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Teriyaki Hairpiece posted:Personally, I'm still very paranoid about posting without spoiler text because back around 10 years ago the rules on that were pretty capriciously and severely enforced. People getting banned over not using spoiler text in situations that maybe didn't warrant that. it really hasn't been that way since Aatrek got exposed as a pedophile and was permabanned.
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Jul 19, 2023 09:05
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Even worse than using spoilers wrong, you weren't allowed to talk about Star Trek in a way he didn't like. No one was allowed to say that Voyager sucks because he liked it.
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Jul 19, 2023 09:15
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If someone spoiled the plot to this show, no one would be bothered
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Jul 19, 2023 13:21
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Cojawfee posted:Even worse than using spoilers wrong, you weren't allowed to talk about Star Trek in a way he didn't like. No one was allowed to say that Voyager sucks because he liked it. He must be a moderator for r/startrek now because I was banned just for saying that TNG's writing was better than Star Trek: Picards
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Jul 19, 2023 13:48
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Cojawfee posted:Even worse than using spoilers wrong, you weren't allowed to talk about Star Trek in a way he didn't like. No one was allowed to say that Voyager sucks because he liked it.
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Jul 19, 2023 14:25
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emanresu tnuocca posted:it really hasn't been that way since Aatrek got exposed as a pedophile and was permabanned. I know it's not rational but I still feel that way. Also:re: Foundation: yeah, what plot?? I think this show is mostly about technobabble conversations and cool sci-fi visuals, not a coherent story.
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Jul 19, 2023 15:20
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I enjoyed the first episode of the new season. It was clear midway through season o e this has very little to do with the books and would probably be better off as a stand alone story, but I feel this thread makes a good point about why that isn’t the case in the end. Even the fight scene was fine, because it made sense in the story and was poo poo well - this is in stark contrast to the pew pew scenes from last season which were pointless filler. I think they could highlight a bit better that more than 130 years have passed and we’ve had like 4 middle Cleons in between the XII and XVII and the galaxy has moved on - the exposition dialogue was weak on this. Pace is great and he’s really pulling the show.
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Jul 19, 2023 17:11
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Am I crazy or do I remember that it’s A Thing that they can make copies of consciousness and upload them to a new body in case one dies? If so, why don’t they just use a continuous memory thing so that the current emperors have all the memories of the previous emperors?
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Jul 19, 2023 17:14
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Boris Galerkin posted:Am I crazy or do I remember that it’s A Thing that they can make copies of consciousness and upload them to a new body in case one dies? Isn't that altered carbon?
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Jul 19, 2023 17:16
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glassyalabolas posted:Isn't that altered carbon? It is but don’t they have like a backup of all 3 empires in case 1 dies?
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Jul 19, 2023 17:18
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Boris Galerkin posted:Am I crazy or do I remember that it’s A Thing that they can make copies of consciousness and upload them to a new body in case one dies? lmao at ascribing any kind of continuity, consistency, or forethought to anything these writers have poo poo out
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Jul 19, 2023 17:22
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Rappaport posted:Mark Antony was a big character in the television series Rome, played by James Purefoy, who plays the rich immortal rear end in a top hat in Altered Carbon season 1. Marc Antony hangs dong in Rome, bringing us full circle. Rappaport posted:Whether or not he was writing to what he thought was his audience, or what he actually thought about it himself, is a matter for historians, but there you go. All of the big 3 have some Christian themes and influences in their writing; [...] Asimov's robot novels have R. Daneel Olivaw (or Demerzel in this show) learn a lesson from the freakin' Bible about forgiveness. Asimov being an atheist Jew makes it particularly interesting; here's an apropos quote from his Wikipedia page: "I tend to ignore religion in my own stories altogether, except when I absolutely have to have it. ... and, whenever I bring in a religious motif, that religion is bound to seem vaguely Christian because that is the only religion I know anything about, even though it is not mine. An unsympathetic reader might think that I am "burlesquing" Christianity, but I am not."
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Jul 19, 2023 17:52
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There's also a Christian plot point in the robot novels about Elijah Baley and his wife's names being Biblical and how that drives their behaviours a little bit. Asimov didn't exactly shy away from the topic, but I'm not a theologian so I can't comment on how silly his hot takes were. I like the robot novels, as an atheist, all the same.
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Jul 19, 2023 19:37
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Rappaport posted:There's also a Christian plot point in the robot novels about Elijah Baley and his wife's names being Biblical and how that drives their behaviours a little bit. Asimov didn't exactly shy away from the topic, but I'm not a theologian so I can't comment on how silly his hot takes were. I like the robot novels, as an atheist, all the same. He probably knew more about Christianity than the average Christian... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asimov%27s_Guide_to_the_Bible
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Jul 19, 2023 22:15
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 sure was an episode
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Jul 21, 2023 07:33
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You could say the foundation of this show is a little wonky.
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Jul 21, 2023 08:00
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At least the plot moved forward I guess.
