|
I agree that post blanking is bad unless there's a PII issue or something like that. IKs probing people for acting like assholes is a job well done, though, and imo it's extremely bad form to post like that and then run off to complain when you get hit.
|
#
?
Jul 21, 2023 13:24
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 11, 2024 14:50 |
|
|
welcome posted:This is broader than GBS feedback but it's getting talked about here so: why does anyone give a crap about IKs editing posts, let alone call for their immediate death over it. its a sign of unfunny power tripping and because there is no way to recover edited posts it also makes moderating harder and can be abused to hide away lovely behavior like fritz had done for cinci
|
|
#
?
Jul 21, 2023 14:07
|
|
|
Editing people's posts for any other reason than to remove dangerous or inappropriate content is not okay at all. (and an explanation should be edited in and/or a record made of what was changed) This has been brought up a few times now and the IKs have been informed in the past that this is unacceptable behaviour. I'll discuss with the other mods about possibly writing up some guidelines for current and any new IKs just so we can make sure this doesn't happen again. I hate the idea of having to do it because IKs are supposed to be low stakes but given that post editing can be easily abused; I think it's necessary to set something up. What do you guys think?
|
|
#
?
Jul 21, 2023 14:34
|
|
|
Solefald posted:Editing people's posts for any other reason than to remove dangerous or inappropriate content is not okay at all. (and an explanation should be edited in and/or a record made of what was changed) This has been brought up a few times now and the IKs have been informed in the past that this is unacceptable behaviour. I'll discuss with the other mods about possibly writing up some guidelines for current and any new IKs just so we can make sure this doesn't happen again. I hate the idea of having to do it because IKs are supposed to be low stakes but given that post editing can be easily abused; I think it's necessary to set something up. make the red warning text even bigger imo
|
|
#
?
Jul 21, 2023 14:37
|
|
|
SpiritOfLenin posted:this came up recently in SAD, and the specific text of an edited post isn't saved i think. i do remember that at least jeff and astral can always check who specifically edited the post tho. might have been just admins in general, but that bit came up months ago so i can't remember the specifics from that time. Admins can see who last edited a post, which means we can see which mod or IK did an edit where most users just see "somebody edited this post", but the actual text of a pre-edit post is not saved. surc posted:Also except doxxing/other truly extreme poo poo it's always an extremely blatant abuse of power to go in and change the record of what somebody else said. Like nobody's getting mad at IKs for going in and de-inlining shock images or anything. Yeah, this is the thing. There are some cases where it's good for IKs to edit posts, like breaking an inline image that should be linked instead, or adding spoiler tags in a thread about a movie or whatever. They should only be fully removing the content of a post if it's really bad, like doxxing, and those cases are really rare. What Nix Panicus posted is very far from the level of needing to be removed, and removing it and then giving a sixer for the post is worse than that because it lets everybody fill in the gaps with something worse than what was actually there, which was apparently just a quote of the other thread IK inviting contributions from posters just like Nix Panicus. You don't have to get into the weeds of whatever politics argument was happening or relitigate sixers to know that blanking the post was a bad decision. 16-bit Butt-Head posted:its a sign of unfunny power tripping and because there is no way to recover edited posts it also makes moderating harder and can be abused to hide away lovely behavior like fritz had done for cinci Just to clarify here, the post Fritz edited had a thread title blaming cinci and post content that accused a different poster (not a mod) of doxxing with no evidence. Fritz left the title referencing cinci intact but removed the post content and replaced it with  . And that's a perfect example of why you don't edit posts like that, because now nobody remembers that the post and title were different and filling in the gaps based on what's left leads to the wrong answer.
|
|
#
?
