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dogstile posted:Nah gently caress that healings overtuned as poo poo. I'm even necessarily opposed to nerfing healing, but doing that would require Blizzard to make interesting Support characters that do something other than hold LMB on their allies and that's clearly outside of their capabilities.
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Jul 21, 2023 15:00
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Jack Trades posted:I'm even necessarily opposed to nerfing healing, but doing that would require Blizzard to make interesting Support characters that do something other than hold LMB on their allies and that's clearly outside of their capabilities. Lucio? Zen? Brig? Bap? If healing is so OP, why do most of the super high ranked support mains and people who teach how to ladder well with supports preach off angling for damage as the most effective strat for supports? Like probably the best thing you can do with almost any support is take an off angle, distract 2-3 people on the enemy team at the beginning of a team fight, use whatever ability you have to duck into cover once they are distracted and focusing you, and then let your team roll the 4v2 you created then mop up the people you distracted?
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Jul 21, 2023 15:07
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That's kinda the same with all ladder climbing tbh. You mostly just want to create lopsided fights in favour of your team even if you personally aren't going to be doing much. I got to GM on DPS before I could even aim well by being a loving pest.
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Jul 21, 2023 15:08
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toadee posted:Lucio? Zen? Brig? Bap? Those were made when Overwatch had a development team that didn't only consist out of the interns and the janitor. Right now they can't even do bug testing for their simple updates, because even the QA part of the team has been sent over to Diablo 4 instead. The game is loving falling apart at the seams.
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Jul 21, 2023 15:09
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dogstile posted:That's kinda the same with all ladder climbing tbh. You mostly just want to create lopsided fights in favour of your team even if you personally aren't going to be doing much. Awkward had a video where he would off angle as Kiriko to distract people and then purposely throw all of his knives into a wall, and his team won every fight, just to point how how important the distraction is compared to hitting shots. Game was in Diamond as well.
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Jul 21, 2023 15:17
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They are trying to make it a good shooter but at the same time have all these weird concepts like tanks and healers. At the end of the day, they are trying to please too many types of people. They need to decide if it’s a shooter, a tf2 clone, or a moba in fps. They are trying to be all three and it just isn’t working. Like look at Lifeweaver, in other games with really deadly weapons getting a height advantage would be massive but with the ease and availability of healing, it’s a worthless ability.
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Jul 21, 2023 17:41
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I just want the 6v6 to come back and no set loving roles. Like maybe no one wants to play as a tank or everyone wants to be a tank, it shouldn't matter!
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Jul 21, 2023 20:30
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Cowslips Warren posted:I just want the 6v6 to come back and no set loving roles. Like maybe no one wants to play as a tank or everyone wants to be a tank, it shouldn't matter! that's what open queue is for
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Jul 21, 2023 20:48
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d0grent posted:that's what open queue is for Yeah them balancing for 5v5 one buff tank definitely didn't gently caress that mode.
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Jul 21, 2023 22:44
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dogstile posted:Nah gently caress that healings overtuned as poo poo. A good post. Its so unsatisfying to outshoot someone but OH WELL LOL I CAN TELEPORT/GO INVULN/DASH/SHIELD AND NEGATE EVERYTHING YOU JUST DID while the characters that tend to be able to do that have no such abilities. Its just not fun because what these abilities do is force the skill floor higher for the dps while considerably dropping it for the support and tank characters in a lot of situations. Thats why distracting the team as discussed works so well. You don't have to necessarily outshoot or position the enemy, you just have to survive long enough to get the favorable match up, which on a strategic level makes a lot of sense, but the floor required to do that is kind of trivialized when your E abilities are to just negate what the enemy team is doing. The balance in the game has always been wonky and I would love to redesign a lot of things, but hey, I'm not the developer. But seriously. SERIOUSLY. How did the Cassidy grenade get out of the first stage of playtesting. It goes over 40 meters away, latches on to enemies, and does as much damage as a headshot from close range to enemies. Are you loving kidding me? Just bring back the old flash bang, it was lame, but it was a helluva lot better than whatever the gently caress they are doing with him now.
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Jul 21, 2023 22:50
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Lord Packinham posted:They are trying to make it a good shooter but at the same time have all these weird concepts like tanks and healers. At the end of the day, they are trying to please too many types of people. they needed to decide this ~5 years ago
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Jul 21, 2023 23:17
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toadee posted:Lucio? Zen? Brig? Bap? but hitting tons of disgusting shots on the enemy from the front without someone off angling for you being gently caress all is unintuitive! i understand certain people find this fun, but this is why overwatch is going to be super dead and it's not just the lack of content pipeline.