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Jul 21, 2023 08:38
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Aertuun posted:The dialogue on this show sounds like it was written by someone who has never interacted with another human before. At least something remains authentically Asimov.
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Jul 21, 2023 08:44
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I watched the Cleon scenes again. Cleon asking his robot nanny to speak in normal voice is good. The show knows what we want. JUst shove the Seldon stuff in a closed room or make them stranded in the wood so their scenes don't eat into any budget.
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Jul 21, 2023 12:28
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"The worst part of the Foundation series is Hari Seldon" lol nice job show What a drat waste of Jared Harris
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Jul 21, 2023 12:42
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The Gail/Seldon/Hardin line is consistently the least interesting. I really liked the Foundation magicians, though! It brings the book to life at least a bit there. I also like the casting for the Trantor crew. Cleon plotline was a bit understated today. Hey, episode wasn’t bad! …except the useless Hardin action scene unblocking thrusters. We all know they’ll unblock it and fly away. Why waste time and resources to show this? It’s like they have a studio exec on set who keep submitting notes that boil down to “we need a shootout!”.
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Jul 21, 2023 12:42
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IMO one important thing about a good scifi TV show is that your scifi technology gimmick need to be consistent and easy to understand. There can be surprises but you still need a consistent tech mechanism across the story. The Cleon part of the show has a very easy to understand new tech mechanism. Everyone can get it. I think there are too many clones but you can explain it The remoted planet part....I just don't get what they are trying to do. What the characters are trying to do and what the show writers are trying to say. I just don't get those mess. Enh. edit, LOL at the warren guy. This guy, his face looked so familiar (Holt McCallany). It doesn't look like I have seen him in anything except Mindhunter. Maybe he just looks like Shatner from some angle. stephenthinkpad fucked around with this message at 15:15 on Jul 21, 2023 |
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Jul 21, 2023 14:02
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I cant stop laughing. Why tf is Mikael Persbrandt the Mule, jesus lol
Threadkiller Dog fucked around with this message at 17:29 on Jul 21, 2023 |
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Jul 21, 2023 17:18
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i was like “that can’t be him. oh, it is! okay! wow! what?”
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Jul 21, 2023 18:01
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Making the Mule a typical Power Rangers knockoff villain surely is a choice... Once again the writers completetly miss what made the Mule a good villain and instead we get a brutish mustache twirling guy? Like what? Is that the best you could do? Besides that his whole introduction (same for the Second Foundation) is a HUGE waste. THAT'S how you decide to introduce your audience to him? Without ANY context and just as some random bad dude? It also feels like a non-book reader would still be totally confused why the Second Foundation is a big deal and what exactly they are supposed to do but I don't even know where they are going with them except shoving Gael and Salvor into that storyline. I think I have never seen a show that has such a stark contrast in writing quality between two of its parts. Empire/Trantor continues to be good, even new characters like Domina constantly manage to be a lot better (the dialogue between her and Empire is genuinely great stuff) though I will say that the "Magicians" were the first new characters on the other side of the story that made at least a good first impression.
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Jul 21, 2023 19:18
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Someone pls explain how did Gale meet the Mule… did she travel in time via prime numbers? I didn’t get that scene and also was not paying attention.
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Jul 21, 2023 20:58
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Mokotow posted:Someone pls explain how did Gale meet the Mule… did she travel in time via prime numbers? I didn’t get that scene and also was not paying attention. telepathic projection of her consciousness into the future yes it’s as dumb as it sounds
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Jul 21, 2023 21:19
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stephenthinkpad posted:edit, LOL at the warren guy. This guy, his face looked so familiar (Holt McCallany). It doesn't look like I have seen him in anything except Mindhunter. Maybe he just looks like Shatner from some angle. I was like "wow did they de-age Martin Kove or something"
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Jul 21, 2023 21:54
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Legs Benedict posted:telepathic projection of her consciousness into the future Lmao
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Jul 22, 2023 01:08
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LinkesAuge posted:Making the Mule a typical Power Rangers knockoff villain surely is a choice... drat, you fell for it hard. Kudos to the writers, I thought it was a bit obvious for book readers what was going on. There is no way that is what The Mule looks like. He fits the description of how Magnifico describes The Mule in the books. It’s a projection. Obviously the writers can’t introduce a weird little dude who would immediately be clocked by everyone as The Mule, so they did something very smart which is show us him and name him right away, so the average viewer isn’t even wondering who The Mule could be and a reveal twist can still happen.
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Jul 22, 2023 02:10
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Thats a good point. After the shock settled i considered something similar, and it makes a lot of sense the way you put it. They needed to foreshadow it anyway.
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Jul 22, 2023 08:06
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Penitent posted:He must be a moderator for r/startrek now because I was banned just for saying that TNG's writing was better than Star Trek: Picards Boris Galerkin posted:Am I crazy or do I remember that it’s A Thing that they can make copies of consciousness and upload them to a new body in case one dies? Mokotow posted:Someone pls explain how did Gale meet the Mule… did she travel in time via prime numbers? I didn’t get that scene and also was not paying attention.