Jul 21, 2023 14:41
|
|
|
I sympathize for iks with less experience because the rules about when to edit posts aren't made clear to everyone. Depending on how and when and by who you got ik'd maybe the seriousness of that rule was made clear to you or maybe not. I can think back to instances where even full mods abused this. Anyways, there are always valid reasons to edit posts, like unsafe or nws content, but the one reason I would never edit a post and assume common sense would kick in to stop it is just to punish someone I am personally angry at. Explain the rules better to iks or whatever but come on lol. Should be obvious.
|
|
#
?
Jul 21, 2023 14:55
|
|
|
I think post blanking isn't a big deal, and the concerns here are overblown. Are IKs, mods, admins customer service agents, or social media "experts?" If the former, sure, don't gently caress with the paying customer unless they break the TOS. If the latter, they would know best on what posts disrupt the flow of a thread. Imo it's a bit of both. If i pay 10 bucks for someone's red text, unless it breaks rules, don't you dare blank or remove what I paid for. If a post is dogshit that fucks a thread, blank it.
|
|
#
?
Jul 21, 2023 14:55
|
|
|
speng31b posted:I sympathize for iks with less experience because the rules about when to edit posts aren't made clear to everyone. Depending on how and when and by who you got ik'd maybe the seriousness of that rule was made clear to you or maybe not. I can think back to instances where even full mods abused this. Oh deffo, when I was made IK I wasn't told anything about rules surrounding post editing and only really knew about it when it blew up a couple of months ago over an IK making a silly edit. Deffo needs to be made more clear going forward.
|
|
#
?
Jul 21, 2023 14:59
|
|
|
Solefald posted:Oh deffo, when I was made IK I wasn't told anything about rules surrounding post editing and only really knew about it when it blew up a couple of months ago over an IK making a silly edit. Deffo needs to be made more clear going forward. Iirc when I first posted in a particular subforum, i found my posts disappearing. I DM'd a mod/IK about it, and they told me my posts were bad so they removed them. Yeah fair enough.
|
|
#
?
Jul 21, 2023 15:02
|
|
|
"my posts are so bad that they were removed for the health of the forum" is perhaps not making your side of the discussion sound more reasonable
|
|
#
?
Jul 21, 2023 15:04
|
|
|
Charles Bukowski posted:Iirc when I first posted in a particular subforum, i found my posts disappearing. I DM'd a mod/IK about it, and they told me my posts were bad so they removed them. Yeah fair enough.
|
|
#
?
Jul 21, 2023 15:06
|
|
|
it's not fair to anyone who isnt posting messed up stuff to have their words altered or wiped. im more than certain THIS USER WAS MADE TO gently caress OFF under a problem post is more than enough for most issues and im surprised to read some in this thread argue it doesnt matter probe me, kill me, release me, but leave the history
|
|
#
?
Jul 21, 2023 15:14
|
|
|
Solefald posted:Oh deffo, when I was made IK I wasn't told anything about rules surrounding post editing and only really knew about it when it blew up a couple of months ago over an IK making a silly edit. Deffo needs to be made more clear going forward. Yes, but commie was a mod before. They know it's not okay. E: this isn't even about the content, it's just blatant poo poo stirring for no reason except a power trip. The precedent has been set numerous times. iwentdoodie fucked around with this message at 15:17 on Jul 21, 2023 |
|
#
?
Jul 21, 2023 15:15
|
|
|
cumpantry posted:it's not fair to anyone who isnt posting messed up stuff to have their words altered or wiped. im more than certain THIS USER WAS MADE TO gently caress OFF under a problem post is more than enough for most issues and im surprised to read some in this thread argue it doesnt matter Pretty much this, just edit in a big disclaimer saying anyone quoting or talking about the post is gonna get hit by twice the probe the original post earned. The entire point the post in question got wiped was becsuse it was trying to stoke gbs/cspam rivalry to some extent (i didnt see it so dont know to what level) and the iks understandably didn't want that to blow up in the Ukraine thread again. So it was wiped with good intentions but in doing so the reason it was removed was also wiped.
|
|
#
?
Jul 21, 2023 15:18
|
|
|
At least they signed their name to it instead of the anonymouse somebody hosed arount with this message thing
|
|
#
?