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Jul 21, 2023 23:37
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dogstile posted:Yeah them balancing for 5v5 one buff tank definitely didn't gently caress that mode. I totally get the desire for 6v6 but like, that's entirely separate from whether they should enforce roles. Open queue and role queue are both valid imo
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Jul 22, 2023 05:36
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Mercy can't save a 200 health hero from a DPS or tank without damage falloff in the mix - OP was on a support hero that has an anti-heal and not using their anti-heal and then complaining about someone being healed
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Jul 22, 2023 05:46
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Hashy posted:Mercy can't save a 200 health hero from a DPS or tank without damage falloff in the mix - OP was on a support hero that has an anti-heal and not using their anti-heal and then complaining about someone being healed because unless you burst them down insanely fast, you have to be super super consistent in your aim to have a prayer in killing someone that's getting pocketed before they kill you or something else fucks up the opportunity. what is required from the player trying to kill someone getting healed is very disproportionate to what is required from the person healing.
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Jul 22, 2023 06:27
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IronicDongz posted:is said 200 health hero just standing around and doing nothing Are you saying that you should be able to win 1v2 without having to be much better than your opponents?
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Jul 22, 2023 06:31
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IronicDongz posted:is said 200 health hero just standing around and doing nothing if you find aiming someone very challenging sure. overwatch takes a base level of aim as a given and prioritizes other skills. they did this the moment they added healing and reinhardt shield. if you were rewarded for having an extreme level of aim then only aim-heavy heroes would be viable in the top level Hashy fucked around with this message at 06:55 on Jul 22, 2023 |
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Jul 22, 2023 06:45
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Jack Trades posted:Are you saying that you should be able to win 1v2 without having to be much better than your opponents?
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Jul 22, 2023 07:08
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IronicDongz posted:No, I'm saying that overwatch's gamefeel suffers terribly due to the amount of healing(and damage mitigation in general) that it has. I don't think I've ever played an FPS with healing as powerful as OW's and it makes the moment to moment feedback from shooting at guys feel way worse. You're constantly rolling the boulder uphill and if you falter for even a moment it goes crashing back down immediately. OW is (originally supposed to be) a first-person MOBA not an FPS, so of course you can't just solo two players at the same time, or the Tank, without being much better than them. But don't worry, considering the direction current OW team is taking, it won't be long until every character is just Soldier 74, so the people that just want to play CoD but with more fuckable characters will get what they want soon enough.
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Jul 22, 2023 07:15
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Jack Trades posted:so of course you can't just solo two players at the same time,
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Jul 22, 2023 07:28
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IronicDongz posted:Yeah. I know. Did you read the post you're responding to here? IronicDongz posted:because unless you burst them down insanely fast, you have to be super super consistent in your aim to have a prayer in killing someone that's getting pocketed I did?
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Jul 22, 2023 07:34
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the easiest way to balance the game is do what i do and whenever a widow/hanzo headshots me i block them
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Jul 22, 2023 07:40
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Jack Trades posted:I did? On a slightly different but still related note, one of the things OW should absolutely have copied from tf2 but didn't is the healing ramp, where healing is only fast after the healing target has spent some time not taking damage. It's a genius mechanic in general and in particular it's really good at incentivizing players to take cover and not expect to tank through damage with heals, which is a lesson that most lower rank OW players have struggled with through the game's entire lifespan.
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Jul 22, 2023 07:43
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Why not… kill the healer?
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Jul 22, 2023 07:53
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Opioid posted:Why not… kill the healer? Or even just drive the support away for a bit, I can't heal poo poo if I'm trying to defend myself
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Jul 22, 2023 08:15
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Opioid posted:Why not… kill the healer? Target prioritization? I think you need to reel in your expectations here. I click mans. Mans die. Making me think is a feelbad.
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Jul 22, 2023 08:17
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Opioid posted:Why not… kill the healer? Kind of hard to do when they're either bouncing around constantly (and start regenerating if you miss shots/reload) or they're halfway across the map and outside your effective range. Usually the first person to peel for a support is the other support, so unless you can clean them up with quick headshots they aren't dying. Half the roster is projectile heroes and trying to kill a Mercy that's boosting all over the place might as well be impossible with those. If Overwatch was a well designed game it wouldn't make hitscan necessary to kill specific characters.
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Jul 22, 2023 08:19
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They really should remove Supports' ability to move.
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Jul 22, 2023 08:24
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I wish my games were as coordinated as they describe.