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Jul 22, 2023 12:27
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I really do only care about my three cleons now. this stinks.
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Jul 22, 2023 13:23
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I thought two thirds of that episode owned, and the stuff with the central trio was doing its best to pull them back to something workable after season one. I loved the whacky cowboys and aliens meets Wizard of Oz poo poo, kinda inspired. Got good vibes about where this season is going.
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Jul 22, 2023 16:26
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I really legitimately liked the Terminus stuff! It's a lot better now that Hardin is gone. The Magicians and their drama was good and fun. Their outrage at the cynicism of Foundation leadership was really good. The arguments about what they should be doing were great! They want to help people, they need to accrue power for that, but don't they need to keep their ultimate goal in mind while they do that, lest they end up accruing power only for its own sake? That board room argument was the best thing in this season so far. And then the vault melted a man for shock value and it was just the dumbest poo poo. The absolute dumbest poo poo in this show full of dumb poo poo. One of two things must be true: Either robo-Hari is fine just melting people which is gross and bad, or the vault is somehow already corrupted which completely undermines the weird and interesting premise of Terminus's whole scientific-religious hegemony thing. Like, whatever is actually going on is clearly retroactive justification for a gross cliche scene that just the most infuriating writer in the world clearly wanted to write where someone coded as "bad and dumb" a thick necked religious military guy keeps asserting and assuming more power. Oh look at this guy's hubris- a soldier is self aggrandizing himself before god and he can't imagine the idea that god doesn't find him as important as he finds himself... but... get this... he's not important! God just loving melts him! Isn't that so funny and cathartic? He really got his comeuppance! No. It's not funny. It's gross and dumb and I hate it and I can far too easily imagine the dumbass writer who thought it was clever or satisfying when it was the exact opposite of clever and satisfying. But if I'm not dwelling on that particular detail, the Terminus stuff is otherwise actually good this season which means we might have a 2/3rds good show rather than a 1/3rd good show!
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Jul 22, 2023 17:21
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y’all really need to read up on david goyer
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Jul 22, 2023 17:24
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Snowmanatee posted:drat, you fell for it hard. Kudos to the writers, I thought it was a bit obvious for book readers what was going on. There is no way that is what The Mule looks like. He fits the description of how Magnifico describes The Mule in the books. It’s a projection. Obviously the writers can’t introduce a weird little dude who would immediately be clocked by everyone as The Mule, so they did something very smart which is show us him and name him right away, so the average viewer isn’t even wondering who The Mule could be and a reveal twist can still happen. If that's really the intention then that might be a good "twist" down the line but it doesn't change the fact that the main villain is just "goofy" in the audiences mind. The problem here isn't that the villain is different from the actual Mule, it's that even this different/"fake" version of the Mule is simply lame. Besides that there was still no setup, no introduction to the Mule. We are TOLD who the Mule is and why he is "bad" but he is just suddenly dropped into the story as this big element. That's neither elegant nor engaging. I'm also in general not a friend of a "twist villain" that is hidden from the audience. I prefer the twist villain where the audience is aware of what is happening because that usually increases tension and opens the chance to actually explore the villain but if you are forced to hide your twist villain it often leads to an underdeveloped villain and the role of the "real" villain has to be filled by a lesser (and most of the time more boring) version. The books can get around this because they can still have a PoV of the Mule, describe his actions and thoughts etc. and also drop exposition regarding the Mule in a more elegant way that isn't as (easily) accessible to the TV medium. So I can only hope that they don't waste too much time in hiding the Mule from the audience.
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Jul 22, 2023 17:44
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LinkesAuge posted:
This version also doesn't look goofy. That's a weird interpretation. He's a generic tough guy, sure, but that's okay. The audience was shown a big scary violent guy with psychic powers killing everyone. That's fine? It's effective for what it is. Book readers know that there's a lot more going on with him- there's a reason he hates people, and he's somehow putting on a deceptive front. Even in the books we were introduced to the concept of the Mule as a warlord and eventually learned there was more nuance to it. I don't know why introducing him as a warlord in this show is a red flag or bad or anything. Of all the legitimate issues with this show, this doesn't really rank in my mind. They're doing it differently and that's fine. Or at least the narrative implications are fine. The psychic visions of the future are what's kind of silly. I also laughed at the shocking revelation at the end of the episode: "In 150 years... you will die!" Like, drat, that's a pretty god run. I'd be pretty happy if someone told me that.
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Jul 22, 2023 17:59
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Eh, didn't they both just spend a generation of life in cryosleep? Seems like being told you'll die in a century and a half is more meaningful when it's common to spend decades napping. Both characters looked about the same age tbh, so it could be relatively soon for them. Something that could happen (or almost happen) at the end of this season, maybe the next.
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Jul 22, 2023 18:12
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Eiba posted:Il... No that's the best part.
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Jul 22, 2023 18:25
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