontline - which stretches in a rough arc for more than 1,000km (620 miles) from the Black Sea Coast up to Ukraine's north-eastern border with Russia - was never going to be breached with the same abrupt speed that Kyiv's forces achieved last year. Nice selective quotation. The overall tone of the article is positive. Ukraine's offensive is a long way from a failure at this point. They have not yet committed all of their available forces. It may stall out eventually, but not for a while yet.
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Jul 21, 2023 19:42
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Deteriorata posted:Nice selective quotation. The overall tone of the article is positive. Ukraine's offensive is a long way from a failure at this point. They have not yet committed all of their available forces. It may stall out eventually, but not for a while yet. I was asked "whose narrative" it was, as if this is defeatist propaganda circulated by Russia. When in fact it's the view of some troops on the ground.
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Jul 21, 2023 19:43
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