Jul 21, 2023 15:19
|
|
|
I'm shocked a former toxic D&D mod did this (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
|
|
#
?
Jul 21, 2023 15:20
|
|
|
iwentdoodie posted:Not going to litigate any of the politics poo poo, but an IK blanking a post because they personally didn't like it should be, and historically has been, immediate removal of buttons. Especially when the IK in question is a former mod who definitely knows better. Going back but yes this is bad and we will be removing him for this
|
|
#
?
Jul 21, 2023 15:21
|
|
|
Fluffdaddy posted:Going back but yes this is bad and we will be removing him for this Legitimate thank you.
|
|
#
?
Jul 21, 2023 15:25
|
|
|
Fluffdaddy posted:Going back but yes this is bad and we will be removing him for this Good call, that was extremely lovely and I was gonna type a big effort post about it lol Also def don't do the buttons for every OP thing whoever suggested upthread since that's just likely to encourage a pursuit of superstardom but I think the ik shuffle on thread reboot that was also mentioned is a legitimately good idea Psycho Landlord fucked around with this message at 15:38 on Jul 21, 2023 |
|
#
?
Jul 21, 2023 15:33
|
|
|
Steadiman posted:At least they signed their name to it instead of the anonymouse somebody hosed arount with this message thing Pretty sure IKs and mods can't do the anonymous version - just admins.
|
|
#
?
Jul 21, 2023 15:39
|
|
|
Fluffdaddy posted:Going back but yes this is bad and we will be removing him for this  iwentdoodie posted:Yes, but commie was a mod before. They know it's not okay. Sorry I didn't mean to sound dismissive of people's concerns regarding what Commie did (although, I wasn't aware they'd been a Mod before! Not good.). I was just saying what I would like to go going forward to avoid any issues with future IKs as in my experience it had never been communicated properly. 
|
|
#
?
Jul 21, 2023 15:43
|
|
|
Complete_Cynic posted:Pretty sure IKs and mods can't do the anonymous version - just admins. All cases are anon from the poster standpoint, but admins can tell who edited it I believe. If you want to sign your work for the public, you have to remember to type "ik edit: (reason goes here)" into the post while editing it. And the standard practice for mods is to keep a copy of the pre edit post for records in the mod forum, but since IKs can't access that we just keep a screenshot or something usually (assuming someone bothered to tell us about that policy, which most IKs don't know about)
|
|
#
?
Jul 21, 2023 15:44
|
|
|
So who is going to replace commiegir in the ukraine thread? Its already been shown fairly consistently it does need a few IKs to keep coverage of it consistent to stop it getting shitted up.
|
|
#
?
Jul 21, 2023 15:48
|
|
|
I will be taking over with immediate effect.
|
|
#
?
Jul 21, 2023 15:52
|
|
|
Fluffdaddy posted:Going back but yes this is bad and we will be removing him for this A mod just indicated they were never told they can't do that. And none of the mods who commented said he needed to be removed. It seems pointlessly drastic to remove him over this. Also they didn't remove it "because they didn't like it" but presumably to avoid drama/derailing the thread etc. Whether that is right or wrong policy is a different matter but it wasn't some nefarious reason. Schweinhund fucked around with this message at 15:57 on Jul 21, 2023 |
|
#
?
Jul 21, 2023 15:52
|
|
|
i dont think you should have to be told to not abuse your power but i also dont post in that thread
|
|
#
?
Jul 21, 2023 15:57
|
|
|
Schweinhund posted:A mod just indicated they were never told they can't do that. And none of the mods who commented said he needed to be removed. It seems pointlessly drastic to remove him over this. No. I said I wasn't told when I first became an IK but was made aware once it first was brought up in SAD a couple of months ago, I'm pretty sure all IKs were told after that and AGAIN more recently as I'm sure there had been another concern about it. CommieGIR should have known what the policy was at the point of him making that edit.
|
|
#
?