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Jul 22, 2023 08:25
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i've been playing battlebit a bunch lately and you can not just solo 1v2, you can like 1v15 if you're clever about it and it feels really good in an fps to be able to do that. it's also interesting when the damage you do to people matters and forces them to play around it because they aren't instantly topped back off to full 3 seconds later
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Jul 22, 2023 09:33
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My most played character is Mercy with 200 something hours which I’m sure is nothing compared to others. Here is a list of things to try that skilled players do to easily kill me. - sombra hack and emptying a clip into my head - junk dropping a trap in my escape flight path - new robot tank dropping an anti-flight zone in my exit path - sojourn emptying a clip with rail followup on me - soldier emptying a clip with rocket on me - sym setting up turrets in my exit path - any tank catching me inside a room and body blocking the door - reaper warping behind and getting the jump on me while blocking any flight vectors then ghosting away Those are just a few. It ultimately boils down to ‘can you keep cursor on me while clicking the button’ with a bit of team play and map knowledge to boot. I don’t think any of those 3 things are foreign to a good map- and team-based shooter. All your comments are about how you as a solo player can’t get poo poo done vs a team. Maybe you should also be a team player?
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Jul 22, 2023 15:18
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Jack Trades posted:They really should remove Supports' ability to move. supports should just be little baby monkies on the tanks back that just hold lmb to heal
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Jul 22, 2023 15:59
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Don't leak the Baby Winston design document like that!
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Jul 22, 2023 17:04
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tyrelhill posted:supports should just be little baby monkies on the tanks back that just hold lmb to heal Have a Support sitting every player's shoulders so that nobody has to be frustrated anymore about not getting heals. Since they're sitting on player's shoulders they won't need any abilities other than healing. Having Supports gently caress up is also frustrating so just replace every Support with a reliable bot instead. Of course that would make healing too strong so make it so that you can only heal after a player hasn't taken damage for a while. And to encourage players to actually get healed, smear red jelly all over their screens when they're at low health so that they'll take cover.
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Jul 22, 2023 17:08
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tyrelhill posted:supports should just be little baby monkies on the tanks back that just hold lmb to heal you know not what you ask for 
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Jul 22, 2023 17:12
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Unironically, Abathur was my favorite hero to play in Heroes of the Storm and I would've been chuffed to play something like that in Overwatch, but that's never going to happen obviously.
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Jul 22, 2023 17:15
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Opioid posted:My most played character is Mercy with 200 something hours which I’m sure is nothing compared to others. Here is a list of things to try that skilled players do to easily kill me. Generally speaking, if a Mercy is dying it's because the Mercy hosed up. "Can you keep the cursor on me" is exactly the problem everyone has, her CD is insanely low and can be hard to predict when she doesn't even have to look in the direction she's boosting. She doesn't need to be looking in the direction she's healing either, so nobody should be getting behind her for a flank without her calling it out. "Just use teamwork" completely downplays the level of coordination necessary to make it happen. You have a window of two to three seconds to kill her before she's back behind cover or a teammate, her own passive regeneration kicking in, the other support probably topping her off. If you fail, your team has to back out because you've been getting shot while trying to kill Mercy and have nothing to show for it. Shooting the other players is technically suboptimal but the likelihood of actually killing someone is so much higher despite that, and worst case you're building ult charge to make a play happen.
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Jul 22, 2023 18:09
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Opioid posted:My most played character is Mercy with 200 something hours which I’m sure is nothing compared to others. Here is a list of things to try that skilled players do to easily kill me. This is dumb. It requires the enemy to "empty a clip" with close to 100% accuracy. Even 80% accuracy, WHICH IS PRETTY GOOD, isn't enough to kill a 200 hp supp hero. Mercy has some of the fastest move speed in the game, doesn't have to even look where she's going, and can change direction on a dime. Its not impossible to do so, everyone has got a mercy elim, but this is precisely what I and others are talking about. It requires enemies to play like two levels higher vs a mercy who just hits their dash every few seconds. The skill floor for a value-add mercy is just way way lower in many circumstances. In all your examples it requires the enemy to perform exceptionally or else you can just flit away and literally everything they did is almost useless except maybe the ult charge they gained on shooting you.
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Jul 23, 2023 06:05
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There isn't a hero that cant obliterate a mercy on command with 80% accuracy
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Jul 23, 2023 06:27
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A good mercy is a nightmare but you can still pressure them out. What annoys me is the generous timing on Rez, the amount of times I've hit a rezzing mercy with CC or even killed them, only for the Rez to still go off...
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Jul 23, 2023 08:29
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