Jul 21, 2023 15:57
|
|
|
Schweinhund posted:A mod just indicated they were never told they can't do that. And none of the mods who commented said he needed to be removed. It seems pointlessly drastic to remove him over this. Losing an Idiot Crown is not and never will be drastic
|
|
#
?
Jul 21, 2023 16:06
|
|
|
congratulations to Lovely Joe Stalin on their new role as thread IK
|
|
#
?
Jul 21, 2023 16:09
|
|
|
Lovely Joe Stalin posted:I will be taking over with immediate effect. I don't think Joe here has the best history with Ukraine. [This is not a forums war comment, but a history joke] Solefald posted:No. I said I wasn't told when I first became an IK but was made aware once it first was brought up in SAD a couple of months ago, I'm pretty sure all IKs were told after that and AGAIN more recently as I'm sure there had been another concern about it. CommieGIR should have known what the policy was at the point of him making that edit. It also came up in the last feedback thread when Smugworth edited a post, I think.
|
|
#
?
Jul 21, 2023 16:20
|
|
|
Schweinhund posted:A mod just indicated they were never told they can't do that. And none of the mods who commented said he needed to be removed. It seems pointlessly drastic to remove him over this. if you have to be told you shouldn't edit other peoples posts because you dont like them then you shouldn't have power over anyone or anything
|
|
#
?
Jul 21, 2023 16:25
|
|
|
Schweinhund posted:Also they didn't remove it "because they didn't like it" but presumably to avoid drama/derailing the thread etc. Even if the intentions were good that is not really an IK's job. Erasing the posting record to prevent future drama crimes is out of bounds, and if that isn't clear enough to people now we should do an announcement or something. As an IK or even mod the worst attitude you can have is that somehow you are personally accountable to control the behavior of posters. You need to just post normally and use probes or bans for bad posts. That's it.
|
|
#
?
Jul 21, 2023 16:26
|
|
|
Yeah at most add a little IK/mod note at the bottom of the offending post but outside of stuff like doxxing or something just leave it be (and even then make a note of that reason in the edit so there's no ambiguity on why it was edited). I feel this shouldn't be a difficult guideline to implement.
|
|
#
?
Jul 21, 2023 16:39
|
|
|
Fluffydaddy I'll PM you about suggestions for a replacement IK in the Ukraine thread. The other mods and forum-wide IKs do a good job in general with helping but it'd be nice to have another dedicated IK
|
|
#
?
Jul 21, 2023 16:40
|
|
|
Fluffdaddy posted:Going back but yes this is bad and we will be removing him for this Why are you removing them? They were a good IK for that thread and blanking the post wasn’t done for any malicious reason. Did they say they were going to keep blanking posts?
|
|
#
?
Jul 21, 2023 16:45
|
|
|
Tiny Timbs posted:Why are you removing them? They were a good IK for that thread and blanking the post wasn’t done for any malicious reason. Did they say they were going to keep blanking posts? Because you don't blank posts? This isn't hard to understand. If this was a mod they would be demodded and if this was an admin they'd be deadminned.
|
|
#
?
Jul 21, 2023 16:56
|
|
|
Ok
|
|
#
?
Jul 21, 2023 17:02
|
|
|
Endorph posted:they should keep doing this to this guy specifically What's your problem then?
|
|
#
?
Jul 21, 2023 17:04
|
|
|
cumpantry posted:i dont think you should have to be told to not abuse your power If a post was blanked to avoid a derail or drama, it wasn't abuse. Why the hyperbole? None of this is a big loving deal.
|
|
#
?
Jul 21, 2023 17:05
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 11, 2024 14:50 |
|
|
It's better to let posts stay as a historical record so long as it's not illegal. The post that got blanked was sort of targeting me but it was stupid, not illegal. Let the stupid post show.
|
|
#
?
Jul 21, 2023 17:12
|
|